CDC No Sail Order July 16 Update

[xDisconnections]

53 minutes ago, linz98144 said:

I haven't been following cases in Florida, are a large portion of the new cases attributed to Disneyworld? 

While there might be some linked to the opening of WDW (or Universal which has been open for a very long time now), we don’t have any way to confirm if it is playing a part or if anyone is actually getting it from there. The majority of new cases are in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach County. This tri-county area is commonly referred to as South Florida.

Edited July 17, 2020 by xDisconnections

[airdale]

"My thoughts only", I have read (no I don't have any links, but you can do a search if it is important to you) where the cruise line in Taiwan is resuming, using EU cruising standards.  Also some of those EU lines are suppose to start up soon, so they will also show how those EU guideline put in place are working.  I also read this morning that a fishing trawler had left Argentina and was out to sea for 35 days...they had all mandatory quarantined for 14 days PRIOR and all had tested NEGITIVE for CORVID 19 PRIOR to boarding the ship.  BUT they returned to port after some of the crew started having symptoms and 57 of the 61 crew tested POSITIVE in a new test.  Hum?  I have also read where some cruise lines are planning and some countries are requiring a negative COVID 19 test results taken 72 hours prior to cruising or entering these countries.  How can a person today...get tested and get the results back and cruise all within 72 hours?  Kissing 2020 goodbye.  Don

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

While there might be some linked to the opening of WDW (or Universal which has been open for a very long time now), we don’t have any way to confirm if it is playing a part or if anyone is actually getting it from there. The majority of new cases are in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach County. This tri-county area is commonly referred to as South Florida.

True, but Hisllborough and Orange County (Disneyworld) are hotspots also, not necessarily from the openings.  

Edited July 17, 2020 by jimbo5544

[airdale]

I think any Disneyworld created COVID 19 cases won't really show up until August, sometime when all those visitors return to their home states, get sick, and those states start tracking each individual's travel and contacts prior to them getting sick.

[xDisconnections]

11 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

True, but Hisllborough and Orange County (Disneyworld) are hotspots also, not necessarily from the openings.  

Sure but our three countries pretty much are thought of as the same. Hillsborough and Orange are bad but not as bad as South Florida.

[jimbo5544]

Just now, xDisconnections said:

Sure but our three countries pretty much are thought of as the same. Hillsborough and Orange are bad but not as bad as South Florida.

I do not disagree, and I also knew you knew where those two counties were, was posting for others info.  

[jimbo5544]

9 minutes ago, airdale said:

I think any Disneyworld created COVID 19 cases won't really show up until August, sometime when all those visitors return to their home states, get sick, and those states start tracking each individual's travel and contacts prior to them getting sick.

I agree on this also, they did open for annual pass holders and DVC earlier, but the point is still a good one. 

[xDisconnections]

Just now, jimbo5544 said:

I agree on this also, they did open for annual pass holders and DVC earlier, but the point is still a good one. 

APs are pretty limited but they did just open up some more availability to make reservations.

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

APs are pretty limited but they did just open up some more availability to make reservations.

The process is complicated and convoluted.  I am not sure how they keep it all straight.   We are supposed to be with one of our daughter and her family (they are DVC and AP) staying at Bay Lake Towers in September, we will see of that comes to pass.  If not, it will be cancelled trip number 10.....

Edited July 17, 2020 by jimbo5544

[xDisconnections]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

The process is complicated and convoluted.  I am not sure how they keep it all straight.   

Not sure. I just dropped my passes — the modified experience and reservation system is not what I’m looking for. I’ll get passes there again as soon as I’m ready. 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Is it dishonesty or is it the only way cruise lines can survive right now? Personally I have not booked any cruises since March when things started going down hill, since I prefer my money to make me money, not help the cruise lines.  
 

However, I am grateful for everyone out there who continues to book cruises and give money to cruise lines. They are helping keep the cruise lines from going under. Without all these people continuing to book cruises, you would likely see cruise line(s) declaring bankruptcy in the near future. 
 

I enjoy cruising as much as anyone. Over the last 3 years my wife and I have been on 27 cruises so it has been a big change this year with one cruise after another being cancelled.  However, I have enough interests in life that I would be fine if I never went on another cruise, which is why I will not book any more cruises until if/when cruise lines resume operations. 

  Perhaps it's both.
  But if it takes cheating to survive, then today's cruise lines ought to fold ... that's  the same standard we'd hold for any business. 
   I won't believe it, though, til the boards dump their fleets of overpaid and under-performing executives.
    Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a team of talented and honest professionals tackle the question of "how do we cruise safely?" Shove CLIA's obstructionists out of the way & try some industrywide cooperation toward solutions (instead of another raft of whining, misdirection,

excuses and executive bonuses)

     

[PhillyFan33579]

2 hours ago, gatour said:

I find the comparison to Walt Disney World apropos.  Walt Disney World and cruise ships have similar crowd patterns.  I.E.  people standing in lines, going to shows, bunching up.  The difference is that the CDC can dictate what the cruise lines do, but not what Walt Disney World does in regards to opening up.  I imagine if CDC had the authority, they would not have allowed Walt Disney World to reopen.  

Comparing a cruise ship to Walt Disney World is like comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Cruise ships have a much smaller footprint than the various parks in Disney World. It’s much easier to enforce social distancing and control crowds in Disney World than on a cruise ship. I will find out first hand in a few weeks when the blackout dates on our Annual Silver Passes end. 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Comparing a cruise ship to Walt Disney World is like comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Cruise ships have a much smaller footprint than the various parks in Disney World. It’s much easier to enforce social distancing and control crowds in Disney World than on a cruise ship. I will find out first hand in a few weeks when the blackout dates on our Annual Silver Passes end. 

Good luck, the path is convoluted.  Btw, see my point, I previously mentioned?

[beerman2]

12 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

This reminds me of a local news story. We have a known "vaction" destination up here in Ohio where people come to relax and have a good time. The news has been touting that "66 people tested positive for COVID". People are panicking and saying it is so dangerous to go. When in reality, they tested about 1000 people, and the positive rate was in line with the rest of the US at about 6%. Not to say caution doesn't need to be had, but all in all, deceptive news as usual. Vacation = bad. Protest = good.

 

People see numbers and hear news, thinking that is all that exists. Can anyone prove that ANY other gathering hasn't had COVID?

 

 

Know both PIB  and Kelley's Island very well. There is NO way Social Distancing is happening at PIB.

 

Been to KI twice so far and SD isn't bad. Have absolutely NO desire to go to PIB.

[phoneman69]

On 7/16/2020 at 4:07 PM, HaveWeMetYet said:

July 16, 2020 Update

On July 16, 2020, CDC extended the No Sail Order and Suspension of Further Embarkation; Notice of Modification and Extension and Other Measures Related to Operations signed by the CDC Director on April 9, 2020—subject to the modifications and additional stipulated conditions as set forth in this Order. The Order is effective upon signature and will be published in the Federal Register.

This Order is in effect until one of the following occurs:

• The expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency,
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• September 30, 2020.

So the article said 9 ships were still dealing with Covid-19 case. What ships and how ? with all lines in isolation i don't see how this is possible

[Nic6318]

16 hours ago, linz98144 said:

I haven't been following cases in Florida, are a large portion of the new cases attributed to Disneyworld? 

 

Hi

 

They did just reopen. I would think it would take a few weeks to see a result. Of course you necessarily need to be looking for a result. Don't forget, not all Disney guests come from one location, so you get increased travel, resulting in more opportunity for a continued spread, including into areas where the virus may have been under control.

[ctkathchick]

On 7/17/2020 at 8:39 AM, TerReuv said:

 

Yes, I do mean that the public health emergency will continue throughout this year.  With cases surging as well as deaths, especially in Florida, Texas & California (3 home port states), it just won't be safe.  

 

We have a cruise booked for the end of October and have no illusions that it will happen.  I am just waiting on Carnival to cancel and I will rebook for 2022.  As long as there are people who are ignoring the warnings to wear a mask, this isn't going down in any discernible way.

Do you have any idea what Carnival is offering ? I have a cruise booked for October as well as December and I am trying to figure which way would be the best way to proceed. If we pay and let them cancel we are looking for the biggest credit to maximize or having to be canceled otherwise I'm looking to just reschedule for next year.

[Joebucks]

1 hour ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

It’s not over for the simple reason that is best explained by showing Cruise pass history (in millions)

1980 1.4

1990 3.8

2000 7.2

2010 18.4

2018 28.2
 

Because of cruise ship companies greed to cram as many people on ships as possible, it makes cruising very unappealing when there is risk of spreading infectious diseases as there is no where you can go to be safe (unless you hibernate in your cabin all week but I can do that at home)

 

Also to those who think it’ll be over by November , stop making me laugh 😂 

 

The "spread of infectious disease" in public is not a new thing. Noro has hit cruise ships many many times. For as much as people hate the comparison, so has the flu.

 

While you are right, it does make it unappealing to some, it doesn't for everyone. I was on a cruise in March. I can assure you there were plenty of people not fearing that they had no place to hide. Somehow, the ship didn't turn into a petri dish either.

 

What is more unappealing to some people is not knowing if your cruise is going to even sail. If it does, having to wear a mask, and follow other guidelines. Not knowing if you will be quarantined for 14 days either at sea or at home. And all of the other panic surrounding it.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

12 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

The "spread of infectious disease" in public is not a new thing. Noro has hit cruise ships many many times. For as much as people hate the comparison, so has the flu.

 

While you are right, it does make it unappealing to some, it doesn't for everyone. I was on a cruise in March. I can assure you there were plenty of people not fearing that they had no place to hide. Somehow, the ship didn't turn into a petri dish either.

I was also on a cruise in March (last one on the Edge before everything got shut down)

 

The ship did not turn into a Petri dish because everyone was cautious and making the right decisions for safety.  We met a lot of nice people and socially distanced when we chatted, never shook hands or hugged, staff made sure everyone washed hands before entering the buffet.

 

Its all about being smart.  And that was a time when the virus spread was low.  Today, you couldn’t pay me to get on a cruise ship

 

If we could understand what is right and wrong behavior, I might be OK with cruising.  But when it becomes about what side of the political fence you fall,  count me out

Edited July 18, 2020 by Luckiestmanonearth

[Joebucks]

4 minutes ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

I was also on a cruise in March (last one on the Edge before everything got shut down)

 

The ship did not turn into a Petri dish because everyone was cautious and making the right decisions for safety.  We met a lot of nice people and socially distanced when we chatted, never shook hands or hugged, staff made sure everyone washed hands before entering the buffet.

 

Its all about being smart.  And that was a time when the virus spread was low.  Today, you couldn’t pay me to get on a cruise ship

 

If we could understand what is right and wrong behavior, I might be OK with cruising.  But when it becomes about what side of the political fence you fall,  count me out

 

Yup, many cruise ships operated just fine. That was even without a lot of the stuff we know now.

 

Just curious, how do you know the virus spread was low at the time? Testing was low at that time.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

9 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

Yup, many cruise ships operated just fine. That was even without a lot of the stuff we know now.

 

Just curious, how do you know the virus spread was low at the time? Testing was low at that time.

I don’t know but just a logical guess is all

[jimbo5544]

I see nothing in this article which references to CDC extension of the no sail order, which talks to anything the cruise lines can do to change the CDC minds about future sailings.  For the most part it discusses what happened months ago on the Diamond Princess, a February Nile cruise, four RCCL ships and the navy outbreak.  For the record, all of these occurred (with the navy being the possible exception) prior to any changes or measures being implemented or considered.  The article talks about crew close proximity and other factors.  Based on this, my new line of thinking is that the CDC will not rescind or open the no sail order until the virus is either mostly contained or a vaccine is widely available.  Hope I am wrong.

 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/cdc-stance-remains-cruise-ships-pose-greater-risk-covid-19-transmission-other-settings

[BlerkOne]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I see nothing in this article which references to CDC extension of the no sail order, which talks to anything the cruise lines can do to change the CDC minds about future sailings.  For the most part it discusses what happened months ago on the Diamond Princess, a February Nile cruise, four RCCL ships and the navy outbreak.  For the record, all of these occurred (with the navy being the possible exception) prior to any changes or measures being implemented or considered.  The article talks about crew close proximity and other factors.  Based on this, my new line of thinking is that the CDC will not rescind or open the no sail order until the virus is either mostly contained or a vaccine is widely available.  Hope I am wrong.

 

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/cdc-stance-remains-cruise-ships-pose-greater-risk-covid-19-transmission-other-settings

 

Cruise lines canceling cruises does nothing to address virus concerns. The virus is not going to disappear in time. A miracle should not be plan A.

 

Read the CDC paper if you want to learn about the CDC requirements and the lack of acceptable responses from cruise lines. One of the reasons cruise lines are having 3 different covid conferences/working groups is to try to pressure the CDC into ignoring science and their own guidelines.

 

 

[airdale]

jimbo5544, have you read the news article about the Argentina fishing trawler being out 35 sea days, the crew having quarantined for 14 days and all tested negative prior to sailing?  Some crew started getting sick while out and when they arrived in port, 57 of the 61 member crew tested positive for COVID 19!  HUM?  Don

[Saint Greg]

6 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

I was also on a cruise in March (last one on the Edge before everything got shut down)

 

The ship did not turn into a Petri dish because everyone was cautious and making the right decisions for safety.  We met a lot of nice people and socially distanced when we chatted, never shook hands or hugged, staff made sure everyone washed hands before entering the buffet.

 

Its all about being smart.  And that was a time when the virus spread was low.  Today, you couldn’t pay me to get on a cruise ship

 

If we could understand what is right and wrong behavior, I might be OK with cruising.  But when it becomes about what side of the political fence you fall,  count me out

 

I was on Panorama when it was held over an extra day due to a COVID-19 scare. There was no social distancing that extra day. A lot of people went to bed early but other than that...the bars were packed. There wasn't any distancing there or in food lines or shows or anything like that.

 

https://saintgregtravel.com/panorama-coronavirus-day/