Exclusive lounges = elitism?

[Orator]

Dear OP

I might be taking a B2B cruise on Infinity where I book an OV cabin. If you are on the same cruises I feel that you should give me complete access to your balcony since I don't want to fight the chair hogs. I can't tolerate all the "Elitists" who just don't want us lowly OV passengers to enjoy their balcony.

[ronews]

Dear OP

I might be taking a B2B cruise on Infinity where I book an OV cabin. If you are on the same cruises I feel that you should give me complete access to your balcony since I don't want to fight the chair hogs. I can't tolerate all the "Elitists" who just don't want us lowly OV passengers to enjoy their balcony.

 

 

One's that use words such as "Elitists" remind me of Social Justice Warriors. Dangerous people with a very narrow scope that have not known hardship but want to find a cause.

[HeddaGarbled]

When I first started looking at cruises, I looked at Cunard, because I'm British and in Britain, Cunard has this status as the pinnacle of traditional cruising. But I was really put off by the overt 'tiering' of passengers which, yes, I think does hark back to the class structure of the Titanic and the classic age of cruising. Of course, now, it isn't just class that dictates your tier - if you can afford it, you can buy into the top tier.

 

What I liked about Celebrity was that it seemed much more democratic, relaxed, less snobby. "Modern luxury" sounds right to me. Of course, people will pay extra for better rooms, more expensive drinks, speciality restaurants etc and some of those things might come with perks such as butlers and priority queuing and whatnot. But I do feel that the 'tiering' is teetering at the point of making the experience of cruising considerably less pleasant for those of us who can't afford the suites and Aqua.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

I can sort of see what you are getting at. When I have my slightly mathematical head on I think, OK so you buy a week in a standard approx 200 square foot type cabin you pay X amount. If you go for an approx 400 square foot cabin you should pay X (x 2) and for the best suites of 600 square feet or 1200 square feet you should pay for that space in the same way. But why should you also get extra perks and private lounges?? You already have all that extra room so why reduce the rest of the facilities for everyone??

 

But, I get it. It is the way it is. So I accept it.

 

Because the price of a suite is not a multiplication of $ X sq ft. If they were, the price would not be that much more. Suites are considerably more $ per sq ft. than other cabins.

[warmwinds]

I guess you get what you pay for. Certainly doesn’t sit well with me as an Aussie. Also dont like the fact that they’ve used to push up the price of some locations.

 

Maybe allow you to add it for a cost to any cabin location.

 

I've never flown to/from Australia, so I'm truly curious:

 

Your airlines (Qantas, whoever) do not have First and Business class, as well as coach? All seats are the same?

 

Your hotels do not have executive lounges which you have access to if you either have high status (read: stay a lot, spend a lot) or outright spend more for per night?

[Host Jazzbeau]

DW and I were just talking about what makes a cruise really enjoyable for us, and when it comes to the cabin we really don't need a huge amount of space (although it's nice). The two things we want are: really good food, and a proper dining table in our cabin for breakfast (the only time we use room service). On Celebrity, that means a CS or higher (to get Luminae and the table). We can get the food on a premium or luxury line in any cabin, but to get the table we are still limited to one of the top cabins (and the price for a top cabin on a luxury line makes any suite on Celebrity a bargain) -- that's why some suite passengers stay with Celebrity. It has nothing to do with avoiding the masses (we won't use the loungers in the Retreat on Edge any more than we lie out on our balcony). So you really can't make generalizations and judge people (or you shouldn't, anyway).

[Silkroad]

@HeddaGarbled - One could buy into the top tier then as well.

 

Reading the posts on this thread, I truly don’t understand this angst about Aqua and suite perks, and I was raised believing that everyone should have equal access to public resources, have equal legal rights, and receive equal treatment. (Of course, any woman, person of color, LGBT person, disabled person, or aged person knows such lofty concepts haven’t been fully integrated into society or manifested in everyday life.)

 

Celebrity is a business, and they’re constantly trying to keep their current customers happy while also attracting new customers. They wouldn’t make changes if they thought they’d lose market share. If their changes are unpopular, they’ll do something different.

 

I’m reserving judgement on the new suite spaces on Edge until I board her, check out the infinite veranda in my Concierge cabin, and explore the ship for 15 lovely days.

[NantahalaCruiser]

Luminae plus Blu is what I was thinking of, but I might have been too generous in my estimate. Can we agree that it’s at least a quarter?

 

And the speciality restaurants are both a plus and a minus in that they are a nice change from the MDR if one is seeking that, but again, a scarce resource (waiters and space) is being used in a greater ratio to the passengers served.

 

I miss the larger amount of space between the tables that used to exist in the MDR, and the number of waiters, assistant waiters, sommeliers and bar staff that used to be available. If there was some magical way that the ships themselves could have been made bigger, and more staff added, then I wouldn’t mind the spaces reserved for suite and Aqua passengers. (I don’t begrudge Michael’s Club for suites - that was always an underused space anyway. It’s nice to see it serving a useful purpose.)

 

I miss having sommeliers who have a moment to help with wine selection and can actually bring the wine before we’re halfway though the main course. I miss having waiters who can take a minute to get to know the passengers and their preferences, or show the kids a magic trick.

There is no magic involved in staffing - Celebrity has made a conscious business decision to decrease the staff to customer ratio in the MDR just as they made the decision to reduce cabin steward staffing. It would have happened regardless of Blu and Luminae.

[spookyfudge]

It's probably not specific to Celebrity, but I'll use them as the example: if you pay for a certain category of room you get access to restaurants or lounges that are off limits to the other passengers.

 

Does this rub anyone else the wrong way?

 

I have no problem with paying more for a room or a meal and getting a better room/meal....but getting the privilege of not having to share a space with your fellow passengers bugs me a little. Am I the only one?

 

My thought, if you cant pay, dont play. This keeps people who are their to party away from vacationers with familes that want a quite and enjoyable cruise, so I am all for it!

[George C]

Anybody can go to micheals or suite restaurant , just book a suite, seems like people want something for nothing. We now book suites , when I started cruising this perks did not exist, was very happy with inside cabins in the days before balconies and specialty restaurants. Some people like upscale houses and cars others like us spend extra on suites and first class air.

[bigbenboys]

We have done just over 50 cruises. We have cruised on a number of cruise lines and have booked inside to sky suites. I'm turning 60 this year and retired at 58. In the past we had been cruising 3 to 5 times a year. When Celebrity added sky suites access to MC we started booking sky suites. I really enjoy the Suite Life Celebrity offers. We are now booking 2 to 3 cruises a year in sky suites. We are also adding land stays before and after our cruises. When we fly we book 1st or business class. We see ourselves as jeans wearing low maintains people. We book hotels with executive lounges. We get breakfast, bottles water, soda, evening appetizers and drinks. But we don't normally go out to dinner when staying at a hotel with executive lounges. Saving us money.

Our last cruise we cruised with friends. They booked Aqua, so we booked Aqua. They booked economy plus, so we booked the same. I did wonder if I would feel left out because not having access to MC or Luminae. Our cruise was great. I really dont think I missed the perks.

There are almost always be people with more money and people with less money. It should be more about how you treat others and how others treat you.

[Mike981]

There are almost always be people with more money and people with less money. It should be more about how you treat others and how others treat you.

 

Amen

[hughdm]

We have been on four Celebrity cruises and have been in suites every time. We have appreciated the addition of Michael's Club and Luminae. We once booked one of the largest suites on a Carnival ship. We got a huge cabin but nothing else. It wasn't worth the extra money and we haven't done it again. We enjoy the pampering and are willing to pay for it to escape our day to day life for a week or so. It's not just the extra space.

[RDC1]

There is one element besides getting what one pays for. It is also if ones experience is negatively impacted by the change.

 

There is one difference between the movement of cruise lines to having tiers of service and hotels and airlines.

 

On a cruise ship the space is a fixed quantity. When Celebrity created the additional dining rooms and made Michaels a private club they reduced the amount of public space on the ship available to everyone else. When you pay for the concierge floor in a hotel the hotel has not reduced the amount of public space. The coach seat and services on an airplane is the same if first class exists or not.

 

So if you compare Celebrity prior to making the changes to Celebrity today the passengers not in the special categories are a little worse off in what they get than they did prior to the changes. They lost some public space, the MD tables are more crowded, etc.

 

To put it in context it would be the equivalent if an airline where to make a change where now 1/2 of the seats in the gate area were only for 1st and business class. The others would be negatively impacted by having the seats available to them be reduced.

[Jchivers]

For you, a verandah is an absolute necessity and you're willing to pay more for it. For me, not having to wait in lines is an absolute necessity, and that's why I'm paying for a suite....

You're willing to pay extra for more cabin space and a balcony, but the additional amenities that come with a suite apparently aren't as important to you on a cost/benefit basis. I'm willing to pay more for those added amenities because they are of paramount importance to me.

 

Very eloquently stated.

 

I would also like to clarify that I don't think the passengers who choose to take advantage of these exclusive areas are guilty of elitism; I think my issue is with the cruise line that promotes the attitude.

[grandgeezer]

It's not elitism as defined in the dictionary, by why let the facts get in the way of the truth. If you want to blame someone for this situation blame the cruise line. Your fellow passengers are just using the product sold to them, as they see some value in it.

[Ma Bell]

The truth is the passengers themselves complained that dinner took too long, they wanted anytime dining so they didn't have to sit with strangers and could eat and run, they wanted everything to be casual, no dressing up, they wanted free drink packages and internet, they wanted loud music etc, etc, etc. Basically, they didn't want an old fashioned cruise experience

 

Do you think these things just might have had some effect on the experience one receives on board now? How could the ambiance and service possibly be the same as it used to be? That's not what the people wanted. Why would a cruise line think they need to provide an upscale, quality experience when they are convinced an all inclusive resort experience will do. Think about it.

[Static events]

You get what you pay for...

[lisiamc]

The truth is the passengers themselves complained that dinner took too long, they wanted anytime dining so they didn't have to sit with strangers and could eat and run, they wanted everything to be casual, no dressing up, they wanted free drink packages and internet, they wanted loud music etc, etc, etc. Basically, they didn't want an old fashioned cruise experience

 

Do you think these things just might have had some effect on the experience one receives on board now? How could the ambiance and service possibly be the same as it used to be? That's not what the people wanted. Why would a cruise line think they need to provide an upscale, quality experience when they are convinced an all inclusive resort experience will do. Think about it.

 

That’s what this person wanted. I guess all the others who liked it are willing to pay suite prices to get what we used to get at regular prices. (The service, not so much the larger cabin.)

[Silkroad]

The truth is the passengers themselves complained that dinner took too long, they wanted anytime dining so they didn't have to sit with strangers and could eat and run, they wanted everything to be casual, no dressing up, they wanted free drink packages and internet, they wanted loud music etc, etc, etc. Basically, they didn't want an old fashioned cruise experience

 

Do you think these things just might have had some effect on the experience one receives on board now? How could the ambiance and service possibly be the same as it used to be? That's not what the people wanted. Why would a cruise line think they need to provide an upscale, quality experience when they are convinced an all inclusive resort experience will do. Think about it.

 

I’m weary of the many gross generalizations on this board. The truth is SOME passengers wanted SOME or ALL of the changes stated in your first paragraph. BTW surely few believe “included” drink or internet packages or are “free”.

 

I’m a relative newcomer to cruising (first cruise in 2006 on Millennium) and I’m younger than many people on these boards who bemoan the loss of the old fashioned cruise experience (which seems to have already begun eroding by the time I took my first cruise, since I was reading similar complaints back then). I myself didn’t desire or demand any of the changes you listed. In fact, some of the changes have significantly eroded my personal cruise experience. Clearly, the majority want these changes (or Celebrity think they do) so those of us who don’t want them must adapt or find another line.

[MadManOfBethesda]

BTW surely few believe “included” drink or internet packages or are “free”.

 

No, but they can be close to free. I'm currently onboard Millennium for a 14-day cruise in which I paid $450pp extra for all 4 perks. Now given that I'm getting $150obc and $238 for the tips I would have had to pay regardless, that means I'm paying a grand total of $62 for a premium drink pkg. and unlimited WiFi for 14 days. That may not be free, but it's pretty damn close.

[Ma Bell]

I’m weary of the many gross generalizations on this board. The truth is SOME passengers wanted SOME or ALL of the changes stated in your first paragraph. BTW surely few believe “included” drink or internet packages or are “free”.

 

I’m a relative newcomer to cruising (first cruise in 2006 on Millennium) and I’m younger than many people on these boards who bemoan the loss of the old fashioned cruise experience (which seems to have already begun eroding by the time I took my first cruise, since I was reading similar complaints back then). I myself didn’t desire or demand any of the changes you listed. In fact, some of the changes have significantly eroded my personal cruise experience. Clearly, the majority want these changes (or Celebrity think they do) so those of us who don’t want them must adapt or find another line.

 

Exactly. By the way, the gross generalization was used to make a point.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Ma Bell

[Ma Bell]

No, but they can be close to free. I'm currently onboard Millennium for a 14-day cruise in which I paid $450pp extra for all 4 perks. Now given that I'm getting $150obc and $238 for the tips I would have had to pay regardless, that means I'm paying a grand total of $62 for a premium drink pkg. and unlimited WiFi for 14 days. That may not be free, but it's pretty damn close.

It all depends on what you're paying for your cruise fare.

[Oceangoer2]

I’m weary of the many gross generalizations on this board. The truth is SOME passengers wanted SOME or ALL of the changes stated in your first paragraph. BTW surely few believe “included” drink or internet packages or are “free”.

 

I myself didn’t desire or demand any of the changes you listed. In fact, some of the changes have significantly eroded my personal cruise experience. Clearly, the majority want these changes (or Celebrity think they do) so those of us who don’t want them must adapt or find another line.

 

I agree...many generalizations......SOME is the operative word here....."Clearly, the majority want these changes (or Celebrity think they do) so those of us who don’t want them must adapt or find another line."

Profit line dictates, along with following SOME other cruise lines' policies which are showing increased patronage over time. Change is not a result of SOME who want SOME change....I don't think it is always the majority's opinion or was there a poll taken I missed?

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

There is one element besides getting what one pays for. It is also if ones experience is negatively impacted by the change.

 

There is one difference between the movement of cruise lines to having tiers of service and hotels and airlines.

 

On a cruise ship the space is a fixed quantity. When Celebrity created the additional dining rooms and made Michaels a private club they reduced the amount of public space on the ship available to everyone else. When you pay for the concierge floor in a hotel the hotel has not reduced the amount of public space. The coach seat and services on an airplane is the same if first class exists or not.

 

So if you compare Celebrity prior to making the changes to Celebrity today the passengers not in the special categories are a little worse off in what they get than they did prior to the changes. They lost some public space, the MD tables are more crowded, etc.

 

To put it in context it would be the equivalent if an airline where to make a change where now 1/2 of the seats in the gate area were only for 1st and business class. The others would be negatively impacted by having the seats available to them be reduced.

 

Not so. The people who are now eating in Luminae and Blu were formerly eating in the MDR. How did moving them to separate dining rooms decrease the space available to everyone? It didn't. It took them out of the MDR and put them in a different place. As for Michael's Club, hardly anyone ever used it when it was public space, so I don't see that as much of a loss.

As to your airplane analogy, the coach space might be the same if first class didn't exist, but the price certainly wouldn't be. It would be more expensive.