Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I wasn't referencing facts, just the inferences which are drawn from and interpreted from facts.  Those inferences are debatable.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Pi a mathematical fact not a science fact?  I believe the use of PI in science is to designate who is a Principal Investigator.

 

Well, to be fair, Mathematics is the Queen of Sciences.  

Math enables Physics

Physics enables Chemistry
Chemistry enables Biology

 

[ldubs]

8 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Based on what our government has been saying most likely no 😕. Unless they are competing in a sporting event or are a judge in a reality show 🙄😜

 

OK, I'm going off track here for a minute.  I watched "Married at First Site Australia".   There are some real characters on that show!   We had to turn the close captioning on to understand everything being said and even then there were some words new to us.   But now I know what "pashing" means.  Lol.     

 

Now, I guess we should return to the normal programming.  

[ilikeanswers]

Just now, ldubs said:

OK, I'm going off track here for a minute.  I watched "Married at First Site Australia".   There are some real characters on that show!   We had to turn the close captioning on to understand everything being said and even then there were some words new to us.   But now I know what "pashing" means.  Lol.     

 

Now, I guess we should return to the normal programming.  

 

Wow I had no idea we were the only ones to use "pashing" 😯. As for the show I am glad it is providing you entertainment but I can't say I'm a fan 😂. Much prefer Love on the Spectrum or Old People’s Home for 4 Year Olds. Maybe I'm just too sentimental😜. 

[ldubs]

16 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Wow I had no idea we were the only ones to use "pashing" 😯. As for the show I am glad it is providing you entertainment but I can't say I'm a fan 😂. Much prefer Love on the Spectrum or Old People’s Home for 4 Year Olds. Maybe I'm just too sentimental😜. 

 

And then there was "macking on" (sounds like "mocking on") that I may be misspelling. Someone was accused of "macking on" with someone else's bride.     

 

Will have to look for those others.    

[tosteve1]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

Worldometers isn't the only model:

 

Where The Latest COVID-19 Models Think We're Headed — And Why They Disagree

Those are modeling deaths...relatively easy as deaths follow cases. Predicting cases is what I am curious about.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, tosteve1 said:

Those are modeling deaths...relatively easy as deaths follow cases. Predicting cases is what I am curious about.

 

Maybe this then? 

 

Case Forecasts

[gmjc2]

Just for the record---Hubby and I have had both Moderna shots--i had a mild reaction immediately from the first---dizzy and nausea  for 20 mins only and no reaction to second shot. Hubby no reactions to either shot.

My 99 yr old mother in UK had both Pfiser shots with no reactions or side effects. I realize we are only 3 out of millions but that is our story!

 

I got a sore arm from my last flu shot which we get every year. 

 

Conclusion---For most of us this vaccination is not much different from the yearly flu shot. If we do not fuss over getting that regularly why should we fuss about the possibility of having to do the same with the Covid vaccine?

 

The shots are infinitely better than getting the illness with it's lasting effects end of story.....

 

[2wheelin]

I had no reaction to either shot. That is a fact. So, there are no side effects. That is misinterpretation of a fact but everyone should know that YOU will not have side effects—based on this fact.  

[2wheelin]

22 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

Which is it 1 in 3 (33%) or 1 in 5 (20%)? Do you have access to the actual numbers or is this anecdotal?

 

I can add anecdotally that out of the 11 individuals that I know that have been fully vaccinated, one (also a health care worker) had a reaction that resulted in missing two days of work.  The rest had, at most, sore arms.  So that is a less than 10% incidence of a severe reaction.

 

If you read my complete comment it said roughly 1 in 3-5 who have been vaccinated have experienced side effects severe enough to keep them from work from a couple of days up to a month. No data on long term effects. It is a range of numbers because I referred to a range of time. Obviously because many are still to be vaccinated, the numbers are ever changing. I referred to medical workers and their families—many thousands of people and those are the observations. Maybe we are different than a group of 100 elderly people. I just reported on this observation. 

I personally had no reaction but an N of one (or 11) is not significant.

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

I had no reaction to either shot. That is a fact. So, there are no side effects. That is misinterpretation of a fact but everyone should know that YOU will not have side effects—based on this fact.  

 

Come on now.  How is it any different from what you shared earlier.   Someone who puts it out there that they have expertise as a medical researcher, would lend credence in my book.  As such, they know to be very careful because people will rely on what they say.    Or ,at least make it very clear they were sharing an experience which should not be confused with a valid finding and should not be relied upon for making a decision.  

 

 

 

 

 

[2wheelin]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Come on now.  How is it any different from what you shared earlier.   Someone who puts it out there that they have expertise as a medical researcher, would lend credence in my book.  As such, they know to be very careful because people will rely on what they say.    Or ,at least make it very clear they were sharing an experience which should not be confused with a valid finding and should not be relied upon for making a decision.  

 

 

 

 

 

Bwaahaa. I love it! Sarcasm topping sarcasm. And still there will be future comments upset with ours.

[ldubs]

Just now, 2wheelin said:

Bwaahaa. I love it! Sarcasm topping sarcasm. And still there will be future comments upset with ours.

 

I was not being sarcastic.  I was expressing concern.   

 

However, I posted before I read your results were based on observations of thousands.  Does your current medical service employer agree with your public release of your scientific findings?  Perhaps the CDC should be made aware.  Now, that was sarcastic   

[capriccio]

8 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

 I just reported on this observation. As did I.

I personally had no reaction but an N of one (or 11) is not significant. Nor is your estimate and that was my point. 

By the way my group of 11 was comprised of:

• 2 nurses (1 NP in geriatrics; 1 ER nurse) in their early and mid 30s
• 2 teachers in their late 30s
• 1 hospital pediatric cardiology sonographer in her early 40s (she is the one who had the more severe reaction)
• 1 MD in a hospital practice in his early 60s
• 6 retirees (2 in upper 60s, one a cancer survivor; 1 in early 70s, a cancer survivor; 2 in early 80s, 1 a cancer survivor).

 

 

We need official statistics on the number and seriousness of reactions to the vaccines.  The information is being collected.  That is what I will consider worthy of consideration (neither your anecdotal numbers nor mine).

 

The 4 page Answering Your Questions About the New COVId-19 Vaccines pamphlet we received with our vaccinations included an entire page on monitoring systems and information sources.

 

New vaccine safety monitoring systems and information sources:

• CDC: V-SAFE
• CDC: national healthcare Safety Network (NHSN)
• FDA:  Other large insurer/payer databases

Existing safety monitoring systems:  General Public

• CDC and FDA:  Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)
• CDC:  Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD)
• CDC:  Clinical immunization Safety Assessment (CISA) Project
• FDA and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid data
• FDA:  Biologics Effectiveness and Safety System (BEST)
• FDA:  Sentinel Initiative

Existing safety monitoring systems:  Members of the military

• Department of Defense (DOD): DOD VAERS data
• DOD:  Vaccine Adverse Event Clinical System (VAECS)
• DOD:  DOD Electronic Health Record and Defense Medically Surveillance System

Veterans

• Department of Veteran Affairs (VA): VA Adverse Drug Event Reporting System (VA ADERS)
• VA Electronic Health Record and Active Surveillance System

Tribal Nations

• Indian Health Service (IHS): IHS VAERS data

[Daniel A]

Is there any possibility that we can terminate this thread drift and get back to the simple question originally posed?  (I admit that I was part of the thread drift so I'm not casting aspersions on anyone else...)

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I was not being sarcastic.  I was expressing concern.   

 

However, I posted before I read your results were based on observations of thousands.  Does your current medical service employer agree with your public release of your scientific findings?  Perhaps the CDC should be made aware.  Now, that was sarcastic   

 

The point is that HE was being sarcastic.  In light of the previous discussion about the nature of facts.  That whoosh you heard over your head was his point, which you missed.

[ontheweb]

If our cruise was soon and we needed to have had both our first and second vaccinations, we would now have a problem. We got a call earlier this afternoon that our appointments for tomorrow are postponed until March 1st. I don't know if it is directly because of the weather (it's always snowing) or indirectly as maybe the bad weather has delayed shipment of the vaccine to them.

[mom says]

Well, ontheweb, you don't have a problem,  given that no one is cruising any time soon. 

[Daniel A]

9 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

If our cruise was soon and we needed to have had both our first and second vaccinations, we would now have a problem. We got a call earlier this afternoon that our appointments for tomorrow are postponed until March 1st. I don't know if it is directly because of the weather (it's always snowing) or indirectly as maybe the bad weather has delayed shipment of the vaccine to them.

Maybe it's because the Governor has decided that the residents of nursing homes also need to be vaccinated now.  The nursing home in my neighborhood (Westchester County) shipped all of its resident patients out to distant counties so he can put more Covid cases into the local nursing home.  All at the Governor's orders.

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, Daniel A said:

Maybe it's because the Governor has decided that the residents of nursing homes also need to be vaccinated now.  The nursing home in my neighborhood (Westchester County) shipped all of its resident patients out to distant counties so he can put more Covid cases into the local nursing home.  All at the Governor's orders.

And maybe soon he will have to face the consequences of what he did.

[Joebucks]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/18/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/#link-IGOY67IBQ5BM3GT73QFHMXCF5A

 

To all those who have already taken their stance that the vaccine is effective, this is an example of how the science is never settled. Exactly why the flu vaccine debate was brought up. Now they are looking at boosters because they already can't stand up to some of the variants. 

 

Not only do we have new vaccines with relatively short testing and data, but now we will be boosting them. Too many variables. Too many moving parts. 

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Too many variables. Too many moving parts. 

And your solution is................?

[capriccio]

24 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

To all those who have already taken their stance that the vaccine is effective, this is an example of how the science is never settled. Exactly why the flu vaccine debate was brought up. Now they are looking at boosters because they already can't stand up to some of the variants. 

.

I am confused.  Given that the variants didn’t exist when the vaccines were being developed, how could the vaccines be expected to ‘stand up to some of the variants?’

[binro01]

Here is an interesting question. We are not sure about kids under the age of 18 being able to get a vaccine. What will be the requirement for them? Families where the parents are vaccinated but their children are not. It's an interesting dilemma.

 

I will personally only cruise when Im vaccinated. I'm not going to force a vaccine on anyone for whatever reason for leisure purposes.

[wowzz]

9 minutes ago, capriccio said:

I am confused.  Given that the variants didn’t exist when the vaccines were being developed, how could the vaccines be expected to ‘stand up to some of the variants?’

Good answer. You can only protect against what you know. 

And there is ample evidence that the current vaccines still provide a certain level of protection against the new variants.  

I'm really not sure what point Joebucks was trying to make. Surely any vaccine is better than none,  as long as we realise that it will not be 100% effective -  which was always the case anyway.

[wowzz]

12 minutes ago, binro01 said:

Here is an interesting question. We are not sure about kids under the age of 18 being able to get a vaccine. What will be the requirement for them? Families where the parents are vaccinated but their children are not. It's an interesting dilemma.

 

I will personally only cruise when Im vaccinated. I'm not going to force a vaccine on anyone for whatever reason for leisure purposes.

If children are not being vaccinated, then cruise lines will not require them to be vaccinated.