Updates to Zenith + Retreat with cruise only rate

[Lastdance]

I am only a meager elite+ cruiser, but I hate paying for the drink package when I really do not drink.  Cruise only would be my preference, but I have never been allowed to do that with a suite, so just sucked it up; however, with these sky-high prices, I have gone to an SV rather than a Sunset Suite 50% of the time.  I am happy for those of you who have earned Zenith, Zenith X’s 2 and Zenith X’s 3.😍  You have spent a lot of money and deserve this change beginning immediately!🥰

Edited March 26 by Lastdance

[billc23]

Great news! I will find out if they will price adjust my April 9th and April 27th sailings - even OBC or a FCC would be fine. As far as future bookings, I already have over 100 days booked on other cruise lines for 2025 until spring 2026 and none are on Celebrity. It started with the cutbacks, the nickel and dime stuff, the increase in Retreat pricing, the decrease in food quality, and other small annoyances that caused me to look elsewhere. Once I did - and had great experiences - I will need to find a Celebrity cruise at great price to consider it and the new Zenith benefits may make that happen. Time will tell. 

 

Celebrity needs to regain the confidence in their product that has been lost for me and other frequent cruisers. The positive changes to their loyalty program in a good start.

[Jim_Iain]

8 hours ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I wonder if Jim’s talk with the prez had anything to do with this ? 

I was also surprised and grateful.     Laura did say they were working on some changes to be implemented before April and hoped to win us back as dedicated cruisers.  

 

I don't have enough vanity to believe I was responsible but possibly just one more data point of them loosing long time dedicated cruisers. 

 

Unfortunately after being pushed to jump ship, we will now continue to book with Celebrity but only if price and itinerary are in line with what we experience on other lines.    They lost over $100,000 in bookings this year alone.     I wonder how many young families on 4 day cruises it take to replace that.

[Jim_Iain]

7 hours ago, mahdnc said:

I wonder if the price adjustment will be made for Zenith passengers who are booked in The Retreat after final payment deadline has passed.

 

In the FAQ -  Yes.   They will contact TA's of those booked to facilitate a rebooting.   Whatever that means.    I think April 15 was the date they said they would contact agents.   Unfortunately my First Solstice leaving on April 8 will miss that... Will see what happens.  

[TommyD3]

25 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

I was also surprised and grateful.     Laura did say they were working on some changes to be implemented before April and hoped to win us back as dedicated cruisers.  

 

I don't have enough vanity to believe I was responsible but possibly just one more data point of them loosing long time dedicated cruisers. 

 

Unfortunately after being pushed to jump ship, we will now continue to book with Celebrity but only if price and itinerary are in line with what we experience on other lines.    They lost over $100,000 in bookings this year alone.     I wonder how many young families on 4 day cruises it take to replace that.

Did anyone suggest to LHB that they should create a Zenith Plus level at 7500? Would be great since there are so many new Zeniths every day. Would be great if they honored every Z+ and some extra benefits like complementary Blu access for those in lower level cabins.

[mahdnc]

35 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

In the FAQ -  Yes.   They will contact TA's of those booked to facilitate a rebooting.   Whatever that means.    I think April 15 was the date they said they would contact agents.   Unfortunately my First Solstice leaving on April 8 will miss that... Will see what happens.  

i saw that as I posted the FAQ. I’m wondering if cruises that are paid in full are eligible, too. The FAQ implies it but I’m wondering. 

[NMTraveller]

It seems like now Celebrity has gone back to trying to keep their loyal customers who sailed multiple times per year vs. chasing them away with a stick will all of the cutbacks.

 

I suppose that those once a year cruisers could not replace the frequent cruisers...  Now if they could just get their service levels back ...

Edited March 27 by NMTraveller

[tfred]

1 hour ago, Jim_Iain said:

I was also surprised and grateful.     Laura did say they were working on some changes to be implemented before April and hoped to win us back as dedicated cruisers.  

 

I don't have enough vanity to believe I was responsible but possibly just one more data point of them loosing long time dedicated cruisers. 

 

Unfortunately after being pushed to jump ship, we will now continue to book with Celebrity but only if price and itinerary are in line with what we experience on other lines.    They lost over $100,000 in bookings this year alone.     I wonder how many young families on 4 day cruises it take to replace that.

Companies want to keep long time "presently profitable" customers. Customers they had years ago that were profitable then are a nice memory but no one is going to go out of their way to keep low margin customers no matter how fond they are of them.

 

They may be finding that Zeniths are bored by the meat of the X market cruises - 7 day Caribbean, big city Med cruises. I would wonder if many long time Z cruisers would be bored by those itineraries and would gravitate to other lines by choice in any case

 

I am a lifetime Titanium with Marriott (sorta like Zenith) and I can say that while Marriott appreciates by previous business they will only do so much when I check in now.  They aren't throwing flower petals on the lobby floor. X knows this and is modeling their business model on land hotels.   They know all the metrics

 

X wants people on 4 day cruises, because they think that it could be a stepping stone to get those same people on 7 day cruises if they like the experience. 

[cruisestitch]

57 minutes ago, TommyD3 said:

Did anyone suggest to LHB that they should create a Zenith Plus level at 7500? Would be great since there are so many new Zeniths every day. Would be great if they honored every Z+ and some extra benefits like complementary Blu access for those in lower level cabins.

Zenith plus should be 4500.  Then they should formally recognize Double Zenith and 7500 would be Double Zenith Plus.

[hrhdhd]

9 hours ago, mahdnc said:

Here is the official flyer including FAQs on the subject published by Celebrity: link

 

Too bad Jim's proofreading post didn't result in the apostrophe being added here. 😉

[Georgia_Peaches]

9 hours ago, mahdnc said:

Here is the official flyer including FAQs on the subject published by Celebrity: link

 

Your clients Zenith membership just got better

 

If the audience of this flyer is TA’s then it should read:  Your clients’ Zenith memberships just got better…assuming the TA has more that one client. Or Your client’s Zenith membership just got better…assuming they only have one client. 
 

Typos are one thing…but published flyers?  
 

All that to say, good news for Zenith members!

[jelayne]

1 hour ago, Jim_Iain said:

 

In the FAQ -  Yes.   They will contact TA's of those booked to facilitate a rebooting.   Whatever that means.    I think April 15 was the date they said they would contact agents.   Unfortunately my First Solstice leaving on April 8 will miss that... Will see what happens.  

The way I read the FAQs was they would have contacted all TA regarding adjustments by 4/17.  I have notified our TA  since we have a cruise on 4/5. Hoping they will reach out to X vs waiting to contaced.

 

Interesting side note,  we downgraded from a SS to SV  savings $11k. About 3 weeks  ago I had our TA contact X asking us about an upgrade to a SS as there were an  were about 50% open.  The price I was willing to pay was current fare less $80 pp pd for that sailing   The Xrep told our TA that there was not now or very going to be a cruise only fare for suites🤔. 

[markeb]

16 minutes ago, tfred said:

Companies want to keep long time "presently profitable" customers. Customers they had years ago that were profitable then are a nice memory but no one is going to go out of their way to keep low margin customers no matter how fond they are of them.

 

They may be finding that Zeniths are bored by the meat of the X market cruises - 7 day Caribbean, big city Med cruises. I would wonder if many long time Z cruisers would be bored by those itineraries and would gravitate to other lines by choice in any case

 

I am a lifetime Titanium with Marriott (sorta like Zenith) and I can say that while Marriott appreciates by previous business they will only do so much when I check in now.  They aren't throwing flower petals on the lobby floor. X knows this and is modeling their business model on land hotels.   They know all the metrics

 

X wants people on 4 day cruises, because they think that it could be a stepping stone to get those same people on 7 day cruises if they like the experience. 

 

As a fellow Lifetime Titanium with Marriott (one of the rarest loyalty statuses out there, as you know!), I agree. I don't begrudge Zenith members here, but I'm a bit surprised. Someone at Celebrity did an analysis that keeping Zenith's cruising was a net positive on Customer Lifetime Value. Marriott doesn't "owe" me anything for all the money I spent with them. United doesn't "owe" me anything for all the miles I flew. The programs are designed to encourage "presently profitable" (I'm going to steal that...) customers (a good reason that airline and hotel programs are annual and lifetime status is a very high hurdle) to continue spending.

 

I'm actually more interested that Celebrity felt they needed to do this. Jason Liberty keeps saying that demand has been increasing for RCG as prices have increased. That's in their public filings, so there has to be a basis in fact. That would suggest there's no financial reason to make this change. I don't know how many Zenith members there are. I know I've watched United Global Services members turn right through the cabin door to economy, and I did the same many times while I had 1K status. I guess their concern is that the highest tiered members of their retention program would rather cruise someone else than "fly coach with perks". Or pay the flat rate pricing. And frankly the "always included" concept was the direct opposite of the "nickel and diming" everyone complains about. And competitive (before some of the recent price increases) with luxury lines for the Retreat. 

 

Glad for the Zeniths. It's a great thing for them. Scratching my head on why it makes business sense if the ships are full. They're not doing this because it's "the right thing to do"...

[NMTraveller]

18 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

As a fellow Lifetime Titanium with Marriott (one of the rarest loyalty statuses out there, as you know!), I agree. I don't begrudge Zenith members here, but I'm a bit surprised. Someone at Celebrity did an analysis that keeping Zenith's cruising was a net positive on Customer Lifetime Value. Marriott doesn't "owe" me anything for all the money I spent with them. United doesn't "owe" me anything for all the miles I flew. The programs are designed to encourage "presently profitable" (I'm going to steal that...) customers (a good reason that airline and hotel programs are annual and lifetime status is a very high hurdle) to continue spending.

 

I'm actually more interested that Celebrity felt they needed to do this. Jason Liberty keeps saying that demand has been increasing for RCG as prices have increased. That's in their public filings, so there has to be a basis in fact. That would suggest there's no financial reason to make this change. I don't know how many Zenith members there are. I know I've watched United Global Services members turn right through the cabin door to economy, and I did the same many times while I had 1K status. I guess their concern is that the highest tiered members of their retention program would rather cruise someone else than "fly coach with perks". Or pay the flat rate pricing. And frankly the "always included" concept was the direct opposite of the "nickel and diming" everyone complains about. And competitive (before some of the recent price increases) with luxury lines for the Retreat. 

 

Glad for the Zeniths. It's a great thing for them. Scratching my head on why it makes business sense if the ships are full. They're not doing this because it's "the right thing to do"...

I think that the Zenith's cruise a lot more and help fill up their ships.  Therefore they are more valuable than the person who cruises once per year.  I suspect that demand is starting to soften a bit.  They have to plan for the future.

Edited March 27 by NMTraveller

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

I think that the Zenith's cruise a lot more and help fill up their ships.  Therefore they are more valuable than the person who cruises once per year.  I suspect that demand is starting to soften a bit.  They have to plan for the future.

 

That would be the business explanation, if the math works. The person cruising once per year is paying full fare, including the AI for the Retreat. In the age of internet marketing and niche marketing, the question is how much does it cost to recruit that once a year cruiser versus provide a free benefit to the repeat cruiser. And since status is for life, you're providing the same benefit to someone who now only cruises once a year, same as your new cruiser. Most folks with that status on CC still cruise a lot, obviously.

 

As you say, softening demand would change the calculus. Glad I can analyze as an outsider, not have my job on the line doing it for them...

[TommyD3]

7 hours ago, cruisestitch said:

Zenith plus should be 4500.  Then they should formally recognize Double Zenith and 7500 would be Double Zenith Plus.

Elite is 300. Elite Plus is 750. Zenith is 3000. Using the same logic Zenith Plus would be 7500.

[WestLakeGirl]

But what if it is additive, not a multiplier?  It doesn't matter, anyway, since there is no sign of any additional levels in the plan. 

[paulh84]

9 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

I think that the Zenith's cruise a lot more and help fill up their ships.  Therefore they are more valuable than the person who cruises once per year.  I suspect that demand is starting to soften a bit.  They have to plan for the future.

 

It would make more sense if there are actually very few Zeniths booking suites so the impact to the bottom line is more or less unaffected and the complaints are hushed. The reality is when you see comments like "they lost $xxxxx dollars because I went elsewhere" is just not the way it works. 

[tomcruiser1234]

Ok folks. Just saw this post. Cruise Critic is great. 

 

We’re on on the Eclipse April 20 th and then April 27th. 2024. 

 

The 14 day April 27th were booked in a retreat RS. Will they actually reduce the price???

 

if so……wow.  

 

 

 

 

[jelayne]

We have a paid in full Suite on the 4/5 Edge sailing. 
I just heard from my TA who spoke to the a Zenith Concierge and she was told that the change does not apply to paid in full bookings. 😢

[tfred]

I wouldn't get too giddy until the Retreat cruise only rate is announced. Looking at the cruise only rates for other cabins levels, it is only $500-700 savings per person.  That is a nice number but Sky Suites are generally in the $10k range so a suite will still be potentially expensive   X isn't going to offer a suite at Veranda prices   

 

X (like every other company) isn't going to discount their best product.  I flew a lot (and I mean a lot) on Delta and it was exceedingly rare that anyone received an upgrade to business on an overseas flight (domestic was different)

[RichYak]

10 hours ago, markeb said:

Jason Liberty keeps saying that demand has been increasing for RCG as prices have increased. That's in their public filings, so there has to be a basis in fact

"Demand has been increasing" can be a nebulous phrase. It could simply mean they have more bookings year over year. They also have more capacity to fill with new ships, so if bookings were the same as last year, that would be really bad, and more bookings would not necessarily be good unless it was a LOT more.

 

I'm just not sure how RCG actually defines "demand".

[Lena11033]

5 minutes ago, jelayne said:

We have a paid in full Suite on the 4/5 Edge sailing. 
I just heard from my TA who spoke to the a Zenith Concierge and she was told that the change does not apply to paid in full bookings. 😢

 

What a loop hole, as of April but if paid in full sorry no. My cruise is in July (not a suite) but like the final payment is April so a whole bunch of cruises would be paid in full that didn't count for a discount

[RichYak]

2 minutes ago, tfred said:

X (like every other company) isn't going to discount their best product.

They've been discounting it for years via the move-up program.

 

I would assume they've run the numbers to make this an easy decision: selling more suites at cruise-only rate to Zeniths probably results in more revenue than filling those same cabins with move-ups. Everybody wins, except those hoping for move-up luck.

[tfred]

2 minutes ago, RichYak said:

They've been discounting it for years via the move-up program.

 

I would assume they've run the numbers to make this an easy decision: selling more suites at cruise-only rate to Zeniths probably results in more revenue than filling those same cabins with move-ups. Everybody wins, except those hoping for move-up luck.

Move ups are space available, literally last minute. Potential pax at that price level are less affected by cost than the average veranda customer  Move up people are looking for a bargain   Straight up suite purchasers are not  - they want value 

 

The Z program is probably less of a price reduction for X.  They know the numbers and have determined that this keeps Zs quiet(er). They know the cruise frequency of Zs and what impact this will be