Big news tomorrow (apparently!)

[PROCRUISE]

COCOCAY = YAWN!

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

No one can explain to me why they’re taking a brand new ship and throwing it to the Caribbean.

They moved it because they think they can make more $$$ by moving it - even taking into account any "apology" OBC they have to give out.

[kruzerci]

2 hours ago, zitsky said:

It’s a beautiful ship.  No one can explain to me why they’re taking a brand new ship and throwing it to the Caribbean.

Seriously? The Caribbean is the most popular cruising destination. They are trying to make a grand appearance and are following the money. They clearly think they can make more money long term putting her there. 
 

I am disappointed also as I was going to be on her next summer, but I am not remotely surprised. 

[volk904]

I think the Beyond staying in Florida year round is pretty big news. Love the Beyond.  That said summer cruises are popular and right now May to September out of Florida there is more demand than ships with so many going to Alaska and Europe.  Celebrity still has two Edge Class ships the Apex and the brand new Accent going to Europe in 2024. You guys might have noticed that Celebrity has been throwing out a lot of discounts on Med cruises this summer. That shows more cabins than demand. Really a case of balancing the ships to keep them full as possible.  

[binro01]

The current state of airfare and other airline shenanigans is making European cruises a more difficult money making venture vs the Caribbean.
 

One less edge class ship in the Med lowers the med inventory they need to sell under those current conditions. Probably as simple as that. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

In addition to the passenger tax, The Bahamas will implement a $5 tourism environmental tax and a $2 tourism enhancement tax for each cruise passenger. 

 

[C4HCG]

8 hours ago, montythecat said:

According to Celebrity CoCo Cay is “big news”. Well,

as far as I am concerned I couldn’t be more

underwhelmed. I don’t care one little bit whether or

not they go there but I am sorry for those whose

bookings have been summarily altered.

Don’t feel sorry for us, our sailing has been altered and we are pleased.

[C4HCG]

5 hours ago, soniam said:

 

Most cruise lines use their newest, blingiest ships for the boring Caribbean itineraries. The thinking is that the itinerary isn't "particularly exciting", so they need an "exciting" ship. I was very happy when X decided to have Edge class in Europe, because usually the European itineraries are the older ships, since it's a more "exciting" itinerary.

All about personal preference. To us, European itineraries are boring.

[Cap_D]

2 hours ago, binro01 said:

The current state of airfare and other airline shenanigans is making European cruises a more difficult money making venture vs the Caribbean.
 

One less edge class ship in the Med lowers the med inventory they need to sell under those current conditions. Probably as simple as that. 

Also, Summer 2024 is the Olympics in France.  Presumably that changes the equation for summer travel to Western Europe, before, during, and after the games, in a number of ways, and doesn't help with airfares or availability.  

Edited June 28, 2023 by Cap_D

[PennStateMom]

I bought 100 shares of RCL last June at $35/share.  Got it for the OBC, but I'm thinking now's a good time to sell.  We definitely won't be taking 65 cruises with Celebrity!

[mfs2k]

I love everyone’s opinions about CocoCay and itineraries which include these “private islands” which aren’t very private when a cruise ship docks there. 
 

If you don’t want to go there, book a different itinerary which stops at real ports or stay on the ship. 
 

I cruised to one of these private destinations in March on Virgin. It was a nice pool and beach day but I would have preferred going elsewhere. I chose the cruise because the dates fit my schedule. It didn’t ruin my vacation. 
 

The good thing about cruises in 2023 is you have choices to fit your budget, lifestyle, and schedule. 
 

I really feel bad, however, for those with European or Transatlantic cruises booked and cancelled. That sucks. 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

3 hours ago, Cap_D said:

Also, Summer 2024 is the Olympics in France.  Presumably that changes the equation for summer travel to Western Europe, before, during, and after the games, in a number of ways, and doesn't help with airfares or availability.  

 

Yeah, I've been pondering a European cruise next summer over my birthday, but the thought of the airfare with the Olympics opening while I'd be on the cruise has me definitely reconsidering.

 

Now that the Beyond has an ABC 8-night over my birthday, the decision may be a lot easier.

[cw2go]

3 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Yeah, I've been pondering a European cruise next summer over my birthday, but the thought of the airfare with the Olympics opening while I'd be on the cruise has me definitely reconsidering.

 

Now that the Beyond has an ABC 8-night over my birthday, the decision may be a lot easier.

I had an AMS & Paris trip planned for Sept 2024. My friend sent me the link with dates of The Olympics and even though they'd be technically over that trip quickly became a distant far off plan for...ONE DAY! 

 

The ABC's and Beyond is a great way to spend your bday! 

Patty 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

1 minute ago, cw2go said:

I had an AMS & Paris trip planned for Sept 2024. My friend sent me the link with dates of The Olympics and even though they'd be technically over that trip quickly became a distant far off plan for...ONE DAY! 

 

The ABC's and Beyond is a great way to spend your bday! 

Patty 

 

Yeah. I also want to tie in Paris and Disneyland Paris when I go to Europe next, so... Yeah. That made not going to Europe next summer an easy decision.

[zitsky]

8 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

They moved it because they think they can make more $$$ by moving it - even taking into account any "apology" OBC they have to give out.

What is the average length or cost of a Caribbean cruise?  What about Mediterranean?

[Oakman58]

I am bummed.  Our little group booked the 6 day cruise on the Reflection in May because it made a stop in Key West.  Now that port has been replaced with Coco Cay and the ship changed to the Beyond.  I’m 77 years old and have undergone treatment for skin cancer twice, I’m not interested in Coco Cay. I’m also not interested in having an infinite balcony. We will be cancelling the cruise.

[kleibo]

12 hours ago, jean87510 said:

It's not that high.  $225 on one of my 3 day sailings and $158 on another.

 

I went back and it looks like I bought during a Black Friday sale.  It was 50% off during that sale and the internet/soda combo was 45% off.

[DWhit]

15 hours ago, hcat said:

the Less RCL influence, the better.  Has aleady taken X down a few notches.

Maybe Celebrity will try to class this one up a bit,  Maybe change the slogan from " A Perfect Day at Coco Cay" to  "Its Coco Key on Celebrity!"  😃

[zitsky]

11 minutes ago, DWhit said:

Maybe Celebrity will try to class this one up a bit,  Maybe change the slogan from " A Perfect Day at Coco Cay" to  "Its Coco Key on Celebrity!"  😃

Let’s replace ALL ports with a visit to a private island.  😂

[Jeremiah1212]

12 hours ago, zitsky said:

No one can explain to me why they’re taking a brand new ship and throwing it to the Caribbean.

 

Very simple. Money and market share. Why did they first move Equinox year round Caribbean in summer of 2017? Follow the $$$. 

 

Edge class ships generate a lot of buzz. This puts access to an E class in all major markets of the cruising world. Northern Europe, Mediterranean, Caribbean and Alaska as well as Australia. 

 

This allows two different customer types to enter the Caribbean market in the summer. Short Caribbean cruisers are typically new. 66% are new to the brand or new to cruising and 34% have Celebrity loyalty. 7 night cruises are 49% new to brand or new to cruising and similarly, roughly half have Celebrity loyalty. As far as families with kids, 10% travel with kids on a 7 night cruise, 14% on a Short Caribbean, and 3% on Long Caribbean. On Short and 7 night Caribbean cruise, just shy of 50% are now younger than Boomers+. That share continues to grow as Boomers and the Silent Gen no longer cruise. There are new markets that needs tapped and the number one way to do that is with ships people are excited about and with short cruises. 

 

They are trying to make a muddy distinction between cruising with kids and cruising for kids and outright encouraging those who are cruising for their kids to remain focused on Royal Caribbean. These are the one where the kids are the number one consideration and the parents are going despite it not being their ideal vacation. The cruise with kids group are those that want to cruise but entertaining the kids is not the priority. They may cruise for the ports, for the food, etc. but are dragging the kids along anyway. I'm honestly not sure how to market this differentiation effectively but we will see. 

 

The window in which people are booking is also shifting. The number of bookings made <6 months from the sail date has increased significantly. 77% of pax on 3-4 night cruises book the cruise within 6 months of the sail date whereas 50% of the pax on a Long Caribbean book within 6 months of sailing. This may be due to multiple thing like people's resistance to book cruises 18-24 months ago when COVID was still a big concern. US citizens are much more likely to book Caribbean on short notice than Europe. And as the rule typically goes, shorter lead time means higher prices. 

 

 

 

[zitsky]

10 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Very simple. Money and market share. Why did they first move Equinox year round Caribbean in summer of 2017? Follow the $$$. 

 

Edge class ships generate a lot of buzz. This puts access to an E class in all major markets of the cruising world. Northern Europe, Mediterranean, Caribbean and Alaska as well as Australia. 

 

This allows two different customer types to enter the Caribbean market in the summer. Short Caribbean cruisers are typically new. 66% are new to the brand or new to cruising and 34% have Celebrity loyalty. 7 night cruises are 49% new to brand or new to cruising and similarly, roughly half have Celebrity loyalty. As far as families with kids, 10% travel with kids on a 7 night cruise, 14% on a Short Caribbean, and 3% on Long Caribbean. On Short and 7 night Caribbean cruise, just shy of 50% are now younger than Boomers+. That share continues to grow as Boomers and the Silent Gen no longer cruise. There are new markets that needs tapped and the number one way to do that is with ships people are excited about and with short cruises. 

 

They are trying to make a muddy distinction between cruising with kids and cruising for kids and outright encouraging those who are cruising for their kids to remain focused on Royal Caribbean. These are the one where the kids are the number one consideration and the parents are going despite it not being their ideal vacation. The cruise with kids group are those that want to cruise but entertaining the kids is not the priority. They may cruise for the ports, for the food, etc. but are dragging the kids along anyway. I'm honestly not sure how to market this differentiation effectively but we will see. 

 

The window in which people are booking is also shifting. The number of bookings made <6 months from the sail date has increased significantly. 77% of pax on 3-4 night cruises book the cruise within 6 months of the sail date whereas 50% of the pax on a Long Caribbean book within 6 months of sailing. This may be due to multiple thing like people's resistance to book cruises 18-24 months ago when COVID was still a big concern. US citizens are much more likely to book Caribbean on short notice than Europe. And as the rule typically goes, shorter lead time means higher prices. 

 

 

 

 

Do you have solid numbers on which cruises make the most money for Celebrity?  I find it hard to believe that a 7 day Caribbean cruise generates more profit than a 14 day Europe or Asia cruise.

[Jeremiah1212]

5 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Do you have solid numbers on which cruises make the most money for Celebrity?  I find it hard to believe that a 7 day Caribbean cruise generates more profit than a 14 day Europe or Asia cruise.

 

They do not release those figures but the writing is on the wall. The longest European cruise for next summer and 12 day. There have been no 14 day Caribbean cruises in several years. Similar to the Caribbean numbers, long cruisers have older more experienced passengers who don't spend as much and book much earlier. There are very few cruises longer than 12 days anywhere in the world and that is done purposefully. 

[poffles]

9 hours ago, binro01 said:

The current state of airfare and other airline shenanigans is making European cruises a more difficult money making venture vs the Caribbean.
 

One less edge class ship in the Med lowers the med inventory they need to sell under those current conditions. Probably as simple as that. 

 

Bang on ... I keep looking at the European cruises and flights just kill the thought.  Not only the cost which is in the thousands per person from Nova Scotia but also that airlines are streamlining so much that most flights have you fly across country in the wrong direction first before flying back past where you started. WestJet, a major Canadian carrier, is now the worst as Calgary is their home base and they now primarily operate by bringing things back to base to 'fly from' ... almost 5k km in the wrong direction to Europe from where I live so 10k extra flight kms ... good grief.

Edited June 28, 2023 by poffles

[Charles4515]

16 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Do you have solid numbers on which cruises make the most money for Celebrity?  I find it hard to believe that a 7 day Caribbean cruise generates more profit than a 14 day Europe or Asia cruise.

They can do two 7 day cruise in 14 days and 7 days is easier to sell. 

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

They can do two 7 day cruise in 14 days and 7 days is easier to sell. 

Maybe so but it seems a lot of this is just speculation.  I’d like to see solid data for why Celebrity would focus on short Caribbean cruises.  
 

it also fits with the idea that Royal is trying to turn Celebrity into, well, Royal Caribbean.  Short cruises, more children on board etc.

 

I don’t have a problem with kids but I don’t want a party atmosphere whether from children or adults.

Edited June 28, 2023 by zitsky