Cold Layup of Some Ships Acknowledged

[Saab4444]

6 hours ago, shipshape sam said:

Not sure I will if others are doing it also.  Will though not book anytime soon till have a better sense of Cold layup.  

What better sense do you need? Cold layup simply means engines for driving off and parked in an industrial port, could be for a week or some months and just saves costs.

[Lazz]

3 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

What better sense do you need? Cold layup simply means engines for driving off and parked in an industrial port, could be for a week or some months and just saves costs.

So this is not Moth balling the ships like they do to warships?

Edited May 10, 2020 by Lazz

[Saab4444]

29 minutes ago, Lazz said:

So this is not Moth balling the ships like they do to warships?

According to DNVGL: 

"In cold lay-up, the machinery is taken out of service and the vessel is kept “electrically dead”. Many vessels in cold lay-up use a deck generator or utilize shore power, which means even the emergency power is off. Only minimum manning covering fire, leakage, moorings and security watches is maintained. This
option involves more complex measures compared to hot lay-up, such as steps to prevent corrosion and ensure protection, the draining of systems and pipes, and more. Cold lay-up is more common for a duration of more than 12 months, but the duration depends naturally on the owner’s needs."

[LXA350]

Since Empress and Majesty are sent to Europe as a crew transport, it looks like they will go into cold layup somewhere in Northern Europe and hopefully never come back. RCL will not need their capacity for years to come especially with additional ships to join the fleet with or without delays. Hence toinvest in such ships again would be a absolute waste of money. They might be able to sell / transfer the ships to Marella (Ex thomson Cruises) who are about to get rid of their ship "Cellebration" built in 1984).

[NancyIL]

Having just done the “Lift & Shift” of my September Canada cruise on Empress to the same cruise in 2021 - what happens to that itinerary if Empress is removed from the fleet? 

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

According to DNVGL: 

"In cold lay-up, the machinery is taken out of service and the vessel is kept “electrically dead”. Many vessels in cold lay-up use a deck generator or utilize shore power, which means even the emergency power is off. Only minimum manning covering fire, leakage, moorings and security watches is maintained. This
option involves more complex measures compared to hot lay-up, such as steps to prevent corrosion and ensure protection, the draining of systems and pipes, and more. Cold lay-up is more common for a duration of more than 12 months, but the duration depends naturally on the owner’s needs."

 

The Cheng described it differently 

 

He mentioned AC would continue to run, linens moved to central storage, mattresses stored on end, etc.

 

Cruise ships have way different surfaces than cargo ships 

[Biker19]

28 minutes ago, NancyIL said:

Having just done the “Lift & Shift” of my September Canada cruise on Empress to the same cruise in 2021 - what happens to that itinerary if Empress is removed from the fleet? 

It might be like any other sailing cancellation - you'll get to move a similar sailing, if available, and some OBC. RCI might take quite some to announce such a cancellation. The first indication, usually, is that you can't make new bookings on such a sailing.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Biker19

[zonacruiser25]

Seems like Royal is acting very slowly to figure out the next move.  Sharing minimum information about where ships are going and what is happening only leaves us all to wonder what is next.  Cold lay up would likely be just to hang on till they can be sold off or transferred.  Maybe a larger ship would be laid up for 6 months or a year to reduce capacity for a while.

[ecslady]

3 hours ago, NancyIL said:

Having just done the “Lift & Shift” of my September Canada cruise on Empress to the same cruise in 2021 - what happens to that itinerary if Empress is removed from the fleet? 

 

I'll be in the same situation as I moved a cruise to a June 2021 Empress sailing.  If that is the case, I'm sure it will be handled in a similar manner as other cancelled sailings have been in the past.

 

However, while many feel the Empress may be one of the first to go, I hope not.  This ship has a smaller passenger capacity which might make it more attractive to ports that may try to limit tourist capacity going forward.  The ship can also get into the smaller ports in Bermuda, and depending on what happens with the election in November, perhaps cruises to Cuba will be back and Empress will resume those itineraries. It may also be easier to Royal to clean and sanitize, since it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the mega ships. At this point, I'd prefer to be on a smaller ship, rather than one with 5000 guests.

 

Guess we will all have to wait and see what happens in the coming months.

 

 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

Hot, Warm and Cold Layup

[Snit13]

4 hours ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

Hot, Warm and Cold Layup

Thanks.

[NancyIL]

11 hours ago, Biker19 said:

It might be like any other sailing cancellation - you'll get to move a similar sailing, if available, and some OBC. RCI might take quite some to announce such a cancellation. The first indication, usually, is that you can't make new bookings on such a sailing.

There are no similar sailings to the 11-night Canada itinerary I booked. If the Empress goes, a refund is the only option for me.

 

8 hours ago, ecslady said:

 

I'll be in the same situation as I moved a cruise to a June 2021 Empress sailing.  If that is the case, I'm sure it will be handled in a similar manner as other cancelled sailings have been in the past.

 

However, while many feel the Empress may be one of the first to go, I hope not.  This ship has a smaller passenger capacity which might make it more attractive to ports that may try to limit tourist capacity going forward.  The ship can also get into the smaller ports in Bermuda, and depending on what happens with the election in November, perhaps cruises to Cuba will be back and Empress will resume those itineraries. It may also be easier to Royal to clean and sanitize, since it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the mega ships. At this point, I'd prefer to be on a smaller ship, rather than one with 5000 guests.

 

Guess we will all have to wait and see what happens in the coming months.

 

 

i hope the decision regarding Empress is made soon! 
 

I fully expected our Sept. 2020 Empress Canada cruise would be cancelled, we’d get a refund, and that would be the end of it. The price for the same itinerary in 2021 was much higher than what we paid, so I never considered booking it - UNTIL the Lift & Shift was available! I was aware that Empress was heading to Europe and might be taken out of service, but that knowledge was temporarily forgotten as I asked my travel agent to Lift & Shift us to the same Canada itinerary in Sept. 2021!

 

 “Act in haste, repent at leisure” comes to mind!!

[Coralc]

21 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

What better sense do you need? Cold layup simply means engines for driving off and parked in an industrial port, could be for a week or some months and just saves costs.

 

3 Norwegian Cruise Line ships are docking long term at the Port Of Oakland in California this week. It is an industrial and container port. You may recall that the Oakland Port is also where they disembarked the Grand Princess passengers. 

According to the newspaper, crew will not be disembarking. 

Link: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/09/three-cruise-ships-head-for-long-term-berths-at-port-of-oakland/

Edited May 11, 2020 by Coralc

[chengkp75]

20 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

According to DNVGL: 

"In cold lay-up, the machinery is taken out of service and the vessel is kept “electrically dead”. Many vessels in cold lay-up use a deck generator or utilize shore power, which means even the emergency power is off. Only minimum manning covering fire, leakage, moorings and security watches is maintained. This
option involves more complex measures compared to hot lay-up, such as steps to prevent corrosion and ensure protection, the draining of systems and pipes, and more. Cold lay-up is more common for a duration of more than 12 months, but the duration depends naturally on the owner’s needs."

 

18 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

The Cheng described it differently 

 

He mentioned AC would continue to run, linens moved to central storage, mattresses stored on end, etc.

 

Cruise ships have way different surfaces than cargo ships 

 

15 hours ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

Hot, Warm and Cold Layup

A lot of what you find online regarding ship layup is based on layup procedures for cargo ships, since no cruise ships have been laid up in recent times, and the challenges of lay up for cargo ships and cruise ships are vastly different.  Cargo ship owners have taken recently to using the term "cold lay up" for measures as described in the first quote above, where the ship is moved to a warm, dry environment to keep dehumidification needs down to a minimum, and the use of a temporary generator to provide lights and emergency bilge pumps, and the "crew" is one or two watchmen.

 

I don't believe a cruise ship could withstand even a short period of the above mentioned type of "cold layup" without significant damage to the interior spaces of the ship, and likely to the mechanical systems.  They would need to move to a more "traditional" cold layup, or "mothballing", where the ship is sealed, systems drained and inerted, and dehumidifying agents placed around the ship to keep mold and mildew formation at a minimum.

 

When cruise lines talk of "cold layup" they are actually referring to the "warm layup" mentioned in the third quote's link.  Crew will be reduced to the minimum statutory manning for safe operation of the vessel, probably 25-30 officers and crew, and machinery will be kept running to provide light and AC to keep the humidity inside under control, though at a significantly higher temperature.  Typically, ports have no problems allowing this type of layup, as the statutory safe manning is maintained.  If manning is reduced below the statutory minimum, the certificate of class comes into question as to validity, and the ship is now considered to be unseaworthy, and this is when ports have issues with storing ships in their areas in this condition, as the ship may not be capable of getting underway if the anchor drags, mooring lines part, or severe weather is forecast.

[Callythecat]

Grandeur will be leaving Baltimore on March 26, 2021. Enchantment will replace her.

[marci22]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:31 AM, zonacruiser25 said:

WOW!  January, business as usual.  February, Houston we have a problem!  March, OMG the world is ending!  April, now what the hell do we do?  May, lets start throwing things at the wall and see what sticks.

 

I like your summary.

[BND]

On 5/10/2020 at 3:18 AM, Saab4444 said:

What better sense do you need? Cold layup simply means engines for driving off and parked in an industrial port, could be for a week or some months and just saves costs.

Not exactly.  My DH is a retired US Navy Captain and he was saying what a big deal it is to do cold layups and what it takes to get ships back into service.  Point is, they wouldn't be discussing cold vs warm if they thought this was going to be short lived enough to not warrant it.  Until they are at what they consider full enough capacity to do so, you'll see some ships out of service.  We have a few cruises booked between Nov 2020 and Nov 2021 and hope they go as planned, at least the ones in 2021.  

 

Cheng knows more about this than we do, but my DH was talking from his perspective of the US Navy.  Cold layup can mean indefinite pull from service.  We were discussing which ships we though might be impacted.  Not sure from which angle RCI is looking at this.  Large vs small, older vs newer, port related, etc.

Edited May 12, 2020 by BND

[Jack McGowan]

Does San Juan want cruise ships? I heard Freedom couldn't dock in there on her final cruise before the cancellations began. She could be one of the larger ships to enter some form of "cold layup", in Europe as she is being sent to the UK. Just a thought as I think we are all in agreement Empress & Majesty will either enter cold layup or be transferred/sold when they get to Europe.

[bigeck]

13 minutes ago, Jack McGowan said:

Does San Juan want cruise ships? I heard Freedom couldn't dock in there on her final cruise before the cancellations began. She could be one of the larger ships to enter some form of "cold layup", in Europe as she is being sent to the UK. Just a thought as I think we are all in agreement Empress & Majesty will either enter cold layup or be transferred/sold when they get to Europe.

Anthem, Adventure and Vision met at Labadee, Anthem is now heading towards San Juan as is Freedom. Not sure if they are going to meet up.

Anthem will be starting a 40 day sailing to Goa once the proper crew have been exchanged

[Blizzard54]

I am thing that they are still selling everything because they have not decided what ships will not be sailing yet.  They probably have preferences but a lot may depend on what ports can open and when.  There will of course be a lot of shuffling of booking when they announce the individual layups.  

[Jack McGowan]

4 minutes ago, Blizzard54 said:

I am thing that they are still selling everything because they have not decided what ships will not be sailing yet.  They probably have preferences but a lot may depend on what ports can open and when.  There will of course be a lot of shuffling of booking when they announce the individual layups.  

Do you think that they will “announce the layups” as such? I can’t see them doing a release listing which ships are being laid up exactly but we might be able to guess based on movements and port restrictions?

[PattiHere]

On 5/10/2020 at 12:51 PM, ecslady said:

 

I'll be in the same situation as I moved a cruise to a June 2021 Empress sailing.  If that is the case, I'm sure it will be handled in a similar manner as other cancelled sailings have been in the past.

 

However, while many feel the Empress may be one of the first to go, I hope not.  This ship has a smaller passenger capacity which might make it more attractive to ports that may try to limit tourist capacity going forward.  The ship can also get into the smaller ports in Bermuda, and depending on what happens with the election in November, perhaps cruises to Cuba will be back and Empress will resume those itineraries. It may also be easier to Royal to clean and sanitize, since it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the mega ships. At this point, I'd prefer to be on a smaller ship, rather than one with 5000 guests.

 

Guess we will all have to wait and see what happens in the coming months.

 

 

 

Totally agree.  I have been on the Empress, and love the "old" lady.   This is how cruising use to be, a great ship and would be perfect to sail on while we are dealing with this virus.    I am booked to sail on her in February 2021 and cannot wait to get on her again.

[Blizzard54]

24 minutes ago, Jack McGowan said:

Do you think that they will “announce the layups” as such? I can’t see them doing a release listing which ships are being laid up exactly but we might be able to guess based on movements and port restrictions?

I do not expect they will announce a cold layup until they actually do it.  I expect Royal will start some Caribbean first.  I expect it will not be until at least mid August, maybe September.  Assuming Carnival's announced startup Aug. 1 does not have too many issues.  This assumes that there is not too big a flare up in new cases.  If there is another spike in the Fall, it may all get shut down until Spring.  I am sure Royal is working on a number of scenarios that can change at anytime. 

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Blizzard54 said:

I am thing that they are still selling everything because they have not decided what ships will not be sailing yet.  They probably have preferences but a lot may depend on what ports can open and when.  There will of course be a lot of shuffling of booking when they announce the individual layups.  

 

I'm wondering if they don't cancel everything for 2020 after their last 30 day announcement is made and rebook the fall fresh at limited capacity.

 

Just a guess

[Blizzard54]

16 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I'm wondering if they don't cancel everything for 2020 after their last 30 day announcement is made and rebook the fall fresh at limited capacity.

 

Just a guess

I pretty much expect that the rest of 2020 will be cancelled.  They may try to start up with Christmas 2020.  I am sure it will depend a lot on how things shape up with the flu season.  Unfortunately, I believe that for the time being they will stick with the one month at a time cancellations until they believe that a longer announcement will not overwhelm the call centers.  If enough people lift and shift out of the fall and winter time periods that could make it easier.