Surprised there's no story up yet regarding couple stuck in Cozumel

[ontheweb]

4 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

That is true, medical emergencies certainly do happen but for most people that risk is low. One can still minimize risk by avoiding certain things.

I agree that you can minimize, but I think we can also agree that you cannot totally eliminate risk. And unfortunately, the cost for a medical emergency can be catastrophic.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I agree that you can minimize, but I think we can also agree that you cannot totally eliminate risk. And unfortunately, the cost for a medical emergency can be catastrophic.

Yes, we can agree that risk cannot be totally eliminated, but we cannot let our lives be controlled by the fear of something going wrong. Even having travel insurance isn't a sure thing because there are many things that aren't covered (as pointed out above) and sometimes even with travel insurance folks are left in the lurch when seeking medical care abroad because they need to pay the cost up front before services are rendered, which can be difficult for many. Each of us does the best we can for ourselves and we hope for the best. Sometimes it still bites us despite our best efforts.

[Iamthesea]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

You can minimize your risk, but you cannot make it go away entirely.

 

We averted a disaster on our cruise last month. DW went to medical as she was constipated. And when we were back home, she went to her own doctor for that reason. And then soon after, she was in an ambulance, an emergency room, and finally the hospital as the reason for the constipation was a twisted bowel. If this has progressed quicker than it did, we would have found ourselves with her needing medical evacuation. And our location when she went to the medical center on this ship was a sea day between Norway and Iceland. 

 

This is not like don't rent a scooter. It would have been something we could not have avoided.

Glad your wife avoided that circumstance while on the trip.  Many years ago, we had a doctor friend have the same thing happen while on a ship.  It was quite the ordeal and he became very ill.

 

When we get trip insurance, we purchase the type that is Primary.  The insurance company will also advance enough money ($5000?) to a medical facility for beginning treatment.  We also carry two major credit cards to make sure that any up front cost can be covered.  And with Primary, we will only have to deal with the travel insurance company when filing claims.  Made the mistake of purchasing Secondary travel insurance, once.  Luckily, the claim was only a medical claim from the ship medical facilities, but it was a pain getting Medicare to first refuse the claim so that we could file with the travel insurance.  For our upcoming cruise/trip, we have chosen Trawick International Safe Travel Voyager Plan.  

 

Unless I missed mention, another cost that will fall on these women is the cost to replace the scooter that was damaged or destroyed in the wreck.  Many years ago, there was a very similar story on CC about the same type accident in Cozumel.  A couple wrecked their scooters and were not allowed to leave the island until they paid for the damage to the scooters.  I cannot remember if they were also injured. 

 

I just found THIS article with a similar story, but it happened two years ago.

 

And THIS  There are lots of articles out there!!!

Edited September 19, 2023 by Iamthesea

[ontheweb]

20 minutes ago, Iamthesea said:

Glad your wife avoided that circumstance while on the trip.  Many years ago, we had a doctor friend have the same thing happen while on a ship.  It was quite the ordeal and he became very ill.

 

When we get trip insurance, we purchase the type that is Primary.  The insurance company will also advance enough money ($5000?) to a medical facility for beginning treatment.  We also carry two major credit cards to make sure that any up front cost can be covered.  And with Primary, we will only have to deal with the travel insurance company when filing claims.  Made the mistake of purchasing Secondary travel insurance, once.  Luckily, the claim was only a medical claim from the ship medical facilities, but it was a pain getting Medicare to first refuse the claim so that we could file with the travel insurance.  For our upcoming cruise/trip, we have chosen Trawick International Safe Travel Voyager Plan.  

 

Unless I missed mention, another cost that will fall on these women is the cost to replace the scooter that was damaged or destroyed in the wreck.  Many years ago, there was a very similar story on CC about the same type accident in Cozumel.  A couple wrecked their scooters and were not allowed to leave the island until they paid for the damage to the scooters.  I cannot remember if they were also injured. 

 

I just found THIS article with a similar story, but it happened two years ago.

 

And THIS  There are lots of articles out there!!!

Thank you, my wife is doing well now.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, Iamthesea said:

Glad your wife avoided that circumstance while on the trip.  Many years ago, we had a doctor friend have the same thing happen while on a ship.  It was quite the ordeal and he became very ill.

 

When we get trip insurance, we purchase the type that is Primary.  The insurance company will also advance enough money ($5000?) to a medical facility for beginning treatment.  We also carry two major credit cards to make sure that any up front cost can be covered.  And with Primary, we will only have to deal with the travel insurance company when filing claims.  Made the mistake of purchasing Secondary travel insurance, once.  Luckily, the claim was only a medical claim from the ship medical facilities, but it was a pain getting Medicare to first refuse the claim so that we could file with the travel insurance.  For our upcoming cruise/trip, we have chosen Trawick International Safe Travel Voyager Plan.  

 

Unless I missed mention, another cost that will fall on these women is the cost to replace the scooter that was damaged or destroyed in the wreck.  Many years ago, there was a very similar story on CC about the same type accident in Cozumel.  A couple wrecked their scooters and were not allowed to leave the island until they paid for the damage to the scooters.  I cannot remember if they were also injured. 

 

I just found THIS article with a similar story, but it happened two years ago.

 

And THIS  There are lots of articles out there!!!

There was one horrific accident, also scooters on Cozumel where someone videoed the first responders that was posted here a few years ago.   One person responded with the ambulance and no assistance.  The husband wanted him to help his wife and was trying to move around to get to her.  The responder wasn't even able to load either until bystanders stepped in and didn't seem to be rendering any aid.  That might have been because the wife already passed or they didn't know what to do.  The husband died at the hospital.  That comes to mind every time I see scooters for rent.  

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Yes, we can agree that risk cannot be totally eliminated, but we cannot let our lives be controlled by the fear of something going wrong. Even having travel insurance isn't a sure thing because there are many things that aren't covered (as pointed out above) and sometimes even with travel insurance folks are left in the lurch when seeking medical care abroad because they need to pay the cost up front before services are rendered, which can be difficult for many. Each of us does the best we can for ourselves and we hope for the best. Sometimes it still bites us despite our best efforts.

Yes, there are risks and acceptable risks. I think that is what you are saying. But I would be willing to bet that you have car insurance and homeowner's insurance. The insurance companies are in business to make money and you are probably behind with these, but still the risks need to be covered.

[DrUrsula]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:58 AM, ontheweb said:

I should add, we also had pounds in London. We did manage to spend them, but if we had none, it would not have ever mattered as we could have used a credit card.

 

Our daughter lives in Spain and uses ApplePay or some such for everything. She travels between her home , England and France frequently and almost never uses cash. 

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, there are risks and acceptable risks. I think that is what you are saying. But I would be willing to bet that you have car insurance and homeowner's insurance. The insurance companies are in business to make money and you are probably behind with these, but still the risks need to be covered.

I do have those insurances, but mainly because the banks and the state require it. If that weren't so then I would have to determine if having the insurance was worth it. For the house, most assuredly. For the car, it would depend a great deal on what said car was worth (for comprehensive coverage, of course, the state minimums would still need coverage). I am one who gets the travel insurance for every trip but mostly it's for medevac coverage, since the costs of a medevac seem to start at around $25k and go up from there. We could get medevac coverage only but a comprehensive plan isn't that much more. But we are older now than when we started cruising and our risks have gone up a bit in the medical department. 

 

And yes, I am saying there are risks and acceptable risks, but also what is acceptable to one may not be acceptable to another. Everyone tolerates risks differently. 

[asalligo]

 

This scenario is not new to old cruisers. Heald has been warning people for years not to rent vehicles in Mexico. I know a pastor who got stuck in Mexico for months after a car accident in a rented vehicle. Mexico requires some kind of monetary deposit for foreigners involved in accidents before they can leave the country and I have also heard before they can get medical treatment. At one point Carnival actually advocated just returning to the ship if this happened. 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I do have those insurances, but mainly because the banks and the state require it. If that weren't so then I would have to determine if having the insurance was worth it. For the house, most assuredly. For the car, it would depend a great deal on what said car was worth (for comprehensive coverage, of course, the state minimums would still need coverage). I am one who gets the travel insurance for every trip but mostly it's for medevac coverage, since the costs of a medevac seem to start at around $25k and go up from there. We could get medevac coverage only but a comprehensive plan isn't that much more. But we are older now than when we started cruising and our risks have gone up a bit in the medical department. 

 

And yes, I am saying there are risks and acceptable risks, but also what is acceptable to one may not be acceptable to another. Everyone tolerates risks differently. 

I think we have reached a point where we are both in agreement with each other. 

 

The problem though is that there are some who feel invulnerable and do not realize that the risks are real.

[sparks1093]

41 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I think we have reached a point where we are both in agreement with each other. 

 

The problem though is that there are some who feel invulnerable and do not realize that the risks are real.

That is true, but that doesn't really affect me. All I can do is learn from their mistakes.

[Eli_6]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:03 AM, Bollycats said:

I'm very curious as to what the Amazon scam is. How did the scammers benefit?

This actually is a legitimate Amazon scam.  They send packages you didn't order to your address, and charge your card.  Oh, and they send you some item of little value and overcharge you for it.  When you try to dispute it with the cc company, the seller shows them a pic of what was delivered to you by amazon so you look like the liar and they get to keep the money.  And the seller is someone who doesn't take returns or you can't find a return address or they claim you are not sending back the item they sent you.  My Mom had a friend who had this happen to her. 

[ninjacat123]

1 hour ago, asalligo said:

 

This scenario is not new to old cruisers. Heald has been warning people for years not to rent vehicles in Mexico. I know a pastor who got stuck in Mexico for months after a car accident in a rented vehicle. Mexico requires some kind of monetary deposit for foreigners involved in accidents before they can leave the country and I have also heard before they can get medical treatment. At one point Carnival actually advocated just returning to the ship if this happened. 

Carnival was advocating leaving the scene of an accident and getting on board?  Sounds like getting to the American Embassy for protection?  Would the Mexican police not be able to board the ship?  @chengkp75 do you have any info on this scenario?  TIA!

Edited September 20, 2023 by ninjacat123

[Eli_6]

And fwiw, I dealt with insurance companies for over a decade (often times resorting to suing them) and I also think insurance is primarily a scam.  They write the policies in such a way that it is a flip of a coin whether they will pay. They have a team of attorneys figuring out ways to NOT pay you. (I also used to work with a fellow attorney who had been an insurance attorney and his stories were bad.)

 

When our house flooded with 7+ feet of Water in Harvey, I had to fight them for 9 months to get paid. Home insurance wouldn't pay (as they shouldn't) because it was flood damage. And flood insurance said my damage (from 7 feet of water mind you!!!) was undamaged.  They even sent out an unlicensed "expert" structural engineer and took pics of the undamaged portions of my house and claimed that there was no damage.  If I had not been a lawyer who literally practiced in this arena, I would have been screwed.

 

Similarly, my husband recently was owed over 50k by Aetna due to their screw up.  He didn't get paid for a 5 months period for over a year because they lost a contract.  It took me blasting out a demand letter to every board member and the CEO for him to finally get paid a year later. Probably 200+ hours were spend by him and his staff trying to collect this money.

 

And I have seen it worse in a business situation where companies owed millions in liability and had to be sued to be paid.  Took it all the way up to the 5th circuit and won. So, 7 years after the claim, my client was finally paid.  SEVEN years and 100k in attorney fees.  But the company wins at this game because most people won't fight it for seven years and don't have 100k to spend in lawyer fees.

 

I have hundreds of other stories like this. Every insurance company out there makes money by NOT paying you. Some are worse than others. Yes, I still have home owners insurance, professional liability insurance, car insurance, and health insurance.  But for anything that won't be "catastrophic" to my financial situation, I don't buy insurance for.  And a lot of credit cards provide travel insurance if you pay with them anyway...including even car insurance. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Eli_6

[Elaine5715]

19 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

And fwiw, I dealt with insurance companies for over a decade (often times resorting to suing them) and I also think insurance is primarily a scam.  They write the policies in such a way that it is a flip of a coin whether they will pay. They have a team of attorneys figuring out ways to NOT pay you. (I also used to work with a fellow attorney who had been an insurance attorney and his stories were bad.)

 

When our house flooded with 7+ feet of Water in Harvey, I had to fight them for 9 months to get paid. Home insurance wouldn't pay (as they shouldn't) because it was flood damage. And flood insurance said my damage (from 7 feet of water mind you!!!) was undamaged.  They even sent out an unlicensed "expert" structural engineer and took pics of the undamaged portions of my house and claimed that there was no damage.  If I had not been a lawyer who literally practiced in this arena, I would have been screwed.

 

Similarly, my husband recently was owed over 50k by Aetna due to their screw up.  He didn't get paid for a 5 months period for over a year because they lost a contract.  It took me blasting out a demand letter to every board member and the CEO for him to finally get paid a year later. Probably 200+ hours were spend by him and his staff trying to collect this money.

 

And I have seen it worse in a business situation where companies owed millions in liability and had to be sued to be paid.  Took it all the way up to the 5th circuit and won. So, 7 years after the claim, my client was finally paid.  SEVEN years and 100k in attorney fees.  But the company wins at this game because most people won't fight it for seven years and don't have 100k to spend in lawyer fees.

 

I have hundreds of other stories like this. Every insurance company out there makes money by NOT paying you. Some are worse than others. Yes, I still have home owners insurance, professional liability insurance, car insurance, and health insurance.  But for anything that won't be "catastrophic" to my financial situation, I don't buy insurance for.  And a lot of credit cards provide travel insurance if you pay with them anyway...including even car insurance. 

So true.  My partner was hurt out of state due to a truck that lost their load on a highway next to him on a motorcycle.  The truck clearly at fault in an "at-fault" state.  It reverts to our auto policy for payment who gives us crap every step including calling him while he was in the hospital to demand where the motorcycle was being stored "because they wouldn't pay storage fees".  His motorcycle buddies rallied to bring him and the motorcycle back home.  The insurance company reminds us they can't reimburse for that (thou they weren't asked).   Fast forward, enter mediation with an local attorney, judge and truck company attorney team.  He easily wins the full amount of their liability policy which is paid by the same insurance company we had.  Once check was deposited, we changed carriers.  

[Babr]

40 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

And fwiw, I dealt with insurance companies for over a decade (often times resorting to suing them) and I also think insurance is primarily a scam.  They write the policies in such a way that it is a flip of a coin whether they will pay. They have a team of attorneys figuring out ways to NOT pay you. (I also used to work with a fellow attorney who had been an insurance attorney and his stories were bad.)

 

When our house flooded with 7+ feet of Water in Harvey, I had to fight them for 9 months to get paid. Home insurance wouldn't pay (as they shouldn't) because it was flood damage. And flood insurance said my damage (from 7 feet of water mind you!!!) was undamaged.  They even sent out an unlicensed "expert" structural engineer and took pics of the undamaged portions of my house and claimed that there was no damage.  If I had not been a lawyer who literally practiced in this arena, I would have been screwed.

 

Similarly, my husband recently was owed over 50k by Aetna due to their screw up.  He didn't get paid for a 5 months period for over a year because they lost a contract.  It took me blasting out a demand letter to every board member and the CEO for him to finally get paid a year later. Probably 200+ hours were spend by him and his staff trying to collect this money.

 

And I have seen it worse in a business situation where companies owed millions in liability and had to be sued to be paid.  Took it all the way up to the 5th circuit and won. So, 7 years after the claim, my client was finally paid.  SEVEN years and 100k in attorney fees.  But the company wins at this game because most people won't fight it for seven years and don't have 100k to spend in lawyer fees.

 

I have hundreds of other stories like this. Every insurance company out there makes money by NOT paying you. Some are worse than others. Yes, I still have home owners insurance, professional liability insurance, car insurance, and health insurance.  But for anything that won't be "catastrophic" to my financial situation, I don't buy insurance for.  And a lot of credit cards provide travel insurance if you pay with them anyway...including even car insurance. 

 

Credit card travel benefits cover cancellation, interruption, and delay - not medical. Wouldn’t help these girls or anyone else in a similar situation. 

[Boatdrill]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:26 PM, klfrodo said:

No Insurance

No passports

Wrecked scooter

 

 

Where are  their passports ?

[MsTabbyKats]

1 hour ago, Eli_6 said:

This actually is a legitimate Amazon scam.  They send packages you didn't order to your address, and charge your card.  Oh, and they send you some item of little value and overcharge you for it.  When you try to dispute it with the cc company, the seller shows them a pic of what was delivered to you by amazon so you look like the liar and they get to keep the money.  And the seller is someone who doesn't take returns or you can't find a return address or they claim you are not sending back the item they sent you.  My Mom had a friend who had this happen to her. 

Which is why I check credit cards....daily.  

[asalligo]

2 hours ago, ninjacat123 said:

Carnival was advocating leaving the scene of an accident and getting on board?  Sounds like getting to the American Embassy for protection?  Would the Mexican police not be able to board the ship?  @chengkp75 do you have any info on this scenario?  TIA!

I am not sure what their plan was, but they did say get back to the ship if you can. I suspect they were going to help negotiate you leaving today, probably by maxing out your credit card. 

[Itried4498]

Some of these responses amuse me.  No travel insurance will cover risky/ negligent behavior.  Two people riding on a single scooter would almost certainly be deemed negligent, regardless of how careful these girls were (or weren’t) driving.  Heck, iI’d expect that most insurers would deny the claim even if one person was riding the scooter, provided they were not wearing appropriate protection (helmet, etc.)

 

Most policies will only reimburse and do not pre-approve any treatment.  Reimbursement is limited to reasonable cost of care in the location.

 

insurance is not a magic pill.  As I mentioned earlier, it is illegals in Mexico to hold you “hostage” for payment.  If you’re in a touristy area, it won’t be much of a problem to get the American Embassy involved.  And since the hospital knows it will be difficult to collect once you leave, it will negotiate for pennies on the dollar.  That’s what locals pay anyway.

 

OR… you could purchase travel insurance, pay the hospital $20k… and find out that they will reimburse only $2k - which is R&C for the area.

 

IMO, purchase travel medical only when traveling for extended periods of time (unless you’re high risk), avoid risky activity and self-insure (that is, save the money you’d spend toward insurance and pay out of pocket when necessary).

Kinda reminds me of my mom.  When my parents had their house built 31 years ago, they added a home warranty.  They’ve paid over $10K for the home warranty through the years… had they put this money in a savings or invested it, they’d have $12-15k.  I’ve been telling them for years they’re being ripped.  Recently, their furnace died and the home warranty paid them $800.  My mom’s declaring victory LOL.

 

 

[Eli_6]

48 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Which is why I check credit cards....daily.  

I check my credit cards regularly, too, and have my alerts set to send me texts or emails for certain suspicious activity like online purchases and foreign purchases. I was able to catch fraudulent charges on my card within an hour or two last time some went on my card.  However, my point to the post was just that the "Amazon" scam is actually a real scam. It sounds farfetched, I know, but it actually is happening. 

[MadManOfBethesda]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:52 AM, firefly333 said:

Speaking of not reading... I never said I put cash in a pocket. So making stuff up then railing hahahaha.

 

I would never ever do that. My neck purse is down into my bra I mentioned. Google a neck purse instead of making stuff up. I carry a purse with a small amount as I said in a hidden pocket you have to turn the purse inside out to reach. It has a shoulder strap I put across my body. And then keep my hand on it across my body. Small amount only for small things carried this way. The rest is down in my bra the few times I went to buy meds in Belize for cash. 

 

How do you read that and think I said I put a wad of cash in my pocket. I am pretty exasperated with my roll call posting stupid stuff, leaving this morning. I have low tolerance for people who make up stuff. At least stick to facts.  

 

Even skim reading imo I would see neck purse and think. ...its worn around the neck. Dropped into my bra. 

 

I really need this cruise. Stressed due to my moms death and paperwork so my tolerance for people who cant read or making up rules is extra low.  I am guessing you are Male., women I know usually have a purse and not carrying money in a pocket. I wear mine with a body strap and walk with my hand on it. Take precautions dude. Be smart. 

Fine, neck purse. You still have to take the money out of it to use it. And if you use cash in ports, it is subject to being taken from you. Even you have to admit that if you use cash there is a greater-than-zero chance of having it stolen and then you and you alone are out that money. But if you use a credit card that is hacked or stolen, it is the credit card company that is out the money. You have lost zero, nada, nothing.

 

So once again, explain how using cash is safer than using credit cards?

[UpstateCruizer]

On 9/15/2023 at 9:31 PM, MadManOfBethesda said:

And speaking of taking stupid chances...

 

You seriously believe that it is safer to walk around crowded tourist areas/cities with a wad of cash in your pocket rather than a credit card or two?  LOL

 

Worst case with a credit card is that it gets hacked or stolen and you contact your cc company to have it cancelled. But you are out no money. But with a wad of cash, not only would you be out that money if you were pickpocketed or robbed, but you could also be seriously injured if the thief decides that getting your money is more important than your life.

 

But that's okay, you do you.

We use cash in all the ports but never carry a wad of cash. We do have a credit card with us as a back up though. Last cruise we were in Nassau and the Pirate Brewery we stopped at informed us they no longer accept cash. It wasn’t a big deal but they had said it’s becoming an issue to accept cash. 

[nascarcruiser]

Couple of things we learned when a friend had a diving accident in Cozumel on a land vacation. Didn't realize his diving insurance had laspsed and didn't have travel insurance because he thought his diving insurance was valid.  His health insurance did cover him while out of the country though. He was taken to the International Hospital.  Always as tourist ask to be taken to the International Hospital.  The Hospital wrote it up as he slipped on the boat not as a dive accident. And they didn't require the bill to be paid in full when he was discharged.  I think he paid 1/3 of the $30k bill at discharge.   Also the hospital advised if he was not going to renew the diving insurance to purchase travel insurance that covers extreme sports.  That will cover just about any cruise excursions you book.  Most medical on trip insurance will exclude what they consider extreme sports  

[sanger727]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:05 AM, Eli_6 said:

This actually is a legitimate Amazon scam.  They send packages you didn't order to your address, and charge your card.  Oh, and they send you some item of little value and overcharge you for it.  When you try to dispute it with the cc company, the seller shows them a pic of what was delivered to you by amazon so you look like the liar and they get to keep the money.  And the seller is someone who doesn't take returns or you can't find a return address or they claim you are not sending back the item they sent you.  My Mom had a friend who had this happen to her. 

 

So the scammers are illegitimate sellers on Amazon? I would expect Amazon to handle this. They have records of what you purchased and when.