NCL Counters CDC new phase with it's own plan. Really bold move.

[GonzoWCS]

12 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Just curious, I realize none of us have a crystal ball, but do you think the 'stalemate' is going to change before the order expires November 1st? 

I have a "Magic 8-Ball"  and it says "Can't Predict Now"

[iamaqt2]

8 hours ago, knitlady037 said:

since you know EVERYTHING about the vaccines and allergies, maybe you just missed this info.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-begins-study-allergic-reactions-moderna-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccines

 

And not one single participant in that trial will be "scratch tested" but will actually receive either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine through INJECTION.  A for effort though.

[logan25]

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24798-norwegian-cruise-line-wants-an-answers-from-the-cdc.html

[DCGuy64]

13 hours ago, logan25 said:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24798-norwegian-cruise-line-wants-an-answers-from-the-cdc.html

Good for FdR! About time the CDC got off its butt and addressed NCL's concerns. Thank you for posting this story! 

[harkinmr]

10 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Good for FdR! About time the CDC got off its butt and addressed NCL's concerns. Thank you for posting this story! 

Here you go:

 

CDC Statement on Cruise Meeting: The CDC issued the following statement to Cruise Week this morning:
Experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and White House staff met with cruise industry leaders and executives to discuss the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) on Monday, April 12, 2021. Cruise industry leaders were able to provide input into the phases of the CSO, expressed frustration with the requirements, discussed the incorporation of vaccination requirements into restarting passenger voyages, and expressed the need to establish a working group with industry and CDC to work forward to resume cruising as soon as possible. Cruising will always pose some risk of COVID-19 transmission, and COVID-19 vaccines will play a critical role in the safe resumption of passenger operations. Cruise travelers represent a global population, and as more people are fully vaccinated worldwide, the phased approach of the CSO also allows CDC to incorporate these advancements into planning for the safe resumption of cruise ship travel. CDC is committed to working with the cruise industry and seaport partners to resume cruising following a phased approach required by the CSO. CDC and DHS senior leadership will begin meetings with cruise industry leaders starting this week. The objective of the meetings are to mutually review the top priority issues of the cruise industry to work out implementation details of the CSO, including the impact of vaccines and other scientific developments since the CSO was issued in October 2020. This goal aligns with the desire for the resumption of passenger operations in the United States by mid-summer, expressed by many major cruise ship operators and travelers."

[Stallion]

The good news is that the United States just passed  the 200 Million vaccinations mark with 202,282,923 vaccinations with about half of its citizens over 18 with at least 1 vaccinations. At a pace of over 3 Million a day we are moving in the right direction

 

CDC COVID Data Tracker

Edited April 16, 2021 by Stallion

[OZ.]

Not sure if this will work, but I sure hope so. The CDC really needs to start changing it’s stance.

[HarpHarp]

2 hours ago, OZ. said:

Not sure if this will work, but I sure hope so. The CDC really needs to start changing it’s stance.

As long as there are increasing rates of infections, the CDC will not change its stance. With half of the states showing large increases in infections, despite vaccinations at record highs, there are too many negatives right now. 
No cruise line can afford to be the owner of the next plaque ship. There are thousands of workers at the docks, provisioning the ship, working shoreside embarkation, that are potential disease vectors, not to mention the passengers who stay at hotels and so on. 
If we want to cruise, get the vaccine and do what we know stops the spread.  What is this going to do to cruise insurance rates and cruise line liability insurance?

 

[HBCcruiser]

April 15, 2021 C19 data. Interesting ...🤔

 

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/

[logan25]

16 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

April 15, 2021 C19 data. Interesting ...🤔

 

OK, inquiring minds want to know Nebraska’s secret to obtaining a negative death rate.  Sounds like something to emulate.

[farmersfight]

6 minutes ago, logan25 said:

OK, inquiring minds want to know Nebraska’s secret to obtaining a negative death rate.  Sounds like something to emulate.

 

It's all that corn. The cornhusker state.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/5/2021 at 10:23 AM, molly361 said:

If everyone will be fully vaccinated I wonder if face masks will be required?

Wife and I are fully vaccinated. 

If everyone is vaccinated, then there is no reason to require masks unless you're the type who wears a belt with their suspenders.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/5/2021 at 10:23 AM, molly361 said:

If everyone will be fully vaccinated I wonder if face masks will be required?

Of course masks will be required, if it's  up to CDC. 

Probably two or three.  Goggles and face shields too. 

And, a two week quarantine after the cruise too.

 

All in "an overabundance of caution".

After all "One can't be too safe".

And, "Every little bit helps".

And, "It won't hurt, so why not".

 

Did I leave something out?

Edited April 18, 2021 by RocketMan275

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Of course masks will be required, if it's  up to CDC. 

Probably two or three.  Goggles and face shields too. 

And, a two week quarantine after the cruise too.

 

All in "an overabundance of caution".

After all "One can't be too safe".

And, "Every little bit helps".

And, "It won't hurt, so why not".

 

Did I leave something out?

 

Hey @RocketMan275,

 

Check out our CC Rat Pack thread in the Floataway Lounge forum;

 

We're just a group of like-minded cruisers (who have the attributes listed in the original post; our "charter"). If you like what you see, just do a quick post on the CC Rat Pack thread.

 

Absolutely no pressure or $$ involved.

 

 

 

[DCGuy64]

On 4/16/2021 at 6:39 PM, logan25 said:

OK, inquiring minds want to know Nebraska’s secret to obtaining a negative death rate.  Sounds like something to emulate.

They're subtracting all of the people they CLAIM died from Covid to something else. IOW they're being honest about the actual numbers. What a concept. (I'm just guessing, BTW, but nothing would surprise me at this point)

[BermudaBound2014]

On 4/16/2021 at 6:39 PM, logan25 said:

OK, inquiring minds want to know Nebraska’s secret to obtaining a negative death rate.  Sounds like something to emulate.

 

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

They're subtracting all of the people they CLAIM died from Covid to something else. IOW they're being honest about the actual numbers. What a concept. (I'm just guessing, BTW, but nothing would surprise me at this point)

 

Maybe they brought 3 people back from the dead?

 

But seriously, if you weren't seriously questioning the numbers before (regardless of source), this should do it.

[Silver Sweethearts]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:59 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

But seriously, if you weren't seriously questioning the numbers before (regardless of source), this should do it.

 

Speaking of numbers, you do the math on the following (courtesy Maui Now this afternoon):

 

"Lt. Gov. Josh Green said herd immunity is not an exact science, but anticipates the state will approach that point around the July 4th weekend. “We won’t see a magic light go off,” he said, but said Hawaiʻi would have to get around 75 to 85 percent of the population vaccinated–translating to 1.8 to 2 million people."

 

The population of the whole state of Hawai'i is 1.4 million. No matter what percentages they think they need, how can you get 1.8 to 2 million vaccinated when there are only 1.4 million people here?  We are obviously missing something here.  

 

[Stallion]

49 minutes ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

 

Speaking of numbers, you do the math on the following (courtesy Maui Now this afternoon):

 

"Lt. Gov. Josh Green said herd immunity is not an exact science, but anticipates the state will approach that point around the July 4th weekend. “We won’t see a magic light go off,” he said, but said Hawaiʻi would have to get around 75 to 85 percent of the population vaccinated–translating to 1.8 to 2 million people."

 

The population of the whole state of Hawai'i is 1.4 million. No matter what percentages they think they need, how can you get 1.8 to 2 million vaccinated when there are only 1.4 million people here?  We are obviously missing something here.  

 

NPR has a calculation of 70% totally vaccinated by July 10 and 85% by August 9th in Hawaii. See third graph and then find your state. The collective number for the United States-I guess the average is about 10 days after Hawaii-but some states where vaccinations are much more divisive are projected to reach herd immunity months later. 

 

 The 4th graph is interesting too because it arranges each state in the order the state is likely to reach herd immunity

COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker: How Many People Have Been Vaccinated In The U.S.? : Shots - Health News : NPR

Edited April 21, 2021 by Stallion

[RocketMan275]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:48 AM, DCGuy64 said:

They're subtracting all of the people they CLAIM died from Covid to something else. IOW they're being honest about the actual numbers. What a concept. (I'm just guessing, BTW, but nothing would surprise me at this point)

The negative number indicates that the seven day average declined by 1 death.  Nothing nefarious.  Just an indication that there were fewer deaths in this seven day segment than in the previous one.  BTW, a decline of -1 is rather much noise.

[eileeshb]

On 4/6/2021 at 4:16 PM, giustot said:

Good point. But there is a movement going on to make non-vaccinated people a protected class. We don’t yet know how this is going to play out. Is it possible the US Supreme Court could eventually rule that requiring proof of vaccination to work, shop, or travel is unconstitutional? We don’t yet know. 
 

And to those who keep insisting private businesses can do whatever they want, look at what happened to the bakery that didn’t want to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple. 

There needs to be an understanding that being medically unable to get a vaccine is different to being unwilling to take a vaccine. However for those unable to get a vaccine we’ll just have to wait until everyone who is able (and hopefully willing) gets vaccinated which will then ensure herd immunity.

 

At the moment the EU and UK are talking about vaccine proof for travel *only* and very specifically saying it won’t stand for day to day activity. The chances are the vaccine for travel requirements won’t last in the long term but they’re certainly likely to be in place for another year +. At least a few medical professionals are speculating it could be as much as 5 years until it can be considered akin to flu for levels of seriousness.  
 

[DCGuy64]

11 minutes ago, eileeshb said:

There needs to be an understanding that being medically unable to get a vaccine is different to being unwilling to take a vaccine. However for those unable to get a vaccine we’ll just have to wait until everyone who is able (and hopefully willing) gets vaccinated which will then ensure herd immunity.

Yes, there is a difference. However, FDA approval in the USA for the current vaccines was granted only under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). There's a strong legal argument that you cannot require people to get a vaccine that is only authorized for emergency use, still less to make this a condition for employment, for example. Once all of the studies have been done and the vaccines are no longer just in EUA use, that could change. I am vaccinated but I sympathize with those who are hesitant, and given the murky legal territory, I can understand why some cruise lines aren't requiring passengers to be vaccinated.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:16 AM, giustot said:

Good point. But there is a movement going on to make non-vaccinated people a protected class. We don’t yet know how this is going to play out. Is it possible the US Supreme Court could eventually rule that requiring proof of vaccination to work, shop, or travel is unconstitutional? We don’t yet know. 

Perhaps but USSC has already ruled that a city can require vaccination.

 

On February 20, 1905, the Supreme Court, by a 7-2 majority, said in Jacobson v. Massachusetts that the city of Cambridge, Massachusetts could fine residents who refused to receive smallpox injections. 

 

Obviously, the city could require proof of vaccination.

[giustot]

6 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Perhaps but USSC has already ruled that a city can require vaccination.

 

On February 20, 1905, the Supreme Court, by a 7-2 majority, said in Jacobson v. Massachusetts that the city of Cambridge, Massachusetts could fine residents who refused to receive smallpox injections. 

 

Obviously, the city could require proof of vaccination.

This 115 year-old ruling gives Cities and States the right to require vaccinations. But both the Trump and Biden Administrations have said no US citizen will be required to be vaccinated. So what do we do? This is why issue of proof of vaccinations is so complicated and unsettled.

 

Rather than requiring vaccinations, some states are going in the opposite direction by specifically banning proof of vaccinations.

 

And, in my view as a non-lawyer, the Supreme Court case applies to States rights, not the rights of cruise lines and other businesses.

 

If States want to allow cruise lines that sail in their waters to require proof of vaccinations, that's fine with me. But, in my opinion, we are not there yet.

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, giustot said:

This 115 year-old ruling gives Cities and States the right to require vaccinations. But both the Trump and Biden Administrations have said no US citizen will be required to be vaccinated. So what do we do? This is why issue of proof of vaccinations is so complicated and unsettled.

 

Rather than requiring vaccinations, some states are going in the opposite direction by specifically banning proof of vaccinations.

 

And, in my view as a non-lawyer, the Supreme Court case applies to States rights, not the rights of cruise lines and other businesses.

 

If States want to allow cruise lines that sail in their waters to require proof of vaccinations, that's fine with me. But, in my opinion, we are not there yet.

The thing is, the states don't have the authority to ban a business from requiring proof of vaccination.  A business can set any rules as to who can be employed by, or be a customer of, their business, as long as it does not restrict a protected class of citizen.  Unvaccinated citizens are not a protected class.  Further, you enter into federal jurisdiction in the port areas, and international or maritime jurisdiction, with its jurisdictional overlap of port state and flag state, with regards to a foreign flag ship.

Edited April 22, 2021 by chengkp75

[hallux]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Unvaccinated citizens are not a protected class

For now, but there are some trying to change that...