Well, that didn't last

[farmersfight]

27 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

riskiest place to be is in someone's home: your own, a family member's or a friend's.  The most transmissions are occurring via family gatherings.

 

This doesn't bode well for the upcoming holidays (Thanksgiving & Christmas)...

[Trimone]

Supermarkets are the most common place in England to contract coronavirus, new data has indicated.

Public Health England (PHE) retraced the steps and analysed the contacts of the 128,808 people using the NHS Test and Trace app to find where transmission is more likely to happen.

All had tested positive for Covid-19 between November 9 and November 15, Sky News reports.

Supermarkets have remained open throughout both national lockdowns.

The new data set suggests supermarkets are the primary place where the virus is being transmitted.

[BermudaBound2014]

3 hours ago, macandlucy said:

riskiest place to be is in someone's home: your own, a family member's or a friend's.  The most transmissions are occurring via family gatherings.

 

My Governor has prohibit any family gatherings of more than two households for Thanksgiving and Christmas. She doesn't have the authority to do this, so the bottom line is it is Voluntary, but we are being asked to refrain from all family gatherings over the holidays.

[Mercury]

On 11/18/2020 at 3:43 PM, DCGuy64 said:

I'd say *might* be mandatory, rather than "will." Cruising in Europe and Asia is underway and they aren't requiring a vaccine, but that could change. Then again, the cruise industry depends on paying customers, and if mandatory vaccines turn too many away, they might rethink it. Lastly, how would this be policed? Who would determine what constitutes proof of a vaccination? Could someone fraudulently obtain a certificate showing one had been vaccinated? Will the cruise lines administer vaccinations as a condition of boarding? Lots of unanswered questions about how this would play out, in my opinion.

 

Qantas is already stating that they will require proof of vaccine for international travel. So this could become the "norm" in future...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/qantas-other-airlines-covid-19-vaccine-proof-1.5813866

[DCGuy64]

3 hours ago, Mercury said:

 

Qantas is already stating that they will require proof of vaccine for international travel. So this could become the "norm" in future...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/qantas-other-airlines-covid-19-vaccine-proof-1.5813866

It could, or it could fail spectacularly when the flying public decides to boycott the airline and Qantas loses $millions. (I've already read comments where people say they'll never fly Qantas due to this decision). Germany has already ruled against so-called "COVID passports" that show a person's status because it could create an unconstitutional two-tiered society.

[Trimone]

Talking of Germany:

 

2C5761DE-8FCC-4D66-B1BE-29C8E438F002.webp

[Formula280SS]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

It could, or it could fail spectacularly when the flying public decides to boycott the airline and Qantas loses $millions. (I've already read comments where people say they'll never fly Qantas due to this decision). Germany has already ruled against so-called "COVID passports" that show a person's status because it could create an unconstitutional two-tiered society.

 

As mentioned in related topics, there is a common underlying "thread" of such ~

 

"Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is a paid up member of the World Economic Forum, the institution behind the Great Reset."

[BermudaBound2014]

22 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

 

As mentioned in related topics, there is a common underlying "thread" of such ~

 

"Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is a paid up member of the World Economic Forum, the institution behind the Great Reset."

 

That is terrifying. 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by BermudaBound2014

[OzCanuck]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

It could, or it could fail spectacularly when the flying public decides to boycott the airline and Qantas loses $millions. (I've already read comments where people say they'll never fly Qantas due to this decision). Germany has already ruled against so-called "COVID passports" that show a person's status because it could create an unconstitutional two-tiered society.

Well actually, Australian govts (state and federal) are considering vaccination as a prerequisite to arrival.  So yes you can boycott Qantas, but if you’re flying to Oz you may not have a choice. 

[bucfan2]

On 11/17/2020 at 7:12 AM, CruiseMH said:

What do you think why Spain,France, UK, Italy and Germany did close all these things for a few weeks in spring and are closing them right now again ? At least in germany 80% of the infections come from clubs,bars,restaurants and private partys.

 

 

 

I continue to ask the question that isn’t answered (other than ‘to slow the hospital surge’, which I get)...If it worked so well the first time, why the need to do it again/If it didn’t work the first time, why the need to do it again??

Edited November 27, 2020 by bucfan2

[electro]

21 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

I continue to ask the question that isn’t answered (other than ‘to slow the hospital surge’, which I get)...If it worked so well the first time, why the need to do it again/If it didn’t work the first time, why the need to do it again??

I don't know about the rest of the world but in Canada it did work the first time. We brought our cases down from a 7 day average of about 1600 in April - May to a 7 day average of well under 500 from mid June - Sep. The reason we have to do it again is because people got complacent because our numbers were low, at the same time we started moving indoors because of weather. Canadian Thanksgiving didn't help either.

So now certain areas are returning to more restrictions to bring the numbers back down and hopefully keep them there until the vaccine is in wide spread distribution.

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, electro said:

I don't know about the rest of the world but in Canada it did work the first time. We brought our cases down from a 7 day average of about 1600 in April - May to a 7 day average of well under 500 from mid June - Sep. The reason we have to do it again is because people got complacent because our numbers were low, at the same time we started moving indoors because of weather. Canadian Thanksgiving didn't help either.

So now certain areas are returning to more restrictions to bring the numbers back down and hopefully keep them there until the vaccine is in wide spread distribution.

That pretty much sums up the UK position also.

[CruiseMH]

3 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

I continue to ask the question that isn’t answered (other than ‘to slow the hospital surge’, which I get)...If it worked so well the first time, why the need to do it again/If it didn’t work the first time, why the need to do it again??

There are a lot of reasons why the results of the lockdowns in different countries are so different. It depends on the cultural things, the living situation(e.g. whole family in one house in italy,less people per house in germany), the behavior of the people,etc.

 

And the reason why it has to be done again? Please just google what experts say about the second wave of each virus pandemics. It was clear from thebeginning that it would comne. Therefore the lockdown measures in whole europe were not strict enough and there were still to many infections to prevent a second wave from coming.

But if you have a look on the figures in europe(with lockdown) and e.g. USA(without lockdown) you can see that such measures are definitely effective.

 

If we would have a complete shutdown in whole Europe for 6-7 weeks in spring we wouldn`t have the problem right now.

 

[podgeandrodge]

1 hour ago, CruiseMH said:

There are a lot of reasons why the results of the lockdowns in different countries are so different. It depends on the cultural things, the living situation(e.g. whole family in one house in italy,less people per house in germany), the behavior of the people,etc.

 

And the reason why it has to be done again? Please just google what experts say about the second wave of each virus pandemics. It was clear from thebeginning that it would comne. Therefore the lockdown measures in whole europe were not strict enough and there were still to many infections to prevent a second wave from coming.

But if you have a look on the figures in europe(with lockdown) and e.g. USA(without lockdown) you can see that such measures are definitely effective.

 

If we would have a complete shutdown in whole Europe for 6-7 weeks in spring we wouldn`t have the problem right now.

 

Yes, if you lockdown forever you won't have any cases.  But there is a balance between preventing the virus and not permanently destroying businesses and tanking the economy.  

 

[CruiseMH]

17 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

Yes, if you lockdown forever you won't have any cases.  But there is a balance between preventing the virus and not permanently destroying businesses and tanking the economy.  

 

Yes,and that is exactly what everybody is trying. Some prefer the business and don`t care about health and some others do care a lot about health and not so much about business and others do care about business and health.

So far there is no proof that any strategy is the best or the worst. Thats what makes it so difficult for every politician to make the right decission.

[Formula280SS]

On 11/27/2020 at 6:55 PM, podgeandrodge said:

Yes, if you lockdown forever you won't have any cases.  But there is a balance between preventing the virus and not permanently destroying businesses and tanking the economy.  

 

 

Yep, there is a balance, however, it required those in governance to be well balanced also; they are not.  By their nature, "let no crisis go to waste."

 

IMO, the science and Covid 19 results on lockdowns is not evident at all, especially if one looks beyond the main stream media lockdown favored dogma; whether it is country-to-country or, in the US, state-to-state.  The media will 'headline brow beat daily non-lockdown governance states and laud (or hide the date***) of the "most severe, restrictive lock down states."  It's intentional, selective and color coded.

 

For example ~

 

Florida, considered an open state, gets the WRATH of the MSM headlines (for failure to comply with the dogma) over and over and over.

 

“Florida shatters US record for new single-day Covid-19 cases”

 

“Florida’s governor just can’t seem to get it right on coronavirus”

 

“Florida Shatters Record For New Coronavirus Cases, Orders Bars To Close”

 

“Florida shatters records with over 10,000 new COVID-19 cases in single day”

 

“Disney World reopens even as coronavirus cases soar in Florida and across U.S.”

 

“In Florida, COVID-19 Death Toll Keeps Rising”

 

“Florida invited the nation to its reopening — then it became a new coronavirus epicenter”

 

Illinois, considered a lock-down state of draconian measure, get a FREE PASS from the MSM headlines (because it is complying with the dogma) over and over and over.

 

As Florida gets peppered for breaching the 10,000 "cases" in a single day, Illinois gets the honey treatment (protective cloaking of the failure of the lock-down measures approach) which at the time had 15,415 cases in just day with a population 40% smaller than Florida.

 

So, like masks ( 🙄 ) there simply isn't the evidence of success for the lock-downs either.

 

Let's wrap up the Florida (which you likely have "heard of" "seen reports" and totally trashed by the MSM) versus Illinois (which you likely haven't heard a representative, comparative or equivalent news about).

 

 

 

 

[bucfan2]

On 11/27/2020 at 5:29 PM, CruiseMH said:

There are a lot of reasons why the results of the lockdowns in different countries are so different. It depends on the cultural things, the living situation(e.g. whole family in one house in italy,less people per house in germany), the behavior of the people,etc.

 

And the reason why it has to be done again? Please just google what experts say about the second wave of each virus pandemics. It was clear from thebeginning that it would comne. Therefore the lockdown measures in whole europe were not strict enough and there were still to many infections to prevent a second wave from coming.

But if you have a look on the figures in europe(with lockdown) and e.g. USA(without lockdown) you can see that such measures are definitely effective.

 

If we would have a complete shutdown in whole Europe for 6-7 weeks in spring we wouldn`t have the problem right now.

 

 

And the known and unknown side-effects of lockdown...suicides in Japan more in last month than deaths due to a virus.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/more-people-died-of-suicide-in-japan-in-one-month-than-the-entire-coronavirus-pandemic

[d9704011]

5 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

 

And the known and unknown side-effects of lockdown...suicides in Japan more in last month than deaths due to a virus.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/more-people-died-of-suicide-in-japan-in-one-month-than-the-entire-coronavirus-pandemic

Here is an excerpt from the news story...

 

Experts say the pandemic has exacerbated mental health issues due to prolonged lockdowns, isolation from family members, unemployment and other financial concerns, and a lack of school structure. 

 

So, there are all kinds of explanations for the mental health issues related to the rise in suicides in Japan; identifying lockdowns as the only or prime explanation is inaccurate and very misleading.

[GettotheSun]

On 11/27/2020 at 2:53 PM, electro said:

I don't know about the rest of the world but in Canada it did work the first time. We brought our cases down from a 7 day average of about 1600 in April - May to a 7 day average of well under 500 from mid June - Sep. The reason we have to do it again is because people got complacent because our numbers were low, at the same time we started moving indoors because of weather. Canadian Thanksgiving didn't help either.

So now certain areas are returning to more restrictions to bring the numbers back down and hopefully keep them there until the vaccine is in wide spread distribution.

 

I agree with what you're saying here - but it still stuns me how much we have skyrocketed in infections.  There are certain areas that are much worse. Peel region Ontario is an absolute joke - I think their infections are due to absolute disregard for social distancing and other preventative measures.  A disproportionate number of people in Peel just don't care...maybe we could ship them to Florida.

[GettotheSun]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, MrsKC08 said:

First, anyone would be crazy to take this vaccine immediately after being released.

Trump took a drug, with unproven benefits but definite concerns, as a preventative measure before being infected.   And he then took a non-recommended / untested cocktail to recover from COVID.  So I guess he was crazy, both times,  based on your definition.

 

 

On 11/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, MrsKC08 said:

 

The only time I have ever had the flu, I had gotten the vaccine. Since not taking the vaccine I have not gotten the flu...knock on wood.

This is not a logical argument.  You personally took the flu vaccine once, and got the flu.  Ok.  You in that one situation.  Anecdotes are not science, skippy. (had to borrow that form another post)

 

 

On 11/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, MrsKC08 said:

 

It is a virus, so yes...it can spread. However, there are many cases where someone in a home tested positive and others living in that same home never got it. Oh...let's not forget the countless

positive tests that come back as negative with a second test.

Nothing is perfect, reference: your comments.

 

 

On 11/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, MrsKC08 said:

I will not live in fear, nor will I let someone dictate what I was feel about this virus. 

 

Who is asking you to do this?  If you want to ignore reality, I'm not stopping you - who is?  If you want to live your life as you choose fit during the pandemic, fill your boots.  Not sure who is saying otherwise?

 

---

 

And this is just a general statement (not in response to the poster), but no one has the right to impose their 'right' to not wear a mask at a business where the staff are trying to protect their staff and other customers.  These 'Karens / Darrens' can quote whatever disabilities act they want to (which was never contemplated during a pandemic).  But it is very selfish behaviour.  Just put a mask on.  Apparently there were even people on the SeaDream who refused or at least argued about wearing masks.  

 

My rights overrule all of the staff and passengers rights! 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

8 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Here is an excerpt from the news story...

 

Experts say the pandemic has exacerbated mental health issues due to prolonged lockdowns, isolation from family members, unemployment and other financial concerns, and a lack of school structure. 

 

So, there are all kinds of explanations for the mental health issues related to the rise in suicides in Japan; identifying lockdowns as the only or prime explanation is inaccurate and very misleading.

 

Lockdowns create isolation, unemployment, and lack of school structure. 

[bobsfamily]

2 hours ago, GettotheSun said:

And this is just a general statement (not in response to the poster), but no one has the right to impose their 'right' to not wear a mask at a business where the staff are trying to protect their staff and other customers.  These 'Karens / Darrens' can quote whatever disabilities act they want to (which was never contemplated during a pandemic).  But it is very selfish behaviour.  Just put a mask on.  Apparently there were even people on the SeaDream who refused or at least argued about wearing masks.  

 

 

I had a long response but realized it was useless, either you believe a mask does something to stop a virus or you don't... 

[GettotheSun]

8 minutes ago, bobsfamily said:

I had a long response but realized it was useless, either you believe a mask does something to stop a virus or you don't... 

 

Agreed, either you believe in prevention and science, or you don't. 

[d9704011]

53 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Lockdowns create isolation, unemployment, and lack of school structure. 

Yes, probably.  Isolation, unemployment and lack of school structure can be created without lockdowns too.