Warning: Azamara cancels our cruise two days out: Gaurantee is not a guarantee

[DYKWIA]

Read the resolution part of the thread again. This cruise has been given free and $250 OBC. It's not a future cruise credit.

 

Phil

 

I suppose I was waiting for the OP to reveal what it turns out to be - there seemed to be a bit "the cruiseline has promised this". From past experience I am vary wary of promises made by companies in tight situations.

 

Many years ago (pre internet and mobile phones), when one was required to reconfirm your flights, in Singapore 24 hours before the flight, we rang Singapore Airlines to confirm our flight home. We were told there was no record of our booking and the flight was full. Much panic ensued - after several hours of contacting our UK TA, and the airlines we finally received confirmation from both the TA and the airline that Singapore Airlines would be flying us home in First ( we were booked in Business). Anyway we turned up at the airport and no one knew anything about the promises made. Much fretting and finger pointing took place. Finally flew home in two seats that became available due to no shows at the very back of the plane.

[excitedofharpenden]

I suppose I was waiting for the OP to reveal what it turns out to be - there seemed to be a bit "the cruiseline has promised this". From past experience I am vary wary of promises made by companies in tight situations.

Well no, not really. I posted the correction because you mentioned the terrible offer of a future cruise credit, which it isn't. This was posted by Bonnie, the Chief Blogging Officer. It seems pretty clear. I've got no reason to doubt it:

 

I am so sorry about this happening, Lahore. But I am glad we have been able to reinstate your passage on this cruise, and not just with a $250 OBC, the cruise will be complimentary.

Enjoy your well-earned holiday! And I hope you & DH will forgive us.

 

Phil

[azjoy]

For those who are hesitant about booking a “guarantee” or GTY cabin, I’d like to share our experiences. We don’t normally book them but occasionally there’s a cruise that’s toogood to pass up so we’ve done it 4 times with 4 different lines – Seabourn,Silversea, Regent and Oceania. Seabournand Silversea went fine, cabins were assigned well before departure. Regent went even better, contacting us 2months before departure because no one was cancelling. Regent offered us a similar cruise (the onejust before the one we had booked) which was 4 days longer AND a 3 categoryupgrade!

 

And then there was Oceania… 4 days before departure they “offered” us a 1 level upgrade – for $400per person. I thought it was a formemail sent to all who had cabins in that level seeking volunteers to pay forthe upgrade so they could put us in their cabin. Then our TA told us Oceania “required” us torespond. Our response was no. The next day we received another email, requiringa response, lowering the upgrade price to only $300 per person. Obviously, there was a cabin available at thehigher level so we said no and authorized our TA to say no to any other offersrequiring us to pay more. Not surprising- the cabin we eventually received was an upgrade.

 

 

We thought the emails were tacky but chalked it up to HQproblems. Our inconvenience doesn’t evenbegin to compare to what Lahore went through so I hesitated to mention it herebut I just wanted to reassure people who are on the fence about GTY fares –they have worked for us and apparently for others. And we may do itagain if there’s a cruise we want but the cabin category is only available forGTY. But not with Oceania, the service on board was so bad we'll probably never book with them again.

 

 

Along with everyone else, we wish Lahore and her husband a wonderful cruise!

Edited February 9, 2018 by azjoy
corrected typo

[lahore]

Hi all

 

A quick message on my phone, just coming to Tassie.

 

I could write an essay about what I’ve learned since I’ve been on board. That will come later though. At the moment this is just a quick overview of the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

The good: we have settled in nicely, very much enjoying the Azamara product. Our cabin is in a great position. I think we could be addicted, and we are even considering booking our next cruise while we are on board. Thus relating to us in particular Azamara can chalk this one up as a good customer save. Because we have a free cruise we are letting rip with booking the speciality restaurants, Rijstaffel etc. should come back a lot fatter!

 

The bad and the VERY ugly: I won’t name who I have been talking to in order to protect them, but suffice to say I’m certain this is accurate.

 

 

Here it comes: We were not the only people who were bounced. Three other couples turned up at the dock and were not on the ship’s manifest. Not certain i understood the next bit but possibly they got the same bullet call as us but did not answer becuase they were travelling. What more can I say: the horror in that is self-evident. What I don’t know is what type of fare those people had. Clearly there has been some sort of major error in relation to this particular cruise. Many of you have commented that we don’t know what happens to people who are not on CC, and this tells us clearly that there are many who may suffer and we don’t hear about it. It’s my understanding that they have been put up in a hotel in Sydney and are embarking on Holland America on a very similar cruise today. I imagine that as Azamara is paying for that. Can. You. Imagine.

 

 

The ship is traveling at 100% capacity which of course gives staff here no wiggle room whatsoever should passengers need to be moved for some reason.

 

Although everybody I have spoken to on here has acted extremely professionally I am imputing with good reason that there is a great deal of resentment over what happened between the staff on the ship and the Guatemala Centre. And rightly so.

 

I would guess that there is a massive cultural and strategic gap between the actual cruise ships (and presumably senior management) and the overriding head office (RCCL). I don’t understand the history of Azamara VS RCCL, but will be interested to look into it and learn more from you all. BIG strategic and company culture issues evidently. As everybody on here has said once you get on the ship, everything is wonderful. Clearly however, if people (customers AND staff) don’t feel that the support mechanisms are there on land then urgent action is required.

 

I must go now, sorry to deliver that bad news but I felt I owe that honesty to thus board. If I had a GTY with Azamara I’d be riding it very assertively.

 

Cheers for now, time to go on deck.

Edited February 9, 2018 by lahore

[spy53]

Jo,

You’re getting me panicked now.

How do they choose who they kick off the cruise?

Had four friends who made the journey from Australia to Honolulu to be told at the ship as they were checking in, that their "guaranteed" cabin was not available. Imagine the panic. One of the couples was allowed on board, the others weren't. There were six people that they knew about who were told at that time that there was no room available. That was RCL. Not good enough. Chasing the compensation they were offered has proved 'interesting'.

 

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[magpiemum]

We booked a guarantee cabin with Azamara sailing the 7th March Sydney to Singapore it's the first leg of the world cruise. We have been given a cabin number but after reading all the posts I am a bit worried it could happen to us if they get people wanting to book a cabin for the world cruise . We will just have to wait and see. This will be our 5th cruise with Azamara

 

 

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[NSWP]

All I can say is...'A PR disaster for Oceanic Cruises' re GTY bookings not fulfilled.:o

[mwj]

Under the RCL board on this forum, look for a thread titled 'Guaranteed Cabin NOT Guaranteed'.

 

Here is a snippet,

"Miami HQ just called and confirmed that they can and do cancel people's cruises who have a "guaranteed" stateroom all the time and in some cases it is done on the actual day of embarkation. RC have an algorithm to determine who gets cancelled."

[edgee]

Under the RCL board on this forum, look for a thread titled 'Guaranteed Cabin NOT Guaranteed'.

 

Here is a snippet,

"Miami HQ just called and confirmed that they can and do cancel people's cruises who have a "guaranteed" stateroom all the time and in some cases it is done on the actual day of embarkation. RC have an algorithm to determine who gets cancelled."

 

I wonder if part of any algorithm as to whom gets cancelled relates to whether they booked through a TA or through a direct booking with the cruise line and whether if the passenger booked through a TA who does high volume with the cruise line has less of a chance of being cancelled?

[rallydave]

Well, so much for the cheerleaders who believed this was a human error or one time happening. If it hasn't been obvious in the past several months with all the continued issues from the home office and the continued problems even after the home office is called out and yet the same games are played again and again, this latest information so to say could sink the ship.

 

IMHO, it is painfully obvious these issues that have had people leaving azamara and now the ultimate your "GUARANTEED" booking has been cancelled are not human errors or accidental. And, now the information that they even have an algorithm in place to choose those who will be out of luck even as they try to board the ship. These revelations could impact the bottom line that they are trying to improve with horrid consequences to the paying customers.

[CoasterGuy]

Thank you so much for the information. Gonna look into other lines now.

[Lenliner]

Thanks Lahore for your reports. A REAL Heads Up! I'm Unamazed with Azamara. Don't know if I would reward that line by booking another cruise with them though. Have a nice cruise, you really deserve it!

[upwarduk]

I wonder if part of any algorithm as to whom gets cancelled relates to whether they booked through a TA or through a direct booking with the cruise line and whether if the passenger booked through a TA who does high volume with the cruise line has less of a chance of being cancelled?

 

Or maybe 1st time cruisers ( or not, to encourage future bookings?)

LCV members at the bottom of the ‘bumped list?’

—————?

[uktog]

 

I would guess that there is a massive cultural and strategic gap between the actual cruise ships (and presumably senior management) and the overriding head office (RCCL). I don’t understand the history of Azamara VS RCCL, but will be interested to look into it and learn more from you all. BIG strategic and company culture issues evidently. .

 

 

Firstly thanks for checking back in and I hope your cruise continues to be a good one for you.

 

You have absolutely nailed the issues in my view.

If it wasn’t for the onboard staff and individuals in the UK office plus Nicole we would be long long gone. However even these goodly folks cannot keep covering over what is systemic, deep rooted and culture.

 

How can you have such diametrically opposed cultures and succeed one where attention to detail and customer first is the driver the other seems to be bottom line only and mistakes are OK. Our upcoming cruises have been a succession of silly mistakes. I don’t want to be checking every detail contacting Nicole or Richards team every five minutes I expect for the price some accuracy and reliability.

 

I also expect accurate PR and itineraries that will, barring unforeseen circumstances, be delivered. Our previous cruise and our summer one were/are victims of that.

 

Maybe we were seen as cheerleaders, people Azamara were so sure of our loyalty but since thus drift between ship and shore got wider and wider our ship is now sailing. We both spent a lot of time working on the delivery of culture change programs so we know any reversal will be incredibly slow and challenging. We hope for those we care about on Azamara that will however be quick enough, yes we hear again and again about best years sales ever, but at what price and for how long.

 

 

 

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[excitedofharpenden]

Thanks for checking in and letting us know you are safely onboard and enjoying your cruise. Really bad others have been let down and couldn't board the ship. I am very disappointed to read that. I now wonder how often this is happening with the obvious "fill the ship" policy of Azamara? I've certainly learned I'd never book a guarantee cabin. I think I might have only done that once and it was a few years ago. Not now would I risk it.

 

I hope you are chilled down a little and you have a wonderful free cruise!

 

Phil

[excitedofharpenden]

Well, so much for the cheerleaders who believed this was a human error or one time happening. If it hasn't been obvious in the past several months with all the continued issues from the home office and the continued problems even after the home office is called out and yet the same games are played again and again, this latest information so to say could sink the ship.

 

IMHO, it is painfully obvious these issues that have had people leaving azamara and now the ultimate your "GUARANTEED" booking has been cancelled are not human errors or accidental. And, now the information that they even have an algorithm in place to choose those who will be out of luck even as they try to board the ship. These revelations could impact the bottom line that they are trying to improve with horrid consequences to the paying customers.

Dave, I understand your viewpoint. You have made it very clear of what you think of Azamara and that you’d never sail with them again. Yet here you are, back here with the "told you so" attitude that really isn’t very helpful. I’d have packed up and moved on by now. It wouldn’t be worth my time.

 

I’m not sure what the true meaning of the term "cheerleader" is. If it’s that there are some who believe no wrong can be done then I think they are few and far between here. I’d like to say most regular posters here are better than that and will point out the negatives as well as the good stuff.

 

I will also say that I agree with some of your points, but there doesn’t seem to be a constructive goal, except to prove that you were right all along (assuming of course that you were!). I’d have moved on. Life is too short.

 

Phil

[Grandma Cruising]

Well, so much for the cheerleaders who believed this was a human error or one time happening. If it hasn't been obvious in the past several months with all the continued issues from the home office and the continued problems even after the home office is called out and yet the same games are played again and again, this latest information so to say could sink the ship.

 

IMHO, it is painfully obvious these issues that have had people leaving azamara and now the ultimate your "GUARANTEED" booking has been cancelled are not human errors or accidental. And, now the information that they even have an algorithm in place to choose those who will be out of luck even as they try to board the ship. These revelations could impact the bottom line that they are trying to improve with horrid consequences to the paying customers.

 

 

 

Note that the algorithm is RCCL’s, not Azamara’s, so presumably affects every ship within the RCCL group -RCCL , Celebrity, Azamara & Pullmantur. I think it likely that a similar system applies on all Carnival group ships - Carnival, HAL, Costa and Aida.

Most air companies also overbook and have to bump passengers.

 

This doesn’t make it any better, it’s a horrible situation for anyone to find themselves in - but it does mean it’s not a good reason to only lambast Azamara, rather than disliking systems where global companies do their utmost to extract every penny from their operations.

 

 

 

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Edited February 10, 2018 by Host Grandma Cruising

[uktog]

Note that the algorithm is RCCL’s, not Azamara’s, so presumably affects every ship within the RCCL group -RCCL , Celebrity, Azamara & Pullmantur. I think it likely that a similar system applies on all Carnival group ships - Carnival, HAL, Costa and Aida.

Most air companies also overbook and have to bump passengers.

 

This doesn’t make it any better, it’s a horrible situation for anyone to find themselves in - but it does mean it’s not a good reason to only lambast Azamara, rather than disliking systems where global companies do their utmost to extract every penny from their operations.

 

 

 

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I agree with Excited of Harpenden in terms of moving on even if it’s moving out but I cannot accept overbooking on the scale now reported on a premium cruise line.

Firstly to compare it to a flight situation is Apple and pears, alternative flights are usually readily available of an equivalent standard.

Secondly just because Royal and Celebrity do it doesn’t justify Azamara doing it, after all again and again they try and make out they are different, better. Well in the past that has certainly been true. The gap though is narrowing fast in everything but prices which are widening all the time.

If there has been a stuff up affecting 6+ guests on one cruise that’s a big issue best solved by removing the guarantee category or using it only to indicate actual cabin is not guaranteed, passage is.

 

 

 

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[Riocca]

One of the things we have learned from this is that overbooking is now rife in the cruise industry and it affects many cruise lines. What has been mentioned is that Royal Caribbean have an algorithm and seem to apply this across all their brands now, Princess have regularly offered move over offers as have Oceania so it possibly happens within other brands within their respective corporations. I can remember the previous CEO of Crystal proudly announcing that many of their cruises were overbooked not too long ago.

Bottom line is that it’s a competitive industry and to control prices cruise lines need to fill their ships, many customers are now waiting for the last minute desperation offers maybe this is the cruise lines way of combating this. For last minute “Guarantee” now read Waitlist.

 

 

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[uktog]

So sell it as waitlist with a guaranteed cut off point. But I’d also say might you not have a competitive edge if you sold it as guaranteed sailing but did not overbook. The type of passenger Azamara claimed to be seeking would value that over being a risky standby.

Just saying

 

 

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[Riocca]

So sell it as waitlist with a guaranteed cut off point. But I’d also say might you not have a competitive edge if you sold it as guaranteed sailing but did not overbook. The type of passenger Azamara claimed to be seeking would value that over being a risky standby.

Just saying

 

 

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Totally agree Ann, can’t condone overbooking whether on cruises or flights.

Don’t think that Azamara have control of this, all the RC brands have a common booking engine and the algorithm is applied irrespective of brand. From lahore’s post there seems to be a dislike of this practice amongst the (presumably senior) staff onboard.

 

 

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[nordski]

One of the things we have learned from this is that overbooking is now rife in the cruise industry and it affects many cruise lines. What has been mentioned is that Royal Caribbean have an algorithm and seem to apply this across all their brands now, Princess have regularly offered move over offers as have Oceania so it possibly happens within other brands within their respective corporations. I can remember the previous CEO of Crystal proudly announcing that many of their cruises were overbooked not too long ago.

Bottom line is that it’s a competitive industry and to control prices cruise lines need to fill their ships, many customers are now waiting for the last minute desperation offers maybe this is the cruise lines way of combating this. For last minute “Guarantee” now read Waitlist.

 

 

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Agree. There are many stories on "moving over" offers on various forums. One of these we have personally encountered.

 

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but one of the primary problems in this case was the very short notification.

 

Either this was a basic failure in the design of the algorithm, or there were exceptional circumstances that led to the disaster.

 

In either case, Azamara needs to up its response should such an issue recur. Especially they need to address the issues of compensation and a to have a more proactive response for the passengers involved. Perhaps special training for the person assigned this task would be useful.

 

In the best of worlds this event would not take place but, as you have pointed, out business practices are evolving. If memory serves, airlines had a rather bad reputation for overbooking some years ago. We experienced this on a flight to Athens. It seems rarer now, perhaps because their algorithms have improved and/or because the bad publicity necessitated change. The cruise industry may well have to institute new practices and policies.

 

In a more positive light, perhaps Azamara's failure in this instance suggests a lack of experience in what has not been a common occurrence.

[Grandma Cruising]

Actually the more I think about it, the less sense it seems to make for Azamara to be overbooked, even from a pure profit making point of view.

I can see that on the large RCCL ships it makes sense to try and make sure every cabin is occupied. Those passengers not only generate a profit from the price they pay for the cruise, they often spend considerable amounts on board buying drinks, coffees and paying gratuities. This is very much less the case with Azamara, where many spend very little once onboard. If a cabin on Azamara is overbooked and you end up providing a free cruise as happened to lahore, or end up buying cruises from another line, that must quickly diminish your profits from the ‘full’ cabins.

 

 

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[jo-b]

Can I reiterate that it is not only Guarantee cabins that can get bumped at short notice this has happened to a relative with a booked cabin from day one, at even less notice than Lahore's case.

 

And it is not just Azamara many examples of many cruise lines. And all within contract terms, and who of us actually has read those in detail?

 

Why it happens is a mystery given that all final payments are made 3 months out from sail date. Before that date, I know that the US passengers having the ability to cancel without losing deposits makes inventory management difficult, there have been many posts on different boards we read from people who have multiple cruises "held" just in case. Add in the large cruise consolidators who seem to be able to hold onto cabins even longer than final payment date and chaos ensues.

 

And the cruise lines need the cabins occupied not just sold, it is onboard purchases that give the profit.

 

As to the HO /onboard disconnect none of the lines we have travelled on seem to have this right. The back office staff lack knowledge, and seem constrained as to what they can and cannot do. This, unfortunately, now seems to be spreading to shipboard staff who "have to ask Miami" before they can act in too many cases.

 

From a monetary point of view it adds to the argument always to have good travel insurance for non cruise related expenditure. Although i do wonder whether all policies would cover these losses as policy cover becomes more and more restrictive.

[Riocca]

Actually the more I think about it, the less sense it seems to make for Azamara to be overbooked, even from a pure profit making point of view.

I can see that on the large RCCL ships it makes sense to try and make sure every cabin is occupied. Those passengers not only generate a profit from the price they pay for the cruise, they often spend considerable amounts on board buying drinks, coffees and paying gratuities. This is very much less the case with Azamara, where many spend very little once onboard. If a cabin on Azamara is overbooked and you end up providing a free cruise as happened to lahore, or end up buying cruises from another line, that must quickly diminish your profits from the ‘full’ cabins.

 

 

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This is very true, however we all know how poor the IT systems are and I doubt the algorithm in the booking engine is intelligent enough to differentiate between Royal Caribbean and Azamara.

 

 

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