Will P&O now delay announcements for future cruise pauses?

[wowzz]

25 minutes ago, zap99 said:

As you know, in industry the term used is " minimise the risk ". If folk wish to eliminate risk completely, nothing will return to anything like normal, ever again, no trips out of the house at all, ever.

Quite correct,  and, as always, the difficult bit is deciding  what level of risk is acceptable.

Much as I dislike BoJo, I do understand that he is in a difficult position, but he cannot leave every decision to the scientists. They are so risk averse that they would have us shut down for ever. Sooner, rather than later, he has to actually make a few hard decisions, like his hero, Churchill,  did. 

To constantly prevaricate is not the leadership we need right now.

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Quite correct,  and, as always, the difficult bit is deciding  what level of risk is acceptable.

Much as I dislike BoJo, I do understand that he is in a difficult position, but he cannot leave every decision to the scientists. They are so risk averse that they would have us shut down for ever. Sooner, rather than later, he has to actually make a few hard decisions, like his hero, Churchill,  did. 

To constantly prevaricate is not the leadership we need right now.

Levels of acceptable risk is obviously different for different folk. When we are all jabbed and can analyse the number for ourselves in a few weeks .We can decide if we feel ok getting a take away to eat in the car, or on a park bench, or on the beach. If a hotel is open we can look at the procedures in place and decide for ourselves. If others aren't happy to do so, don't take any risk.

[wowzz]

Just now, zap99 said:

Levels of acceptable risk is obviously different for different folk. When we are all jabbed and can analyse the number for ourselves in a few weeks .We can decide if we feel ok getting a take away to eat in the car, or on a park bench, or on the beach. If a hotel is open we can look at the procedures in place and decide for ourselves. If others aren't happy to do so, don't take any risk.

That seems imminently sensible. After all, no one will be forcing you to go for a meal, go on holiday, etc.

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Quite correct,  and, as always, the difficult bit is deciding  what level of risk is acceptable.

Much as I dislike BoJo, I do understand that he is in a difficult position, but he cannot leave every decision to the scientists. They are so risk averse that they would have us shut down for ever. Sooner, rather than later, he has to actually make a few hard decisions, like his hero, Churchill,  did. 

To constantly prevaricate is not the leadership we need right now.

I share your view, but would add that I agree with what he is saying about any changes that we make from now on being irreversible. We can’t go through all this again, so I think it’s very sensible to open things up bit by bit. The only flaw in this approach is that if one aspect is suddenly deemed to have caused a problem, how do you overcome that without reversing the decision? 🤔 I have also always been of the belief that just because you can do something, doesn’t mean that you have to, which allows everyone to manage their own levels of acceptable risk. 

[ann141]

4 hours ago, Beckett said:

To all my dear new friends. Thank you soooooo much for your truly uplifting messages of support. I am really touched that you have taken the time to find such inspiring words (and tokens). I am actually at work now and have shown your support to some of my colleagues. We've all had a little cry but feel much better for it. Thank you again. With love and virtual hugs to all from Jane. Xxxxx

Only just looked at CC today and I can only agree with all the appreciative comments posted already about all your hard work.I also appreciate helping us keep up to date with 'facts' on this forum rather than speculation.THANK YOU 🙂 

[Eddie99]

It is a dilemma

The case rates announced so far today don’t look so good.  Maybe a statistical blip,  may be significant, who knows? 
Just another reason not to rush.  Don’t stay locked down forever, obviously.  Don’t aim for 0 cases.  Just don’t lose the gains we’ve made these last tough weeks/months

 

I’ll cut the Government a lot of slack to take time and get it right

[joeecco]

My personal view is if you’re going to open non essential shops one month and then pubs the next month, you may as well open them the same time. I do not see the point in doing it bit by bit now that the vulnerable have more protection.

[zap99]

35 minutes ago, joeecco said:

My personal view is if you’re going to open non essential shops one month and then pubs the next month, you may as well open them the same time. I do not see the point in doing it bit by bit now that the vulnerable have more protection.

That's a dilemma. Hairdressers aren't essential I thought. Looking in the mirror this morning, a little more essential. In another couple of months, maybe ponytails for wrinkly men may become essential. 🤣

[Dermotsgirl]

51 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

It is a dilemma

The case rates announced so far today don’t look so good.  Maybe a statistical blip,  may be significant, who knows? 
Just another reason not to rush.  Don’t stay locked down forever, obviously.  Don’t aim for 0 cases.  Just don’t lose the gains we’ve made these last tough weeks/months

 

I’ll cut the Government a lot of slack to take time and get it right

Yes I agree, lets do it gradually, and see what effect each new opening has on the virus infections along side the vaccine rollout.

 

Johnson's attitude seems to have shifted, he is much less gungho and not making promises left, right and centre, so I think he has learned from what has happened, and I am hopeful that he will announce a cautious 'roadmap' on Monday.

 

When hospitality reopened last year on 4th July, there were 624 new infections reported on that day. Yesterday's figure was 10625, so we're some way off from opening up pubs and cafes.

 

I remember last summer, when there were comment on the forum about the (thankfully ) low death figures, and there was a view from some posters that all the 'vulnerable had died, and we wouldn't see high death figures again..... and look what happened.  We can't risk that happening again - we have got to do it right, using all the methods at our disposal to unlock slowly and safely. Also, if things look like they are getting out of hand, they shouldn't be afraid to take action. A short, early lockdown must be better than what we've endured since November. 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, Dermotsgirl said:

When hospitality reopened last year on 4th July, there were 624 new infections reported on that day. Yesterday's figure was 10625, so we're some way off from opening up pubs and cafes.

But you need you need to add some context to that figure. Mass testing was simply not available then to the extent that it is today. Plus the level of infections drop during the summer months.

So really, you are comparing apples and pears.

[Dermotsgirl]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But you need you need to add some context to that figure. Mass testing was simply not available then to the extent that it is today. Plus the level of infections drop during the summer months.

So really, you are comparing apples and pears.

OK, let's use other metrics.

 

Deaths 4th July 2020 -  33. 

Deaths 9th Feb 2021 - 522

 

People hospitalised 4th July 2020 - 202

People hospitalised 9th February 2021 - 1747.

 

We are still a long was from where we were on 4th July

 

We also know that the virus is happy to spread in spring - and we are approaching spring.

 

Any moves towards opening up society need to be cautious, IMO

 

 

[wowzz]

3 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

OK, let's use other metrics.

 

Deaths 4th July 2020 -  33. 

Deaths 9th Feb 2021 - 522

 

People hospitalised 4th July 2020 - 202

People hospitalised 9th February 2021 - 1747.

 

We are still a long was from where we were on 4th July

 

We also know that the virus is happy to spread in spring - and we are approaching spring.

 

Any moves towards opening up society need to be cautious, IMO

 

 

That's a "better" set of statistics to use.

[joeecco]

Open everything up, and get on with life.

 

if you want to continue staying home, then stay home. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by joeecco

[Dermotsgirl]

3 minutes ago, joeecco said:

Open everything up, and get on with life.

 

if you want to continue staying home, then stay home. 

I've never been sure  - does 'getting on with life' also mean that social distancing and mask wearing is no longer needed?

 

Incidentally, nobody wants to stay at home, but many people realise that, to avoid a repeat of the last hellish three months, we have to be very careful indeed about how society is reopened. 

[tring]

I see BBC text is saying Boris has said it is right to use a "data, not dates" approach to leaving lockdown. 

 

I am now thinking we may not get any mention of dates next Monday, but we will see.

[nicki-k]

I agree with Dermotsgirl, I would prefer a cautious approach to try and avoid any major curve balls. If we open everything up before driving the infections down there is a much higher chance of mutations which could evade the vaccines currently available......we would be back to square one having wasted the enormous human effort and immense sums of money spent to try and protect us all. We are the lucky ones who have made it this far so I am happy to be patient for a bit longer. 

[jeanlyon]

I agree too.  The downside is that we have very few cases down here in Devon and I for one, would love to get back to work.  There are only 2 of us in the office and working from home is a total nightmare, so I would prefer to go back to tiers, but don't think he will do that.

[Angel57]

1 minute ago, jeanlyon said:

I agree too.  The downside is that we have very few cases down here in Devon and I for one, would love to get back to work.  There are only 2 of us in the office and working from home is a total nightmare, so I would prefer to go back to tiers, but don't think he will do that.

I think the problem with different tiers is that people will inevitably travel to a lower tier where shops, pubs and restaurants are open. It happened here before Christmas and I know it happened in Devon. Although with high vaccination take up this should become less of an issue as the months tick by.

Slowly, slowly I think is the answer and then hopefully we won’t go backwards. Personally I would like to see the UK economy successfully opened up before foreign travel for holidays is allowed but I know many will disagree.

 

[jeanlyon]

I agree with you.

[Windsurfboy]

The case rate across the country looks much more even than in the Autumn with exception of a few rural spots Cornwall,  Devon, which are lower.  I think therefore a common approach is better. What seems obvious is lockdown is basically teir 4,  so every 3 weeks we drop a tier and see what happens. 

 

If we are allowed to leave home for more reasons then unless they change the law we should be able to go on holiday abroad if they allow overnight stays in UK. Holidays are not illegal it is leaving home without a reasonable excuse that is illegal and a holiday currently is not a reasonable excuse. The issue will be insurance if FCO advice doesn't change,  you can get insurance to travel against FCO advice, but premiums are double normal. I wouldn't mind quarantine at home for 10 days, not much different to now and paying for the 2 tests. Would not go away if had to spend 10 days in airport hotel.

[Josy1953]

19 minutes ago, Angel57 said:

I think the problem with different tiers is that people will inevitably travel to a lower tier where shops, pubs and restaurants are open. It happened here before Christmas and I know it happened in Devon. Although with high vaccination take up this should become less of an issue as the months tick by.

Slowly, slowly I think is the answer and then hopefully we won’t go backwards. Personally I would like to see the UK economy successfully opened up before foreign travel for holidays is allowed but I know many will disagree.

 

I completely agree, BJ has to take a  more cautious approach to opening up this time because people will bend the rules to go shopping.  I also think that foreign travel needs to be restricted because until virus levels fall throughout the world travel will encourage the spread of the virus.

[Windsurfboy]

4 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

  I also think that foreign travel needs to be restricted because until virus levels fall throughout the world travel will encourage the spread of the virus.

 

If you are tested before you travel , tested again a few days after you get there. If you have to test negative to fly back to UK and spend 10 days and 2 tests in quarantine at home. Then it will not spread virus. 

 

Of course if you say people  are not to be trusted not to break quarantine then that is another issue. We need to solve using technology,  not a minute chance of a Bobby calling round. The solution talked about is  an app that randomly asks you to send a selfie many times a day, facial recognition software checks it's you and looks at GPS data of where you are. 

[Snow Hill]

1 hour ago, zap99 said:

That's a dilemma. Hairdressers aren't essential I thought. Looking in the mirror this morning, a little more essential. In another couple of months, maybe ponytails for wrinkly men may become essential. 🤣

My wife has been cutting mine, been doing a good job, won’t let me do hers though. 🤔

[Snow Hill]

45 minutes ago, Angel57 said:

I think the problem with different tiers is that people will inevitably travel to a lower tier where shops, pubs and restaurants are open. It happened here before Christmas and I know it happened in Devon. Although with high vaccination take up this should become less of an issue as the months tick by.

Slowly, slowly I think is the answer and then hopefully we won’t go backwards. Personally I would like to see the UK economy successfully opened up before foreign travel for holidays is allowed but I know many will disagree.

 

We had that before Christmas to, we were less than 15 miles from Tier4, so they just came shopping here, we then had a huge rise in cases, post Christmas & sadly deaths resulted.

 

Whatever the approach is it needs to be cautious, no more “saving Christmas (or Easter)” headlines, which appears to be approach of FM in Scotland, the question is will Johnson resist the siren calls from some rebellious back benchers? 
 

As for schools going back we may need to have blended learning with a rota of when classes/ years are in for face to face teaching and times when they schooling at home. 
 

As my daughter says we can keep children safe in school, but what we can’t control is how they behave at home and how their parents adhere to rules. The cases they have had in school when investigated have come from households where mixing across multiple households has occurred. 

 

 

[DamianG]

28 minutes ago, Snow Hill said:

As my daughter says we can keep children safe in school, but what we can’t control is how they behave at home and how their parents adhere to rules. The cases they have had in school when investigated have come from households where mixing across multiple households has occurred. 

 

 

 

Exactly this, our son was invited to a sleepover at his friend's during lockdown. We declined of course, then later heard that another friend was invited and actually did stay over.