Exclusive lounges = elitism?

[MadManOfBethesda]

It all depends on what you're paying for your cruise fare.

 

Your reply to my comment doesn't make much sense. The price I paid is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that the cost of the 4 perks was $450pp as I explained. But if it will help you understand the situation better, I'll provide you with the specifics of the cruise fare. I had a choice of booking a sky suite without any perks for $2,549pp, or booking with all 4 perks for $2,999pp, a $450pp difference.

 

So as I said before, since I was getting $150obc, plus $238 for the tips I would have been paying anyway, the total cost of the premium beverage pkg and the unlimited WiFi for 14 days was $62.

 

Now given that I had already stated in my initial post that there was a $450 cost for the 4 perks, perhaps you can explain how knowing the specific cruise fares involved was in any way relevant.

[Bo1953]

I agree...many generalizations......SOME is the operative word here....."Clearly, the majority want these changes (or Celebrity think they do) so those of us who don’t want them must adapt or find another line."

Profit line dictates, along with following SOME other cruise lines' policies which are showing increased patronage over time. Change is not a result of SOME who want SOME change....I don't think it is always the majority's opinion or was there a poll taken I missed?

 

o - It could be an accumulation of comments from the after sailing survey taken.

 

bon voyage

[miched]

I think the OP wants to live in a socialistic society or world. Wake up and look around. It doesn’t work.

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

[Ma Bell]

Your reply to my comment doesn't make much sense. The price I paid is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that the cost of the 4 perks was $450pp as I explained. But if it will help you understand the situation better, I'll provide you with the specifics of the cruise fare. I had a choice of booking a sky suite without any perks for $2,549pp, or booking with all 4 perks for $2,999pp, a $450pp difference.

 

So as I said before, since I was getting $150obc, plus $238 for the tips I would have been paying anyway, the total cost of the premium beverage pkg and the unlimited WiFi for 14 days was $62.

 

Now given that I had already stated in my initial post that there was a $450 cost for the 4 perks, perhaps you can explain how knowing the specific cruise fares involved was in any way relevant.

 

I got your numbers the first time. If you don't know the relevance of the price of the cruise I doubt I could explain it to you. The cost of some of your perks was built into your cruise fare. Unless they're stupid, the only people who would book without the 4 perks are people who don't drink ( or don't drink much) don't use wi-fi or already have these things included because of their loyalty status. It's just playing with numbers.

[Bo1953]

The truth is the passengers themselves complained that dinner took too long, they wanted anytime dining so they didn't have to sit with strangers and could eat and run, they wanted everything to be casual, no dressing up, they wanted free drink packages and internet, they wanted loud music etc, etc, etc. Basically, they didn't want an old fashioned cruise experience

 

Do you think these things just might have had some effect on the experience one receives on board now? How could the ambiance and service possibly be the same as it used to be? That's not what the people wanted. Why would a cruise line think they need to provide an upscale, quality experience when they are convinced an all inclusive resort experience will do. Think about it.

 

After thinking about it for 45 seconds, I have come to the conclusion that we can either move up or move down or move across the sailing spectrum to get what we believe we want if X is not adequately providing it at the price point we are willing to pay.

 

For us, X offers the right mix. I sometimes bring a Tux if there is a special occasion to be celebrated during the sailing, always up-grade the beverage package, take a mix of ship sponsored or private tours, always do Anytime Dining for greater flexibility in eating, even if there is a wait from time to time.

 

An AI resort offers all, if not most of these features, with the possible exception of 'Formal/Chic' nights, yet at night they do have a dress code for dining venues.

 

I accept the fact that there are many who want it like it use to be, yet that ship has sailed and will not be back in port for a long time on X, yet there are a few lines that will provide it the way it use to be. Just depends on how you want it, for sure.

 

Change will always be in the offing and fluid, we can either accept it and enjoy, complain and/or ask for modification or move on to a line which we think is better and embraces the presentation we seek. By no means do we have to accept it.

 

 

Service and ambience is always going to be a moving target, even amoungst passengers on the same sailing..

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

There is one element besides getting what one pays for. It is also if ones experience is negatively impacted by the change.

 

There is one difference between the movement of cruise lines to having tiers of service and hotels and airlines.

 

On a cruise ship the space is a fixed quantity. When Celebrity created the additional dining rooms and made Michaels a private club they reduced the amount of public space on the ship available to everyone else. When you pay for the concierge floor in a hotel the hotel has not reduced the amount of public space. The coach seat and services on an airplane is the same if first class exists or not.

 

So if you compare Celebrity prior to making the changes to Celebrity today the passengers not in the special categories are a little worse off in what they get than they did prior to the changes. They lost some public space, the MD tables are more crowded, etc.

 

To put it in context it would be the equivalent if an airline where to make a change where now 1/2 of the seats in the gate area were only for 1st and business class. The others would be negatively impacted by having the seats available to them be reduced.

 

Actually, to put it into better context, those of us who travel 1st and business class on airlines, usually have a 'private' non-public lounge to retire to until boarding. Same for Suite guests, they have a private lounge and dining rooms available to them, which do not impact the rest of us, generally, with the exception of those who believe they should have access to it all rather they paid for it or not.

 

 

Quite egalitarian to say the least...

 

bon voyage

[Mynki]

I sometimes think of it differently - if they are paying so much of a premium for the suites but still share most activities, why not go on a luxury line?

 

Price, itinerary, ship amenities, demographics, cabin size, entertainment or lack of.

[justcrusn]

Think about theme parks for a moment. If you go to Universal Studios, you can buy “express pass” and go to the front of the line. OR NOT.

It’s your choice really.

 

On the cruise we are currently interested in, we can purchase:

1 a standard verandah for about $1,000 pp

2. An Aqua verandah for about $1,500 pp

3. A suite for about $3,000 pp

 

Now, assuming you have $3,000 to spend (we do)

We can cruise 3x in a regular verandah, 2x time in aqua, or 1x in a suite for that amount. We are CHOOSING the aqua, but theres no right or wrong answer, its up to the buyer. I, for one am glad i can select the level of service i wish and pay accordingly.

I dont see any elitism involved.

YMMV

[NHCRUISIN]

If you take away these perks from people paying a premium for suites the value of a suite will go down and they will pay less.

Would you be willing to pay $250-300 more for a standard room in order to have access to Luminae and Michaels ?

My guess is most would not.

 

 

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[Globehoppers]

Cruise lines/ships are a for-profit business. Period. They will do whatever it takes to get your money for the least service or least benefit to you. In addition, making it confusing to compare prices of cabins, perks, etc., helps them in acquiring your money.

 

During the era of Ocean Liners you had the choice of First, Second or Third (steerage) class. Never the three met. Each class restricted to their respective areas of the ship, their restaurants, their entertainment, etc. Today this is still available on a very few select ships. Mostly cruise lines attempt to recreate the fantasy that you are "First Class" and others are not through special restaurants carved out of MDRs, through special events, and also through restricting access to parts of the ship. All okay. What is not so "Okay" is the marketing that they produce enticing you to "up-buy" for minimal service, like similar cabins one with a "special" roped off area in the MDR for which they add $400-500pp. Same food prepared by the same chefs. The latest tactic is to overcharge then offer discounts, or the infamous BOGO sale for the second "guest" in a cabin where the price is more than double the original price per guest. But then again, its all "mass market" and whatever the mark (guest) will pay. Much prefer them just being honest and up front with costs/prices for what you get.

 

Azamara (part of RCCL like Celebrity) is apparently looking at restricting access to areas of the ship by cabin. Today it is essentially "classless" in that everyone is treated similarly whether in a suite or inside cabin. Suite "guests" do get unlimited access to the specialty restaurants, but they are not restricted to suites. Changing the "classless" culture of the ship will likely drive us away from Azamara.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Globehoppers

[cruzeluver]

I have not personally experienced anything like elitism with regards to this topic. Anyone tacky enough to lord their special privileges over others would probably get ignored pretty quickly.

 

I think cruise lines are just trying to stay profitable and this is a way to do that. Offer a reasonable base fare, and then let people pay for the additional perks and benefits that work for them. Personally I like it because I don't want to pay for services, special accesses etc. but happy to let others do so. And like anything else in life, there is a segment of the population that likes to feel above others or have that feeling of exclusivity, but like I said, I have not witnessed any blatant elitism unless you count the handful I have seen who always manage to bring their loyalty status into any conversation. That does become a bit tiresome.

[Bo1953]

I have not personally experienced anything like elitism with regards to this topic. Anyone tacky enough to lord their special privileges over others would probably get ignored pretty quickly.

 

I think cruise lines are just trying to stay profitable and this is a way to do that. Offer a reasonable base fare, and then let people pay for the additional perks and benefits that work for them. Personally I like it because I don't want to pay for services, special accesses etc. but happy to let others do so. And like anything else in life, there is a segment of the population that likes to feel above others or have that feeling of exclusivity, but like I said, I have not witnessed any blatant elitism unless you count the handful I have seen who always manage to bring their loyalty status into any conversation. That does become a bit tiresome.

 

LOL or CC signature....

 

I agree with you... I do not recollect talking with anyone who invoked their status during a conversation, unless I just ignored the statement as soon as it was spouted.

 

 

bon voyage

[Silkroad]

If you take away these perks from people paying a premium for suites the value of a suite will go down and they will pay less.

Would you be willing to pay $250-300 more for a standard room in order to have access to Luminae and Michaels ?

My guess is most would not.

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People typically pay significantly more for an Aqua cabin for access to Blu, so I don’t see why not.

[mek]

So I'm now wearing my devils advocate hat.

 

Do you think those people who are rubbed up the wrong way by this are being petty?

 

No, but I think in general they are probably the ones who also believe in participation trophies.

[ronews]

I think the OP wants to live in a socialistic society or world. Wake up and look around. It doesn’t work.

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

 

Exactly right. Ever notice that these leftist Social Justice Warriors start out arguments by labelling people without any concrete evidence. Bigot, Racist, Homophobe, or "Elitist" etc

[Silkroad]

I have not witnessed any blatant elitism unless you count the handful I have seen who always manage to bring their loyalty status into any conversation. That does become a bit tiresome.

 

I don’t mind people talking about their loyalty status, unless they’re also shoving their way to the front of the queue to demand instant gratification because they’re Elite or above (thankfully have only rarely seen this). In fact, I’d much rather discuss loyalty status than politics:cool:

[rollie]

We just booked our first suite a few weeks ago. After reading this thread I think we will cancel our booking. NOT

 

Rollie

[excitedofharpenden]

Azamara (part of RCCL like Celebrity) is apparently looking at restricting access to areas of the ship by cabin. Today it is essentially "classless" in that everyone is treated similarly whether in a suite or inside cabin. Suite "guests" do get unlimited access to the specialty restaurants, but they are not restricted to suites. Changing the "classless" culture of the ship will likely drive us away from Azamara.

They sent out a survey asking questions about a new cabin category with suggestions of what it might entail. That was all. If the responses to that survey mirror what was said on the Cruise Critic board then I can't see anything substantial happening. Azamara's Chief Blogging Officer posted the following after a pretty much "no thanks" debate here:

 

Your passion about Azamara is appreciated! :hearteyes:

I have shared your comments with senior management.

 

 

On a larger ship like Celebrity you have the space to create areas reserved for certain guests. I don't have an issue with it and it doesn't rub me up the wrong way. Fortunately I have lots of choices out there.

 

Phil

[Mynki]

I meet many, many people in Suites in Michael's Club. Only met one or two who were snobs. Very rarely does anyone talk about their cabin. I haven't been in a Suite since Luminae and heard stories about some who resent Zeniths sharing their private lounge, but I've never experienced this behavior. People are people and labels often cloud thinking.

 

When you consider the commitment needed to attain Zenith status I think they deserve access to MC. The commitment isn't just financial, you must give up a significant percentage of your available vacation time to achieve it. Allowing them access seems very fair to me. Lord knows they've paid for it.

[Orator]

Some people just don't want to see Celebrity as a for profit business and as such must do whatever it takes to attract and keep its highest margin passengers. Those annoying little things called "facts" would indicate that they are doing this quite nicely. Suites are selling more quickly and at substantially higher prices since they've added perks like Michael's Club access and Luminae. Unless you booked very early it is difficult to get a Royal Suite, Penthouse, Signature Suite, or Reflection Suite for most cruises. They are full and contributing to the bottom line. If the trend continues I would expect even more perks to be added to Suite amenities. The Edge already has a "private" deck. Look for more to come!

[I_r_a]

Hey Jc,

 

>getting the privilege of not having to share a space with your fellow passengers bugs me a little. Am I the only one?

 

Yes, you are the only one, because you are the sort of person that those who pay extra do not wish to have to associate with. :)

 

Ira

[cruzeluver]

Exactly right. Ever notice that these leftist Social Justice Warriors start out arguments by labelling people without any concrete evidence. Bigot, Racist, Homophobe, or "Elitist" etc

Thanks for the chuckle from one of those leftist social justice warriors you just labeled. ;p

[C-Dragons]

I got your numbers the first time. If you don't know the relevance of the price of the cruise I doubt I could explain it to you. The cost of some of your perks was built into your cruise fare. Unless they're stupid, the only people who would book without the 4 perks are people who don't drink ( or don't drink much) don't use wi-fi or already have these things included because of their loyalty status. It's just playing with numbers.

 

This ^ 👍🏻

Nothing is ever “free”, period.

[Mynki]

I am not and most likely never will be a suite passenger, but my guess is that the same size suite cabin on a luxury line would come at a much higher cost. Perhaps frequent suite consumers can comment on this.

 

 

You might be surprised. Celebrity have been developing and improving their vision of suite life for a few years now and charging accordingly.

 

If you compare suite pricing against genuine 6* luxury lines Celebrity can actually look poor value.

 

That said, there are a lot of factors to consider. I looked at Seabourn because it's an all suite ship and looked better value than Celebrity on some similar itineraries. But... I then visited a couple of ports where I saw Seabourn passengers enjoying their excursions. It became immediately apparent to me that I'll enjoy sailing on that line 20 to 25 years from now and I fully intend too! So as I said above, there are several considerations such as demographics etc.

[Luvcrusn]

On our most recent cruise, while dining in Blu one evening, we struck up a conversation with a nice older couple from Canada. They were amazingly friendly, outgoing and warm, in fact they initiated the conversation. We found out (not through them) that they were staying in a top suite, and had long passed zenith status. You'd have never guessed, especially since I saw them dining in Blu most evenings and not in Luminae (I never asked why...none of my business!). We just thoroughly enjoyed their company and getting to know them.