MSC resume cruising

[wowzz]

24 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It would seem that a test taken a day or two prior to joining your cruise is probably the best way to ensure no one with the virus travels to the port, in that way the above issues should not occur.

But surely John, you could contract the virus during the two days after the test?

 

[Selbourne]

16 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It would seem that a test taken a day or two prior to joining your cruise is probably the best way to ensure no one with the virus travels to the port, in that way the above issues should not occur.

Makes sense, but I guess you’d have to be able to guarantee that everyone remained at home between the test and joining the cruise coach (along with the rest of their household) and they hadn’t mixed with anyone else in between. Of course, that wouldn’t work for those travelling by train, as they won’t be exclusively used by cruise passengers.  This, along with the very long incubation period, during which people are infectious, seems to be one of the almost insurmountable challenges of this wretched virus.
 

If I was under 50, slim and with no health issues, I think I would be happy to take my chances now, given that only 1 in 2,000 people is carrying the virus and, if I caught it, it might be unpleasant but not life threatening. Like the majority of cruisers, I can’t tick all of those boxes, so roll on an effective vaccine. 

[Esprit]

30 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

If I was under 50, slim and with no health issues, I think I would be happy to take my chances now, given that only 1 in 2,000 people is carrying the virus and, if I caught it, it might be unpleasant but not life threatening. Like the majority of cruisers, I can’t tick all of those boxes, so roll on an effective vaccine. 

Being slim and with no health issues, but just over 60, I'm happy to take my chances now🙏😇

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

But surely John, you could contract the virus during the two days after the test?

 

You could, and you could be struck by lightning as well, but other than having hourly testing I doubt you could give any guarantees about anyone being virus free. But as I have just posted on another thread, just how many of our posters have had this covid bug?

[wowzz]

10 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

You could, and you could be struck by lightning as well, but other than having hourly testing I doubt you could give any guarantees about anyone being virus free. But as I have just posted on another thread, just how many of our posters have had this covid bug?

Fair point - sometimes the fear of CV19 is worse than reality.

[nosapphire]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Fair point - sometimes the fear of CV19 is worse than reality.

 

It is the fear of being quarantined because of the fear of Covid that is the deterrent....

[Dermotsgirl]

12 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

 

It is the fear of being quarantined because of the fear of Covid that is the deterrent....

Yes, one case of Covid finds its way onboard, then there's the risk that the cruise becomes a lockdown in your cabin.  Or, if cases are linked to the cruise after you disembark, then you end up quarantining at home. 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, nosapphire said:

 

It is the fear of being quarantined because of the fear of Covid that is the deterrent....

Why?  All the current restart protocols are aimed at only quarantining those with symptoms, and not the entire ship.

[Dermotsgirl]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Why?  All the current restart protocols are aimed at only quarantining those with symptoms, and not the entire ship.

The protocols for a Covid 19 outbreak onboard have not been tested yet.  Although they think they can just quarantine those who are ill, it's not certain that this would be effective enough. In any event, the presence of C19 onboard would  probably make all sorts of other heightened measures kick in, affecting the cruise experience.  Not to mention the very presence of C19 would be a real downer - people would be wondering if they were going to be next. 

[Dermotsgirl]

5 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

You could, and you could be struck by lightning as well, but other than having hourly testing I doubt you could give any guarantees about anyone being virus free. But as I have just posted on another thread, just how many of our posters have had this covid bug?

However, lightning is not infectious 

[AnnieC]

21 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Why?  All the current restart protocols are aimed at only quarantining those with symptoms, and not the entire ship.

Unless I've misunderstood what happened, once Diamond Princess had cases on board the Japanese authorities took charge of protocols on board, not the cruise line. Unless something has changed, which seems unlikely, surely that would happen again, with the cruise lines having no say as to how it's handled.

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

 

It is the fear of being quarantined because of the fear of Covid that is the deterrent....

And additionally the fear that you won't get the cruise you thought you were getting because of last minute events outside P&O's control.

 

Example - A 7 night cruise to Norway on Iona. Looks very attractive with the long scenic fjord cruising on the way to Geiranger and Olden. I pay the balance, then they are not fjord cruising anymore and you end up in Bergen, Stavanger, Haugosund and Kristiansand which IMO are not in fjords 😱

[nosapphire]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Why?  All the current restart protocols are aimed at only quarantining those with symptoms, and not the entire ship.

The current restart protocols quoted by the various cruise lines may be aimed at anyone testing positive, but at the minute it seems very unlikely that any port will allow everybody else who was on board to cheerily disembark and disperse uninterrupted.

 

 

[AnnieC]

3 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

The current restart protocols quoted by the various cruise lines may be aimed at anyone testing positive, but at the minute it seems very unlikely that any port will allow everybody else who was on board to cheerily disembark and disperse uninterrupted.

 

 

Quite. 

[molecrochip]

If someone is symptomatic then they will be subject to a mandatory test. If they are confirmed by a PCR test, which can be done on board, their entire cabin will be isolated. Whilst they are awaiting their test result, they will remain in their cabin under similar rules to norovirus. Anyone who is identified as coming into contact with the infected individual, will be subject to a test, and asked to quarantine until the result is known. 

 

The current protocols adopted by MSC and being adopted by Aida and Costa, set-up a certain section of cabins to be used for isolation purposes. These will be off limits to general passengers for the entire cruise. They will be served by a dedicated team who themselves will live separate to the rest of the crew. They will have full PPE and have voluntarily signed up for this role. It will be supported by increased medical teams. Covid isolation, testing and treatment is expected to be free onboard to discourage anyone from not disclosing it.

 

Options are being considered to allow theatre shows/comedy acts etc to be broadcast to the TVs of those who have to isolate. Once you have two consecutive negative tests, you can rejoin the main cruise ship areas.

 

Arnold Donald has confirmed that each cruise will have Covid plans in place agreed with each port prior to arrival. For some ports that may mean a supply stop only if either the land or ship community risk is too high. It may include the odd port skipped. For some ports this will also include access to land based medical teams. The idea is generally not to restrict access to land for negative individuals beyond the need to be part of a tour bubble.

 

Onboard testing is now available. Remember Diamond princess - no onboard testing until Japan supplied it. It took 2 or 3 days for a result. Not the quick test is less than 90 minutes. A more detailed test, like what you get at a UK test centre, will take 2 or 3 hours on board ship. Ships will sail with plentiful supplies. In the event of an outbreak, it will be possible to test passengers before they disembark if they have onward travel. 

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, AnnieC said:

Unless I've misunderstood what happened, once Diamond Princess had cases on board the Japanese authorities took charge of protocols on board, not the cruise line. Unless something has changed, which seems unlikely, surely that would happen again, with the cruise lines having no say as to how it's handled.

My understanding is that all countries intending to be visited would have signed up to the restart protocols, and presumably if any country declined then the cruise lines would remove them from the itineraries.

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

If someone is symptomatic then they will be subject to a mandatory test. If they are confirmed by a PCR test, which can be done on board, their entire cabin will be isolated. Whilst they are awaiting their test result, they will remain in their cabin under similar rules to norovirus. Anyone who is identified as coming into contact with the infected individual, will be subject to a test, and asked to quarantine until the result is known. 

 

The current protocols adopted by MSC and being adopted by Aida and Costa, set-up a certain section of cabins to be used for isolation purposes. These will be off limits to general passengers for the entire cruise. They will be served by a dedicated team who themselves will live separate to the rest of the crew. They will have full PPE and have voluntarily signed up for this role. It will be supported by increased medical teams. Covid isolation, testing and treatment is expected to be free onboard to discourage anyone from not disclosing it.

 

Options are being considered to allow theatre shows/comedy acts etc to be broadcast to the TVs of those who have to isolate. Once you have two consecutive negative tests, you can rejoin the main cruise ship areas.

 

Arnold Donald has confirmed that each cruise will have Covid plans in place agreed with each port prior to arrival. For some ports that may mean a supply stop only if either the land or ship community risk is too high. It may include the odd port skipped. For some ports this will also include access to land based medical teams. The idea is generally not to restrict access to land for negative individuals beyond the need to be part of a tour bubble.

 

Onboard testing is now available. Remember Diamond princess - no onboard testing until Japan supplied it. It took 2 or 3 days for a result. Not the quick test is less than 90 minutes. A more detailed test, like what you get at a UK test centre, will take 2 or 3 hours on board ship. Ships will sail with plentiful supplies. In the event of an outbreak, it will be possible to test passengers before they disembark if they have onward travel. 

Is there not a problem that a person in contact may get a negative test because their viral load is not large enough but may be a few days later in which time they may have infected others.

 

The only way to prove that these protocols work is if it happens several times, which will result in the press having a field day!. Passengers infected on cruise ship etc 😨

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

My understanding is that all countries intending to be visited would have signed up to the restart protocols, and presumably if any country declined then the cruise lines would remove them from the itineraries.

Individual ports or regions may also refuse ships docking etc despite what the national government want.

 

Imagine it. Iona approaches Geiranger, hopefully they will have reported that they have a positive passenger aboard. The port authority says nobody leave the ship, locals demonstrate on the pier etc

 

A new age of plague ships?

Edited August 26, 2020 by davecttr

[Dermotsgirl]

4 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Is there not a problem that a person in contact may get a negative test because their viral load is not large enough but may be a few days later in which time they may have infected others.

 

The only way to prove that these protocols work is if it happens several times, which will result in the press having a field day!. Passengers infected on cruise ship etc 😨

It’s a lose/lose situation. Any Covid outbreak onboard will be reported negatively. If the protocols work and the infection is contained, there’ll still be negative reporting (floating Petri dishes etc). If the protocols don’t work and infection spreads amongst unconnected passengers, the publicity would be even worse.

 

[Dermotsgirl]

6 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Individual ports or regions may also refuse ships docking etc despite what the national government want.

 

Imagine it. Iona approaches Geiranger, hopefully they will have reported that they have a positive passenger aboard. The port authority says nobody leave the ship, locals demonstrate on the pier etc

 

A new age of plague ships?

That’s one of the things that bothers me about this. If there is a Covid outbreak onboard, passengers may not be allowed ashore, even if they are in a bubble.

 

Unless they intend to test people before they go on an excursion in the event of an onboard outbreak.  But constant testing is not my idea of a holiday. 

 

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Dermotsgirl said:

It’s a lose/lose situation. Any Covid outbreak onboard will be reported negatively. If the protocols work and the infection is contained, there’ll still be negative reporting (floating Petri dishes etc). If the protocols don’t work and infection spreads amongst unconnected passengers, the publicity would be even worse.

 

Maybe if we all stopped watching the TV news and news channels, and buying newspapers or checking the internet, they would get the message and start reporting a higher percentage of positive news stories.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Anyone who is identified as coming into contact with the infected individual, will be subject to a test, and asked to quarantine until the result is known. 

And, with 3000 pax and 800 crew, how do you identify who has come into contact with anyone else? Standing next to someone on the prom deck, an adjacent table in the restaurant etc.?

Let's face it, cruising faces an uphill struggle to convince anyone that 4000 people in a floating block of flats is not a serious infection risk.  

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

And, with 3000 pax and 800 crew, how do you identify who has come into contact with anyone else? Standing next to someone on the prom deck, an adjacent table in the restaurant etc.?

Let's face it, cruising faces an uphill struggle to convince anyone that 4000 people in a floating block of flats is not a serious infection risk.  

Boring!!!!!!!

[Até]

Just now, wowzz said:

And, with 3000 pax and 800 crew, how do you identify who has come into contact with anyone else? Standing next to someone on the prom deck, an adjacent table in the restaurant etc.?

MSC now gives every passenger an RFI bracelet that in addition to allowing contactless on board transactions allows contact tracing so they can tell where an infected passenger has been, who has been in close contact with them and for how long.  Uphill battle, yes.

[Bazrat]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

And, with 3000 pax and 800 crew, how do you identify who has come into contact with anyone else? Standing next to someone on the prom deck, an adjacent table in the restaurant etc.?

Let's face it, cruising faces an uphill struggle to convince anyone that 4000 people in a floating block of flats is not a serious infection risk.  

They have the technology to track the guests on board, I watched a video by Emma cruises and was rather impressed what they achieved.