Suite problem, trying to get corporate to listen?

[djh]

We just got off of the Summit and had a great time, but in our seven cruises since the restart, the service on this cruise was definitely the most inconsistent. Service was a bit uneven in areas but the biggest problem was with the suites. There were three butlers, yes three, to service the 50+ suites onboard. They normally have five, but we’re down two due to staffing shortages. Our butler was good but he had 18 suites, including several top level suites. There was absolutely no way he could provide the service that many suite guests expect. We met with Daniel, the guest relations director to voice our concerns. He took a lot of time visiting with us and was extremely responsive. They acknowledge they they have a severe staffing issue, especially with butlers on most the ships. When a butler goes down (or in this case has to depart on emergency compassionate leave) there is simply no other crew member to step into their role. My question to him was, is there any way to communicate to corporate that perhaps they shouldn’t fill the suites to capacity if they cannot provide the service expected in a suite? I know many are experiencing suites for the first time, thanks to move up bids and fccs, but are they going to continue to book them if they receive lackluster service? I understand that it’s a revenue thing, but in my opinion, someone should be looking a bit further down the road.  It was important to us to voice our concerns because I did not want to just do the post cruise survey where my comments might be misconstrued and there was no way I wanted it to come back as something negative against our butler because he and the other two were absolutely trying their hardest. FYI, Daniel also told us that those guest satisfaction surveys for the top tier suites go directly to VPs at Celebrity, which was good to know. 

[Arizona Wildcat]

Think you need to maybe be a bit more flexible when cruising today.  Understand your frustration, but while the suites were sold long ago and the butlers were in place.  2 butlers contracted covid.  Can you fault Celebrity fault for that?  Would it be better to tell 40% of the suite passengers their cruise was cancelled?  

We have one remai locally owned grocery.  In February they had a covid outbreak with over half their employees out.  2 local groups volunteered to assist in stocking shelves and bag groceries in order to keep the store operating.

[mom says]

57 minutes ago, djh said:

perhaps they shouldn’t fill the suites to capacity if they cannot provide the service expected in a suite? 

Stop and think about what you are suggesting. Do you think that "corporate" has some kind of crystal  ball  where they can see who may be sick or have an emergency one or two years into the future, when bookings are being made?  Or should "corporate" place extra butlers on board on the off chance that they might be needed? Do you think they have a pool of these just sitting around and waiting? Or should "corporate" just cancel a certain percentage of their suite passengers? Something tells me you haven't had to be responsible for staffing in your work life.

 

What you experienced is certainly not ideal, but my sympathies go to the staff. In your shoes I probably would have tried hard not to add to their burden unnecessarily. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by mom says

[miched]

What was it that you were lacking in? 
 

The things that a butler does for us can usually be handled by the room attendant or room service.   Anything else can be done by the host in the Retreat Lounge.

We get the same room service for breakfast when in AQ.   It is just someone else delivering it.  We had the Drinks Plus package in AQ and the cabin attendant kept it stocked for us. 
 

We didn’t need him to escort us to the theater or make restaurant reservations but I have seen passengers having the Luminae host or the Retreat lounge host doing it 

 

Staffing is a issue everywhere.    We just need to be patient and accept it.   It seems as if it is now common for every business to use it as an excuse but it is being done

 

We recently stayed in a Double Tree Hotel.   We were supposed to have a breakfast included.   It was a buffet instead of the usual restaurant style and very sparse.  Less than what would be at a lower cost hotel.  The next day was less just cold cereal, some rolls and pastries.  No juice, oatmeal or fruit.    Was told a supply and help issue.  We didn’t get any money refunded or anything else in compensation.   If it wasn’t included $15 was charged to you bill.  
 

It is frustrating but the new normal. 

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

 

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, mom says said:

Stop and think about what you are suggesting. Do you think that "corporate" has some kind of crystal  ball  where they can see who may be sick or have an emergency one or two years into the future, when bookings are being made?  Or should "corporate" place extra butlers on board on the off chance that they might be needed? Or should "corporate" just cancel a certain percentage of their suite passengers? Something tells me you haven't had to be responsible for staffing in your work life.

 

What you experienced is certainly not ideal, but my sympathies go to the staff. In your shoes I probably would have tried hard not to add to their burden unnecessarily. 

I have been responsible for very large groups of staff in my working life. In my experience customers expect and deserve to get the service they booked and paid for. Having a “crystal ball” with regard to workforce planning is par for the course for any professional manager surely? Not easy but absolutely part of the job.

 

If a company cannot provide the service they have advertised and indeed charged a significantly high premium for then it is for them to find a way to resolve the issue: it’s not for the customer to “try hard not to add to the burden unnecessarily”.

 

Stop and think about what you are suggesting. That guests should pay for a service which is not provided to them.
 

Where does that stop? At what point does that become generally unacceptable? 

 

 

[George C]

Service wasn’t a problem at all on our summit cruise a couple of months ago , concierge was great . Our butler and many others on the ship staff were Ukrainian.

 

[djh]

Perhaps I wasn’t making myself clear. I heard a couple of  passengers complaining “I spent $10,000 for my suite and I’m not getting the service I deserve, etc.”  That is not us. We are extremely flexible and go with the flow, made very few requests from the butler (personal retreat host)or suite attendant even though we were in a high level suite. I could see them struggling, forgetting things, generally overwhelmed and they are well trained not to show that.The problem I’m seeing is that they keep accepting move up bids to suites up until the day before, to give more passengers a taste of the suite life when they are obviously short of PRHs fleet wide. I’m not talking Covid issues, because that was not the case on our ship.

[djh]

6 minutes ago, George C said:

Service wasn’t a problem at all on our summit cruise a couple of months ago , concierge was great . Our butler and many others on the ship staff were Ukrainian.

 

Yes, one of the Ukrainian butlers had to take personal leave due to the conflict. 🙏 

[Eglesbrech]

5 minutes ago, djh said:

The problem I’m seeing is that they keep accepting move up bids to suites up until the day before, to give more passengers a taste of the suite life when they are obviously short of PRHs fleet wide

That is indeed potentially the issue. If you don’t have the staff to provide adequate service to full price paying guests then don’t accept last minute upgrade bids and dilute the service.

[Fouremco]

17 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I have been responsible for very large groups of staff in my working life. In my experience customers expect and deserve to get the service they booked and paid for. Having a “crystal ball” with regard to workforce planning is par for the course for any professional manager surely? Not easy but absolutely part of the job.

 

If a company cannot provide the service they have advertised and indeed charged a significantly high premium for then it is for them to find a way to resolve the issue: it’s not for the customer to “try hard not to add to the burden unnecessarily”.

 

Stop and think about what you are suggesting. That guests should pay for a service which is not provided to them.
 

Where does that stop? At what point does that become generally unacceptable? 

 

 

In normal times, I'd agree that workforce planning should be a reasonable expectation of any organization. But in these times, companies across North America are struggling to find resources.  This article published yesterday is just one of the many similar reports that I read daily: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/amtrak-seattle-vancouver-postponed-1.6453663

 

 

[Lastdance]

I can see both sides of the issue, as my DH and I just had this discussion yesterday.  I think the OP's point and her concern are valid.  Service and quality is a trademark of Celebrity.  Her point was that the crew were being stretched way too thin and more than the "new normal."   I totally understand the effects of Covid and how it relates to the supply chain issues, but there is a point where many cruisers are asking themselves what can be done about the service and quality of cruising with not only Celebrity, but other lines too.  There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with having a constructive and factual discussion about this from both sides, especially regarding suites.  That is the purpose of these boards.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Lastdance

[kathynorth]

1 hour ago, djh said:

They acknowledge they they have a severe staffing issue, especially with butlers on most the ships. When a butler goes down (or in this case has to depart on emergency compassionate leave) there is simply no other crew member to step into their role. My question to him was, is there any way to communicate to corporate that perhaps they shouldn’t fill the suites to capacity if they cannot provide the service expected in a suite? 

 

I agree, passengers should receive the level of service they've been promised and should not be surprised by an unexpected reduction in services. 18:1 when you expect 5:1 is not reasonable. Celebrity can't predict every potential situation, but we all understand we are experiencing a reduced work force combined with the challenges of quarantines and covid isolations. Celebrity can anticipate the need to reduce capacity in suites due to these situations. Many passengers have reported suites at full capacity while the rest of the ship was at 50%, 60%, etc. If the ships know they can't provide substitute coverage for suite butlers then they shouldn't be filling suites with move up bids. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by kathynorth

[gold1953]

Perhaps Celebrity should reduce prices for suites if they cannot offer the services

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, kathynorth said:

 

I agree, passengers should receive the level of service they've been promised and should be surprised by an unexpected reduction in services. 18:1 when you expect 5:1 is not reasonable. Celebrity can't predict every potential situation, but we all understand we are experiencing a reduced work force combined with the challenges of quarantines and covid isolations. Celebrity can anticipate the need to reduce capacity in suites due to these situations. Many passengers have reported suites at full capacity while the rest of the ship was at 50%, 60%, etc. If the ships know they can't provide substitute coverage for suite butlers then they shouldn't be filling suites with move up bids. 

I got absolutely shot down in flames last year when I pointed out that most of the ship was sailing at a vastly reduced capacity but the retreat areas, Luminae etc  were stuffed to full capacity.

 

Consequently those paying the most were actually in danger of having the least social distancing.

 

I agree that if the ships know that they just can’t provide adequate coverage then they should not accept any move up bids on suites (or any other grade).

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

I too am just off a B2B on the Summit.  I was in the PH on the first leg and had an awesome butler, Alex.  Granted, we do not ask much of the butler, but we did host a sailaway party.  I had told the shoreside concierge to alert the butler which she failed to do.  On several hour's advance notice, Alex produced a wonderful sailaway party for us.  He and our stateroom attendant took exceptional care of my suite mate who was experiencing a nasty reaction to an antibiotic she had been put on prior to the cruise.  I never received a post-cruise survey from Celebrity although I had sent notes to the hotel director specifically mentioning great performance by several of the staff.  Alex did admit that they were short staffed.  He performed admirably anyway.  His standard response to any question was, "I will make it happen."

 

The second cruise was a last-minute decision and allegedly no suites were available.  My two friends and I were in three different C1s.  Dinner in the MDR the first night was a disaster.  We waited 15 minutes to be seated even though we had reservations.  Once seated, we were ignored for half an hour.  The MDR is either grossly understaffed or staffed by newbies who haven't a clue what Celebrity service should be like.  One of my friends went to the Retreat Concierge after dinner and was upgraded to a SS which had somehow become available.  Two of us left to try the second night in the MDR thinking the previous evening was due to first-night jitters.  Wrong.  Second night was even worse.  After dinner, we went to talk to the world's greatest maitre d', Yuda, in Luminae.  He picked up his magic phone and somehow conjured another suite out of the ether.  That was it for magical SSs.  I remained in my C1 and was permitted to return to Luminae as a guest of my two friends.

 

I have no problem with the food in the MDR.  More often than not, when I'm dining in Luminae I order off the MDR menu.  The service on this cruise, however, was definitely not I've had previously in the MDR.  The service in Luminae was, as usual, impeccable.

 

I'd also like to call out the two servers in Bacio, Inna and Herma, who were literally running to keep up with the increased passenger load on the second cruise.  They even had officers helping them out.  In spite of the stress, they always addressed me by name, knew my cabin number and didn't need to ask, and started preparing my order as soon as I appeared.  Awesome service!

 

Now, here I am at home with no one to serve me coffee and almond croissants for breakfast, no one to cook and serve awesome meals and clean up after, and no one to make my bed and care for my laundry and dry cleaning.  Worst of all, I am expected to go to the grocery store and actually procure provisions.  Real life is hard!  I congratulate the mostly awesome Celebrity staff who made my cruises such an enjoyable experience.

[Silkroad]

2 minutes ago, kathynorth said:

 

Many passengers have reported suites at full capacity while the rest of the ship was at 50%, 60%, etc. If the ships know they can't provide substitute coverage for suite butlers then they shouldn't be filling suites with move up bids. 

I agree. In my experience both Suites and Aqua are kept filled with move up bids, which means Luminae, Blu and the the spa areas are packed. Also, restaurant staff are stretched even more thinly when Covid quarantine & isolation increases. This is not just because staff members are contact traced or test positive, but because the room service load increases.
 

On our 4/3 cruise on Equinox (in Aqua) we noticed restaurant staff disappearing and reappearing a day or two later. Several said they’d been asked to help with room service. On day 9, after having had 33 confirmed Covid cases amongst passengers, we were required to wear masks indoors except while eating or drinking. Staff had - mostly - been wearing masks throughout the cruise. Blu had at least two staff out due to Covid by the end of the cruise. I’ve heard from a fellow cruiser, who tested positive on day 11, that someone in medical told him we had over 100 cases aboard. 
 

Based on my experience in a suite last October (Edge) and in Aqua this April, I would say two things:

1. Expect Luminae and Blu to be busy, because even when the rest of the cabins aren’t full, suites and Aqua will be. 
 

2. Try to give the crew the benefit of the doubt when response times are slower than normal, or mistakes happen. On both my cruises, I saw crew members valiantly trying to cover gaps in addition to their regular duties. They have no control over corporate decisions.

 

[jelayne]

27 minutes ago, kathynorth said:

 

I agree, passengers should receive the level of service they've been promised and should not be surprised by an unexpected reduction in services. 18:1 when you expect 5:1 is not reasonable. 

I have never heard of or experienced a ratio of 5:1, it has more like 10-12:1 Even when we were lucky enough to have RSs the ratio was about 9-1.  

[phoenix_dream]

1 hour ago, Eglesbrech said:

I have been responsible for very large groups of staff in my working life. In my experience customers expect and deserve to get the service they booked and paid for. Having a “crystal ball” with regard to workforce planning is par for the course for any professional manager surely? Not easy but absolutely part of the job.

 

If a company cannot provide the service they have advertised and indeed charged a significantly high premium for then it is for them to find a way to resolve the issue: it’s not for the customer to “try hard not to add to the burden unnecessarily”.

 

Stop and think about what you are suggesting. That guests should pay for a service which is not provided to them.
 

Where does that stop? At what point does that become generally unacceptable? 

 

 

I am with you 100%.  The OP was very reasonable in his/her presentation of the issue at hand.  We all understand that in these days you must be flexible to a point.  But IMHO this goes beyond that.  In any employment situation there needs to be contingency plans.  Where is Celebrity's contingency plan for this?  They are charging very high prices for suites (especially lately) and are doing their best to book them at full capacity.  They need to have staff onboard that is trained to be back-ups for the hosts so that they can provide the service they advertised (or darn close to it). Come on, folks, it does not take a rocket scientist to provide the services of a host.  I'm sure there are plenty of intelligent staff onboard that could fill the role with some training.  They could utilize the regular suite staff as leaders, with other staff helping to fill the role.  

[lv2cruisgrl]

 I agree with the fact that if we are paying the price of a suite we should expect the service. However with the issue of covid and the fact they cant seem to employ enough staff, then we simply won't cruise. We have done 4 cruises in the past 6 months and they were great. However if our June cruise suffers because of staff issues we won't book anymore until they get things fixed.  There are plenty of other ways to travel. 

[NJ Gal]

Happy Cruiser 6143--thank you for your comments.  We will be on the Summit next Monday (May23) and in a suite.  Your comments are appreciated.  The last paragraph says in all.  

[kathynorth]

14 minutes ago, jelayne said:

I have never heard of or experienced a ratio of 5:1, it has more like 10-12:1 Even when we were lucky enough to have RSs the ratio was about 9-1.  

 

Oops, I misread the OP's post that read "they normally have five." 

[Definitas]

55 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I got absolutely shot down in flames last year when I pointed out that most of the ship was sailing at a vastly reduced capacity but the retreat areas, Luminae etc  were stuffed to full capacity.

 

Consequently those paying the most were actually in danger of having the least social distancing.

 

I agree that if the ships know that they just can’t provide adequate coverage then they should not accept any move up bids on suites (or any other grade).

Our last 2 suite experiences have been exactly as described, whereby the ship is at approximately 50% occupancy but the suites were all full. Clearly income is more important to Celebrity than passenger experience 

[Lastdance]

40 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

I too am just off a B2B on the Summit.  I was in the PH on the first leg and had an awesome butler, Alex.  Granted, we do not ask much of the butler, but we did host a sailaway party.  I had told the shoreside concierge to alert the butler which she failed to do.  On several hour's advance notice, Alex produced a wonderful sailaway party for us.  He and our stateroom attendant took exceptional care of my suite mate who was experiencing a nasty reaction to an antibiotic she had been put on prior to the cruise.  I never received a post-cruise survey from Celebrity although I had sent notes to the hotel director specifically mentioning great performance by several of the staff.  Alex did admit that they were short staffed.  He performed admirably anyway.  His standard response to any question was, "I will make it happen."

 

The second cruise was a last-minute decision and allegedly no suites were available.  My two friends and I were 

 

Now, here I am at home with no one to serve me coffee and almond croissants for breakfast, no one to cook and serve awesome meals and clean up after, and no one to make my bed and care for my laundry and dry cleaning.  Worst of all, I am expected to go to the grocery store and actually procure provisions.  Real life is hard!  I congratulate the mostly awesome Celebrity staff who made my cruises such an enjoyable experience.

Ahh, those warm almond croissants make any day special.  You definitely seized the day!   You also turned a negative into a positive with access to Luminae.  

Edited May 15, 2022 by Lastdance

[JeanieC,Aston]

Hi

How much would it cost them to have a ‘relief’ butler who would stand in for any unforeseen happenings,,,it could even work on a rota to give staff time ashore.

The .’relief’ could work up or down…every industry I’ve worked in with shift systems have a ’relief’ in the system.

If the ‘relief’ wasnt relieving he could fulfill other rolls like training new staff etc.

 

Its not rocket science.

[Algebralovr]

I know they have been struggling.  We were on Summit in December and met Daisy in the Retreat as the Retreat Concierge.  
 

We boarded Silhouette in February and found a note from the Retreat signed by Concierge Daisy….. hmmm same person?  When we actually got to the Retreat area, we found a different person was acting as Retreat Concierge and we were surprised.  
 

We asked, and learned it WAS the same Daisy… she had been transferred from Summit to Silhouette due to a shortage of staff, since Summit had had most of her winter cruises cancelled.  She was supposed to be concierge, however they had a shortage of Retreat Hosts and she was willing to slide over to Host and let someone else act as Concierge.  
 

The Retreat Concierge was trained to be Retreat Concierge, but was also  Concierge Class concierge as well as Captain’s Club host.  The new staffing is that there are supposed to be 2-3 people acting as Captain’s Club/Concerige host, and doing both jobs (Capt Club and Concierge) and a separate Concierge and manager for the Suites.  
 

Due to illnesses and such, the sailing on Silhouette ended up short one Retreat Host, even with Daisy  filling in (it would have been 2), they had only one Retreat Concierge instead of 2, and only 2 Captains Club/Concierge hosts instead of 3.  
 

 Plus, the Suite Manager was stuck with a shadow.  A guy was shadowing her for the entire cruise learning the job of a Suite Manager on Celebrity.  He was coming in directly from a hotel in the UK to be a Suite Manager on Celebrity, having never worked on a ship before.   I vocalized that someone coming in directly as a 3-Stripe officer having never worked on a ship seemed a bit of a disaster when there were experienced Suite Concierges who should have been given the opportunity  to be promoted having worked their way up.  I got a quiet nod from the celebrity staff at that comment.  They would NEVER actually say anything but you could tell…

 

Anyway, they are doing their best.  There are a number of the Luminae waiters who are studying for the job of Retreat Host, but it takes time for them to study and take the book tests, then shadow the existing Hosts while they are actually on rest time, etc.