Why I Will Never Again Sail With X

[twodjs]

This is not a U.S. flagged ship. But It is regularly inspected. Was there any indication of a safety hazard with the steps? Reviewed the picture again - still don't see a maintenance issue there. Once again I ask if others, or her husband proceeded her? Did they slip? Could the tread, or lack of, on her shoes be a contributing factor? 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

13 minutes ago, twodjs said:

Once again I ask if others, or her husband proceeded her? Did they slip? 

 

I'm not going to answer rhetorical questions.  You can read what happened to the others on post 63, paragraph 3.

[Cachecara]

1 hour ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

You've misquoted.  She was holding her back, and unconfidently said "I think so...?"  Later she told the tender driving "I hope so..."  Interpret that how you will, I don't owe you an explanation or an apology.

 

What we want was stated on post 63, paragraph 4. 

 

 

 

I am sorry you had a bad experience.  I’m sorry your wife slipped and later felt discomfort.  

I have history of being a supervisor in the health field and taking oodles of incident reports for patients, their family and staff.  

The key is to document the occurrence immediately when it happens and objectively, so that the incident is recorded factually as to what actually happened.  

Perhaps what would have aided this situation would have been if a higher up staff person had been called in to deal with this situation as it happened.  Then if the OP chose to go on the excursion after stating she was “ok” or able to do so and did so, she would be absolving the cruise line from any other responsibility.

It can not possibly be dealt with objectively as far as what injury took place due to the initial slip vs what transpired on the excursion to possibly worsen the initial situation. Once the OP utilizes their own judgement to proceed without further cruise line intervention, they basically give an “ I’m ok” situation vs “we need to document this in case there is an issue later”. 

Again, sorry for the injury and ill feelings, but it appears the situation was handled less than ideally from both ends with the bulk of it on the passenger. 

[twodjs]

If your real object was to improve the surface of the tender steps, why didn't you title your thread "Great suggestion for improving the tender experience"? Your critical, negative approach brought out the claws from Celebrity loyalists. And trying to defend who said what sounded to me like a lawyer had become involved. Sorry that your wife suffered, but a positive, constructive approach would have been much less painful for all. 

[GeorgesGal]

I started reading this post a few days ago, till about the second page.  Today I returned to find it has evolved into a full scale war between posters.  I think this thread should be shut down by the hosts!   Why can't people act their age and stop bickering about who is right/wrong?????

 

On this note, I'll say goodbye.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

8 minutes ago, Cachecara said:

 

The key is to document the occurrence immediately when it happens and objectively, so that the incident is recorded factually as to what actually happened.  

Perhaps what would have aided this situation would have been if a higher up staff person had been called in to deal with this situation as it happened.  Then if the OP chose to go on the excursion after stating she was “ok” or able to do so and did so, she would be absolving the cruise line from any other responsibility.

It can not possibly be dealt with objectively as far as what injury took place due to the initial slip vs what transpired on the excursion to possibly worsen the initial situation. Once the OP utilizes their own judgement to proceed without further cruise line intervention, they basically give an “ I’m ok” situation vs “we need to document this in case there is an issue later”. 

 

 

This is really excellent advice.  My wife was in a shuttle van the whole time, but I get what you're saying, plus what if there had been a vehicle accident?  What if there had been a 3rd fall, or accusation of such?

 

It didn't cross my mind at the time to get medical treatment on the ship, at least within those few seconds we were next to the tender.  Do you think it would have been a mistake to have skipped the tour, and have gone directly for medical aid on land, once we landed in Lahaina?

 

 

 

 

[keithm]

6 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Gust Service on the ship, claimed that there were no cameras anywhere near the tender.

Trust me, they are everywhere!

[Cachecara]

4 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

This is really excellent advice.  My wife was in a shuttle van the whole time, but I get what you're saying, plus what if there had been a vehicle accident?  What if there had been a 3rd fall, or accusation of such?

 

It didn't cross my mind at the time to get medical treatment on the ship, at least within those few seconds we were next to the tender.  Do you think it would have been a mistake to have skipped the tour, and have gone directly for medical aid on land, once we landed in Lahaina?

 

 

 

 

The incident happened under the responsibility of the cruise ship.  The medical assessment and evaluation should have been done on their turf and immediately.  

Emphasis on the situation being one where you determine medical follow up is needed. 

IMO, once you left the ship and or tender, you relinquished Celebrity from their

responsibility. 

The excursion probably would have refunded your money under the circumstances and if not your traveler’s insurance should.  

I understand the desire to not miss the excursion, but in this case , you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  

JMO

[Stateroom_Sailor]

8 minutes ago, Cachecara said:

The incident happened under the responsibility of the cruise ship.  The medical assessment and evaluation should have been done on their turf and immediately.  

Emphasis on the situation being one where you determine medical follow up is needed. 

IMO, once you left the ship and or tender, you relinquished Celebrity from their

responsibility. 

The excursion probably would have refunded your money under the circumstances and if not your traveler’s insurance should.  

I understand the desire to not miss the excursion, but in this case , you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  

JMO

 

Do you get out of all these comments, that I'm defending going on the excursion?  

 

I am asking you because I thought your previous post was insightful, from someone in the health industry.  Would Celebrity responsibility be relinquished, had we got immediate attention on land?  I ask because I was fearful of downplay, had there been something more seriously wrong.  How would this be different than getting air lifted off a cruise ship, or getting injured at Walmart, where this is no medical facility?  I get filing a report, but not having a choice in who does the evaluation.

[markeb]

6 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Do you get out of all these comments, that I'm defending going on the excursion?  

 

I am asking you because I thought your previous post was insightful, from someone in the health industry.  Would Celebrity responsibility be relinquished, had we got immediate attention on land?  I ask because I was fearful of downplay, had there been something more seriously wrong.  How would this be different than getting air lifted off a cruise ship, or getting injured at Walmart, where this is no medical facility?  I get filing a report, but not having a choice in who does the evaluation.

 

I don't do this in the healthcare field, but I've been involved in numerous safety programs in my life. What you're describing is why I said way back when they should have taken a minimal incident report if she thought she could go on the excursion. I view this fall as not the same as slipping at the pool, etc. Others may differ on that, but you were in the transition from what I'd consider "hotel" activities and an actual seamanship activity. Flying, operating military vehicles, conducting docking, tendering, etc., on a ship (not just a cruise ship), are all activities that traditionally have significant safety programs, and recording incidents is part of the process improvement. You can't do a root cause analysis if the incidents aren't recorded, and that's a key part of most safety programs.

 

Had they taken down your information, and you said if it's bothering me I'll stop at a clinic or hospital onshore, I suspect they'd take that information on your return; you're a customer, not an employee. It's not uncommon for workman's compensation programs to require you be evaluated by their occupational health clinic, for instance, although you wouldn't have to accept care there for a claim. But as a customer, I wouldn't expect them to try to compel you to use their onboard facility, especially since you were tendering ashore to a US port where your insurance would probably be accepted. I'd have to look at the terms for exact wording, but their liability is generally limited, and you're required to file claims in Miami, etc., so their financial exposure is limited. But, we're on the 170th post on a global cruising board that could have begun "I fell on the way to the tender, but let me tell you how professional Celebrity's response was..."

[Cachecara]

35 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Do you get out of all these comments, that I'm defending going on the excursion?  

 

I am asking you because I thought your previous post was insightful, from someone in the health industry.  Would Celebrity responsibility be relinquished, had we got immediate attention on land?  I ask because I was fearful of downplay, had there been something more seriously wrong.  How would this be different than getting air lifted off a cruise ship, or getting injured at Walmart, where this is no medical facility?  I get filing a report, but not having a choice in who does the evaluation.

Honestly, I am not aware of what celebrity’s rules and procedures  are about injuries and diagnostic eval or care should one want another healthcare facility to provide such. 

I know I was impressed with the few times I have seen them respond to serious health issues and their health facilities seem adequate. From what I have read on various threads and cruise lines, most ships have X-ray equipment. 

I would think if one would refuse medical care for whatever reason onboard, a crew member would have to accompany the passenger to whatever shore health facility chosen for care.  Otherwise, how would one know if the injury that initially occurred had not been further exacerbated in transport etc? 

[citronella]

I think it’s just your old regular “slip and fall”.

[RobCaron]

sorry to hear

[sfaaa]

2 hours ago, citronella said:

I think it’s just your old regular “slip and fall”.

Followed by the "They just don't care hurt feelings'. 

[waterbug123]

On 5/11/2019 at 9:39 PM, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I am sorry that you are frustrated, but I have already answered your question.  If we continued to research ship safety after disembarking, I don't need your permission to have done so.

 

Of course you don't need my permission, and I never said you do.  I was pointing out that the fact that you did research would indicate that you weren't sure whether the steps were worth complaining about initially. 

 

And no, you haven't answered my question.  You referred me to post #63, paragraph 4, but that explains the action you would like Celebrity to take now with regard to the condition of the stairs.  My question has been what you wanted the onboard CS rep to do and at the time you made the initial onboard report.  You didn't like her reply.  I've asked what you wanted her to do/say/offer at that time.  Obviously I can't require you to answer, but it seems like a reasonable question yet you have refused to answer. 

 

16 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

You've misquoted.  She was holding her back, and unconfidently said "I think so...?"  Later she told the tender driving "I hope so..."  Interpret that how you will, I don't owe you an explanation or an apology.

 

What we want was stated on post 63, paragraph 4. 

 

 

 

Again, that paragraph doesn't say what you wanted to happen while you were onboard, only what you want Celebrity to do at this point.

 

5 hours ago, yorky said:

Amen, i’m amazed the insults and bickering are still going on.

 

If you don't like reading the replies, why are you still doing so?

[jean87510]

For someone who vows to never cruise Celebrity again, you certainly are responding to a lot of posts.  Now one thing I have not read yet was the lighting when leaving for the tender.  If the excursion was at 2am, is it light outside?  Was there artificial lighting?  That can cause some confusion especially if one is tired or has vision problems which I have no idea if you do.  I realize the eagerness to see those lights; however, in hindsight it would have been much better to just go back to the ship medical to be checked or even speak to the officers at the tender to see if someone could help.  Was there any place open at 2am to check your injuries (wife)?  I may not have read that it was crowded getting off which they may not have seen your wife.  Was anything broken or was she just bruised?  Is there a sign posted stating "watch your step'?  I definitely feel that Celebrity should have been on top of escorting each guest onto the tender as I have seen in the past.  I have had my hand held by staff and the tender boat to help me in.  They also only allow one at a time to cross the bridge from ship to tender boat.  But in hindsight, if your wife was injured, she really should have spoken up and said something right then and there.  I know that when an initial injury happens, the swelling has not started so she may not have felt any pain.  But it is possible that they may have had some ice or something for her or the tender crew may have.

A lot of us posters are not Celebrity cheerleaders.  We are just trying to get the whole picture. 

[katiegirl1264]

lets try to be positive

[Stateroom_Sailor]

1 hour ago, jean87510 said:

For someone who vows to never cruise Celebrity again, you certainly are responding to a lot of posts. 

 

If only it would count towards my Captain Club points...

[sunnydays456]

hope you feel better!

[Covepointcruiser]

I think it is foolhardy for Celebrity to offer tours at 2 AM!   It is already dangerous to use stairs to the tender during daylight hours, to allow passengers to use these in the dark is stupid!     Celebrity should close all tender operations when it is dark.    The risk to passengers is much too great!

[mom says]

3 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

I think it is foolhardy for Celebrity to offer tours at 2 AM!   It is already dangerous to use stairs to the tender during daylight hours, to allow passengers to use these in the dark is stupid!     Celebrity should close all tender operations when it is dark.    The risk to passengers is much too great!

You make it sound as though these tender passengers were leaving the ship in pitch dark and feeling their way along.  Have you ever used a tender at night? In my experience,  the boarding areas are very brightly lit, so I fail to see any  increased danger from a visibility standpoint.  Or have you encountered situations to the contrary?

[smtcan]

In the past two years I have had two accidents on holiday -  ok, I am a klutz!

 

The first was on  Celebrity Silhouette.  I didn’t put the light on for a bathroom visit because I didn’t want to wake my husband.  I slipped getting back into bed and hit my head on the corner of the nightstand.  (That certainly woke him up!). Copious blood, as is usual with head cuts.  I went to the medical centre in the morning and had the cut glued, which I had never heard of before.  I had to sign the doctor's incident report.  The safety officer came to the cabin and took photos.  There was no charge for the medical treatment and wine and strawberries were delivered to our cabin that night.  I thought this was more than fair, considering that it was my own fault.

 

The second incident was last year at a resort in Zanzibar.  A sudden rain fall made the tiles outside the dining room very slippery.  I fell and broke my wrist.  We went back to our room and phoned for medical help.  A doctor arrived and took me to an off site clinic where my wrist was set.  The clinic spoke directly to our insurance company and the treatment was covered by them.  No one at the resort asked how I was, or seemed concerned about the slippery tiles.  We asked to fill out a report, and we’re given a form, but no one seemed interested in it.  There didn’t seem much point in making an issue of it, although I felt far less at fault than I did over the previous incident.  Thankfully my wrist healed well.

 

I sympathize with the OP because I am sure it put a damper on their trip.  I think sometimes service depends upon who you deal with at any given moment, rather than being representative of the whole company and staff.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

9 minutes ago, smtcan said:

In the past two years I have had two accidents on holiday -  ok, I am a klutz!

 

The first was on  Celebrity Silhouette.  I didn’t put the light on for a bathroom visit because I didn’t want to wake my husband.  I slipped getting back into bed and hit my head on the corner of the nightstand.  (That certainly woke him up!). Copious blood, as is usual with head cuts.  I went to the medical centre in the morning and had the cut glued, which I had never heard of before.  I had to sign the doctor's incident report.  The safety officer came to the cabin and took photos.  There was no charge for the medical treatment and wine and strawberries were delivered to our cabin that night.  I thought this was more than fair, considering that it was my own fault.

 

The second incident was last year at a resort in Zanzibar.  A sudden rain fall made the tiles outside the dining room very slippery.  I fell and broke my wrist.  We went back to our room and phoned for medical help.  A doctor arrived and took me to an off site clinic where my wrist was set.  The clinic spoke directly to our insurance company and the treatment was covered by them.  No one at the resort asked how I was, or seemed concerned about the slippery tiles.  We asked to fill out a report, and we’re given a form, but no one seemed interested in it.  There didn’t seem much point in making an issue of it, although I felt far less at fault than I did over the previous incident.  Thankfully my wrist healed well.

 

I sympathize with the OP because I am sure it put a damper on their trip.  I think sometimes service depends upon who you deal with at any given moment, rather than being representative of the whole company and staff.

 

I appreciate hearing the stories, and am glad you wrist healed.  Silhouette deserves an A+, for going above and beyond.  

 

Bon Voyage.

[Covepointcruiser]

22 hours ago, mom says said:

You make it sound as though these tender passengers were leaving the ship in pitch dark and feeling their way along.  Have you ever used a tender at night? In my experience,  the boarding areas are very brightly lit, so I fail to see any  increased danger from a visibility standpoint.  Or have you encountered situations to the contrary?

 

Artificial lights can never replace good old daylight.    Tendering in the middle of the night is dangerous and fairly unusual.   Of course if Celebrity scheduled a tour for the middle of the night, shame on them.    If they can’t dock they should not offer the tours.    

[Stateroom_Sailor]

4 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

 

Artificial lights can never replace good old daylight.    Tendering in the middle of the night is dangerous and fairly unusual.   Of course if Celebrity scheduled a tour for the middle of the night, shame on them.    If they can’t dock they should not offer the tours.    

 

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think lighting played a factor in this case.  The crew are overworked, and an overnight may be their only time to get off the ship.  I was told of 6 hour sleeping schedules, 2 hour naps, and no days off, depending on the position.  

 

We missed the previous tender at 1:15 am, just as it left.  Crew that were dressed up to go out, were frustrated that they had missed it too.  They complained that there was no point waiting, they had to be to bed by 2 am, if they wanted any sleep, and never get off the ship.