Older vs Newer HAL Ships

[mcrcruiser]

What do you like or dislike in  the older /smaller vs the  newer / larger HAL  ships  ? 

 

 We sailed on the  smaller as well as the larger ship .We find that we prefer the newer  Pinnacle class because there are more Balcony & Handicap Balcony  cabins available  & that there is a separate dining room with Club Orange  . what we see good about the smaller ships is the number of  passengers  both on the ship & when embarking & disembarking  it is easier  &  getting around on the ship 

[REOVA]

We prefer smaller - Prinsendam was best. The newer ships have smaller cabins crammed to get more in, the lower prominade deck is better on smaller ships as you can walk side by side or visit people on loungers without being blocked by tenders and blind corners. Service is much better on smaller ships, crew more relaxed and happy and spend time getting to know passengers (many don't like the Pinnacle Class and are discouraged from spending too much time with guests as they are overworked, and it shows). We like Ocean bar band, the "old" World Stage with backing band, and smaller passenger experience and quiet nooks. Smaller ships can go to more (better/unique) ports. But HAL can make more money cramming 3 "entertainment" venues together and adding more bars. If Dutch Cafe was on a smaller ship, we wouldn't sail on Pinnacle Class (jk). 

[3rdGenCunarder]

I guess I'm middle of the road. I like the Vistas. I have from my first cruise on Zuiderdam. I've been on Westerdam and Oosterdam, too. There's something about the size and layout that appeals to me. I'm not sure what it is. Part of it is the thermal suite. That's my main indulgence on a cruise. I love Cunard's Vista, Queen Elizabeth, too.

 

I think of the Signature ships as stretched Vistas. The layouts are similar. I've been on Eurodam once and I liked it. Tamarind was a big plus, but the ship is a bit big for me. I had an aft cabin and it was a hike to the spa or the shorex desk. Public spaces seemed to be more crowded than on the Vistas. Perhaps enlarging the Vista design added more cabins than public space. Or maybe it was that there were a lot of sea days, so the pools and bars were busy.

 

The two smallest ships are nice, and I like the more traditional cruise entertainment. But they don't have a hydropool, and I miss that when I'm on them. I sail on them if the itinerary is worth it.

 

I don't like the Pinnacle class ships. There's a vibe about them that's different from other HAL ships. Maybe the crew is stretched thin, maybe there are too many strangers--on smaller ships I run into people I've met earlier on the cruise, but not so much on my two K'dam cruises. There isn't that happy/friendly feel of the smaller ships. The ship can ride VERY badly at the back, slamming down on the water, depending on the direction of wind and waves. I would never get an aft on a Pinnacle again. I've never had problems like that in all my Vista and Signature afts, even in rough weather. The spa design is stupid. You enter the thermal suite through the heated lounger room. That should be a quiet space, but instead it's a thoroughfare, with people talking as they walk through. And don't get me started on the deafening music walk and the way they've downgraded Lincoln Center to odd times. The World Stage is much too small for the number of passengers. I had to get a seat 30-45 minutes before show time if I wanted to be sure of seeing the show. I found the LED screens so bright that I got a headache watching the Step One shows. The one thing on the Pinnacle class that I liked and wished the other ships could do is the double-decker midship pool and the movies at night. I won't say never again, but a Pinnacle ship would not be my first choice.

[JeffElizabeth]

Agree. We were on the Konigsdam to Hawaii in October and our top level cabin wasn't nearly as nice as top level cabins on the Prinsendam or the Amsterdam.  They claimed to be suites but there wasn't even a curtin between the bed and sitting area.  Plus the desk was in the bedroom area so if was very cramped.

But, the big ships do have more energy at night, and more things to do. Plus more restaurants.  So what do you prefer? On our next cruise, we are in one of the smallest ships Holland has left. Going from Boston to Bergen to Boston. 

[Mosaic]

Pinnacle ships are very good because of the variety of venues.

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, Mosaic said:

Pinnacle ships are very good because of the variety of venues.

However ,lacking  varied  entertainment  on the World Stage  . The music walk could be improved  because the Rolling Rock   area gets pretty loud at times  .Both  Billboard & BB Kings are rather close  &  The  Rolling Rock bands  can be heard in these other venues 

 

HAL needs some main Quality Acts   for the World Stage whether it be a really good Comedians ,Singers or other Speciality entertainment  like a concert pianist  or violinist  ie .Those items would elevate   HAL's bookings across the fleet

[Overhead Fred]

Never met a BHB that I did not like and would sail on any of them if the itinerary was "right".

 

Since we usually take longer cruises and enjoy sea days, the Pinnacle ships are our preference followed by the Signatures (Tamarind!). But we also did a circle Hawaii cruise on a Vista (10 sea days) and loved it.

 

My one (and maybe only) complaint with the R class is the relatively high cost of veranda cabins since there are only two decks worth. And She Who Must Be Obeyed says - no veranda, no cruise!

Edited February 16, 2023 by Overhead Fred

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I agree with several here, the best ships were and still are the Vista Class ships with a slight nod to the Signature Class. In my opinion they ruined the staterooms including Suites with the Pinnacle Class, while they added more venues they cheapened the entertainment. 

[cruisemom42]

I like smaller ships. I realize, reading through this thread so far, that many of the options available on the larger ships are things that I never use or take advantage of. I have not used any of the spa facilities aboard a ship (any ship) in years, including things like the hydrotherapy pool or hot stone loungers or saunas. I can't think when is the last time I was in a pool or hot tub.

 

I never enter the casino. I don't walk the promenade. I don't shop or have mani-pedis or get my hair done. And I rarely purchase shorex unless I need to use up OBC.

 

For many years I ate in specialty restaurants only very rarely. Not until the last 5 years or so when MDR menus on virtually all lines became less tempting have I started to utilize them.

 

I generally sail in inside or OV cabins, so balconies (or the lack thereof) makes no difference to me. I have to admit I'm not very happy to learn that insides on Pinnacle class ships have only one backless stool for seating... 😡

 

HAL and other lines must love me as a customer. But honestly, I'd rather spend my money ashore -- that's where it's at for me. I would think nothing of spending $500 to $600 on a private guide for myself if it would allow me to go somewhere/see something/learn something that wasn't possible otherwise. Or spring for a good meal ashore vs. specialty dining on the ship.

 

I know some must think that I exaggerate, but it's true. And yet, I really enjoy cruising. Mainly for the places it can take me, but I also like being at sea and I like connecting with like-minded travelers. In my experience those connections happen on smaller ships, not large ones. 

 

The other thing I like is stereotypical cruise line entertainment. Not sure why -- maybe because I associate it with happy times and have spent so many years of my life vacationing on cruise ships. Maybe because I don't gamble and need something else to do. I don't have unrealistic expectations of quality, I just enjoy a show of some sort in the evening when I'm tired from a day exploring ashore and full after eating a nice dinner. The new music venues don't work so well for me. As a solo, it's not that much fun to just sit and watch musicians play. I'd rather watch a show or else converse with others where music is more of a background and not in the forefront.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cruise Suzy]

Vista class - like location of beds in Signature Suites - dislike small showers in Signature Suites - cannot use tubs in Verandahs due to physical problems

 

Signature class - like location of beds in Signature Suites - prefer aft location of NY Pizza - dislike small showers in Signature Suites - cannot use tubs in Verandahs due to physical problems

Pinnacle class - love the showers rather than tubs - like Grand Dutch Cafe, NY Deli & Pizza rather than just NY Pizza - prefer aft location of Tamarind - dislike very limited space between foot of bed and wall in Verandahs, location of beds in Vista & Signature Suites

 

We have decided what we dislike about the Pinnacle class outweighs what we love about them. So, for now, it's Signature Suites on Signature or Vista class ships.

[bennybear]

We have enjoyed all the sizes.   We loved our time on the Koningsdam although we were concerned about the smaller promenade.  But one trip on theRoyal princess confirmed to us that we still like HAL better.  At least one can walk all the way around.  

[YXU AC*SE]

I am bit biased to the PInnacles now -- so much so that my last five cruises have only been on them. Have a thing for TAs, timing generally works out well in my work cycle, so the ship becomes a destination unto itself. Variety of dining options on board -- Tamarind and Grand Dutch Cafe are excellent additions, plus some of the smarter things like pre-made grab and go stuff in the Lido are welcome additions.   Music Walk and the immersive World Stage experience (albeit under-programmed) are also nice adds.  Would find it very underwhelming now to go to a R-class ship -- even though I have cruised 109 days cumulatively on that class of ship as a not-yet-retired person.   

 

I do agree w/ @cruisemom42 -- for me the ship, regardless of size, is simply a means of conveyance, transporting me from interesting place to interesting place in the night -- whereupon we independently maximize our time on shore.  TAs for us represent an additional week to truly unplug / recharge -- get caught up on some good books and forget about the grind.      Scott.  

 

[westcoastsue]

3 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

I guess I'm middle of the road. I like the Vistas. I have from my first cruise on Zuiderdam. I've been on Westerdam and Oosterdam, too. There's something about the size and layout that appeals to me. I'm not sure what it is. Part of it is the thermal suite. That's my main indulgence on a cruise. I love Cunard's Vista, Queen Elizabeth, too.

 

I think of the Signature ships as stretched Vistas. The layouts are similar. I've been on Eurodam once and I liked it. Tamarind was a big plus, but the ship is a bit big for me. I had an aft cabin and it was a hike to the spa or the shorex desk. Public spaces seemed to be more crowded than on the Vistas. Perhaps enlarging the Vista design added more cabins than public space. Or maybe it was that there were a lot of sea days, so the pools and bars were busy.

 

The two smallest ships are nice, and I like the more traditional cruise entertainment. But they don't have a hydropool, and I miss that when I'm on them. I sail on them if the itinerary is worth it.

 

I don't like the Pinnacle class ships. There's a vibe about them that's different from other HAL ships. Maybe the crew is stretched thin, maybe there are too many strangers--on smaller ships I run into people I've met earlier on the cruise, but not so much on my two K'dam cruises. There isn't that happy/friendly feel of the smaller ships. The ship can ride VERY badly at the back, slamming down on the water, depending on the direction of wind and waves. I would never get an aft on a Pinnacle again. I've never had problems like that in all my Vista and Signature afts, even in rough weather. The spa design is stupid. You enter the thermal suite through the heated lounger room. That should be a quiet space, but instead it's a thoroughfare, with people talking as they walk through. And don't get me started on the deafening music walk and the way they've downgraded Lincoln Center to odd times. The World Stage is much too small for the number of passengers. I had to get a seat 30-45 minutes before show time if I wanted to be sure of seeing the show. I found the LED screens so bright that I got a headache watching the Step One shows. The one thing on the Pinnacle class that I liked and wished the other ships could do is the double-decker midship pool and the movies at night. I won't say never again, but a Pinnacle ship would not be my first choice.

I agree about the aft cabins on the Pinnacle class ships. The waves slapping against the hull kept us awake at night.

[RuthC]

My favorites always were, and are to this day, the smaller ships of the fleet: Prinsendam, S-class, and R-class. 
Except for the original cabins on the Prinsendam, the cabins are quite a bit larger than comparable categories on the newer, larger ships. 

On the smaller ships you could get to know people, as you tended to run into the same people again and again. 

Back when those 9 ships were in full operation the entertainment at night was varied, excellent, and ran in all venues until a late hour. There was fun to be found, no matter what you were looking for. Even the movie theatre was comfortable! 
Now, the entertainment is so similar in the various lounges, is far too loud, ends early, and even has nights off.
Rosario Strings---gone. Great dance music drawing you in to the Ocean Bar as you left the evening show---gone. A piano bar with a fun musician and crowd having a great time until 2:00 AM---gone. 
A different movie every night---gone. 

At least two ships still offer some of this. 

The larger ships, Vista and Signature class, still offer some of this, as well as some decent size cabins, but the Pinnacle ships? Way too large; you need to pack a snack before you head from one end of the ship to the other. Way too loud on Music Walk! The two lounges in the same area can't be open at the same time, because the sound from one drowns out the sound in another. The chamber music plays at odd hours to make space for BB King. 

[kazu]

Prinsendam was my favourite ship in the fleet.  She didn’t have the bells and whistles that the Pinnacle Class ships have but her cabins were unique and lovely.  And her Neptune Suites and Neptune Lounge were the nicest in the fleet.  NL had it’s own verandah and an ocean view.  That lovely pic that used to be in the HAL brochure with the stained glass?  That was the Prinsendam’s Neptune Lounge.

 

Food was a step up from the other ships - service was steps up from the other ships and there were little things done you don’t always experience - hors d’oeuvres at every sail a way, etc.  The same crew stayed on for years and knew their repeat passengers and their likes and dislikes.

 

their Pop up Sel de Mer was fantastic.  Actually, better than my Koningsdam Sel de Mer experience.  Prinsendam didn’t always follow Seattle rules - they knew their passengers and what they wanted.  Lots of two tops, etc.

 

Adagio and Rosario on the ship were wonderful and if you were lucky enough to be siting in the forward dining room (my preference) you could hear the music.

 

But I also enjoyed the S & R ships (Rotterdam especially) and the Vistas.

I’ve only sailed on one Pinnacle Class - and it was recent.  I don’t think I would sail one without Club Orange.  Dining room is loud and service was well, meh.  No flow and it seemed they didn’t know standard protocol.  At lunch the appetizer and entree was brought at the same time.  Dinner was worse.  Once and done and I ate in Club Orange which had the service i expected on HAL.

 

Love Dutch Cafe on the pinnacle class and the different restaurants - but, with over filing the ships and HIA, there is no flexibility to try any on board unless you book in advance on line.  So, for me it takes away some of the fun.

 

No question rooms are smaller on Pinnacle Class and what’s with the slippery bathroom floors and no safety?

 

Prinsendam wins hands down for me and I’m sorry she is gone.  When she left , HAL lost a lot of ports that the others can’t get to (or require a 3 hour trip by land for a few).  

 

Ironically, I had the pleasure of 2 waiters on the Oosterdam - one from the Zuiderdam and the other from the P’dam.  Dinner was a pleasure.  After dinner out came the little crumb thing to clean off the table - remember those?  His training on the P’dam was living one 👍 oh, and yes, he remembered me.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

Prinsendam was my favourite ship in the fleet.  

[edited for space]

Food was a step up from the other ships - service was steps up from the other ships and there were little things done you don’t always experience - hors d’oeuvres at every sail a way, etc.  The same crew stayed on for years and knew their repeat passengers and their likes and dislikes.

 

(bold is mine) That's what kept me going back to QE2. That feeling of being home. 

 

 

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

Ironically, I had the pleasure of 2 waiters on the Oosterdam - one from the Zuiderdam and the other from the P’dam.  Dinner was a pleasure.  After dinner out came the little crumb thing to clean off the table - remember those?  His training on the P’dam was living one 👍 oh, and yes, he remembered me.

 

 

I haven't seen the crumb thing in ages!!! 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by 3rdGenCunarder

[CNSJ]

Signatures provide all that Vista class has plus Tamarind.  I also prefer the layout of the Lido Market restaurant. These classes (to me)  get the nod because of the great promenade deck for walking.  That said, the Grand Dutch Cafe and expanded amidships pool area do make the Pinnacles appealing.

 

Whats next?

As for future builds, I think we will find that the next HAL build will be another Pinnacle or perhaps a Pinnacle plus based on the new Cunard Queen Anne.  She is 10% larger than Rotterdam VI, but would still be smaller than most of the Princess fleet and RC fleet.  Personally id prefer they stayed with the current Pinnacles. 

[kazu]

22 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I haven't seen the crumb thing in ages!!! 

 

 

It was one of the nice touches on the P’dam.  I looked around and only his tables got it.  I’m guessing they were allowed to keep the and he was putting it to use 🙂 

[REOVA]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

Prinsendam was my favourite ship in the fleet.  She didn’t have the bells and whistles that the Pinnacle Class ships have but her cabins were unique and lovely.  And her Neptune Suites and Neptune Lounge were the nicest in the fleet.  NL had it’s own verandah and an ocean view.  That lovely pic that used to be in the HAL brochure with the stained glass?  That was the Prinsendam’s Neptune Lounge.

 

 

Since she wasn't HAL built, but cherished by many passengers, we are surprised HAL didn't incorporate her features into the newer builds. They did try a dual entry bathroom with separated WC on Koningsdam but not on the other 2 Pinnacle ships. And the converted Neptune Suite from cabin did add nice natural lighting, although we didn't use the verandah since we already had one in our cabin. 😉

[mcrcruiser]

We would have liked to sail  on the Prisendam from all we have heard about  her  uniqueness 

[kazu]

16 minutes ago, REOVA said:

Since she wasn't HAL built, but cherished by many passengers, we are surprised HAL didn't incorporate her features into the newer builds. They did try a dual entry bathroom with separated WC on Koningsdam but not on the other 2 Pinnacle ships. And the converted Neptune Suite from cabin did add nice natural lighting, although we didn't use the verandah since we already had one in our cabin. 😉

 

I’m sorry but there is no way you can compare the current Pinnacle Class cabins to the Prinsendam.  the cabins are all cookie cutter - not different like on that ship and the Neptune Suites  have no comparison to the P’dam.  JMO.  they couldn’t incorporate P’dam into the konignsdam - walk in closets?  In lower cabins?  That’s a joke on the Pinnacle Class.  They are smaller overall than on the Elegant Explorer.

[REOVA]

8 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I’m sorry but there is no way you can compare the current Pinnacle Class cabins to the Prinsendam.  the cabins are all cookie cutter - not different like on that ship and the Neptune Suites  have no comparison to the P’dam.  JMO.  they couldn’t incorporate P’dam into the konignsdam - walk in closets?  In lower cabins?  That’s a joke on the Pinnacle Class.  They are smaller overall than on the Elegant Explorer.

Yes the K'Dam has the dual access bathrooms like the Prinsendam did, which were great if you have guests or 3 travelers. That is what I was referencing.

 

And yes the room layout is not like Prinsendam (with the curtain) and we don't know lnow why they have the TV on the wall directly behind the sofa. 

[paulco]

Just FYI. They still crumb the table on Royal. Love it.

[montythecat]

We tried HAL last year, attracted by the music offerings which seemed

to be a lot more adventurous than those offered on Celebrity which used

to be our first choice cruise line. Not any more !  Oosterdam was very

enjoyable but NS was, for us, truly exceptional. It is now my

favourite ship (27 cruises). Subject to appropriate itineraries we will

look for Pinnacle Class ships above all others. The Dutch Cafe is also

another very good reason for this choice.

[Dismomx5]

21 hours ago, RuthC said:

My favorites always were, and are to this day, the smaller ships of the fleet: Prinsendam, S-class, and R-class. 
Except for the original cabins on the Prinsendam, the cabins are quite a bit larger than comparable categories on the newer, larger ships. 

On the smaller ships you could get to know people, as you tended to run into the same people again and again. 

Back when those 9 ships were in full operation the entertainment at night was varied, excellent, and ran in all venues until a late hour. There was fun to be found, no matter what you were looking for. Even the movie theatre was comfortable! 
Now, the entertainment is so similar in the various lounges, is far too loud, ends early, and even has nights off.
Rosario Strings---gone. Great dance music drawing you in to the Ocean Bar as you left the evening show---gone. A piano bar with a fun musician and crowd having a great time until 2:00 AM---gone. 
A different movie every night---gone. 

At least two ships still offer some of this. 

The larger ships, Vista and Signature class, still offer some of this, as well as some decent size cabins, but the Pinnacle ships? Way too large; you need to pack a snack before you head from one end of the ship to the other. Way too loud on Music Walk! The two lounges in the same area can't be open at the same time, because the sound from one drowns out the sound in another. The chamber music plays at odd hours to make space for BB King. 

Ruth, I think you've done inside on the various classes. I've done inside on the Koningsdam, but that was a few years ago. We're inside on the Zandaam in August. How are those inside rooms on the Zaandam? It will be strange to be on the smaller ship, since we've only done Zuiderdam and the three Pinnacle ships. We'll actually have a trial run on the Volendam Vista suite in April. Can't wait to compare the ships!

19 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

(bold is mine) That's what kept me going back to QE2. That feeling of being home. 

 

 

 

I haven't seen the crumb thing in ages!!! 

 

We had the crumb thing brought out on the Rotterdam MDR at breakfast or lunch in January. I was pleasantly surprised. 🙂