This why cruise ships should not allow any unvaccinated adult onboard any ship.

[Ken the cruiser]

50 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Ken- I agree not right in normal times.  But perhaps a baby step (an expensive one!) to get cruising started again.  In a year or two (?) when COVID is treated like influenza or any other medically managed diseases then cruise lines will stop doing this.

Well, the cruise lines can decide what's best for them. We always get the cruise insurance with the medivac option, so we're covered either way. 😎

[Babr]

55 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

So if I wind up getting sick on a ship for any reason where I require to be flown back to the US and didn't bother to buy insurance that included medivac coverage, it's on the cruise line to pay for it? That doesn't seem right.

 

I don’t think that is the way it is going to work. For now the cruise lines are adhering to plans put in place that allow them to return to cruising. That is how they can fly people home on charters even though they test positive. Commercial air would not allow that.

 

Some cruise lines are requiring people to buy insurance now as a condition of sailing. No insurance, no boarding. It may be Carnival for July and August, but I’ve read protocols for several lines, and they are beginning to blur. Princess and Celebrity have also spelled out assistance plans, but they are limited by booking dates, sailing dates and/ or vaccination status. Most expire by the end of the year.

 

In other words, the cruise lines are providing assistance now in order to facilitate the start of cruising, but they are not going to be financially responsible indefinitely. 

[bigwawao]

Hi!

 

With regards to the medivac flights,  I do agree that it is part of the protocol with ports and the CDC.

 

Speaking of insurance,, MSC has required insurance since their inception of cruising last July in the Mediterranean.  If I recall right,  they paid for the insurance.   Here, in the US,  they are still paying for the separate Covid insurance for you if you are vaxxed.  For the unvaxxed, you have to buy BOTH travel and Covid insurance- from them.  Not anywhere else as allowed by RC, Carnival, etc.  

 

Personally, I think this is a better move as it avoids problems later with billing the insurance; questions on whether the insurance you both outside will cover a medivac for an asymptomatic patient, etc.  MSC takes care of it and has an agreement with their insurance carrier.

 

I agree that it is, at least for now, it’s a horrible idea to allow unvaccinated passengers on a cruise.  but our CDC has been acting strangely thru out this pandemic with respect to the cruise industry.  Last April NCL declared that they will cruise 110% vaccinated.  No response until around June and not to NCL.  They only moved when politics got involved.    So I do not see how they can do what the UK is doing.

[TeeRick]

20 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Well, the cruise lines can decide what's best for them. We always get the cruise insurance with the medivac option, so we're covered either way. 😎

We get an annual 1 year GeoBlue policy for medical covering all of our trips as back up medical coverage (and medivac) worldwide.  It is pretty inexpensive.  Then we go with some type of individual policy for each trip to cover trip interruption,  baggage, etc.  We will now carefully review if this approach is sufficient in the new age of COVID and travel.

[latserrof]

People like her are the reason I am in no hurry to return to cruising.

[HMR74]

People need to read the contracts they are signing.

 

They mostly protect the business, some are done  to protect the "business and customer", but its the fine print that you have to be aware of. eg, who does not understand the business reason for the 1 bottle of wine or no firearms?

 

You are faced with a take it or leave it situation with any contract--eg, read your bank checking account agreement. Or the waivers we signed when getting vaccinated.

 

 

 

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

On 7/18/2021 at 11:49 AM, Ken the cruiser said:

Well, the cruise lines can decide what's best for them. We always get the cruise insurance with the medivac option, so we're covered either way. 😎

Where do you get a medivac option? We have a Travelguard policy. 
BTW…. Look forward to meeting you on 8/7!
sheila

[snowballs mom]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

We get an annual 1 year GeoBlue policy for medical covering all of our trips as back up medical coverage (and medivac) worldwide.  It is pretty inexpensive.  Then we go with some type of individual policy for each trip to cover trip interruption,  baggage, etc.  We will now carefully review if this approach is sufficient in the new age of COVID and travel.

Thank you for the tip regarding GeoBlue. I just ran a quick quote, and will be using their insurance for our 2022 travels.

[Ken the cruiser]

30 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Where do you get a medivac option? We have a Travelguard policy. 
BTW…. Look forward to meeting you on 8/7!
sheila

Hi Sheila! We usually just get the insurance through the cruise line we sail with. A few years ago we looked at 3rd party insurance companies, but decided it was easier just to get it through the cruise line. Yes, it's a little more expensive, but we are "low stress" cruisers and for us it's just easier. We also, at times, sail longer than 30 days at a time which seems to be a limiting factor for a lot of 3rd party insurance companies.

[Babr]

1 hour ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Where do you get a medivac option? We have a Travelguard policy. 
BTW…. Look forward to meeting you on 8/7!
sheila

If you buy a comprehensive policy, it is included. Such policies cover cancellation, trip delay, trip interruption, baggage, and various other travel related hazards as well as medical and evacuation. These days it is a good idea to read carefully to be sure there is no Covid exception.

[BigAl94]

The markets are jittery https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/25503-covid-19-variant-fears-hit-cruise-line-stocks-hard.html

[Babr]

6 hours ago, TeeRick said:

We get an annual 1 year GeoBlue policy for medical covering all of our trips as back up medical coverage (and medivac) worldwide.  It is pretty inexpensive.  Then we go with some type of individual policy for each trip to cover trip interruption,  baggage, etc.  We will now carefully review if this approach is sufficient in the new age of COVID and travel.

Have you checked your credit card benefits for travel protection? Some people are comfortable pairing that for cancellation and other travel related risks with an annual policy for medical and evacuation.

[cl.klink]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:11 PM, seabeew said:

According to Royal’s current policy, passengers who  test positive will be flown home in a medivac jet at Royal’s expense.

 

 

Hmmm.  I wonder if I could strategize that, somehow. ... Hmmm.  A positive test result toward the end of the the cruise ...  Hmmm.

 

- Joel

[D C]

On 7/15/2021 at 1:09 PM, Ken the cruiser said:

Sure would be interesting to see the video, if there was one, when she was checking in at the terminal to see exactly what happened and why she got the bracelet. Also curious, but will probably never hear, if there were other unvaccinated passengers that got the bracelet or was she the only one?? As with many things, there are always 2 sides to the story. My guess is the crew member involved with giving her the bracelet probably has an entire different story as to what happen. 

I would love to see that video and I suspect RCL has it.  Doubtful that we're privileged enough to view though.    I suspect she was manipulating the situation from the get go. 

[bigwawao]

If she has not removed the video, the full 20 minutes is in her facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/laura.franchiangelo/videos/1507938279552983/?t=70

 

I have posted several times on different forums about her already and we can all agree only on one thing- which both her and RC have confirmed

 

1. she gave a negative PCR test on embarkation.

 

After that it becomes murky.  Only RC can tell us but it is probably keeping all evidence in the locker in case of a potential lawsuit.

 

Here is a quick take (mine)

 

If she did give a negative PCR on embarkation her subsequent test - be it in the port which should be, or two days later which was the case,  turned positiv.

 

Only two takes here.   

1.  She fibbed a fake negative PCR test because she knew she was positive at the start.  Inference-  from the video, after her test was taken but BEFORE the results came out,  she already said she knew it was gonna be positive.

 

2.  She gave a real PCR test result and is one of the few who got a reinfection.  Remember she is an antivaxxer.

 

My take is # 1.  In the video,  she said, she cannot breathe. She has asthma!  And this is despite talking and shouting non stop.   I think she wants to get a purple dinosaur band so she doesn't have to mask up.  If RC can confirm only she and her friend got the band, then something is suspicious.  

 

Have you ever wondered if she tested positive at embarkation would she go quietly?  Or start another rant?   My take- another rant-  " I can't be positive.  I just had covid in March.  My antibodies are high. "   These statements make me think otherwise.

 

I do not want to get into the vaccine discussion.  Let me innocently add fuel to the fire though.  The vaccine makers do not tout their vaccines on the preventing you from getting covid but more on preventing you from getting severe disease and death.  If it prevents you from getting the disease in the first place, it prevents you from severe disease and death.

 

Everyone is touting 2 weeks from the last dose.. Since JJ is a single shot, it is two weeks from it.  Pfizer is 2 shots so it is 4 weeks from the first shot ( 2 weeks from the second shot).  Is there a reason for this variance.

 

From the fda.gov 9which was derived from the JJ website

 

"  Additionally, the vaccine was approximately 77% effective in preventing severe/critical COVID-19 occurring at least 14 days after vaccination and 85% effective in preventing severe/critical COVID-19 occurring at least 28 days after vaccination.  "

 

So maximal protection is after 28 days.  

 

 

 

 

 

[WestLakeGirl]

How did she manage to get to the ship?  Did she fly? Did she wear a mask?

[PS0DSH]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when they remove they first Covid-Positive passenger who is fully vaccinated.

[bigwawao]

She flew.  As per her video,  she was negotiating with Keith (RC supervisor or something on board)  for her flight cost TO Florida.   Wow!  She actually filmed her blatant callousness.  Wonder is she had a mask while on the plane?

 

cool cruiser,  I still think all lines should test everyone on embarkation.  That way you removed the cruiser who is positive before she/he sets sail.  That way you deal with a smaller can of worms.

 

And yes, if you are vax and positive, be man ( or woman) enough to accept it.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by bigwawao

[kearney]

1 hour ago, bigwawao said:

If she has not removed the video, the full 20 minutes is in her facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/laura.franchiangelo/videos/1507938279552983/?t=70

 

I have posted several times on different forums about her already and we can all agree only on one thing- which both her and RC have confirmed

 

1. she gave a negative PCR test on embarkation.

 

After that it becomes murky.  Only RC can tell us but it is probably keeping all evidence in the locker in case of a potential lawsuit.

 

Here is a quick take (mine)

 

If she did give a negative PCR on embarkation her subsequent test - be it in the port which should be, or two days later which was the case,  turned positiv.

 

Only two takes here.   

1.  She fibbed a fake negative PCR test because she knew she was positive at the start.  Inference-  from the video, after her test was taken but BEFORE the results came out,  she already said she knew it was gonna be positive.

 

2.  She gave a real PCR test result and is one of the few who got a reinfection.  Remember she is an antivaxxer.

 

My take is # 1.  In the video,  she said, she cannot breathe. She has asthma!  And this is despite talking and shouting non stop.   I think she wants to get a purple dinosaur band so she doesn't have to mask up.  If RC can confirm only she and her friend got the band, then something is suspicious.  

 

Have you ever wondered if she tested positive at embarkation would she go quietly?  Or start another rant?   My take- another rant-  " I can't be positive.  I just had covid in March.  My antibodies are high. "   These statements make me think otherwise.

 

I do not want to get into the vaccine discussion.  Let me innocently add fuel to the fire though.  The vaccine makers do not tout their vaccines on the preventing you from getting covid but more on preventing you from getting severe disease and death.  If it prevents you from getting the disease in the first place, it prevents you from severe disease and death.

 

Everyone is touting 2 weeks from the last dose.. Since JJ is a single shot, it is two weeks from it.  Pfizer is 2 shots so it is 4 weeks from the first shot ( 2 weeks from the second shot).  Is there a reason for this variance.

 

From the fda.gov 9which was derived from the JJ website

 

"  Additionally, the vaccine was approximately 77% effective in preventing severe/critical COVID-19 occurring at least 14 days after vaccination and 85% effective in preventing severe/critical COVID-19 occurring at least 28 days after vaccination.  "

 

So maximal protection is after 28 days.  

 

 

 

 

 

Okay here is the wrinkle. According to CDC guidance for travels...section which includes cruising:

"If you recently recovered from COVID-19:
If you tested positive for COVID-19 in the past 3 months and met criteria to end isolation, you do NOT need to get tested before or after cruise travel unless you are symptomatic. CDC has found that people can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after they had COVID-19 and not be infectious to others." here is the link https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/returning-cruise-voyages.html

 

What is interesting is that Royal health protocols make no mention of how they handle recovered COVID passengers.... yet another poster noted that health protocols for sailings out of Singapore.. do note that passengers can test positive and for that reason they should not sail at this time...or words to that effect. Seems to me that similar policy should be in place for US sailings..or more situations where recently recovered will be kicked off for the positive tests that they will likely receive. Better that they are pissed off early than at the port.  Early in her video she specifically notes having had Covid within 3 months and that she had the antibody tests showing that she had high levels. Based on CDC info.. it should not have been a surprise that she tested positive..and this type of situation should have been planned for. BUT the CDC guideline for cruise lines makes no mention of this...only in guidance for travelers...unless I missed it.

[terrydtx]

11 minutes ago, kearney said:

Okay here is the wrinkle. According to CDC guidance for travels...section which includes cruising:

"If you recently recovered from COVID-19:
If you tested positive for COVID-19 in the past 3 months and met criteria to end isolation, you do NOT need to get tested before or after cruise travel unless you are symptomatic. CDC has found that people can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after they had COVID-19 and not be infectious to others." here is the link https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/returning-cruise-voyages.html

 

What is interesting is that Royal health protocols make no mention of how they handle recovered COVID passengers.... yet another poster noted that health protocols for sailings out of Singapore.. do note that passengers can test positive and for that reason they should not sail at this time...or words to that effect. Seems to me that similar policy should be in place for US sailings..or more situations where recently recovered will be kicked off for the positive tests that they will likely receive. Better that they are pissed off early than at the port.  Early in her video she specifically notes having had Covid within 3 months and that she had the antibody tests showing that she had high levels. Based on CDC info.. it should not have been a surprise that she tested positive..and this type of situation should have been planned for. BUT the CDC guideline for cruise lines makes no mention of this...only in guidance for travelers...unless I missed it.

The problem is that she failed to bring any documentation from a doctor that she truly had Covid prior to the cruise, something I believe Royal requested beforehand. None of this would have happened with onboard testing if she had been vaccinated. The proven vaccinated do not have to submit to onboard testing for cruises from the US, at this time. Most of my peers who previously had Covid have also  subsequently been vaccinated.

Edited July 20, 2021 by terrydtx

[bigwawao]

OK.

The CDC stuff is recommendation.  And let us look carefully.

 

" people can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after "    _ In most cases it seldom reaches 90 days which is the longest they kinda have found.  She had it in March.  By July she is past 90 days. 

 

She presented a (bogus???) Negative PCR.   Why bother to bring one if you are a recovering but persistent positive?  Bring a doctor's note!!

 

I have not seen any cruise line's policy on previously positive save for MSC which I am following closely  (I am anal in prepping for any trip I take).

 

MSC, about a month or so ago had 3 columns in their Health and Safety.  Vax,  Not vax,  Recovered with  90 days.  Yes they had this. The Recovered column requested a doctor's note.

About 2 weeks ago, I went back to read in detail ( remember, I'm anal).  Lo and behold.  The Recovered column was gone.

 

No line will bother with recovered but still positive.  I believe it is just too much of a headache to have a gazillion iterations of " Hey I had covid 92 days ago.  " What is the difference just 2 more days??? "

 

Besides,  a positive covid test on a cruiser is a red flag for the other cruisers,  persistent positivity or not.  I read up so much on Covid for personal safety reasons.  I am fully vaxxed and have S titer antibodies in the high range.  If I meet a cruiser who is positive (don't care if m.d. note says her viral cultures are negative and she had covid 12 years ago),  I will move away hide in a lifeboat. 

 

Cruise lines do not want that.   I believe that is one reason MSC removed their third column.

Cruise lines are a business to make money.  They won't make money if there is an outbreak.  So much more they will sink if someone gets really ill and/or die.

 

To wit,  they even not do not want mixed vaccines on their vaccinated guest!  To me this is a much much smaller issue than a persistent positive.  Why?  Because you really do not know if the person is a persistent (but recovered) positive,  faking it; actually infectious but have a fake doctor's note. etc.

And there are a few studies out there that mixed vaccines work.

 

I understand why for a cruise line if you are positive- sorry. No can cruise.

 

For my October cruise,  I am gonna get tested for my purpose.  If positive, I won't bother going as MSC test EVERYBODY- vax or unvax.   Should I go on a rant.  Of course!   There is my daughter's dog that I can scream at.....  :-)))

 

PS I have a cruise with RC in January.  By then I hope everything is moot and academic.

[kearney]

43 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

The problem is that she failed to bring any documentation from a doctor that she truly had Covid prior to the cruise, something I believe Royal requested beforehand. None of this would have happened with onboard testing if she had been vaccinated. The proven vaccinated do not have to submit to onboard testing for cruises from the US, at this time. Most of my peers who previously had Covid have also  subsequently been vaccinated.

I did not know that we are aware of what she presented to Royal... she did mention in the video that she had it 3 months ago and had tests showing antibodies...  so do we know that she did not present the required documentation? If so I apologize.  I did not see anything concerning recent Covid recovered not having to submit to testing in the health protocols... They may not want to get into minutia but perhaps a notation that if you are recovered and not vaccinated to contact Royal... perhaps have a special point of contact.

[bigwawao]

Not a problem her Kearny.  We are discussing this case and what it might mean for future cruisers.  I agree.  Had she contacted RC  she could either get a dispensation to cruise or a sorry.  But, IMO,  she tried to game the system.  

 

She gave NO proof whatsoever of her being positive and recovered, having antibodies. She said she tested 3x negative after coming back to NYC and gave interviews to the networks/press but gave no evidence.

 

The only closest evidence I could find was a screenshot of a negative PCR test for her in a youtube video.  The date was somewhat blurred but I was able to clear it up a tad to make the outlines of July 4, 2021.  Which would be her negative PCR test she would have presented to  RC.  

 

BTW which cruise was this on?  Which date?

[kearney]

10 minutes ago, bigwawao said:

OK.

The CDC stuff is recommendation.  And let us look carefully.

 

" people can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after "    _ In most cases it seldom reaches 90 days which is the longest they kinda have found.  She had it in March.  By July she is past 90 days. 

 

She presented a (bogus???) Negative PCR.   Why bother to bring one if you are a recovering but persistent positive?  Bring a doctor's note!!

 

I have not seen any cruise line's policy on previously positive save for MSC which I am following closely  (I am anal in prepping for any trip I take).

 

MSC, about a month or so ago had 3 columns in their Health and Safety.  Vax,  Not vax,  Recovered with  90 days.  Yes they had this. The Recovered column requested a doctor's note.

About 2 weeks ago, I went back to read in detail ( remember, I'm anal).  Lo and behold.  The Recovered column was gone.

 

No line will bother with recovered but still positive.  I believe it is just too much of a headache to have a gazillion iterations of " Hey I had covid 92 days ago.  " What is the difference just 2 more days??? "

 

Besides,  a positive covid test on a cruiser is a red flag for the other cruisers,  persistent positivity or not.  I read up so much on Covid for personal safety reasons.  I am fully vaxxed and have S titer antibodies in the high range.  If I meet a cruiser who is positive (don't care if m.d. note says her viral cultures are negative and she had covid 12 years ago),  I will move away hide in a lifeboat. 

 

Cruise lines do not want that.   I believe that is one reason MSC removed their third column.

Cruise lines are a business to make money.  They won't make money if there is an outbreak.  So much more they will sink if someone gets really ill and/or die.

 

To wit,  they even not do not want mixed vaccines on their vaccinated guest!  To me this is a much much smaller issue than a persistent positive.  Why?  Because you really do not know if the person is a persistent (but recovered) positive,  faking it; actually infectious but have a fake doctor's note. etc.

And there are a few studies out there that mixed vaccines work.

 

I understand why for a cruise line if you are positive- sorry. No can cruise.

 

For my October cruise,  I am gonna get tested for my purpose.  If positive, I won't bother going as MSC test EVERYBODY- vax or unvax.   Should I go on a rant.  Of course!   There is my daughter's dog that I can scream at.....  :-)))

 

PS I have a cruise with RC in January.  By then I hope everything is moot and academic.

Frankly, they should probably just state that if you are recovered, it is best that you not cruise for a while... same for those unfortunate with mixed or only one dose. And if they don't want to put that in the protocols..just tell people to call if they have one of those situations.... I don't know what this woman did or did not do... I do know that she did not help herself with her behavior and it makes it difficult to see her side... but I was surprised when someone pointed out the posibility that you could still test positive and wondered why anyone would get this far in the process. 

[D C]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

The problem is that she failed to bring any documentation from a doctor that she truly had Covid prior to the cruise, something I believe Royal requested beforehand. None of this would have happened with onboard testing if she had been vaccinated. The proven vaccinated do not have to submit to onboard testing for cruises from the US, at this time. Most of my peers who previously had Covid have also  subsequently been vaccinated.

Exactly. Get vaccinated, go on a cruise without needing to be tested.  Easy peasy.