Court rules for Florida in cruise case, grants injunction stopping CDC order...

[K12Guy]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

Great news for Florida, bad news for those who said DeSantis had no chance in h*** of winning this case. 😂

If you read and understand the ruling it really isn't much of a victory, rather it just says that the CDC orders are not enforceable in Florida. DeSantis hasn't really 'won' anything. Also, Florida cannot keep cruise lines from creating and enforcing policy for those who want to board as nonvaccinated.

The governor may actually be hurting the industry by forcing cruise lines to allow non-vaccinated passengers. Time will tell.

[Fouremco]

9 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yes, I do. In fact, I know they would. MSC began sailing again in August, and only had a handful of cases on board after carrying tens of thousands of passengers. Now I’ve answered your question, please answer mine: do you really think the cruise lines voluntarily decided to forgo billions in income on purpose? For somebody with a post count as high as yours, you seem pretty anti-cruise. 

LOL, of course the cruise lines stopped on their own accord when they were faced with a number of disastrous COVID outbreaks aboard cruises in the early days. The same with cruise lines globally. While there was a very small and limited number of earlier returns to sailing, none of the countries involved has the case and death load that was present in the US. The CSO was a very necessary thing IMO, albeit perhaps lacking in flexibility. On the other hand, I believe that some of the delay in getting going again can be attributed to the cruise industry, seemingly not willing to cooperate with the CDC.  

 

For the record, I'm very pro cruising as long as it is safe, and that includes vaccinations for the time being. 

[ipeeinthepool]

Ok, so what are the problem restrictions for the cruise lines?  Is it the requirement to have passengers vaccinated or test cruises?  Is it the requirement to have the crew vaccinated?  Is it the requirement to have local agreements in place to handle any infections?  They all seem like good ideas to me.

[MrCoachRentz]

Great news for Florida and for cruising!  Cruise lines get treated like every other business.  You are a consumer and can choose whether or not you want to sail on a ship/line that doesn't have protocols that suit you.  I'm vaccinated so I really don't care who on my ship is/isn't.  

[basenji56]

You can 

1 minute ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Ok, so what are the problem restrictions for the cruise lines?  Is it the requirement to have passengers vaccinated or test cruises?  Is it the requirement to have the crew vaccinated?  Is it the requirement to have local agreements in place to handle any infections?  They all seem like good ideas to me.

You can see that Celebrity is doing these things from its cruises that start in St. Maarten.  The CDC has no power over St. Maarten cruises.

[MrCoachRentz]

I think most cruise lines will continue the current protocols because they make sense in the current environment.  I went to Vegas last fall and there was no "CSO" in place to prevent Casinos from operating nor preventing people from having fun.  The CSO had out lived it's usefulness and I don't see the CDC keeping it in place.

 

[Cruising89143]

4 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

You can 

You can see that Celebrity is doing these things from its cruises that start in St. Maarten.  The CDC has no power over St. Maarten cruises.

I agree. I don’t see Celebrity changing anything. They found a way around the vaccine game. I do feel that it would benefit them to come out and state “business as usual” with cruises from FL.

[Jazzbo]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Can you please cite the source of this poll? The only survey I’ve seen floating around was conducted using a small number of cruise enthusiasts (many with more than 10 cruises). I’ve seen no polls that can be generalized to the “American population”. You may be correct, but I have not seen any surveys which confirm this assertation. I’d love to read the poll You reference.

I couldn't get the link, but here's the headline, source, date, and  author (I had forgotten it was specific to cruises):

Poll shows vast majority of Floridians disagree on DeSantis policy, think it’s OK to require COVID-19 vaccinations for cruise passengers

 

SOUTH FLORIDA SUN SENTINEL |

JUN 16, 2021 AT 12:58 PM

 

By Anthony Man

[Moonarino]

49 minutes ago, Mike45LC said:

It is important for them to read and thoroughly analyze the decision before selecting the next steps.  I only got five pages into the 124 page decision before deciding that I will put it aside for now!  But I did save it for my leisure time.

I agree, was just saying I'm sure they already had a couple of what-if-this-or-thats lined up along with associated tactics to implement. The big dogs didn't get in the positions they're in by sitting on their thumbs.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

47 minutes ago, cruisingator2 said:

Now the question becomes will Florida allow ships that have positive cases on board to dock and remove those quests if they aren’t from the state? They had an issue doing this last year. 
 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/coronavirus/2020/03/30/coronavirus-florida-governor-doesnt-want-cruise-ship-to-dock-in-state/112253492/

We were just wondering the same thing.

[colliece]

Just now, Moonarino said:

I agree, was just saying I'm sure they already had a couple of what-if-this-or-thats lined up along with associated tactics to implement. The big dogs didn't get in the positions they're in by sitting on their thumbs.

True enough, they way people comment you think businesses are just reactionary, any good strategic planning has to look at all the possibilities and plan accordingly.  Its kind of like coaching (waiting for that guy to say are you comparing COIVD to a game).  You make a plan, but you have alternative plays in place in case the opposition response is effective.  If you do not, you usually will not have a job very long.

 

Business is no different, they have very high paid people who no more about this stuff then we do, and I am sure they have a long list of options to go through, probably why they have not made any comment on the legal proceedings as they have plans for whoever won.  

[colliece]

2 minutes ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

We were just wondering the same thing.

As we know a lot more now then we did then, I would say without a doubt there would be plans in place should there be an issue.  Which just to refresh everyone, Celebrity had this issue already.  The passengers were quarantined, removed from the ship and put in a hotel in St. Maarten, and where then flown home at Celebrity's expense on a private medical plane.  

[basenji56]

11 minutes ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

We were just wondering the same thing.

This was in the very early days of Covid.  March 2020. When they told us that Covid had a 3-4% death rate and no known treatments.  Things are very different today.

 

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Gov. Ron DeSantis doesn't want the people on a cruise ship where four people died and others are sick to be treated in Florida, saying the state doesn't have the capacity to treat outsiders as the coronavirus outbreak spreads.

 

DeSantis said it would be "a mistake" to bring the cruise ship passengers into South Florida for treatment because it already has a high number of new coronavirus infections and that number is growing. He said the area's hospital beds need to be saved for residents and not "foreign nationals."

Edited June 19, 2021 by basenji56

[evandbob]

I received an email solicitation for a free balcony for up to 4 people on the June 26 Edge sailing about an hour after the preliminary injunction was announced.

 

Coincidence?

[colliece]

Just now, harkinmr said:

That’s all you’re going to get here from a lot of folks. 
 

The court order grants injunctive relief to the State of Florida but leaves the CSO in place until July 18th.  So nothing changes until that date.  The judge has also offered the CDC the opportunity to revise the CSO to be more in line with his order and legal conclusions and the two parties have been ordered back to mediation.  The CDC can appeal the today’s order as well. What this does to the restart in the interim is anybody’s guess. It will also impact Alaska cruises depending upon any replacement order. 

They can appeal, but the injunction will not be lifted, as the judge determined that Florida was likely to win on the merits.  So they can appeal but the order will considered a guideline until another judge rules in an appeal.  He is given the CDC 2 weeks to revise their order and then Florida a week to respond to their changes, then he will rule on their revised requirements.

[CaroleSS]

Just now, goofysmom99 said:

I posted a link to the University of South Florida poll back at post #62.  Here it is again.  Two newspapers I subscribe to had mentions this evening.

And if you actually READ the "article" it starts out by saying

Researchers at the University of South Florida conducted a statewide survey of 600 Floridians....

 

600 Floridians? Say whaaaaaaa? My statistics peers are rolling on the floor laughing over this insanely miniscule population! 

[Jazzbo]

5 minutes ago, goofysmom99 said:

I posted a link to the University of South Florida poll back at post #62.  Here it is again.  Two newspapers I subscribe to had mentions this evening.

That's the poll referenced in the Sun Sentinel article I read. 

[Susanb10567]

19 minutes ago, evandbob said:

I received an email solicitation for a free balcony for up to 4 people on the June 26 Edge sailing about an hour after the preliminary injunction was announced.

 

Coincidence?

But the CSO is still in effect until July 18th

[goofysmom99]

Just now, Jazzbo said:

That's the poll referenced in the Sun Sentinel article I read. 

Yup.  I just pointed people to the poll.  Not my intention to interpret it, ridicule it, promote it or whatever.  Just where it is.  Anyone can make his/her own interpretation.

[Jazzbo]

Just now, goofysmom99 said:

Yup.  I just pointed people to the poll.  Not my intention to interpret it, ridicule it, promote it or whatever.  Just where it is.  Anyone can make his/her own interpretation.

 

Thanks.  I think it's helpful for people to be able to read it for themselves. 

[kelleherdl]

1 hour ago, fsr44 said:

To clarify, particularly for those not in the US or not familiar with the legal process, this is not a final judgment. It’s a preliminary injunction.  Think of it as a “for now” order while the court decides the merits of the case. That’s why it is time-limited and why the court sent the parties back to mediation. Those celebrating and those lamenting would be wise to note that nothing is settled yet.

Please read at least the conclusion in the ruling.  Judge Merryday issued the injunction because Florida is LIKELY (my emphasis) to prevail on the merits of the case.

[Cruising89143]

8 minutes ago, goofysmom99 said:

Yup.  I just pointed people to the poll.  Not my intention to interpret it, ridicule it, promote it or whatever.  Just where it is.  Anyone can make his/her own interpretation.

And nothing wrong with that. Thanks for sharing. 😊

[harkinmr]

17 minutes ago, colliece said:

They can appeal, but the injunction will not be lifted, as the judge determined that Florida was likely to win on the merits.  So they can appeal but the order will considered a guideline until another judge rules in an appeal.  He is given the CDC 2 weeks to revise their order and then Florida a week to respond to their changes, then he will rule on their revised requirements.

They can appeal and the appellate court could stay the district court’s order which would leave the CSO in place pending resolution of the appeal. I understand what the district court’s timeline is. The question is when the CDC would file an appeal. Now or later if the mediation fails. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by harkinmr

[colliece]

1 minute ago, kelleherdl said:

Please read at least the conclusion in the ruling.  Judge Merryday issued the injunction because Florida is LIKELY (my emphasis) to prevail on the merits of the case.

Don't worry the "keyboard lawyers" will come out with their analysis and spin on how the State of Florida did not really win.  

[Oville]

4 minutes ago, colliece said:

Don't worry the "keyboard lawyers" will come out with their analysis and spin on how the State of Florida did not really win.  

He who knows it all.