I find myself less than comforted after reading Carnival Cruise Lines Wikipedia Page

[Herfnerd]

Don't cruise HAL then, because of the boiler room fire on the Westerdam back in 2014. And forget Royal Caribbean - they had a fireon the Grandeur of the Seas at the mooring area in 2013 and an engine room fire on the Allure of the Seas in 2012. Might as well skip Princess too - Royal Princess had an engine room fire in 2009.

 

 

Am I starting to sound ridiculous yet?

[InitialD]

If you think that is bad I hope you don't Google "Costa Concordia" and/or know that Costa is a Carnival brand and was a sister ship of of the Carnival Conquest class. ;)

[tidecat]

For that matter, Royal Caribbean had an incident this week where the Coast Guard would not let them set sail.

 

 

Sent from my eye phone using Forums FFS

[crzndeb]

Omg. Did someone just start a thread based on a wiki quote?? Hope these people don't vote.

 

 

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Look at the numerous other threads OP has started and I think you will get your answer.

[stealthy]

Look at the numerous other threads OP has started and I think you will get your answer.

 

 

 

Hahahaha excellent pick up.

 

Stay home!

[ryano]

Look at the numerous other threads OP has started and I think you will get your answer.

 

OP is dying to find something wrong with her Carnival cruise before she even leaves the dock :D At least as of right now, as far as we know, Carnival has up to date life jackets LOL!

[AdrenalineRush]

Wikipedia is definitely a reliable internet source. :rolleyes:

 

Also, that is a false quote. The contract states no such thing in any way shape if form about not being responsible for providing a seaworthy vessel.

This is the entire back story of that quote

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5657

 

Cruise Critic has reached out to Frank Spagnoletti, the lawyer representing the plaintiffs in the class-action suit, for comment.

 

The reporter in the CNN piece told Anderson Cooper that all facts aside, Carnival Cruise Lines' ticket contract states that there is "no guarantee for safe passage, a seaworthy vessel, adequate and wholesome food and sanitary and safe living conditions." This language does not, in fact, appear in the line's ticket contract and Gulliksen said the passage that was quoted "was taken entirely out of context from a legal document that Carnival drafted in response to the lawsuit. It in no way illustrates the way we operate our vessels."

[hookedoncruising99]

But what am I to make of the first statement, about not guaranteeing a seaworthy vessel? Isn't that what we are trusting them to do?!

 

Have you ever flown? Ever taken a train? Ever taken a bus? Read the fine print on all of their ticket contracts and you'll find nearly the identical wording. It's all standard CYA. And like most have said--when figuring one's income, it also includes just not tips but room & board, medical/dental/vision care, paid transportation/lodging round trip anywhere in between contracts.

 

If that still doesn't make you comfortable cruising (and yes its the same on all lines), then perhaps you should stay state-side in a hotel, eat at restaurants and take in a show......oh wait they all get paid less than minimum wage plus tips too ;)

[chengkp75]

Okay, couple of points. The maintenance issues quoted in the Wiki article apply to the Splendor fire, not the Triumph fire. The part that failed on the Triumph had in fact been replaced less than a year earlier.

 

As noted, the quote about the seaworthiness is not in the ticket contract, but in fact, they since there is no mention of it, they do not imply any guarantee. There is an international law (can't find it right now) that guarantees a passenger a "reasonable" assumption of safety of life. However, what was meant by the statement of "no guarantee of seaworthiness" means that they recognize that the hazards of the sea exist, and that things can break down at any time, regardless of the best maintenance.

 

 

The wages are essentially correct. The "daily service charge" makes up the large majority of some crew's wages (wait staff, housekeeping), but this is clearly stated in their employment contract when they sign on. In addition there are international codes that set minimum wages for seafarers, and minimum hours of rest per day and week. But 12-14 hour days, every day, is normal for shipboard employment, regardless of whether it is a cruise ship or a cargo ship. Ships don't stop for the night, or weekend, so you just have to keep working. Been doing it for 42 years.

 

 

As for benefits, the Maritime Labor Convention, which sets living conditions and wages for mariners, also defines what benefits an employer must meet, and this is basically whatever the seafarer's home country requires. So, a Filippino crew gets medical benefits (when off the ship) and "social security" benefits as defined by the Phillipines government. A crew member from Bulgaria will get different benefits.

 

 

Most cruise ship crew feel that the wages paid provide them with a moderate to high middle class income in their home country. There is no reason to pay US wages to crew who don't live in the US and need to pay for a US standard of living.

 

 

For lizardhowson: First off, on the RCI Majesty of the Seas, the lifejackets were not "outdated", since there is no expiration date for non-inflatable lifejackets. If you read the threads on the RCI forum, a couple of ex-USCG officers and I explain how there is considerable leeway in what an inspector claims is either serviceable or non-serviceable. And until I see the USCG PSC detention report, I will reserve judgement as to how many jackets were condemned, and how many were "requested" to be renewed at this time, since the inspector found them marginal.

[sprint180]

You'd better not book Carnival. Drive those prices down so I can get a cheaper cruise.

[StolidCruiser]

You should immediately cancel your cruise with Carnival, thereby relieve yourself of any self induced guilt trip for exploitation and avoid being caught in a potential fire hazard situation at sea. Don't delay. Do it now.

 

This... exactly.

 

 

No one forces people to sail (or work for) a cruiseline that they believe to be dismissive, rouge, irresponsible and indenturing.

 

 

OP - cancel, eat the loss and consider your soul cleansed for not feeding the corporate bilge machine.

 

 

The rest of us will partake in ignorant bliss by puttiing your Wikipuke-ia references in the context they deserve - the garbage.

[Doggielover68]

I have befriended several crew members from our cruises and they seem to have average middle class type lives. Yes, they work extremely hard and have long shifts, a long time away from home, and are mostly paid with gratuities, but for them it is better than the alternative. Wikipedia is not a good reference for most things.

 

 

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[Kittybork]

It states the following:

"On February 10, 2013, Carnival Triumph, with 3,143 passengers aboard, suffered an engine room fire, leaving the ship adrift for four days in the Gulf of Mexico.[20] The ship was towed to Mobile, Alabama, docking on the evening of February 14.[21][22] In subsequent litigation, Carnival documents were uncovered that revealed multiple generator maintenance problems creating a "disaster waiting to happen." In response, Carnival's court filing takes the position that the contract that passengers agree to when they buy a ticket "makes absolutely no guarantee for safe passage, a seaworthy vessel, adequate and wholesome food, and sanitary and safe living conditions."[23]

 

Do all the other cruise lines claim the same thing? I thought there were government regulations in place to keep these things in order. Isn't a seaworthy vessel what we are all paying for?!

 

Additionally, this makes me sad:

"The company has reportedly been paying wages under $1.50 per hour to employees with low-to-nonexistent benefits, such as holidays or minimal vacations.[14] Monthly salaries of the high paid workers is around $1,300. The crew wages are supplemented by gratuities, and one former Carnival crew member cited that crew receive up to 95% of their income from tips.[15] Employees report strenuous working conditions such as 14-hour shifts with no days off. As of October 2013, they are also revoking retirement benefits."

 

I have a cruise scheduled for the first of April and I'm not sure how I feel about it now. :o

 

Just curious _ Why do you need comfort?

 

 

Also, why would you trust anything on Wiki?

[jimbo5544]

No, I despise him for publishing "alternative facts", half-truths, and outright distortions.

 

 

Amen

 

 

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[Kittybork]

No, I despise him for publishing "alternative facts", half-truths, and outright distortions.

 

Seems extreme

[jennybenny]

This doesn't worry me.

I feel like the cruise lines will do their best to keep passengers safe. If they don't, people will stop cruising and they will go out of business. Accidents happen and I certainly hope they don't happen to me. Some things are very tragic, loss of life for crew or guest.

 

I keep my tips on, I tip extra for exemplary service and I enjoy cruising as much as I can. I will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

 

My step dad is afraid of rogue waves.

Are they real? Yes, am I worried about them on a ship, no. He will not enjoy our vacationing style and thats his choice.

 

You have a choice for how you vacation.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

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[Thorncroft]

Seems extreme

 

 

 

It is. JW speaks the truth in love. LOL

[Carleeb12]

Look at the numerous other threads OP has started and I think you will get your answer.

 

What is wrong with my previous posts? I've been put in charge of planning a cruise for 40 people (many of them first-time cruisers) and am doing my best to find answers for everybody's questions and concerns.

[dan4182]

What is wrong with my previous posts? I've been put in charge of planning a cruise for 40 people (many of them first-time cruisers) and am doing my best to find answers for everybody's questions and concerns.

 

 

You have had 111 posts since you joined CC on 6/28/2016.

 

A sizeable amount of them had either titles or general tones that were critical of Carnival.

 

Suggest you consider Oceania or Crystal as your prospective cruise lines to research!

 

 

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[tallyho8]

Read between the lines people. Wiki states "The company has reportedly been paying wages under $1.50 per hour to employees with low-to-nonexistent benefits, such as holidays or minimal vacations.[14] Monthly salaries of the high paid workers is around $1,300. The crew wages are supplemented by gratuities, and one former Carnival crew member cited that crew receive up to 95% of their income from tips."

If they get 95% of their wages in tips and if 5% of their wages are $1.50 an hour then the 95% is $28.50 giving them $30 an hour and at 12 hours a day is $360 a day and $2520 a week.

If what Wiki states is true, their low wages of $2520 a week sounds pretty good to me.

[Thorncroft]

Read between the lines people. Wiki states "The company has reportedly been paying wages under $1.50 per hour to employees with low-to-nonexistent benefits, such as holidays or minimal vacations.[14] Monthly salaries of the high paid workers is around $1,300. The crew wages are supplemented by gratuities, and one former Carnival crew member cited that crew receive up to 95% of their income from tips."

If they get 95% of their wages in tips and if 5% of their wages are $1.50 an hour then the 95% is $28.50 giving them $30 an hour and at 12 hours a day is $360 a day and $2520 a week.

If what Wiki states is true, their low wages of $2520 a week sounds pretty good to me.

 

They make good money. Don't let anyone fool you.

[seamusdad]

I would cancel if I were you. Yiu are,obviously coming into this vacation with very negative views. I say this not only because of this thread but the others you have started. ..bed bugs, worn out carpets, worst ports, disappointed after cruising on Royal.... glad I'm not on y'alls cruise.

 

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[Kamloops50]

The hourly rate is low due income tax in their home countries. Gratuities are not considered income therefore escape the tax man.

 

 

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[Carleeb12]

I would cancel if I were you. Yiu are,obviously coming into this vacation with very negative views. I say this not only because of this thread but the others you have started. ..bed bugs, worn out carpets, worst ports, disappointed after cruising on Royal.... glad I'm not on y'alls cruise.

 

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Questions are much different than views. I have asked some questions about things, but have not stated opinions. I come here to bounce questions off people who I assume know the industry and the cruise line better than anyone else. Isn't a forum a place to ask questions, as opposed to only offering praise?

[Carleeb12]

You have had 111 posts since you joined CC on 6/28/2016.

 

A sizeable amount of them had either titles or general tones that were critical of Carnival.

 

Suggest you consider Oceania or Crystal as your prospective cruise lines to research!

 

 

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Less than 10 out of 111 have included any sort of concern. I highly doubt anybody would consider that a sizable amount. I am doing my best to relieve the concerns and anxieties of 40 different people and I am simply inquiring about the ship, the cruise line, and the industry from the people who I would assume know it better than anybody else. I have stated hardly any personal views (as opposed to the actual negative reviews I read on here daily), and have simply asked a bunch of questions. I am sorry if I have upset you. That was not my intention.