International Flights and layovers

[txflood33]

My wife and I flew to Rome 4-5 years ago with a stop at Heathrow to change planes. This flight was booked through the cruise line for convenience and some of the guarantees that came with it. We had about a 1 hour layover. This was our first time to Heathrow so we certainly experienced some things that were simply different that many US airports I had been to. We had to go through the security lines again. I had a bottle of water I bought in Chicago O'Hare and had stuffed it in my bag as we were gathering things to get off the plane. Obviously liquid in the bag will certainly call  for a manual search. Long story short, we ended up sprinting through the airport with a British Airlines employee running ahead of us to show us where to go as they were holding the plane for us.

 

So, lol, I'm trying to avoid that that kind of anxiety and cardio to start off my vacation. We are getting to the point to buy airfare for our SE Asia cruise. So my question is, to those of you who have learned from experience, how much of a layover do you try to allot yourself when laying over in an unfamiliar airport? Keeping language barriers in mind as well....the few flights I have seen just browsing I could layover in Taiwan or Dubai....I'm kind of leaning towards the LAX option, but if a good price jumps out I want to keep all options open.

[zqvol]

If you change planes in LAX you can normally get away with 60 - 90 minutes without any issues, because normally you don't have to clear security again. If you change overseas I would allow at least three hours because you have to clear security, plus customs, plus  immigration and maybe an agricultural inspection.

Edited February 2, 2019 by zqvol

[CruiserBruce]

English is the language of international air travel. It is unlikely you will have any problems reading signage in any airport of any size. 

 

I would think out of Chicago, you could make your connections in Japan or Hong Kong...major airports with lots of connecting flights, and English signage.

 

What time is required in another country will vary by that countries laws and policies. But it is also more common outside of the US to be "in transit", rather than having to clear much security.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, txflood33 said:

 

So my question is, to those of you who have learned from experience, how much of a layover do you try to allot yourself when laying over in an unfamiliar airport? 

 

In general I would be comfortable if I had at least 1.5 hours.  Have done several 1 hour connections, so not saying they can't be done.  Just that for overall comfort level 1 hour can be pushing it as you know.  

[Gwendy]

Singapore and Dubai always have a second security clearance just before you board, even if you are in transit.  Be aware these are very large airports and you may need to take internal train/tram to reach your next terminal.  Allow yourself plenty of time.  These are destinations on their own.

[Flatbush Flyer]

OP: anyone who has flown internationally for work (including me) will say that the best "rule of thumb" is a minimum of 3 hours. This allows a buffer for delay at original departure airport and at layover airport.

If you fly biz class and, thus, have access to an airport club, 3 hours will fly by quickly and comfortably.

[feathersandnananose]

3 hours ago, zqvol said:

If you change planes in LAX you can normally get away with 60 - 90 minutes without any issues, because normally you don't have to clear security again. If you change overseas I would allow at least three hours because you have to clear security, plus customs, plus  immigration and maybe an agricultural inspection.

I believe that you don't have to go through security again ONLY IF you do not have to change terminals..... but so many airports (including LAX) have multiple terminals.  LAX has....seven?  eight?  You need to research which airlines and which terminal(s) they use to be sure of how long you might need.  But when in doubt, I'd give it a good amount of time.

[donaldsc]

 

Layovers totally depend upon where you are cruising to once you get onto the ship.  I recently did an Antarctica cruise out of Ushuaia.  I flew from Las Vegas to Atlanta to Buenos Aires to Ushuaia.  There are not a lot of flights per day from Atlanta to Buenos Aires.   In addition, I had to transfer from the Buenos Aires international airport to the Buenos Aires domestic airport.  If I had missed any of my connections at any point in the trip, it would mean that I would miss then ship.  If I had missed the ship, I might as well have gone back to the airport and taken a flight home.  There was no plan B.  For this reason, I allowed myself much more time than the suggested minimum time between flights.  It meant a lot of sitting around airports but I had no worry that I would miss the ship.

 

Now coming home my attitude was different.  If I missed a connection coming home, I would have gotten home eventually.

 

If you are flying to a cruise where there are alternative flights or if I could catch up with the ship if I missed the first day of the cruise because of a missed connection, I would obviously go with shorter layover times.

 

DON

[K32682]

A two hour layover if within the same terminal on a domestic flight.  3 hours otherwise.

 

  

[txflood33]

I appreciate all of the feedback. It looks like 3+ hours will be my goal...depending on where or stop is.

 

As I said before, some quick searches just to get an idea of price and flight time, the 3 most popular I found were:

Chicago>Taipei>Hong Kong

Chicago>LAX>Hong Kong

Chicago>Dubai>Hong Kong

 

Now, as I type this, I wonder if I can find Chicago>Hawaii>Hong Kong....I wonder if that would break the flight time up more comfortably...off to search...I appreciate all of the info and will always welcome more

[CruiserBruce]

Are you using matrix.ita? That is the best site for all the options.

 

Nobody flies Hong Kong-HNL, without a stop somewhere else.

 

Where exactly is your cruise starting from?

 

Doing research on the Cruise Air board would be beneficial.

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, txflood33 said:

I appreciate all of the feedback. It looks like 3+ hours will be my goal...depending on where or stop is.

 

As I said before, some quick searches just to get an idea of price and flight time, the 3 most popular I found were:

Chicago>Taipei>Hong Kong

Chicago>LAX>Hong Kong

Chicago>Dubai>Hong Kong

 

Now, as I type this, I wonder if I can find Chicago>Hawaii>Hong Kong....I wonder if that would break the flight time up more comfortably...off to search...I appreciate all of the info and will always welcome more

 

So..."Southeast Asia" is now defined as Chicago to Hong Kong.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "popular".  Especially since you don't even bother to mention the Cathay Pacific non-stop from ORD to HKG.

 

And routing via LAX seems odd.  The non-stop from ORD is only 534 miles longer than flying from LAX, so you're not really breaking things up by introducing a stop.

 

 

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Are you using matrix.ita? That is the best site for all the options.

 

Nobody flies Hong Kong-HNL, without a stop somewhere else.

 

Where exactly is your cruise starting from?

 

Doing research on the Cruise Air board would be beneficial.

It's https://matrix.itasoftware.com/

Of the choices cited in the earlier post (and based on the stated condition of a "layover"), going through LAX will give you more options for flight "reassignment" if you have a connection SNAFU. Hopefully, you're booking with a member of a large flight consortium like Star Alliance (I.e., United, Lufthansa, etc.).

Edited February 3, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[gooch47]

Not sure how long your longest flight is, but on our many trips from Central Ohio to Sydney, Australia, we would first fly to LA, stay overnight to break up the trip and then fly to Sydney.  The flight from LA to Sydney was about 14 hours.

[txflood33]

sorry for any confusion....we are in Chicago...our cruise sails out of Hong Kong. We are planning on flying in a few days early to adjust to time and see the city

 

When I said 'most popular', I meant the most frequent flight options than came up when doing a preliminary search, but still too early to book...simple research

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread that maybe an option of Chicago>Hawaii> Hong Kong might be a better option....but there doesn't seem to be direct flights from Hawaii...at least Honolulu. I had options like Honolulu>LAX>HKG or Honolulu>Vancouver>HKG....seems counter productive

[Flatbush Flyer]

19 minutes ago, txflood33 said:

sorry for any confusion....we are in Chicago...our cruise sails out of Hong Kong. We are planning on flying in a few days early to adjust to time and see the city

 

When I said 'most popular', I meant the most frequent flight options than came up when doing a preliminary search, but still too early to book...simple research

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread that maybe an option of Chicago>Hawaii> Hong Kong might be a better option....but there doesn't seem to be direct flights from Hawaii...at least Honolulu. I had options like Honolulu>LAX>HKG or Honolulu>Vancouver>HKG....seems counter productive

As aforementioned, search with "ita matrix."

[CruiserBruce]

United and Cathy Pacific (also American codeshare on to that Cathy flight) fly non-stop ORD-HKG. Not sure why you would want to make a 16 hour flight into a near 24 hour journey by adding stops. I am seeing $1400 fares next month- pretty reasonable.

[bonsai3s]

20 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

United and Cathy Pacific (also American codeshare on to that Cathy flight) fly non-stop ORD-HKG. Not sure why you would want to make a 16 hour flight into a near 24 hour journey by adding stops. I am seeing $1400 fares next month- pretty reasonable.

 

Agree with CruiserBruce.  A direct flight is so much better than having a layover...for a number of reasons.

 

To txflood33, we know how you feel...we've done the same exact thing going through Heathrow.  In my case, it was those little liquor bottles that held us up through the security check line...and yes, we were running to our next flight as well.  We learned our lesson.  To your question, 3 hour layover is good for us...anything more than that the DW has too much time to shop at the Duty Free stores. Happy Sailing!

(Make sure to visit the Asia thread...there's some great tips there for your stay in Hong Kong.)

[new_cruiser]

21 hours ago, zqvol said:

If you change planes in LAX you can normally get away with 60 - 90 minutes without any issues, because normally you don't have to clear security again. If you change overseas I would allow at least three hours because you have to clear security, plus customs, plus  immigration and maybe an agricultural inspection.

If you change planes coming back to the US from overseas, you will have to go through immigration, collect your checked bags (if any) from the carousel, go through customs after which you drop your checked bags onto the conveyor and then back through security. Even with Global Entry, I like to have 2 hours for that (though in some more compact airports I will shave it a bit tighter).

 

I don't know of any US airports that have in-transit areas that allow you to stay behind security. In Europe and Asia, many airports do have in portions (where you go between international flights without ever officially entering the country). In the EU, transferring from a flight coming into the EU to another flight going within the EU (e.g. coming into Munich from the US to get a flight going to Italy), you go through immigration and customs without picking up your checked bags so I've done that without going through security again. (Frankfurt airport is kind of unpredictable on whether you go through security again - sometimes going from one gate area to another you come to a place where you have to go through security other times you transfer without hitting a security line.)

18 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

OP: anyone who has flown internationally for work (including me) will say that the best "rule of thumb" is a minimum of 3 hours. This allows a buffer for delay at original departure airport and at layover airport.

If you fly biz class and, thus, have access to an airport club, 3 hours will fly by quickly and comfortably.

I've flown internationally for work a lot too. I'm often comfortable with 1.5 to 2 hours depending on the airport - more for Frankfurt because it's huge and often a zoo. I'd go longer if it's a route without many options for getting an alternate flight if you miss your connection. Also, I like longer (even for a domestic transfer) if coming in on a short flight on a small plane though it sounds like that doesn't apply to the OP's routes. When there are airport capacity issues, they often will delay those. E.g. San Francisco in some visibility conditions can't handle it's full load and they will delay the flights coming from the West Coast where they can hold planes on the ground instead of having planes circle in the air. I've had the same happen when I had a flight from Dulles to Newark to connect to an international flight.

 

17 hours ago, feathersandnananose said:

I believe that you don't have to go through security again ONLY IF you do not have to change terminals..... but so many airports (including LAX) have multiple terminals.  LAX has....seven?  eight?  You need to research which airlines and which terminal(s) they use to be sure of how long you might need.  But when in doubt, I'd give it a good amount of time.

Terminals the International terminal and terminals 4 through 8 in LAX have behind security connections. So you can go between those  without going through security if you arrive domestically.

https://www.flylax.com/en/inter-terminal-connections

I've done that to go from United (terminal 7 or 😎 to the international terminal. It is a long walk and kind of meandering as in some places it is toward the front of the concourse and some places it is mid-concourse, underground some places and above ground others. There is no people mover option. But if you want transport, the choice is to go out of security to get the between terminal shuttle bus that goes through the very heavy terminal traffic around the U shaped terminal road. IMO, if you are able-bodied, the long walk is preferable. LAX has 9 terminals (eight numbered ones plus the international one). 

 

LAX is one of my least favorite airports for transferring - especially between airlines but even within United the gates are quite spread out. 

 

Bottom line: Even if you allow for longer connections, stuff can happen. Internationally, I'd rather fly in at least a couple of days ahead if at all possible.

Edited February 3, 2019 by new_cruiser

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 minutes ago, new_cruiser said:

If you change planes coming back to the US from overseas, you will have to go through immigration, collect your checked bags (if any) from the carousel, go through customs after which you drop your checked bags onto the conveyor and then back through security. Even with Global Entry, I like to have 2 hours for that (though in some more compact airports I will shave it a bit tighter).

 

I don't know of any US airports that have in-transit areas that allow you to stay behind security. In Europe and Asia, many airports do have in portions (where you go between international flights without ever officially entering the country). In the EU, transferring from a flight coming into the EU to another flight going within the EU (e.g. coming into Munich from the US to get a flight going to Italy), you go through immigration and customs without picking up your checked bags so I've done that without going through security again. (Frankfurt airport is kind of unpredictable on whether you go through security again - sometimes going from one gate area to another you come to a place where you have to go through security other times you transfer without hitting a security line.)

I've flown internationally for work a lot too. I'm often comfortable with 1.5 to 2 hours depending on the airport - more for Frankfurt because it's huge and often a zoo. I'd go longer if it's a route without many options for getting an alternate flight if you miss your connection. Also, I like longer (even for a domestic transfer) if coming in on a short flight on a small plane though it sounds like that doesn't apply to the OP's routes. When there are airport capacity issues, they often will delay those. E.g. San Francisco in some visibility conditions can't handle it's full load and they will delay the flights coming from the West Coast where they can hold planes on the ground instead of having planes circle in the air. I've had the same happen when I had a flight from Dulles to Newark to connect to an international flight.

 

Terminals the International terminal and terminals 4 through 8 in LAX have behind security connections. So you can go between those  without going through security if you arrive domestically.

https://www.flylax.com/en/inter-terminal-connections

I've done that to go from United (terminal 7 or 😎 to the international terminal. It is a long walk and kind of meandering as in some places it is toward the front of the concourse and some places it is mid-concourse, underground some places and above ground others. There is no people mover option. But if you want transport, the choice is to go out of security to get the between terminal shuttle bus that goes through the very heavy terminal traffic around the U shaped terminal road. IMO, if you are able-bodied, the long walk is preferable. LAX has 9 terminals (eight numbered ones plus the international one). 

 

LAX is one of my least favorite airports for transferring - especially between airlines but even within United the gates are quite spread out. 

 

Bottom line: Even if you allow for longer connections, stuff can happen. Internationally, I'd rather fly in at least a couple of days ahead if at all possible.

SFO is our home airport. It's not unusual to see weather delays that will significantly reduce the buffer time for connecting flights. That's just one reason for our 3 hour minimum layover rule. BTW, unless the cost is overwhelming, we use only major connection hubs (for maximum flexibility in necessary booking changes).

[new_cruiser]

Apparently, an "8" followed immediately by a ")" gets converted to 😎.  "(terminal 7 or 😎"  was supposed to be parenthesis around "terminal 7 or 8"

Edited February 3, 2019 by new_cruiser

[Port Power]

6 hours ago, txflood33 said:

I appreciate all of the feedback. It looks like 3+ hours will be my goal...depending on where or stop is.

 

As I said before, some quick searches just to get an idea of price and flight time, the 3 most popular I found were:

Chicago>Taipei>Hong Kong

Chicago>LAX>Hong Kong

Chicago>Dubai>Hong Kong

 

I add my vote for the direct flight with Cathay Pacific.  A good airline and so much easier.

However, going through Dubai there is no reason to leave and re-enter the airport when in transit, so no security lines.  They do call you to the departure lounge early and there is another check there.  One hour between flights is enough, 1.5 hours if you prefer. I have had only one hour between Emirate flights and always made it with time to spare. If all booked on one ticket you will not be offered a connection thst is too tight anyway.  If the first flight is delayed, the airline will look after you by rushing you through or puting you on another flight.  Even accommodation if necessary.

 

Consider that direct flight if it suits you though.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, txflood33 said:

sorry for any confusion....we are in Chicago...our cruise sails out of Hong Kong. We are planning on flying in a few days early to adjust to time and see the city

 

When I said 'most popular', I meant the most frequent flight options than came up when doing a preliminary search, but still too early to book...simple research

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread that maybe an option of Chicago>Hawaii> Hong Kong might be a better option....but there doesn't seem to be direct flights from Hawaii...at least Honolulu. I had options like Honolulu>LAX>HKG or Honolulu>Vancouver>HKG....seems counter productive

 

Flightconnections.com is a good website if you are still looking into potential flight routes. Though if a direct flight exists that would seem to be a preferred option if you are looking to avoid the stress of changing planes.

[SRF]

20 hours ago, Gwendy said:

Singapore and Dubai always have a second security clearance just before you board, even if you are in transit.  Be aware these are very large airports and you may need to take internal train/tram to reach your next terminal.  Allow yourself plenty of time.  These are destinations on their own.

 

Most international airports have re-screening at some point.  Many, after you get off the flight, but before you enter the terminal.  Even if you and just changing planes.

 

Singapore is different, in that they have security at every gate.

 

 

[SRF]

I travel internationally for work a bit over 40% of the year.

 

I prefer to have at LEAST 1.5 hours, and preferably 2 hours for any connection outside the US or when entering the US.  Between changing terminals and re-screening for security, 1 hour is rushed.

 

And if your flight is the least bit late, you will be REALLY rushed.