No proof yet that vaccination prevents transmission to others

[webecruzin2]

On 11/24/2020 at 8:05 AM, crewsweeper said:

That statement, of course, assumes you are infected when you get the vaccine-symptomatic, pre-symptomatic, non-symptomatic.  What these test show is that , if you do not have the virus, there's a 90%+ effective rate that you won't get it.  Think of it as similar to a flu shot.  Getting a flu shot doesn't mean you won't get the flu, but increases the likelihood you won't or will suffer lesser degree of illness. And flu vaccines are only about 50% effective.  So get the vaccine.  

True,  I received a high dose flu vaccine about 6 weeks before our Summit sailing and walked off the ship with Type A flu in November 2019. 
 Nothing in life is a guarantee.  To let the government to continue to control us this way is to give up our freedom forever.  At first it was just to flatten the curve.  Now we're supposed to accept that this is going to be our new way of life?   
These lock downs, masks, social distancing, small business closures, riots, nursing home deaths which the Governor received an Emmy for 😵, even telling us how to have holiday celebrations in our own homes, and "compliance officers" roaming the cities arresting non-mask wearers but letting the thugs run wild..
Now the vaccines that operation warp speed has help produce in record time is still not enough for big brother to let us live freely....... 
This is how it starts.  All you have to do is look at history (before they wipe that out too) of Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, China
Think about it.  
Go ahead and flame away.  I'll get the vaccine and live responsibly as we all should but I'll also resist the government having control of my every move.
If I can't cruise  I'll be damned if I stay cooped up in my house because some bureaucrat says so.
We still have that pesky little thing called a Constitution.  For now anyway.

[A&L_Ont]

I’m off to melt some butter.

[Dinglebert]

On 11/24/2020 at 6:35 PM, BND said:

Problem is, the way to build immunity is to be exposed to viruses.  By hiding behind a mask forever, all you're doing is weakening your immune system which in turn can make you sicker when you do catch something and make you more likely to catch everything you do come into contact with.  

Your are correct.  The adversion to any sort of bugs is just making life more difficult in the long terms.  Kids need to catch things, get dirty, take risks.  It builds up immunity for later years.

[orville99]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

And how will they know that it is not forged? I think with European GDPR legislation over data protection they will have a hard time confirming the authenticity of  a piece of paper at least on a vaccination that has taken place outside of the U.S?

You're right. We will all probably be better off just sitting in a corner, rocking back and forth slowly while drooling and mumbling to ourselves until this is over.

[mworkman]

Has anyone googled what the side effects of the Covid vaccine, what people are currently experiencing that have taken it already? Doesn't look like a pleasant experience.  😮

Edited November 26, 2020 by mworkman

[Dinglebert]

17 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Has anyone googled what the side effects of the Covid vaccine, what people are currently experiencing that have taken it already? Doesn't look like a pleasant experience.  😮

Have you googled the side effects of asprin or ibrufen or paracetamol.  Whatever people are experiencing is somewhat better than death as a direct consequence of covid infection

[orville99]

29 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Has anyone googled what the side effects of the Covid vaccine, what people are currently experiencing that have taken it already? Doesn't look like a pleasant experience.  😮

Not all that different from what I experience every time I get a flu shot.

[A&L_Ont]

25 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Has anyone googled what the side effects of the Covid vaccine, what people are currently experiencing that have taken it already? Doesn't look like a pleasant experience.  😮

 

 

Read three different articles and they were similar symptoms.  It doesn't sound much different than my experience with the Flu shot.  From what I have a read about the shingles vaccine, it sounds to be much more painful than the Covid one. 

 

BBC

"Some people do suffer mild symptoms, such as muscle aches or a bit of a temperature, after being vaccinated.  This is not the disease itself, but the body's response to the vaccine.  Allergic reactions to vaccines are rare. For any approved vaccine, the ingredients will be listed.  Be aware that anti-vaccine stories are spread online through social media. These may not be based on scientific evidence".

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55056016

 

CBC - Canada

"Moderna said most side effects in its trial were mild or moderate, but less than 10 per cent of volunteers had more severe side effects. They included pain at the injection site after the first injection and sometimes fatigue, muscle aches, joint pain, headache and pain or redness at the injection site after the second injection". 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-pfizer-faq-1.5795486

 

ASTV - Spain

"Both Pfizer and Moderna have acknowledged that vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild covid-19 or common flu, such as muscle pain, chills and headache. Furthermore, patients in trials for both vaccines disclosed to CNBC that they experienced high fever, body aches, headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots.

While the symptoms were uncomfortable and at times intense, the participants said they often went away after a day or less, and that it was certainly better than contracting covid-19".

https://en.as.com/en/2020/11/25/latest_news/1606326164_750579.html

[MommaBear55]

45 minutes ago, mworkman said:

Has anyone googled what the side effects of the Covid vaccine, what people are currently experiencing that have taken it already? Doesn't look like a pleasant experience.  😮

Better than having Covid, though. I'll get it on a Friday after I ski, wait it out over the weekend and hopefully ski again on the Monday. 

[BND]

8 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

 

Read three different articles and they were similar symptoms.  It doesn't sound much different than my experience with the Flu shot.  From what I have a read about the shingles vaccine, it sounds to be much more painful than the Covid one. 

 

BBC

"Some people do suffer mild symptoms, such as muscle aches or a bit of a temperature, after being vaccinated.  This is not the disease itself, but the body's response to the vaccine.  Allergic reactions to vaccines are rare. For any approved vaccine, the ingredients will be listed.  Be aware that anti-vaccine stories are spread online through social media. These may not be based on scientific evidence".

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55056016

 

CBC - Canada

"Moderna said most side effects in its trial were mild or moderate, but less than 10 per cent of volunteers had more severe side effects. They included pain at the injection site after the first injection and sometimes fatigue, muscle aches, joint pain, headache and pain or redness at the injection site after the second injection". 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-pfizer-faq-1.5795486

 

ASTV - Spain

"Both Pfizer and Moderna have acknowledged that vaccines could induce side effects that are similar to symptoms associated with mild covid-19 or common flu, such as muscle pain, chills and headache. Furthermore, patients in trials for both vaccines disclosed to CNBC that they experienced high fever, body aches, headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots.

While the symptoms were uncomfortable and at times intense, the participants said they often went away after a day or less, and that it was certainly better than contracting covid-19".

https://en.as.com/en/2020/11/25/latest_news/1606326164_750579.html

My worst reaction to a vaccine was Shringrix and it was very similar to these listed. I missed 1/2 day of work after the first shot and a full day after the second.  I could have worked, but I had the sick leave so I used it.  The most important part is that no one had severe side effects of any kind, just some discomfort.   The reaction I had to Shringrix is pretty common and not everyone has reactions.  My DH had none.  My mom (when she was 82) only reacted to the second shot.  

[BND]

30 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

Have you googled the side effects of asprin or ibrufen or paracetamol.  Whatever people are experiencing is somewhat better than death as a direct consequence of covid infection

This.  Heck, just watch commercials for pharmaceuticals.  They all list "death" as a possible side effect.  They pretty much have to list every side effect anyone has ever had while taking the medication, even if they can't prove a link.  It's about liability.  But, my by far favorite statement is "don't take if allergic to it"  Seriously? 

[Ocean Boy]

17 hours ago, Pratique said:

Vaccines? Modern medicine? Average life expectancy was under 40 until 1900. This is a novel virus and the science will catch up with it. Until then...

You mean all the same reasons why we won't be eearing masks forever now.

[mek]

1 hour ago, Dinglebert said:

Your are correct.  The adversion to any sort of bugs is just making life more difficult in the long terms.  Kids need to catch things, get dirty, take risks.  It builds up immunity for later years.

Yes it does, but you can't convince some people and after this is over there is going to be a whole new group of folks who will think they need to over sanitize everything.

[Iamcruzin]

19 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

If you, or your parents, were not given a copy then you call your physician and ask for a copy. This is not rocket science. My office supplies immunization records to people frequently..... no chips or tattoos required.

Do these childhood immunity records follow you?  I have been hospitalized for surgical procedures over the years and changed PCPs.  I don’t recall anyone asking me for any records of if I even had the vaccinations. The Pediatrician signed all of the school records. I just assumed they traced any immunity through blood work when I changed doctors or was hospitalized. I know when my wife became pregnant with my son she didn’t have the immunity for Rubella even though she was vaccinated. She was vaccinated in the hospital after she gave birth. At the same time she told the GYNOB that she never had the chicken pox and the Dr told her she had the immunity. Her siblings all had the CP.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[BND]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

And how will they know that it is not forged? I think with European GDPR legislation over data protection they will have a hard time confirming the authenticity of  a piece of paper at least on a vaccination that has taken place outside of the U.S?

How did they know that hard copy shot records weren't forged  or aren't still forged for countries that require them?  You want to go down some rabbit hole.  

[BND]

10 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

Do these childhood immunity records follow you. I have been hospitalized for surgical procedures over the years and changed PCPs.  I don’t recall anyone asking me for any records of if I even had the vaccinations. The Pediatrician signed all of the school records. I just assumed they traced any immunity through blood work when I changed doctors or was hospitalized. I know when my wife became pregnant with my son she didn’t have the immunity for Rubella even though she was vaccinated. She was vaccinated in the hospital after she gave birth. At the same time she told the GYNOB that she never had the chicken pox and the Dr told her she had the immunity. Her siblings all had the CP.

They do bloodwork on pregnant women all the time and look for immunity.  They don't know if it's from the vaccine or the illness itself, just whether you are immune or not.  Usually Dr's just ask if you've had certain vaccines, like flu or tetanus.  They rely on bloodwork for anything that could be a risk factor for certain conditions, such as pregnancy.  The records belong to you and the Dr or clinic or pharmacy that administered them.  They do not follow you unless you provide them or allow previous Dr's to share them.

[Iamcruzin]

Delete

Edited November 26, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[Iamcruzin]

10 minutes ago, BND said:

How did they know that hard copy shot records weren't forged  or aren't still forged for countries that require them?  You want to go down some rabbit hole.  

That’s my concern as well. How easy is it to get a forged driver’s license? Years ago when people wrote checks to make purchases they would use their DL as ID. I couldn’t tell a real one from a fake one especially if it was from out of state.

[bobmacliberty]

19 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Do you reside in Russia now?

 

Russia Today is one of several English speaking world news broadcasts, along with CNN International, BBC Worlds News, Al Jazeera English, and a few others.  Most hotels in Europe or Asia that cater to international travelers will carry at least a couple of these news channels.  When I travel, I usually default to BBC but have watched RT and Al Jazeera just to see how they differ.  I expected (based on my American upbringing) that they would be biased in some way but found that there is less of a political slant in the world news broadcasts, and they all tend to cover much of the same stuff.  Stuff that we don't typically get exposed to with US news channels.

[BND]

Just now, Iamcruzin said:

That’s my concern as well. How easy is it to get a forged driver’s license? Years ago when people wrote checks to make purchases they would use their DL as ID. I couldn’t tell a real one from a fake one especially if it was from out of state.

My point was that that particular poster is so hung up on "proof".  I was making the point that they didn't know 30 years ago if someone forged a shot record for travel.   Anyone who does is risking their own life.  Anyone who goes in for physicals gets bloodwork and the Dr determines what is looked for, not the patient.   People can lie all they want, but it really will end up hurting them.  Say you lie, get on a cruise that requires one, catch Covid and get really sick and have to be treated.  They take your history, you continue to lie.  Someone files insurance.  Guess what?  Your insurance company knows what vaccines you've received under them.  As I've said previously, if you lie and get caught, you will be banned for life from cruising.  They don't tolerate anything that affects their bottom line and you spreading disease  by lying definitely would.  The bigger issue isn't worrying about people lying, but worrying about people who won't get the shot and continue to impact others.

[Biker19]

10 minutes ago, bobmacliberty said:

I expected (based on my American upbringing) that they would be biased in some way but found that there is less of a political slant in the world news broadcasts,

They have done their job then - making you believe they are not biased.

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, bobmacliberty said:

 

Russia Today is one of several English speaking world news broadcasts, along with CNN International, BBC Worlds News, Al Jazeera English, and a few others.  Most hotels in Europe or Asia that cater to international travelers will carry at least a couple of these news channels.  When I travel, I usually default to BBC but have watched RT and Al Jazeera just to see how they differ.  I expected (based on my American upbringing) that they would be biased in some way but found that there is less of a political slant in the world news broadcasts, and they all tend to cover much of the same stuff.  Stuff that we don't typically get exposed to with US news channels.

It is very anti American and they have an American host for some shows who lives in Moscow. A very brave woman to be fair.

[Tree_skier]

The number of forged documents would be statically insignificant. The fear of people cruising on forged immunization records is just ridiculous fear mongering.  Even if a few would be willing to take the risk of trying to board with fake immunization records, the consequence of a few people not immunized on a ship full of immunized people borders zero. Especially as therapeutics for treating the virus continue to improve and the CFR continues to drop. This is just more fear porn.  Immunization will happen.  The vast majority of the general population will get the immunized.  Life will return to normal.  We'll sit hip to hip, unmasked, in the Schooner bar.  The pool deck will have lounge chairs two inches apart. We'll read lots of posts about overcrowded elevators and the chaos of the Windjammer on embarkation day. Life will return to normal.  Of course there will be those so traumatized with PTSD suffered by a year of lockdowns, business closures and forced quarantines that they'll bath in hand sanitizer on daily basis and never get on a cruise ship again.  To those I say, au revior.  I'll have a drink at the sky bar in your memory.  

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, BND said:

How did they know that hard copy shot records weren't forged  or aren't still forged for countries that require them?  You want to go down some rabbit hole.  

I don't know I have never been asked a single question about vaccination ever in my life that I can recall. I am more than happy to buy a second hand iphone and get this German App or show the medical records I just hope I am not carrying a big file folder like in school.

[Tippyton]

On 11/24/2020 at 8:49 AM, mafig said:

I read this in two different places (one from someone who was in a test group) and also from a "expert" on TV.  

More scare and control tactics.  Think through this...they say this about every other viral vaccine, right?  No, no they don't.  All conjecture and BS to get you to obey.