MSC resume cruising

[AnnieC]

39 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Because when you drive around the U.K. you aren’t up close and personal with thousands of other people, as you are on a cruise. Round U.K. cruises don’t reduce the risk one jot. Even most of the cruise lines know that cruising is not yet safe. If they thought differently they would be making one hell of a fuss about the need to resume full schedules ASAP. They aren’t for a reason. 

Quite. There is a reason the Hurtigruten cruise off Norway resulted in 42 crew members and 29 passengers (the most recent count I can find) testing positive for covid.

[Bazrat]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

Because when you drive around the U.K. you aren’t up close and personal with thousands of other people, as you are on a cruise. Round U.K. cruises don’t reduce the risk one jot. Even most of the cruise lines know that cruising is not yet safe. If they thought differently they would be making one hell of a fuss about the need to resume full schedules ASAP. They aren’t for a reason. 

Actually one of the reasons they are not cruising as you know well because of the government will not give the go ahead, they said flying was safe we know that’s not correct just look at tui, as for walking around your local town just look how many people are not wearing masks, after seeing what MSC are proposing we are prepared to give it a go if they sail from the UK 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Bazrat

[Selbourne]

19 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Actually one of the reasons they are not cruising as you know well because of the government will not give the go ahead, they said flying was safe we know that’s not correct just look at tui, as for walking around your local town just look how many people are not wearing masks, after seeing what MSC are proposing we are prepared to give it a go if they sail from the UK 

The government aren’t recommending cruising for the reason I said. They know it isn’t safe yet. The same scientists (worldwide) who say that cruising isn’t safe consider flying to be much safer. I wouldn’t do it personally, but I understand the science as it’s a completely different beast, in terms of numbers, duration etc than a cruise. People not wearing masks in town centres is irrelevant. Zero risk, unless they go inside shops etc.

[Bazrat]

21 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The government aren’t recommending cruising for the reason I said. They know it isn’t safe yet. The same scientists (worldwide) who say that cruising isn’t safe consider flying to be much safer. I wouldn’t do it personally, but I understand the science as it’s a completely different beast, in terms of numbers, duration etc than a cruise. People not wearing masks in town centres is irrelevant. Zero risk, unless they go inside shops etc.

We have a different interpretation of risk I wear a mask every time I go into town, flying anywhere is very risky I would not do it, as for cruising as I mentioned MSC are cruising and do not seam to have a problem unless you know different.

[Selbourne]

11 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

We have a different interpretation of risk I wear a mask every time I go into town, flying anywhere is very risky I would not do it, as for cruising as I mentioned MSC are cruising and do not seam to have a problem unless you know different.

My interpretation of risk is based purely on the science. Like you, I wouldn’t risk flying, but your chances of getting the virus in the outdoors in a town are virtually zero. MSC wouldn’t know if they have a problem or not. The cruises are too short to tell. It takes 2 to 14 days after becoming infected to develop symptoms. Most people who get infected during a 7 night cruise won’t become symptomatic until they get home and that’s not being monitored properly. All that the 7 day cruises tell you is what the social distancing protocols look like. As for whether cruises are yet safe from an infection perspective, we will only really know when a good number of 3 week or longer cruises have operated and there have been no on board outbreaks. Obviously we have to start somewhere though. I’m very relieved that there are so many willing guinea pigs. We aren’t amongst them though!

[Bazrat]

Willing guinea pigs is a bit harsh you have already posted you have no intention of cruising for a long time, so we could debate the risks but I have neither the time or interest to do so, I am willing to see how MSC gets on and like you say what happens in a few weeks time if they become infected from cruising.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

but your chances of getting the virus in the outdoors in a town are virtually zero. 

Absolutely. And you see people walking in the countryside,  with virtually no one around, wearing masks.  What on earth is the point of wearing them in that sort of situation? 

[terrierjohn]

Just now, wowzz said:

Absolutely. And you see people walking in the countryside,  with virtually no one around, wearing masks.  What on earth is the point of wearing them in that sort of situation? 

They are protecting the wildlife, presumably!😕

[Bazrat]

15 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

They are protecting the wildlife, presumably!😕

I thought the wildlife was only modern day cruisers

[davecttr]

Think of this

 

I in 2000 of the population has COVID

Quick testing is say 90% accurate

World wide cruising, say 20 ships each with 3000 passengers

Weekly cruises and a 20 week summer season

 

1,200,000 'fresh' passengers

600 infected

60 sneak through the testing

an average of 3 per week

 

how long before it all goes pear shaped 😨

 

It does not matter how insignificant COVID is compared with other ways of dying because people are now conditioned in their response and for a large proportion of the cruising demographic COVID is dangerous

 

 

[Bazrat]

7 hours ago, davecttr said:

Think of this

 

I in 2000 of the population has COVID

Quick testing is say 90% accurate

World wide cruising, say 20 ships each with 3000 passengers

Weekly cruises and a 20 week summer season

 

1,200,000 'fresh' passengers

600 infected

60 sneak through the testing

an average of 3 per week

 

how long before it all goes pear shaped 😨

 

It does not matter how insignificant COVID is compared with other ways of dying because people are now conditioned in their response and for a large proportion of the cruising demographic COVID is dangerous

 

 

Ok I get it there are few on here who will not cruise because of this, but the never ending supply of selective data that is being pushed out on here might be of interest to those who do not wish to cruise and those who have doubts but as for us it as become meaningless, I will wait till the government removes the restrictions and as long as precautions are in place will cruise.

[cruisenewbie1976]

26 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Ok I get it there are few on here who will not cruise because of this, but the never ending supply of selective data that is being pushed out on here might be of interest to those who do not wish to cruise and those who have doubts but as for us it as become meaningless, I will wait till the government removes the restrictions and as long as precautions are in place will cruise.

And if you provide the correct data, you're accused of putting "spin" on it. Yet, it seems to be perfectly acceptable to spin in the direction of negativity! 

[janny444]

"I will wait till the government removes the restrictions and as long as precautions are in place will cruise."

 

The problem isn't having enough precautions in place but getting 100% of the people to abide by the precautions....human nature as it is that will never happen

 

[davecttr]

16 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

And if you provide the correct data, you're accused of putting "spin" on it. Yet, it seems to be perfectly acceptable to spin in the direction of negativity! 

But what is the correct data? you can't even compare between countries

 

As for my post being spin

 

UK has  1 in 2000 people with COVID-19

Say quick testing is 90% accurate?

1,200,000 people in sample

600 will have COVID

60 will test negative but are positive, average of course

spread over 20 weeks that 3 cases per week on average

 

You can spin that both ways!

> only 60 will will get false negatives out of 1.2 million tested

> 60 getting false negatives could cause mayhem for the cruise industry

 

toss the coin and choose heads or tails 😉

 

[davecttr]

10 minutes ago, janny444 said:

"I will wait till the government removes the restrictions and as long as precautions are in place will cruise."

 

The problem isn't having enough precautions in place but getting 100% of the people to abide by the precautions....human nature as it is that will never happen

 

........ and that includes the cruise lines and crews, the longer everything seems to be OK the sloppier they will get.

People are enthusing about MSC restart being successful. They have done 3 cruises so tested 9000 passengers so far, to early to tell if precautions are working. Several months successful cruises is what they need.

[Bazrat]

19 minutes ago, janny444 said:

"I will wait till the government removes the restrictions and as long as precautions are in place will cruise."

 

The problem isn't having enough precautions in place but getting 100% of the people to abide by the precautions....human nature as it is that will never happen

 

Than you might as well stay behind closed doors till there is an effective cure, because that is the only way you will be totally safe.

[Bazrat]

6 minutes ago, davecttr said:

........ and that includes the cruise lines and crews, the longer everything seems to be OK the sloppier they will get.

People are enthusing about MSC restart being successful. They have done 3 cruises so tested 9000 passengers so far, to early to tell if precautions are working. Several months successful cruises is what they need.

Ok like I said I get it you will not probably cruise till it’s 100% safe, my view is if there are adequate precautions in place we will cruise so my beloved tells me.

[Selbourne]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Absolutely. And you see people walking in the countryside,  with virtually no one around, wearing masks.  What on earth is the point of wearing them in that sort of situation? 

I agree, it’s daft, but I have some sympathy with the fact that an awful lot of people are confused or just don’t understand the science of Covid. Being retired, I had time to watch all the daily briefings, listen to all the experts being interviewed and read up on the science, so I feel that I have a pretty good grasp of what is zero risk, what is moderate (but acceptable) risk and what is higher risk. Understandably, most people don’t have the time or inclination to do all of that, so are heavily influenced by what they see in the media, or worse on social media, and a good deal of that is misinformed tosh.

 

As an example, a number of family and friends were expressing outrage at the beach scenes in Bournemouth and elsewhere some weeks ago and couldn’t understand why I was saying that it was a fuss about nothing. The media showed low level panned shots that looked as though you couldn’t put a pin between people. However, if you looked at overhead drone footage, people were in family groups that were at least 2 metres apart. Being in the outdoors, even walking past people in close proximity was virtually zero risk. People were saying “just wait for the outbreaks in a few weeks time” and of course it didn't happen because the risks were negligible. 
 

We have been out to pubs for meals and the control measures have been excellent. Again, negligible risks. Shops seem pretty well controlled as well, the only problems being thoughtless other customers who invade your personal space. I have been on a number of trains and there are so few people using them that, again, the risks are negligible. We have U.K. holidays booked in holiday cottages. Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable on a flight, but I can understand why it’s deemed lower risk than a cruise ship. Given the design of cruise ships and nature of cruising, I can fully understand why it is continuing to cause concern to governments and cruise lines alike and there is no easy fix. The social distancing measures will help (but not entirely solve the problem) but will create an experience that is not for everyone and doesn’t sound like a relaxing carefree holiday, which is what we all need. 

[janny444]

29 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Than you might as well stay behind closed doors till there is an effective cure, because that is the only way you will be totally safe.

Why would I have to do that....I can be reasonably " safe" without having to totally isolate myself indoors. Not sure what your point is....I was making the point that having precautions in place only work effectively  if everyone abides by the precautions....

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, Bazrat said:

Ok I get it there are few on here who will not cruise because of this, but the never ending supply of selective data that is being pushed out on here might be of interest to those who do not wish to cruise and those who have doubts but as for us it as become meaningless, I will wait till the government removes the restrictions and as long as precautions are in place will cruise.

Government health restrictions voiding insurance if you cruise affects us.

I had a pneumonia jab last week during blood tests and I am booked in for my first flu jab this month.

Hopefully a covid19 vaccine will be developed.

We like to sit on our balcony so wouldn't need a mask here.

If ship capacity is restricted then social distancing will be easier.

When walking around indoor wearing a mask would be acceptable but as land restaurants and bars are mask free  I would happily accept this on board ship and put a mask on once we stand up to depart the restaurant or bar.

Being restricted when getting off ships in port would be a massive dampener for us as we like to explore new and previously visited ports.

Graham

[wowzz]

20 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Being in the outdoors, even walking past people in close proximity was virtually zero risk. People were saying “just wait for the outbreaks in a few weeks time” and of course it didn't happen because the risks were negligible. 

Exactly Selbourne. The media are every bit as guilty as the government in whipping up a frenzy of paranoia.  

[Dermotsgirl]

15 minutes ago, janny444 said:

Why would I have to do that....I can be reasonably " safe" without having to totally isolate myself indoors. Not sure what your point is....I was making the point that having precautions in place only work effectively  if everyone abides by the precautions....

The trouble is, everything is so polarised these days.

 

You point out something fairly obvious , like all the precautions are as good as the people who are being asked to take the precautions, next thing you know someone comes along to tell you to ‘cower in your basement’ until there’s a vaccine! 

 

On the other hand, when I was going out for my daily government authorised exercise units in lockdown ( a socially distanced walk), I was told that I was ‘endangering lives’! 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Dermotsgirl

[Cathygh]

I have been on a flight, ( 2 actually) and I can say I felt safe. 100% compliance with masks. Reminders too wear them throughout the flight. I guess if you remove it to eat or drink you might forget to put it back on? Airplanes have new medical grade filters that circulate fresh air. 

All staff in the hotel I stayed in wore masks. I can say I felt safer there than in the uk where staff in restaurants are not wearing masks, even though I think the rules say they should?

I would be happy to try cruising again, I feel  much more confident now I have been abroad

Cathy

[janny444]

7 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

The trouble is, everything is so polarised these days.

 

You point or something fairly obvious , like all the precautions are as good as the people who are being asked to take the precautions, next thing you know someone comes along to tell you to ‘cower in your basement’ until there’s a vaccine! 
 

There will be people now " cowering  in their basements" but my view is life is for living not for quaking in the corner....and yes the " guidelines" are forever changing but from my own observations it is the social distancing and washing of hands ....not entirely sure about masks/gloves etc....that have been the main things that has brought this virus under some sort of control

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

The trouble is, everything is so polarised these days.

 

You point or something fairly obvious , like all the precautions are as good as the people who are being asked to take the precautions, next thing you know someone comes along to tell you to ‘cower in your basement’ until there’s a vaccine! 
 

Well said. We now consider most things to be safe enough to accept the minimal risks, but in our view, cruising remains far too risky - a view shared by governments and most cruise lines - and is about the only thing that we wouldn’t feel comfortable doing until we are vaccinated (which may hopefully be next year). That view is based on science and our knowledge of cruise ships, cruising and passenger behaviours, not paranoia. I can quite understand that some people are prepared to take the risk, so I am more than happy for cruises to recommence, but I fear that others are ignorant to the risks. As I type this, a lady who looks under 40 is being interviewed on Sky News about the long term effects of Covid-19. She can’t walk more than around 10 metres and has been left with major long term health problems. Experts are still unclear as to what the long term effects of the virus will be, but a lot of people seem not to fully recover.