CDC Lifts No Sail Order

[Sunshine3601]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't read it that way.  I see it saying that within 60 days, they have to get certain things done, not that they have to get them and then there is a 60 day period before starting.

If you refer to page 28 and footnote 18 - Applying for conditional sail certificate they need to have all of those items completed and documented at the time they submit at least 60 days prior to the date on which the cruise ship operator proposes to commence restricted passenger operations.    It is most likely going to take the cruise lines 30-days to construct/equip an on ship lab for PCR tests and pass the various inspections by USCG as well as satisfy the 28-day requirement for crew that still has to be flown in and trained on new protocols.   

They also have to do their test "simulated" cruise(s).

 

IF they get all of that done in November and submit their written request by December 1st.      

then the earliest sailing date would be February 1, 2021.       And that is, IF, the CDC and USCG get all inspections done in a timely manner.       December holidays will most likely slow down that process.   

 

I do not see any way for them to be sailing by January 1st.     

IMO the CDC, inspectors and USCG are not going to rush any of this along.

 

[bafinegan]

51 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

If you refer to page 28 and footnote 18 - Applying for conditional sail certificate they need to have all of those items completed and documented at the time they submit at least 60 days prior to the date on which the cruise ship operator proposes to commence restricted passenger operations.    It is most likely going to take the cruise lines 30-days to construct/equip an on ship lab for PCR tests and pass the various inspections by USCG as well as satisfy the 28-day requirement for crew that still has to be flown in and trained on new protocols.   

They also have to do their test "simulated" cruise(s).

 

IF they get all of that done in November and submit their written request by December 1st.      

then the earliest sailing date would be February 1, 2021.       And that is, IF, the CDC and USCG get all inspections done in a timely manner.       December holidays will most likely slow down that process.   

 

I do not see any way for them to be sailing by January 1st.     

IMO the CDC, inspectors and USCG are not going to rush any of this along.

 

 Technically, 60 days would be Jan 30....

[TomCruise48]

1 hour ago, Sunshine3601 said:

In contracts and legal document, the word "should" is advisory rather than mandatory.  I think what the CDC is saying is that for planning purposes the operator should allow up to 60 days for them to process the application.  They could process the application and render a decision in less time.

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, Tapi said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if MSC is the first cruise line to restart cruises from US ports. From

everything that I read, they seem to have their act together a bit more than the others. We’ll see...! 

...they seem to have their act together...

 

With 3, sometimes 4 sailings per year for the last few years on MSC, I can vouch for this. Not with COVID protocols but on ops in general. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by UPNYGuy

[Sunshine3601]

2 hours ago, TomCruise48 said:

In contracts and legal document, the word "should" is advisory rather than mandatory.  I think what the CDC is saying is that for planning purposes the operator should allow up to 60 days for them to process the application.  They could process the application and render a decision in less time.

Yes, that is very true but do you really think the CDC who wanted cruise ships to be suspended till February 28th is going to push anything thing thru fast.    How many cruise lines will be submitting their paperwork around the same time?   How long will it take for each ship that will be sailing to get their certifications with USC?    How many inspectors will they have available to review each ship for each cruise line?    Plus add to that, everything will slow down in December due to the various Holidays.   

[Sunshine3601]

2 hours ago, UPNYGuy said:

...they seem to have their act together...

 

With 3, sometimes 4 sailings per year for the last few years on MSC, I can vouch for this. Not with COVID protocols but on ops in general. 

I know that MSC was doing covid testing of passengers prior to embarkment.    Was that the rapid test or the laboratory PCR test?    Was that done at the terminal or did they set up labs on their ships?     Do you happen to know?

[UPNYGuy]

22 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I know that MSC was doing covid testing of passengers prior to embarkment.    Was that the rapid test or the laboratory PCR test?    Was that done at the terminal or did they set up labs on their ships?     Do you happen to know?

This is what I have at the moment: 

 

as far as I know, the first test is a rapid one, and if that one comes back positive a PCR is administered to double-check. The extra spaces were inserted in there to make it easier to read (copied from msc website) 

 

Combining new data and research into COVID-19, an improved understanding of the virus and how it behaves with the latest technology in screening and protecting people from possible contagion, the new operating protocol is designed to prevent and mitigate the risk of transmission during an MSC Cruises’ vacation. It includes the following pillars in terms of precautionary measures and response planning: 

 

1. Universal health screening of guests prior to embarkation that comprises three comprehensive steps: a temperature check, a health questionnaire and a COVID-19 swab test. Depending on the screening results and according to the guest’s medical or travel history, a secondary health screening or testing will take place. Any guest who tests positive, displays symptoms or a temperature will be denied boarding. Following guidelines from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, guests traveling from countries categorized as high risk will be required to take a molecular RT-PCR test, to be done within 72 hours prior to joining the ship. All crew members will be tested for COVID-19 prior to embarkation as well as regularly during their contract.
2.  
3. Elevated sanitation and cleaning measures supported by the introduction of new cleaning methods, the use of hospital-grade disinfectant products and the sanitation of the air on board with UV-C light technology that kills 99.97% of microbes.
4.  
5. Social distancing will be enabled through the reduction of the overall capacity of guests on board, allowing for more space for guests, approximately 10 m² (about 108 sq. ft) per person based on 70% overall capacity. Venue capacity will be reduced, activities will be modified to allow for smaller groups and guests will be able to pre-book services and activities to manage guest numbers. When social distancing is not possible, guests will be asked to wear a face mask, for instance in the elevators. Face masks will be provided daily to guests in their staterooms and will be available around the ship.
6.  
7. Enhanced medical facilities and services with highly qualified staff trained, the necessary equipment to test, evaluate and treat suspected COVID-19 patients and the availability of free treatment at the onboard Medical Center for any guest with symptoms. Dedicated isolation staterooms will be available to enable isolation of any suspected cases and close contacts.
8.  
9. Ongoing health monitoring will be conducted throughout the cruise. Guests and crew will have their temperature checked daily either when they return from ashore or at dedicated stations around the ship to monitor the health status of every guest and crew member. During this initial phase of operations, as a further enhanced measure of protection and to avoid risks to the health of guests and their fellow cruisers, guests will only go ashore as part of an organized MSC Cruises’ excursion. This means that MSC Cruises can protect their health while ashore with excursions that will be delivered with the same high standards of health and safety as on board. We will ensure that transfers are properly sanitized and that there is adequate space. Tour guides and drivers will also undergo health screening and will wear appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE).
10.  
11. A contingency response plan will be activated if a suspected case is identified, in close cooperation with the national health authorities. The suspected case and close contacts will follow isolation measures and may be disembarked according to local and national regulations.

 

From the moment a guest starts to plan and book to the moment they return home, MSC Cruises has assessed every touchpoint of their vacation to put in place the appropriate health and safety measures. Guests will be supported every step of the way with simple and practical information, clear booking conditions and supporting technology to make the process smooth and seamless.

Edited November 1, 2020 by UPNYGuy

[Sunshine3601]

7 minutes ago, UPNYGuy said:

This is what I have at the moment: 

 

as far as I know, the first test is a rapid one, and if that one comes back positive a PCR is administered to double-check. The extra spaces were inserted in there to make it easier to read (copied from msc website) 

 

Combining new data and research into COVID-19, an improved understanding of the virus and how it behaves with the latest technology in screening and protecting people from possible contagion, the new operating protocol is designed to prevent and mitigate the risk of transmission during an MSC Cruises’ vacation. It includes the following pillars in terms of precautionary measures and response planning: 

 

1. Universal health screening of guests prior to embarkation that comprises three comprehensive steps: a temperature check, a health questionnaire and a COVID-19 swab test. Depending on the screening results and according to the guest’s medical or travel history, a secondary health screening or testing will take place. Any guest who tests positive, displays symptoms or a temperature will be denied boarding. Following guidelines from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, guests traveling from countries categorized as high risk will be required to take a molecular RT-PCR test, to be done within 72 hours prior to joining the ship. All crew members will be tested for COVID-19 prior to embarkation as well as regularly during their contract.
2.  
3. Elevated sanitation and cleaning measures supported by the introduction of new cleaning methods, the use of hospital-grade disinfectant products and the sanitation of the air on board with UV-C light technology that kills 99.97% of microbes.
4.  
5. Social distancing will be enabled through the reduction of the overall capacity of guests on board, allowing for more space for guests, approximately 10 m² (about 108 sq. ft) per person based on 70% overall capacity. Venue capacity will be reduced, activities will be modified to allow for smaller groups and guests will be able to pre-book services and activities to manage guest numbers. When social distancing is not possible, guests will be asked to wear a face mask, for instance in the elevators. Face masks will be provided daily to guests in their staterooms and will be available around the ship.
6.  
7. Enhanced medical facilities and services with highly qualified staff trained, the necessary equipment to test, evaluate and treat suspected COVID-19 patients and the availability of free treatment at the onboard Medical Center for any guest with symptoms. Dedicated isolation staterooms will be available to enable isolation of any suspected cases and close contacts.
8.  
9. Ongoing health monitoring will be conducted throughout the cruise. Guests and crew will have their temperature checked daily either when they return from ashore or at dedicated stations around the ship to monitor the health status of every guest and crew member. During this initial phase of operations, as a further enhanced measure of protection and to avoid risks to the health of guests and their fellow cruisers, guests will only go ashore as part of an organized MSC Cruises’ excursion. This means that MSC Cruises can protect their health while ashore with excursions that will be delivered with the same high standards of health and safety as on board. We will ensure that transfers are properly sanitized and that there is adequate space. Tour guides and drivers will also undergo health screening and will wear appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE).
10.  
11. A contingency response plan will be activated if a suspected case is identified, in close cooperation with the national health authorities. The suspected case and close contacts will follow isolation measures and may be disembarked according to local and national regulations.

 

From the moment a guest starts to plan and book to the moment they return home, MSC Cruises has assessed every touchpoint of their vacation to put in place the appropriate health and safety measures. Guests will be supported every step of the way with simple and practical information, clear booking conditions and supporting technology to make the process smooth and seamless.

Thank you for gathering this information.   I couldn't recall their testing procedure as it seems like so long ago since I read it - LOL!    

I suspect RCL will still require for all passengers to have a PCR test done between 2 to 5 days prior to arrival at the dock as stated on their health panel.    

Again, we just have to wait and watch what happens. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I know that MSC was doing covid testing of passengers prior to embarkment.    Was that the rapid test or the laboratory PCR test?    Was that done at the terminal or did they set up labs on their ships?     Do you happen to know?

There are rapid PCR tests.

[lobster1313]

2 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Yes, that is very true but do you really think the CDC who wanted cruise ships to be suspended till February 28th is going to push anything thing thru fast.    How many cruise lines will be submitting their paperwork around the same time?   How long will it take for each ship that will be sailing to get their certifications with USC?    How many inspectors will they have available to review each ship for each cruise line?    Plus add to that, everything will slow down in December due to the various Holidays.   

At this point no one really knows if this was a true statement since there has been no verification that the information from Axios was true.  

[travelhound]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:20 AM, Calnev1 said:

I agree.  Regardless of actual effectiveness, an approved vaccine will flatten the fear enough.  Well, at least for hard core cruisers.

Yup, the hardcore cruisers will be first in line 🙂

 

[firefly333]

30 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

At this point no one really knows if this was a true statement since there has been no verification that the information from Axios was true.  

Idk what info from axios you mean tbh, but adding up all the hoops to be jumped thru, it would take a miracle for ccl to cruise in feb. Add in the month from the miami judge inspections of each ship to the other inspections. How long will it take to put a lab on each ship to do testing. 28 days before a ship reenter usa waters, plus 30, plus maybe 60. 

 

Even some blogger commented about the 28 days filing to reenter american waters and thought it sounded snarky, as if they were pissed that the ships went elsewhere. At least we now know what hoops have to be jumped thru.

[lobster1313]

1 minute ago, firefly333 said:

Idk what info from axios you mean tbh, but adding up all the hoops to be jumped thru, it would take a miracle for ccl to cruise in feb. Add in the month from the miami judge inspections of each ship to the other inspections. How long will it take to put a lab on each ship to do testing. 28 days before a ship reenter usa waters, plus 30, plus maybe 60. 

 

Even some blogger commented about the 28 days filing to reenter american waters and thought it sounded snarky, as if they were pissed that the ships went elsewhere. At least we now know what hoops have to be jumped thru.

Not 28 days that's something completely different. February 28th was the date Axios said that the CDC was going to extend the no sail in September but the Whitehouse intervened.

[travelhound]

On 10/31/2020 at 10:59 AM, TomCruise48 said:

Looks like RCL's and NCL's Healthy Sail Panel approach gave them a head start. 

This is good news, my first cruise is on RCL.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, regoodwinjr said:

Not 28 days that's something completely different. February 28th was the date Axios said that the CDC was going to extend the no sail in September but the Whitehouse intervened.

I asked who axios was. Of course it's not the same, but I'm saying with all the hoops to jump thru, cdc effectively extended the no sail thru feb imo. 

 

No idea why you confused the 28 days court order and 28 days to file if ship is outside us waters, both of which I mentioned, with axios. Plus there is another 60 day filing, and the lab to be built on each ship for testing. Lots of very difficult hoops to jump thru i hope ccl can do. 

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, travelhound said:

This is good news, my first cruise is on RCL.

My first one is on rcl as well. I feel they are a step ahead of ccl.

 

Unfortunately its ccl I have a bunch of stock in, praying they dont go bankrupt.

[lobster1313]

2 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I asked who axios was. Of course it's not the same, but I'm saying with all the hoops to jump thru, cdc effectively extended the no sail thru feb imo. 

 

No idea why you confused the 28 days court order and 28 days to file if ship is outside us waters, both of which I mentioned, with axios. Plus there is another 60 day filing, and the lab to be built on each ship for testing. Lots of very difficult hoops to jump thru i hope ccl can do. 

Axios is a news organization. Your the one confusing the conversation.Your talking about something completely different and has nothing to do with what I responded to.

[siestakeys04]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:22 PM, firefly333 said:

It says to volunteer for the pre cruise cruises, you have to have a doctors note you have no preconditions... like in my case, I couldn't because I'm 70. 

Oh okay. This is something.

[joepeka]

On 10/30/2020 at 2:34 PM, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Well both me and my wife are in our mid 70s. Our next booked one is for Jan 9, 2020. Hopefully By December they say the Vaccines are expected to be distributed and given to the elderly first. Then the first responders. At that point, will we be a continuation of the testing? We just got the NEW Shingles shot. To get the second one after two weeks. My wife handled the hurt for a day she did great. I did not. We were told, it would hurt. I figured it would be no different then the Flu shot. I was very wrong.

I would not bet on the elderly getting access to vaccines before first responder individuals. Maybe second in line after first responders but not before. FWIW, I'm in your age group and would like to be vaccinated ASAP but those out there protecting and serving us deserve first "shots." 😉

Edited November 1, 2020 by joepeka

[UPNYGuy]

5 hours ago, travelhound said:

Yup, the hardcore cruisers will be first in line 🙂

 

 

well this hardcore cruiser won’t be in line. I won’t cruise without a vaccine. I would much rather go to a land-based all inclusive for the time being. All inclusives are much larger than a cruise ship, and you have significantly more area to spread out. Plus, the last few Caribbean cruises the wife and I have treated the ship like an all inclusive (never actually disembarked at ports of call). 

[PhillyFan33579]

7 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Yes, that is very true but do you really think the CDC who wanted cruise ships to be suspended till February 28th is going to push anything thing thru fast.    How many cruise lines will be submitting their paperwork around the same time?   How long will it take for each ship that will be sailing to get their certifications with USC?    How many inspectors will they have available to review each ship for each cruise line?    Plus add to that, everything will slow down in December due to the various Holidays.   

I don’t think the CDC would sit on paperwork considering the pressure they are receiving from a higher level. Of course this could all change based on what happens next week. There is still a possibility the CDC will get its way and declare a no sail order in late January. 

[travelhound]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

My first one is on rcl as well. I feel they are a step ahead of ccl.

 

Unfortunately its ccl I have a bunch of stock in, praying they dont go bankrupt.

CCL is probably in the best financial shape to survive this crisis.  That said, I look forward to my cruise in March on RCL.

[firefly333]

Just listened to a blogger who pointed out that the cdc never addressed port excursions or imposed rules on them. 

[beerman2]

38 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I don’t think the CDC would sit on paperwork considering the pressure they are receiving from a higher level. Of course this could all change based on what happens next week. There is still a possibility the CDC will get its way and declare a no sail order in late January. 

Isn't getting the certificate to sail similar . Without the CDC issuing the certificate to sail they still can't sail. 

 

It's kinda semantics, the CDC was told not to extend so they reworked it.

 

Just seems to be their (CDC) way around extension. This still should hinder sailings until January.

[Moviela]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Plus there is another 60 day filing, and the lab to be built on each ship for testing. Lots of very difficult hoops to jump thru i hope ccl can do. 

 First, CCL has Shaq under contract, hoops will be no problem.

 

We use the rapid test for people needing access to our most secure film vaults. The unit is a bit larger than a microwave oven and sits on a counter top. It installs in an hour, and a day to verify calibration. 

 

The 60 day filing rule is a suggestion because of the specific language "should." The holidays will not slow anything because the agency has a duty to prevent significant financial harm to applicants. I believe they intend to be cooperative.