MSC resume cruising

[molecrochip]

35 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

Agree. There are other costs too associated with these cruises. Yellow fever vaccine, malaria tablets etc. The costs all mount up.

Not on those cruises. N101 is only USA & Caribbean, N102 is only Caribbean.

[dritan]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

The potential need to stop again. When you restart, you want to restart once.

 

If P&O has to stop again either because of a second wave or uncontainable outbreak onboard, then problems include PR damage, soaring costs with ship with full crew and even risk of legal action.

 

Go too late and customers desert you, stock market loses faith and you waisted money during prolonged zero revenue period.

 

There is only one chance to get it right. I’m glad picking that point is not my job.

I suspect they are as avidly watching what happens with MSC and Costa, as much as we are.  Just depends how quick they can move, if the MSC and Costa cruises go well ( and by that, I mean they effectively handle any cases on board, rather than that they have no cases whatsoever).  As you say, they won't want to miss an opportunity to generate revenue - if others have done it successfully.

[jeanlyon]

Where was it going that you might need yellow fever and malaria tablets?

[Ardennais]

18 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Where was it going that you might need yellow fever and malaria tablets?

Sorry! My mistake. This year’s Ventura cruise took us to Costa Rica, Panama and Colombia so we needed the Yellow Fever Vaccine and malaria tablets. The 2021 itineraries are different.

[Selbourne]

Am I alone in thinking that, social distancing measures aside, the current short cruises such as MSC won’t tell us anything? Current pre boarding screening methods are far from foolproof and people will have already boarded and most likely infected others if they are pre-symptomatic at the testing stage. Furthermore, Covid-19 can take up to 14 days from contracting it to showing symptoms. There is potential on any cruise of up to 14 days duration for someone (passenger or crew) who is infected to pass the virus on to lots of other people who may not develop any symptoms during the cruise, but become ill anything up to a week or two after they disembark at the end of the cruise.
 

You could quite conceivably have a situation where a lot of people get infected during a cruise but no link is made to the cruise ship as they don’t become ill until they are at home. Presumably the proposed protocols don’t include contacting all passengers 14 days after each cruise to monitor how many may have become infected during their cruise?

[molecrochip]

6 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Am I alone in thinking that, social distancing measures aside, the current short cruises such as MSC won’t tell us anything? Current pre boarding screening methods are far from foolproof and people will have already boarded and most likely infected others if they are pre-symptomatic at the testing stage. Furthermore, Covid-19 can take up to 14 days from contracting it to showing symptoms. There is potential on any cruise of up to 14 days duration for someone (passenger or crew) who is infected to pass the virus on to lots of other people who may not develop any symptoms during the cruise, but become ill anything up to a week or two after they disembark at the end of the cruise.
 

You could quite conceivably have a situation where a lot of people get infected during a cruise but no link is made to the cruise ship as they don’t become ill until they are at home. Presumably the proposed protocols don’t include contacting all passengers 14 days after each cruise to monitor how many may have become infected during their cruise?

Whilst its agreed that it takes 2 to 14 days for symptoms to show, if they do at all, by day 5 you should be positive in a test.

 

Whilst MSC are testing pre boarding and temperature checking at meal times, there is no doubt that longer cruises may need periodic testing. I know at least one cruise brand is considering onboard track and trace when you go into any public stateroom where you remove a mask. At other times you would continuing wearing the mask when walking around the ship, in lifts and shops etc.

 

This wont suit everyone but as someone who has gotten used to wearing a mask out, I'm ready to go.

[Snow Hill]

13 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Am I alone in thinking that, social distancing measures aside, the current short cruises such as MSC won’t tell us anything? Current pre boarding screening methods are far from foolproof and people will have already boarded and most likely infected others if they are pre-symptomatic at the testing stage. Furthermore, Covid-19 can take up to 14 days from contracting it to showing symptoms. There is potential on any cruise of up to 14 days duration for someone (passenger or crew) who is infected to pass the virus on to lots of other people who may not develop any symptoms during the cruise, but become ill anything up to a week or two after they disembark at the end of the cruise.
 

You could quite conceivably have a situation where a lot of people get infected during a cruise but no link is made to the cruise ship as they don’t become ill until they are at home. Presumably the proposed protocols don’t include contacting all passengers 14 days after each cruise to monitor how many may have become infected during their cruise?

The EU Healthy Gateways Protocols require disembarking passenger to complete a locator form, so should an outbreak occur post disembarkation they can be contacted and told to get tested and self isolate.

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Whilst its agreed that it takes 2 to 14 days for symptoms to show, if they do at all, by day 5 you should be positive in a test.

 

Whilst MSC are testing pre boarding and temperature checking at meal times, there is no doubt that longer cruises may need periodic testing. I know at least one cruise brand is considering onboard track and trace when you go into any public stateroom where you remove a mask. At other times you would continuing wearing the mask when walking around the ship, in lifts and shops etc.

 

This wont suit everyone but as someone who has gotten used to wearing a mask out, I'm ready to go.

I remain unconvinced. You could get infected towards the end of the cruise and have left the ship before you know. As for masks, I wear them where the law requires It, but really struggle with them and can’t wait to get them off. I would rather not go on any holiday, cruise or otherwise, where they are required. It would be an ordeal not a pleasure. TBH I’d rather stay at home than endure that. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Selbourne

[cruisenewbie1976]

4 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I remain unconvinced. You could get infected towards the end of the cruise and have left the ship before you know. As for masks, I wear them where the law requires It, but really struggle with them and can’t wait to get them off. I would rather not go on any holiday, cruise or otherwise, where they are required. It would be an ordeal not a pleasure. TBH I’d rather stay at home than endure that. 

I didn't think you were cruising again until there is a vaccine. So by that point you won't need to worry hopefully. Fingers crossed we get some good news on that front in the next few weeks. 

[Selbourne]

10 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

The EU Healthy Gateways Protocols require disembarking passenger to complete a locator form, so should an outbreak occur post disembarkation they can be contacted and told to get tested and self isolate.

Forgive my ignorance, but how does that work? It doesn’t seem watertight to me. People may become ill up to 14 days after disembarking and a lot of dots have to be joined to realise that it was contracted on the cruise ship (given that the person will have been in countless other places since the cruise). If someone tests positive after the cruise, is every passenger on the ship contacted?

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

I didn't think you were cruising again until there is a vaccine. So by that point you won't need to worry hopefully. Fingers crossed we get some good news on that front in the next few weeks. 

You are correct, but my points relate to the fact that I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that these MSC cruises are going to clarify everything and provide reassurance, when they will only really address social distancing protocols. My point about masks refered to all holidays. 

[Snow Hill]

6 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Forgive my ignorance, but how does that work? It doesn’t seem watertight to me. People may become ill up to 14 days after disembarking and a lot of dots have to be joined to realise that it was contracted on the cruise ship (given that the person will have been in countless other places since the cruise). If someone tests positive after the cruise, is every passenger on the ship contacted?

The locator forms are passed to the countries relevant public health authority who deal with the Trace & test/isolate, a similar process to what is done with airlines forms.

 

[Selbourne]

8 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

The locator forms are passed to the countries relevant public health authority who deal with the Trace & test/isolate, a similar process to what is done with airlines forms.

 

Thanks. As we know, that process is far from perfect and I remain unconvinced that a causal link would therefore be made to the specific cruise. I can see a situation where cruise ship outbreaks won’t become easily identifiable until long cruises (3 weeks and longer) recommence, as people will become ill whilst still on board. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Selbourne

[molecrochip]

17 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I remain unconvinced. You could get infected towards the end of the cruise and have left the ship before you know. As for masks, I wear them where the law requires It, but really struggle with them and can’t wait to get them off. I would rather not go on any holiday, cruise or otherwise, where they are required. It would be an ordeal not a pleasure. TBH I’d rather stay at home than endure that. 

I respect that view. Each to their own.

 

I want to go for some heat, sitting on balcony watching the sea go by while I catchup on some reading. Additionally its about the food in the MDR and Epicurean so not worried about buffets etc. I'm not there for much of the public room entertainment or drinking in bars etc. Not worried about getting off the ship at any port.

[terrierjohn]

30 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

You are correct, but my points relate to the fact that I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that these MSC cruises are going to clarify everything and provide reassurance, when they will only really address social distancing protocols. My point about masks refered to all holidays. 

It may not be the golden bullet, but it will inform us more accurately than wailing and gnashing our teeth, and throwing our toys out of the pram.

[Selbourne]

14 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I respect that view. Each to their own.

 

I want to go for some heat, sitting on balcony watching the sea go by while I catchup on some reading. Additionally its about the food in the MDR and Epicurean so not worried about buffets etc. I'm not there for much of the public room entertainment or drinking in bars etc. Not worried about getting off the ship at any port.

Yes, I can quite see how that would appeal to many people. As you say, we are all different. 2 days is the longest we prefer to go without getting off the ship and we like to do our own thing when we do. The thought of being herded like sheep on official tours only makes me twitch!

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

It may not be the golden bullet, but it will inform us more accurately than wailing and gnashing our teeth, and throwing our toys out of the pram.

True, but for the cruise industry to recover it needs to be able to ditch the ‘Petri dishes for the spread of viruses’ label. My concern about cruises of 14 nights or less is that they aren’t long enough to be able to nail that issue, as most people are likely to become ill once they return home, so being able to say that there were no outbreaks on board is only half the story.

[wowzz]

 Having read all the various well reasoned posts on this subject, I just have one observation.

If you are a government official, with no preconceptions, and knowing  that cruising is not economically significant to the UK, would you, as that individual, change the advice currently in force, as regards cruising?

I have to say, that at present, I can't see how anyone can argue that cruising is safe, in the sense that too many people are too closely confined for too long a period.

And, as Moley said, if you pull the trigger too soon and restart with subsequent infections, then your reputation is in tatters. 

The other side issue of course, is that of ports of call. The UK government might (big ask) allow cruising to proceed in the future, but severely limit shore excursions, even more so than in the current MSC cruise. 

I don't see the appeal  of a 7 day cruise in February in the North Sea, with no stops.

 

 

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The thought of being herded like sheep on official tours only makes me twitch!

Us too. 

Is it just me, but on the the few times we have been on a tour, there is always one couple who are always late back to the coach, totally oblivious to the time.

On our last tour, the whole coach got so fed up with one late couple, that there was almost a mutiny as the guide refused to leave, even though the couple were 15 minutes late. (Third time being late).

No, private tour or a taxi at the port for us.

[davecttr]

It seems to me that with the large throughput of passengers, the not total reliability of testing etc etc, the laws of probability would indicate that an 'incident' is a near certainty eventually. There have only been a few short cruises so far. I think I need several months of evidence before I would pay a final balance.

[Chrisdriving]

7 hours ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

I didn't think you were cruising again until there is a vaccine. So by that point you won't need to worry hopefully. Fingers crossed we get some good news on that front in the next few weeks. 

Chris Whitty is saying not to expect a safe vaccine until winter 21/22.

Lets be honest the virus is running rings around everyone at the moment ,we are not even over the first wave and winters creeping up and personally i am expecting everything to be locked down again.

i would love to be wrong but with the evidence i am  seeing i just cannot see it going any other way.

I am now even beginning to doubt our July 21 cruise will run,

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-foolish-to-assume-covid-19-vaccine-will-be-here-for-winter-whitty-12054756

Edited August 23, 2020 by Chrisdriving

[cruisenewbie1976]

2 hours ago, Chrisdriving said:

Chris Whitty is saying not to expect a safe vaccine until winter 21/22.

Lets be honest the virus is running rings around everyone at the moment ,we are not even over the first wave and winters creeping up and personally i am expecting everything to be locked down again.

i would love to be wrong but with the evidence i am  seeing i just cannot see it going any other way.

I am now even beginning to doubt our July 21 cruise will run,

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-foolish-to-assume-covid-19-vaccine-will-be-here-for-winter-whitty-12054756

As he says though, he's got to plan for there not to be a vaccine this year as it would be foolish to assume there will be one. They have to work to the worst case scenario. However, the best case scenario could be very very different. 

[Dermotsgirl]

2 hours ago, Chrisdriving said:

Chris Whitty is saying not to expect a safe vaccine until winter 21/22.

Lets be honest the virus is running rings around everyone at the moment ,we are not even over the first wave and winters creeping up and personally i am expecting everything to be locked down again.

i would love to be wrong but with the evidence i am  seeing i just cannot see it going any other way.

I am now even beginning to doubt our July 21 cruise will run,

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-foolish-to-assume-covid-19-vaccine-will-be-here-for-winter-whitty-12054756

I’m with you on this.

 

In the U.K.we seem to have been in a dip in cases, but the global pandemic is surging all around us. This is a long way from being over and the restrictions that we are under will be applicable for the foreseeable future.
 

We don’t yet know what P&O’s protocols will be, but they are unlikely to be conducive to the happy carefree cruising that I am used to.  I don’t want to spend thousands of pounds on an experience that I would find an ordeal rather than a relaxing cruise.

 

I’ve already written off my March 2021 Iona cruise, and I’m quite happy to lose the small deposit if necessary.

 

I’ve got two more cruises booked in October 21 and January 22.  I think we’ll still be living a restricted life even by then. These two cruises are ‘big’ cruises, as they are around the time of our 40th Wedding anniversary and my husband’s 70th birthday. However, I’ve lost all appetite for cruising in the Covid era, and I don’t envisage paying a five figure sum to have the pleasure of being swabbed for Covid every few days, wearing a mask every time I leave the cabin, doing tours of places I’ve always wanted to visit in a panoramic bubble and wondering if today is the day that the axe falls and Covid is present on the ship.

 

I’ll just have to wait and see what happens, but I doubt if we’ll go. Just hoping that, by the time we are due to pay, they are still not cancelling in. 4 week chunks after the balance payment is due! 

[molecrochip]

3 hours ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

As he says though, he's got to plan for there not to be a vaccine this year as it would be foolish to assume there will be one. They have to work to the worst case scenario. However, the best case scenario could be very very different. 

You make a very fair point. Chris Witty is taking the opportunity whilst Boris is away to emphasise the worst case scenario in the full knowledge that come two weeks time, Government will be back and banging the more optimistic drum.

 

The likely ultimate position is somewhere between the two.

[cruisenewbie1976]

4 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

You make a very fair point. Chris Witty is taking the opportunity whilst Boris is away to emphasise the worst case scenario in the full knowledge that come two weeks time, Government will be back and banging the more optimistic drum.

 

The likely ultimate position is somewhere between the two.

Having watched the whole interview (rather than the carefully edited scaremongering sky version), he acknowledged that we could have a vaccine this year and that's not something I've heard from him before.