Do you think Silversea will ever phase out Butlers?

[UKCruiseJeff]

On 4/3/2023 at 3:21 AM, Sunny429 said:

A few years ago, someone from the UK stated on one of these forums that; Americans like the butters because it makes them feel aristocratic, or something to that effect I cannot speak for all Americans, but I feel they are superfluous. Only once has a butler gone above and beyond, anticipating our needs. (We we’re cruising through the Gulf of Mexico on our way back to Ft. Lauderdale and the wave action was a little rough. Without us asking, he rang our doorbell, arriving with a lovely pot of tea. Just what I needed.) Other than that, I find I can make dinner reservations quicker and easier than asking the butler and what really gets to me is it’s one more person coming in and out of our room. If it weren’t for the other wonderful attributes Silversea offers, I’d choose another line.What do you all think? 

 

 

Hi,

 

I read your thread with interest because I might have parciated in those exchanges some years back, I really agree with your views and for what it's worth I'd add my two cents to what I see as the context of the Butler thing both then and in the light of what I see as future converging trends.

 

The butler thing from recall wasn't SS being pioneering but followed another line somewhere removing stewards and dressing up stewards and calling them butlers. From flakey memory this coincided with Downton also hitting the US psyche and I think it caught a zeitgeist with people thinking that they were going to experience something that was obviously never going to happen. Butlers on cruise lines and in hotels – except the very very few where there is a single butler allocated to a single eye-waveringly expensive suite.

 

I didn't like it also because I thought it simply a marketing deception which I fel was disrespectful to intelligence but I recognised it locked into an opportunity that was never really what was genuinely deliverable on the pack.

 

At it's simplest a butler in the UK historical context version was always a male in a sole household that would orchestrate the male head of families life. He'd do all the stuff like lay out clothes make arrangements and manage the staff that did al the doings. The lady of the house would have a maid. A butler would never have several dozen bosses. Everything that would be asked of him would always be within his control. He'd not be in competition with dozens of other butlers to try and simply get their master in 801 on to the table of his choice in the overbooked restaurant of their choice. So butlers on cruises are not butlers. They are simply dressing up and pretending to be butlers.

 

At the same time I also felt a potential loss of something my wife and I had previously really enjoyed. I think it was the lower level of barrier and informality. I felt that people dressing up as pretend butlers would take away some of the great experiences we'd have with some of the great stewards and even more stewardesses we'd had. It might be simply that they didn't dress up but we had several really individual stewardesses who were on a life travel experience and we'd lead them astray with time with us with them telling us their stories and drinking with us when they were on quieter moments of their duty. Calling us by our first names and bantering with us and teasing us. We really appreciated them and them us. I think we felt that Butlers would remove that whilst adding not much.

 

I also see a societal change and it's been there for a while. Highly successful people are increasingly less stiff and formal and those that are tend to be more formal seem to me to be more more aspirational. Over generalised but it is what I see. So perhaps the deception of someone called a butler but who never was or is will start to fade and they might be replaced by younger informal highly intelligent and fun-loving but resourceful and engaging people who befriend rather than serve.  I think that if there is a possible welcome trend it isn't to do with what they are called ... they should continue to do all the stuff you ask but there should be less suites for each of them and  I think it would be nice if they morphed into more individualistic personalities that people read and engage more informally.

 

Once again I know I make not much sense to others but I hope you get the gist.

[Gourmet Gal]

Interesting take and thanks for reminding us of the traditional role of butlers.  So those highly regimented, formal times are mostly over in society today and perhaps what used to be a butler is now a personal assistant in more affluent households.  Regarding cruising, aside from a marketing angle, the intent seems to be an elevated service experience for passengers. This topic could be a little less contentious if SS dropped the pretension of calling a glorified steward a butler and considered a different title. I’ll take a stab at an alternative: Does Suite Assistant sound too similar to Suite Attendant?  How about Suite Liaison?  

[erikzen]

I'll play Devil's Advocate and point out that Silversea claims they send their "butlers" to butler training a The School for Butlers and Hospitality. So it seems not only are we getting duped into thinking they are butlers but the "glorified cabin stewards" must be getting duped, too, if they think they are going for butler training, when in fact it is steward training. Or perhaps they are all in on the marketing plan.

https://schoolforbutlers.com/the-school/

https://schoolforbutlers.com/blog/teaming-up-with-the-number-one-cruise-line/

[UKCruiseJeff]

1 hour ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Interesting take and thanks for reminding us of the traditional role of butlers.  So those highly regimented, formal times are mostly over in society today and perhaps what used to be a butler is now a personal assistant in more affluent households.  Regarding cruising, aside from a marketing angle, the intent seems to be an elevated service experience for passengers. This topic could be a little less contentious if SS dropped the pretension of calling a glorified steward a butler and considered a different title. I’ll take a stab at an alternative: Does Suite Assistant sound too similar to Suite Attendant?  How about Suite Liaison?  

 

Concierge?

[drron29]

I really couldn't care less what the "butlers" are called. We relate to them just the same as UK Cruise Jeff said he related to the stewards/stewardesses in the past. And we like that.

[Will Work for Tiramisu]

Whatever you call them, we have found every one to be eager to please and helpful, although me and the missus are pretty low maintenance.  As long as the cooler has been stocked, I'm good. I think of them largely as a concierge that comes to your room, similar to a concierge function at a good hotel - there to help with whatever you're trying to do.  (Well, at least legally!)  We've enjoyed taking time to talk with them and see where they are from and hear their stories.  But then, when traveling, we are always aware that to some degree we are ambassadors for our country (US), and believe me, after certain recent occupants of the Whitehouse, the US can use all the good will it can get!  

[labrasett]

Does it really matter what the role is called?   I dont think people from US are so shallow as to be impressed by the aristocratic title of Butler.   Whats in the name?    Frankly very little, on the cruise the butler is your friend and assistant offering to facilitate whatever you wish for.   They are almost exclusively lovely people who would be missed by many longer term SS passengers.

[Gourmet Gal]

1 hour ago, labrasett said:

Does it really matter what the role is called?   I dont think people from US are so shallow as to be impressed by the aristocratic title of Butler.   Whats in the name?    Frankly very little, on the cruise the butler is your friend and assistant offering to facilitate whatever you wish for.   They are almost exclusively lovely people who would be missed by many longer term SS passengers.

I think the point is some new to SS cruisers are intimidated by the “Butler” moniker.

[Dolcevita Diva]

6 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

I think the point is some new to SS cruisers are intimidated by the “Butler” moniker.

And hopefully they will be delighted once they are finally onboard

[Rothko1]

1 hour ago, labrasett said:

Does it really matter what the role is called?   I dont think people from US are so shallow as to be impressed by the aristocratic title of Butler.   Whats in the name?    Frankly very little, on the cruise the butler is your friend and assistant offering to facilitate whatever you wish for.   They are almost exclusively lovely people who would be missed by many longer term SS passengers.

 

I call our butler a Plenipotentiary instead.

[phillipahain]

Well our butler on Muse right now is fantastic ....he is so incredibly helpful always above and beyond what one might expect 

[labrasett]

15 hours ago, Gourmet Gal said:

I think the point is some new to SS cruisers are intimidated by the “Butler” moniker.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who can afford to travel on SS is "initimidated" by references to a butler.   Most passengers do not come much more humble than we were when we first started travelling on SS and while we were a little tremulous about the whole experience the word "Butler" was not a cause of any consternation our main concern was about whether we would "fit in".   All nonsense of course since 99.9% of SS passengers are lovely people.

[labrasett]

15 hours ago, Rothko1 said:

 

I call our butler a Plenipotentiary instead.

Having looked up the full definition of the word plenipotentiary now there is an individual to be held in high esteem and awe (such as we generally do our butlers)

[labrasett]

On 4/6/2023 at 6:44 PM, erikzen said:

I'll play Devil's Advocate and point out that Silversea claims they send their "butlers" to butler training a The School for Butlers and Hospitality. So it seems not only are we getting duped into thinking they are butlers but the "glorified cabin stewards" must be getting duped, too, if they think they are going for butler training, when in fact it is steward training. Or perhaps they are all in on the marketing plan.

https://schoolforbutlers.com/the-school/

https://schoolforbutlers.com/blog/teaming-up-with-the-number-one-cruise-line/

Thank you for providing evidence that the butlers have received at least rudimentary (4 weeks) butler training.   They do very well on it.

[Tothesunset]

I wonder how difficult it is to learn to butle? 

[Gourmet Gal]

It could be difficult for some people depending on their background or just simple job training for others.  What really matters to me in the service arena is if the person takes pride in their work.  If they do it’s a pleasure to interact with them and always brightens my day.

[canderson]

24 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

I wonder how difficult it is to learn to butle? 

I suspect it's a lot like NFL quarterbacks.  All of them have been trained, but not all of them have an instinctual feel for the game.  Even fewer can quickly see the whole field at once and intuitively sense where the receivers are and where they're going to be open.  A good butler is intuitive in that sense, and some of them 'have it' and some of them don't.

 

I don't think the best butlers are necessarily the best trained, but rather, those who can read their guests and anticipate those things that will improve their cruise experience.  They're the ones that have provided our most memorable cruises.  Again, a shout out to our best butler ever, Anu, wherever you are.

[Stumblefoot]

40 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

I wonder how difficult it is to learn to butle? 

Harder than the 2nd hardest job in the world; 

 

[Rothko1]

I think we can all agree that the butlers make the Silversea experience very special, at least for those of us who don't have a butler at home.

 

Would the experience aboard still be good without butlers?  Of course.  For some people, the difference would be negligible.  For others, it might be somewhat more significant. 

[A Tucson Guy]

Don't forget that some folks on this forum have an upstairs and a downstairs butler! Two for one.

[ClefsDor]

I'm not sure if all butlers on Silversea have been to "butler school", especially with staff shortages since the pandemic. On our last SS cruise our butler was new to SS and had never been a butler before. His previous role was room service delivery at a hotel in Dubai. To say he was out of his depth and had no training would be an understatement. A couple of days into our cruise we asked him to cancel a La Dame reservation and he asked what that was!! Unfortunately the poor fellow was very stressed and uncomfortable and within a few days we were told he was leaving to go back home due to a family issue. We spoke to quite a few passengers on that cruise who also seemed to have new and untrained butlers.

[tv24]

So, now we have one experience with a butler on Silversea.  She did a good job, but honestly nothing special.  It seemed an elevated title for a stateroom stewardess.  She made  a grand presentation of our en suite breakfast each morning, but all she did was put the food on the table.  Then she poured our coffee, which we could have done ourselves.  Some fol de rol in the morning, a little too silly for us former working class blokes.  I just don't understand the title, but I won't complain.

[ronrick1943]

we cruised Silversea Spirit a few months ago, had a few problems but the Butler was great.  He even resolved some of the problems.  But service, just great couldn’t have asked for more.

[bitob]

I don’t want to cruise without a butler. One of the reasons seabourn is my last choice for a luxury cruise is there are no butlers. Seabourn regulars told me no problem. Stateroom attendants do the same thing.  Not even close 

[texanaust]

40 minutes ago, bitob said:

I don’t want to cruise without a butler. One of the reasons seabourn is my last choice for a luxury cruise is there are no butlers. Seabourn regulars told me no problem. Stateroom attendants do the same thing.  Not even close 

 

And yet I find the stateroom attendants on Seabourn far superior to our butler on Silversea.  Our butler on the Moon was totally useless and when we received the mid-cruise survey, he asked for us to give him a five star review.  When we didn't fill it out within the prescribed five minutes, he then hounded us for several days asking if we had given him a good review...finally I had to waste my vacation time to meet with the HD and give him our butler review in person.  

 

This butler was new and certainly did not have any formal 'training'.