If vaccinations are required, how are the cruise lines going to check for compliance?

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, phoneman69 said:

Is the Health Dept in every state going to have a database of every jab given. I got my shot's at the Hospital i work at. DW got her's threw the local CVS and my son went threw the state vaccine site. So many places giving shots how is it all stored ? I am slightly concerned about fake vaccine cards.

Perhaps you do not realize that every location providing vaccines (even the pop-ups) is associated with one of your current (or a new) entity that is considered to be a health care provider. Thus, existing or newly established, you have a bona fide medical record at that entity.

 

If you are fortunate, that record uses the MyChart electronic record system (over 100 million individuals have a MyChart record) or, at least, another Epic product or a different record system that can be synced with MyChart. And, since many of these sites do use MyChart, you will be able to link the records (though only the healthcare provider can make procedure entries in those records).

We received our shots from a Contra Costa County clinic we have never used. We were directed to complete the very brief process for access to our “new” medical record being established there due to the vaccination. And, when we returned home, it took only a few web clicks to sync that MyChart record with our primary MyChart records at UC San Francisco.

And, now, we have what is currently the most nationally recognized electronic record of our vaccination.

 
The bottom line here is that, if there ever is a vaccine passport or visa (added to your passport) requirement, it’s a good bet that the proof you provide will have to come from medical records other than the easily counterfeited card you were given at the injection site.

 

Is MyChart foolproof? Not completely. Synced records from vaccine provider to Primary Care Provider is as secure as can be. But, some PCPs may accept the CDC card as proof of vaccination and manually add it to your PCP record. But, it is unlikely that most folks would both counterfeit the CDC card AND lie to their regular MD.

 

In any case, and beyond the Covid card, every cruise passenger should make sure that their Primary Care Provider uses MyChart or another electronically syncable medical record system that is web accessible by the patient or by other health care providers (including those who do not use MyChart - BTW, MyChart has a “Share My Record” feature for viewing of your record by outlying providers such as those you might encounter in a foreign country).

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Philob said:

Well this bar owner was selling them for $20 per.😎

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/california-man-accused-selling-fake-vaccination-cards-77560362

 

An appropriate punishment would be to dump the guy in some place like India or Brazil where the pandemic is running wild.

[ilikeanswers]

7 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

An appropriate punishment would be to dump the guy in some place like India or Brazil where the pandemic is running wild.

 

He'll probably just get in on the fake registration scam😖

Hackers target Indian users with fake COVID-19 vaccine registration message

[jocap]

For UK passengers, there will be an app for phones and tablets released on May 17th (the next stepping stone out of the strict lockdown we've had for months).

People without phones etc can ring NHS 119 on that date and apply for a written letter.

Used with the normal passport, the details of the person should match, although I suppose that someone could still fake it- I don't know if there are any procedures to stop that.

May 17th also allows eating INSIDE pubs and cafes- at least in England, but not certain about the other 3 countries, which have their own rules about this.

Today's deaths across the UK are down to one; my own county of Cumbria has had just one new case of covid-19 this week, so the lockdown has been working. 🥰

(Edit- just checked the deaths, and they've now gone up to 2)

Edited May 9, 2021 by jocap
Checked facts

[Lady Chew]

12 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Perhaps you do not realize that every location providing vaccines (even the pop-ups) is associated with one of your current (or a new) entity that is considered to be a health care provider. Thus, existing or newly established, you have a bona fide medical record at that entity.

 

 

 

How is every location providing vaccines associated with individual health care providers?  Maybe just in your state?

 

We got our shots at CVS.  They did not ask for any information about our health care providers.  We've been getting our flu shots there for years, and other vaccines as needed (shingles, pneumonia, etc) and they have never asked about our doctors.  So CVS has no way to provide info about vaccines to doctors.

 

We always give the doctors office the vaccine info ourselves.  They add it to our records, but they've never asked for any documentation.

[Flatbush Flyer]

21 minutes ago, Lady Chew said:

 

How is every location providing vaccines associated with individual health care providers?  Maybe just in your state?

 

We got our shots at CVS.  They did not ask for any information about our health care providers.  We've been getting our flu shots there for years, and other vaccines as needed (shingles, pneumonia, etc) and they have never asked about our doctors.  So CVS has no way to provide info about vaccines to doctors.

 

We always give the doctors office the vaccine info ourselves.  They add it to our records, but they've never asked for any documentation.

Perhaps you misunderstood my post.

 

The vaccine sites (like CVS or a popup or your MD’s office) are associated with some “official” entity (e.g., a County Health Department, hospital, retail pharmacy, “doc in the box,” your PCP etc) who has been issued the vaccines for distribution. If you do not already have a “medical record” with that entity (which you apparently already do have with CVS if you’ve had other vaccines there), one will be created for you (whether you realize it or not). That record will have the complete details of the vaccine you received which is more than what appears on the card you were given. And, should it come to the point of needing some sort of vaccine passport or visa for future travel, you may find that the current card in your possession may not be acceptable proof. Thus, you MAY need to be able to access the actual medical record of that vaccination to get the “Covid passport.” We shall see. 

And, hopefully, that vaccine record is retrievable by you electronically (e.g., the vaccine provider uses MyChart or some other record system that is accessible for you to view on their app and website - if you’ve registered). You should be able to access your vaccine info on CVS’ system and/or app.

 

But, while that’s good news, the question remains:

Is that complete CVS record syncable with the rest of your medical records (including ALL your MD notes, lab tests, vaccines, surgeries, radiology images etc. That’s where a medical record system like MyChart is worth so much when you encounter a new health care provider near home (or thousands of miles away). Everything in one place. 

 

And, yes, if your doc doesn’t use MyChart or some similar system, info like your vaccines can be manually entered by your doc’s office. But, for Covid, they can then only enter the incomplete info on the card you showed his/her office. And, as aforementioned, none of us know how much info will be required for any vaccine passport. (It may be more controlled than the current WHO “yellow card” for Yellow Fever vaccines et al. (another card that can be counterfeited).

And, again, with a record system like MyChart, there is great flexibility since you can electronically join multiple MyChart records (from different providers) while also authorizing info sharing with health care providers who don’t use MyChart.

 

FWIW, after asking about Medicare and our supplementary insurance’s acceptance at any potentially new MD’s office, the next question I ask is whether they use MyChart. Fortunately (and intentionally), all of my principal MDs, labs, etc are UCSF entities. So everything is synced. And, though we got the Covid vaccine from our County, it too uses MyChart. So,  I just “joined” the records which I can share (partly or wholly)  as may be necessary and/or as I decide.

[LHT28]

19 hours ago, Lady Chew said:

We got our shots at CVS.  They did not ask for any information about our health care providers.  We've been getting our flu shots there for years, and other vaccines as needed (shingles, pneumonia, etc) and they have never asked about our doctors. 

 

They do not even ask your name ??

😲

[Donald]

Italy already has a free Smartphone App required for anyone entering the country.

Japan will soon introduce a similar App for everyone entering or leaving Japan. 

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Lady Chew said:

 

We got our shots at CVS.  They did not ask for any information about our health care providers. 

 

I have a bit of concern about this as well.  My two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were taken at CVS.  Checking "My Chart" for me this afternoon, there is no record there that I am fully vaccinated.  My PCP knows that I am.  He is part of the same medical network that produces "My Chart".  The data is not recorded.

 

The use of electronic medical records by those who care for me have not encouraged me to think that this is a major advance to the benefit of the patient.   I can cite other examples unrelated to the Covid vaccine doses.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

53 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have a bit of concern about this as well.  My two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were taken at CVS.  Checking "My Chart" for me this afternoon, there is no record there that I am fully vaccinated.  My PCP knows that I am.  He is part of the same medical network that produces "My Chart".  The data is not recorded.

 

The use of electronic medical records by those who care for me have not encouraged me to think that this is a major advance to the benefit of the patient.   I can cite other examples unrelated to the Covid vaccine doses.  

Contact CVS and sign or otherwise authorize a Covid shots “release of information” to your PCP MD. 

Alternately, you could also ask for the CVS to give you a printout (similar to what you get for the flu vaccine from them). It should have added info like dosage etc. Give that to your MD for entry in MY Chart “Immunizations” listed under “Health Summaries” (or send it as an attachment to the MD via MyChart messaging).

Unified medical records are still a “work in progress.” But be happy that you have MyChart.

 

FWIW: When I decided to ordinate the bulk of my care at UCSF, I copied every e-doc, pdf, et al. records and CD/DVD images in my possession and delivered them to UCSF for uploading to MyChart if it wasn’t already there. Where essential, I also used multiple ROIs to get other docs to them.

Fortunately, some providers I had used in the past joined the UCSF “family” and their records were uploaded over time.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer

[crazyank]

7 hours ago, Donald said:

Italy already has a free Smartphone App required for anyone entering the country.

Japan will soon introduce a similar App for everyone entering or leaving Japan. 

Please state your source for the Italian App.  we can't find anything on it

 

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, crazyank said:

Please state your source for the Italian App.  we can't find anything on it

 

Agreed - Italy may intend to introduce one, but ut certainly doesn't exist at the moment.

The UK ( but not Scotland) NHS app, is meant to show your vaccine record, effective from May 17th. We will see if that works out smoothly.

[ilikeanswers]

7 hours ago, crazyank said:

Please state your source for the Italian App.  we can't find anything on it

 

Try this:

Italy might revamp COVID-19 tracing app for vaccine passports

[Hlitner]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have a bit of concern about this as well.  My two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were taken at CVS.  Checking "My Chart" for me this afternoon, there is no record there that I am fully vaccinated.  My PCP knows that I am.  He is part of the same medical network that produces "My Chart".  The data is not recorded.

 

The use of electronic medical records by those who care for me have not encouraged me to think that this is a major advance to the benefit of the patient.   I can cite other examples unrelated to the Covid vaccine doses.  

We got our shots (Pfizer) at Rite Aid.  We filled out a form where we gave them our primary care provider and, in theory, Rite Aid is supposed to send information on our shot directly to our own physician (who is part of a large medical system).  Rite Aid also gave us the completed CDC Covid Vaccination card.  We later heard from our physician's office that if we want to stop in with our CDC card, they would enter that into our medical record.  They do not trust Rite Aid to properly forward the information.

 

Hank

[evandbob]

Wouldn't CVS, Walmart, Publix, etc. have one's insurance info on file or ask for it during sign up?  I'm doubt they are giving the shots away for free, so they need your basic info for billing purposes.

 

From there, it may be the "patient's" responsibility to get the data into their personal medical record or chart.  The procedure may vary a bit state by state, but the billing info might go into a  state wide master file that can be used for verification.

 

In my case, if I get an immunization at a place like CVS, I'll use my health group's portal to message my doctor with the info. I have the COVID vaccination card as backup, but I hear these cards are easily duplicated and available for purchase by phonies.

[wowzz]

7 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Try this:

Italy might revamp COVID-19 tracing app for vaccine passports

Italy "might" revamp its app is not the same as actually doing it.

Incidentally,  the UK (not Scotland) app will show vaccination records from May 17th. 

Assuming that this goes without a hitch (big ask!) travelling overseas will be a lot easier for us Brits (but not the Scots) from next week. 

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, evandbob said:

Wouldn't CVS, Walmart, Publix, etc. have one's insurance info on file or ask for it during sign up?  I'm doubt they are giving the shots away for free, so they need your basic info for billing purposes.

 

From there, it may be the "patient's" responsibility to get the data into their personal medical record or chart.  The procedure may vary a bit state by state, but the billing info might go into a  state wide master file that can be used for verification.

 

In my case, if I get an immunization at a place like CVS, I'll use my health group's portal to message my doctor with the info. I have the COVID vaccination card as backup, but I hear these cards are easily duplicated and available for purchase by phonies.

 

They sure are! You don't need insurance to get the shot. They charge those with insurance a small administrative fee that most insurers pick up because landing in the hospital with covid costs a lot more than the small administrative fee (currently $40). Those without insurance, the government picks up the administrative fee (along with the cost of the vaccine for everyone). This is the reason they ask for your insurance info if you have insurance. Those without insurance, or identification even, can also get the shots. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, evandbob said:

Wouldn't CVS, Walmart, Publix, etc. have one's insurance info on file or ask for it during sign up?  I'm doubt they are giving the shots away for free, so they need your basic info for billing purposes.

 

From there, it may be the "patient's" responsibility to get the data into their personal medical record or chart.  The procedure may vary a bit state by state, but the billing info might go into a  state wide master file that can be used for verification.

 

In my case, if I get an immunization at a place like CVS, I'll use my health group's portal to message my doctor with the info. I have the COVID vaccination card as backup, but I hear these cards are easily duplicated and available for purchase by phonies.

Let me try this a different way. 
Not unlike a TV cop show, keeping the evidence protected is essential. Thus, in an ideal world, the vaccine recipient should not be  in the line of evidence transmitters from vaccine site to your preferred medical record. 
That’s why you can view a medical record but not “write” in it  (other than to reply to specific questions).

Yes, you can “reply” to vaccine questions. But, that is not proof and what will be acceptable proof for Covid vaccine has yet to be established. In essence than, that card we have received May end up being a receipt but not proof.

 

As for pharmacies having your insurance info, that really depends on who’s providing your prescription coverage (for drugs) and/or your medical coverage (for procedures) - further complicated by the nature of whatever you’re receiving (e.g., who pays for a blood glucose meter?). If all you get from a pharmacy is typical medications, that pharmacy may only have that insurance info (e.g., Part D of Medicare). But, once you get a procedure at a pharmacy (e.g., flu shot), that record is a medical record in every sense of the term.

 

In any case, however, the key thing as MAY end up relating to proof of Covid vaccination is the “chain of evidence” where (preferably electronically or, at least, by snail mail), the record of your vaccination has gone straight from provider (vaccination site) to provider (your PCP MD or wherever your primary medical record resides) without you or anyone else touching it).

 

Again, wherever you get the vaccine, do whatever is necessary to have THAT actual procedure record sent to your most comprehensive permanent medical record.

[ilikeanswers]

It seems to me we need some sort of internationally recognised evidence of vaccination. I just can't see foreign governments being able to understand all these different systems😕. The International Drivers License is a document that essentially translates so to speak your drivers licence into something that any country who subscribes to the system can understand. Some sort of uniform system like this would be useful for international travel otherwise it feels like all these different vaccine passports are going to a bit of a mess. 

[Donald]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Italy "might" revamp its app is not the same as actually doing it.

Incidentally,  the UK (not Scotland) app will show vaccination records from May 17th. 

Assuming that this goes without a hitch (big ask!) travelling overseas will be a lot easier for us Brits (but not the Scots) from next week. 

I am flying to Italy next week.

The Italian Government has informed me that I am required to sign up for the Immuni App and show it upon landing at Rome.

The sign up page for the App requires me to tell them if I have received any vaccine, and the dates.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Donald said:

I am flying to Italy next week.

The Italian Government has informed me that I am required to sign up for the Immuni App and show it upon landing at Rome.

The sign up page for the App requires me to tell them if I have received any vaccine, and the dates.

This is a "track and trace" app, and allowing you to enter your own vaccination details obviously allows for abuse. The UK one I am referring to, transfers your personal vaccination details from central records onto the app. Totally different system.

[crazyank]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:16 AM, crazyank said:

Italy already has a free Smartphone App required for anyone entering the country.

Japan will soon introduce a similar App for everyone entering or leaving Japan. 

we have spoken to the Italian consulate, the App is recommended but NOT required.

[Donald]

2 hours ago, crazyank said:

we have spoken to the Italian consulate, the App is recommended but NOT required.

I don’t care that it is not required. I’m doing it anyway.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

I don’t care that it is not required. I’m doing it anyway.

You are aware that it is just "Track and Trace" aren't you ? 

[happy cruzer]

Many people were vaccinated by fire departments starting in Dec of last year and only given paper documents that contained the vaccine used and the date.  The person vaccinated filled in name and date of birth which was the only information ever provided at any time in the process.

 

I posted in another thread that testing may help.  Regardless of the manner of proving vaccination or immunity; testing before, during and after travel would cover alot of issues.