Tipping

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, Kahawali said:

Thanks for all the comments. I should point out that I never said that I was planning to do this, but I do have the old-fashioned view that a tip should be given for good service and the amount should be decided by the giver. Yes, the culture is different in the UK and elsewhere in Europe as someone points out.
Once the discretion is removed from tipping,  the payment becomes a (another) service charge, which is a shame because the incentive to provide exceptional service is then lost - unless of course yet another layer of additional tips is given. (a third layer by my reckoning).

 

 

I think your original comments may have erroneously led us to think you wanted to drop the gratuities in order to make a long cruise more affordable.  

 

When we go on a cruise, we know we are expected to pay the daily grats.  When comparing cruise fares, we add the taxes, fees and daily gratuities to the published fare for a total cost.  I am from a tipping culture and to be honest will admit I am getting kind of tired of all the add-ons.  But, other than not liking the approach, which I fully understand, it is the way things are done and cultural differences really should not come into play.  

[MichiganFisherman]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I think your original comments may have erroneously led us to think you wanted to drop the gratuities in order to make a long cruise more affordable.  

That is the plan when they state that the cost of the tips on longer cruises makes it expensive and they ask if they can adjust it to zero. There is so other way to read what is obvious. 

[Coral]

On 11/21/2022 at 5:12 AM, Kahawali said:

 

 

The cost of tipping and wi-fi make a big difference to the cost of a longer cruise.

If you can't afford the tips, you can't afford the cruise. Tipping is how these employees get paid. Even if you disagree with how they get paid, it is a fact.

 

If you cruise on Princess - budget for tips. If you don't want to tip, plan a cruise which includes gratuities but you will pay a whole lot more!

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, MichiganFisherman said:

That is the plan when they state that the cost of the tips on longer cruises makes it expensive and they ask if they can adjust it to zero. There is so other way to read what is obvious. 

 

One would think so.     

[PrincessLuver]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

If you can't afford the tips, you can't afford the cruise. Tipping is how these employees get paid. Even if you disagree with how they get paid, it is a fact.

 

If you cruise on Princess - budget for tips. If you don't want to tip, plan a cruise which includes gratuities but you will pay a whole lot more!

 

What faulty logic.  There is no correlation if a person is given the choice to pay the Crew Appreciation charge or not and their wealth.  

 

Even Princess implies it is optional by stating "Appreciation is subject to adjustment, at your discretion, at any time during the cruise up to the time you settle your onboard account prior to disembarkation."

 

So people can try and tip shame all they want but it is still and individual choice that free people have the right to exercise if they choose.

 

There are no hard and fast rules in life or cruising as we have learned many times on CC.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by PrincessLuver

[cruzsnooze]

On 11/21/2022 at 3:12 AM, Kahawali said:

Pre-pandemic it was rather case that tipping (crew-appreciation) charges automatically added to accounts on a daily basis were discretionary - ie the amount could be changed as required or even, I believe, reduced to zero. Is this still the case?

 

it was also the case that “Elite” passengers received a free wi-fi allowance but this seems to have been withdrawn. I suppose passengers have to pay for the huge losses incurred by the industry during Covid.

 

The cost of tipping and wi-fi make a big difference to the cost of a longer cruise.

You can adjust the daily gratuity at guest services. I always reduce them to $10 PP PD which I believe is fair. The people included in the tip pool has expanded unreasonably to include entertainment and revenue crew. Apparently they expect the passengers to pay for their crew almost entirely.  Here's the statement from Princess web page

 

What is a Crew Appreciation?

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category: $14.50 per guests in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $15.50 per guest in Mini-Suite and Club Class, $16.50 per guests in Suites.

[Roberto256]

52 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. 

 

Wow, has that list of departments grown.  In the old days, it was housekeeping, dining, and (per purchase) bar.

 

Guest services, galley, onboard revenue !!!!   wow.

 

I'm assuming 'onboard revenue' is shoppies...

 

 

 

[2inTul]

1 hour ago, cruzsnooze said:

 Apparently they expect the passengers to pay for their crew almost entirely.  

 

 

This has to be the most naïve comment I've seen in a long time. Think about what you are saying. 🙄

 

Of course the passengers are paying ALL of the crew's salary.  

[Steelers36]

5 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

What faulty logic.  There is no correlation if a person is given the choice to pay the Crew Appreciation charge or not and their wealth.  

 

Even Princess implies it is optional by stating "Appreciation is subject to adjustment, at your discretion, at any time during the cruise up to the time you settle your onboard account prior to disembarkation."

 

So people can try and tip shame all they want but it is still and individual choice that free people have the right to exercise if they choose.

 

There are no hard and fast rules in life or cruising as we have learned many times on CC.

 

 

Technically, you are correct.  Princess does have a policy that guests on the Plus and Premier packages cannot remove Crew Incentive.  IMO, the Crew Incentive should become a compulsory fee like port taxes and NO guest should be able to remove it.  Only fair since many guests have no choice.

 

It would be nice if it was just baked into the fare, but I understand how they will want to show base fares without this amount added in so that they can advertise on a level field with what other lines are doing.  That said, what applies to many guests may as well apply to all. 

 

Beyond that, I would agree additional tipping is discretionary if a guest wishes to reward selected crew members.

[Over from NZ]

It's a nasty, shameful, technicality that allows you to effectively steal off the poorest people onboard. If you're not from the US - look at it this way. Instead of looking at your fare as being $1,800 and you're asked to pay $200 gratuities.. look at it this way. If your fare was say $2k and included everything.. you'd be happy. That's how we do things.  If it was $2k and itemised so that it showed that the bill was $2,000 including $200 for staff wages you'd still be happy. If it was itemised to show $1,800 cruise-fare and $200 staff wages and.. if unhappy you could negotiate on the $200 you'd still be happy. If they said you could negotiate on the $200 but the company won't wear it.. we'll take it straight off the wages of the people earning the least. You'd think that's a bit off.. but you'd still be happy. Yet.. you'll line up on DAY 1! and quote cultural nonsense.. "we don't do that tipping down under" type rubbish.. and rip the staff off. Just because you can. And the staff have to silently grin and bear it.. with no recourse at all. If your bosses did it to you.. you'd scream blue-murder. The problem is really.. that you can arbitrarily dock their wages without them allowed any say.. when really, your beef should be with the cruiseline. Be a bit fair. You're among the privelaged elite if you're able to take a cruise holiday.. even once. I hate the tipping culture.. but hey.. I'm not low enough to do that. 

[SantaFeFan]

2 hours ago, 2inTul said:

This has to be the most naïve comment I've seen in a long time. Think about what you are saying. 🙄

 

Of course the passengers are paying ALL of the crew's salary.  

 

Of course it's naïve. They are the type to reduce the grats even knowing how many people share it. They are the same type of person who will argue that the cruise line should pay the crew decent wages and to include the grats in the base fare, where they wouldn't be able to selfishly lower them for their own benefit. Whether the grats are paid as an additional cost or rolled up in the base fare, the passengers ALWAYS pay the crew's wages. Where do these people think those wages come from? The cruise fairy?

 

And a note to those naïve people - the passengers pay ALL THE EXPENSES to run a cruise line, including the original cost of the ships, the fuel to make them move, the captain and his staff to safely pilot the ships, the maintenance to keep them operating, the food for all the meals, the advertising to entice customers to book their cruises, the company management who make the decisions, and every other single item or service that is necessary to run a cruise line. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by SantaFeFan

[MelbTone]

Assuming that cruise line is 100% honest in distributing the money, one plus of crew appreciation is that if it's a really full cruise the crew members know they'll be getting a bit extra in their pay. 

[2inTul]

1 hour ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Of course it's naïve. They are the type to reduce the grats even knowing how many people share it. They are the same type of person who will argue that the cruise line should pay the crew decent wages and to include the grats in the base fare, where they wouldn't be able to selfishly lower them for their own benefit. Whether the grats are paid as an additional cost or rolled up in the base fare, the passengers ALWAYS pay the crew's wages. Where do these people think those wages come from? The cruise fairy?

 

And a note to those naïve people - the passengers pay ALL THE EXPENSES to run a cruise line, including the original cost of the ships, the fuel to make them move, the captain and his staff to safely pilot the ships, the maintenance to keep them operating, the food for all the meals, the advertising to entice customers to book their cruises, the company management who make the decisions, and every other single item or service that is necessary to run a cruise line. 

Thank you for expanding so eloquently on the point I was making. You have framed the issue perfectly.

 

Living in a market driven capitalist county I am continually astounded by how some people have no concept of how a businesses actually operate. There does seem to be a lot of magical thinking at play sometimes.  

[cr8tiv1]

Thanks to all the posters who continue to support the crew appreciation (tipping), especially the last few point on posts.  

 

I have a choice to go to Las Vegas or not.  And have chosen the not since many of the hotels now charge for parking (even when I am losing money in their slots) and have a "resort fee" that can not be removed, even though I do not use the pool or their internet.  

 

The same could apply to those who do not want to participate in the crew appreciation....

DON'T cruise.  

[Doug R.]

8 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

What faulty logic.  There is no correlation if a person is given the choice to pay the Crew Appreciation charge or not and their wealth.  

 

Even Princess implies it is optional by stating "Appreciation is subject to adjustment, at your discretion, at any time during the cruise up to the time you settle your onboard account prior to disembarkation."

 

So people can try and tip shame all they want but it is still and individual choice that free people have the right to exercise if they choose.

 

There are no hard and fast rules in life or cruising as we have learned many times on CC.

 

 

  I agree wholeheartedly! Everyone has the inalienable right to be a cheapskate:

5 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

You can adjust the daily gratuity at guest services. I always reduce them to $10 PP PD which I believe is fair. The people included in the tip pool has expanded unreasonably to include entertainment and revenue crew. Apparently they expect the passengers to pay for their crew almost entirely.  Here's the statement from Princess web page

 

What is a Crew Appreciation?

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category: $14.50 per guests in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $15.50 per guest in Mini-Suite and Club Class, $16.50 per guests in Suites.

 

[Princessfan20]

Some people sure get themselves twisted in knots over their precious morality.  The world is not going to always do what you want to have happen.  Just take a deep breath and relax a little.

 

People are not going to stop cruising because you tell them too and they are not going to stop having Auto Wages removed from their folios if they want too.  It is their prerogative to do what they want.

 

Much of the name calling on CC to those who disagree with the concept of tipping will not change any behaviors.  Princess allows people the choice so it is OK and that is the bottom line.  

 

Here is a tip.  If you are at certain levels in the Las Vegas casino/hotel rewards programs you do not pay Resort Fees.  There's always ways in life to avoid paying unnecessary or arbitrary fees.  

Hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving. 

[sabreline]

Gave a $20 to our two favorite bartenders and they were SO pleased! Gave $100 to your awesome stateroom steward and he was over the moon! Such a small price to make hard workers happy!

[Dar & Bob]

On 11/22/2022 at 5:25 PM, Astro Flyer said:

And that $10 comes from someone who posts she only sails in suites & minisuites while continuing to rationalize why she does it…cheap!!! 🙄
 

Wow, just wow - went back and looked at posts - and it really tells a whole lot!! As they say I judge people not by what they have but how they treat all people.  

[donaldsc]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:35 AM, cruzsnooze said:

You can adjust the daily gratuity at guest services. I always reduce them to $10 PP PD which I believe is fair. The people included in the tip pool has expanded unreasonably to include entertainment and revenue crew. Apparently they expect the passengers to pay for their crew almost entirely.  Here's the statement from Princess web page

 

What is a Crew Appreciation?

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category: $14.50 per guests in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $15.50 per guest in Mini-Suite and Club Class, $16.50 per guests in Suites.

 

Does that mean that you would be happy yo accept only $10 instead of $16 worth of service from the crew.  That is what should happen if you tip only $10.  What $6 worth of service are you willing to give up?

 

DON

[devonuk]

Whilst on the Sky Princess recently I got talking to my cabin steward about gratuities and she stated it mattered not to her whether Crew Appreciation was removed or not as she was now salaried so any extra tip left for her was a bonus on top of her salary. 🤷‍♂️

She also informed me that she did not know whether her cabin occupants had removed the Crew Appreciation or not. 

[caribill]

On 11/22/2022 at 4:58 PM, MelbTone said:

Assuming that cruise line is 100% honest in distributing the money, one plus of crew appreciation is that if it's a really full cruise the crew members know they'll be getting a bit extra in their pay. 

 

Now that crew appreciation is pooled across the entire fleet, not just to the crew on the ship you are on, one's daily crew appreciation amount is about one cent per crew member on your ship per day.

 

 

8 hours ago, sabreline said:

Gave a $20 to our two favorite bartenders and they were SO pleased! Gave $100 to your awesome stateroom steward and he was over the moon! Such a small price to make hard workers happy!

 

They are pleased because they get to keep 100% of what you gave them. For the cabin steward, significantly more than the 7 cents your daily crew appreciation for a week flows through to him/her.

[justafem]

It always amazes me that people are so worried about how others spend their money, they're willing to become online bullies, name calling, belittling and shaming.

 

Gratuities are optional on most lines.  Cruise lines know a certain percentage are going to remove those gratuities, while the majority will pay them.  

 

Gratuities are shared fleet-wide.  That means in markets such as Australia, where tips are not customarily given, those crew members also receive part of the tip pool.  

 

It used to be that if pax removed gratuities, cash tips were required to be handed in.  Since the change to fleet-wide, that's no longer the case.  All cash tips are kept by the person they were given to.  

 

Talk to the crew, they are a wealth of information.  If they are uncomfortable with a topic, they'll tell you.  

 

 

[Dar & Bob]

4 hours ago, justafem said:

It always amazes me that people are so worried about how others spend their money, they're willing to become online bullies, name calling, belittling and shaming.

 

Gratuities are optional on most lines.  Cruise lines know a certain percentage are going to remove those gratuities, while the majority will pay them.  

 

Gratuities are shared fleet-wide.  That means in markets such as Australia, where tips are not customarily given, those crew members also receive part of the tip pool.  

 

It used to be that if pax removed gratuities, cash tips were required to be handed in.  Since the change to fleet-wide, that's no longer the case.  All cash tips are kept by the person they were given to.  

 

Talk to the crew, they are a wealth of information.  If they are uncomfortable with a topic, they'll tell you.  

 

 

I still wouldn't remove the gratuities to us it is a cost of the cruise.  As someone mentioned earlier, many of the advocates of removing them state how they cruise in suites and what services are due to them which amazes me.  But we see it daily in this "me, me, me" world.  

We also tip the room steward and others that give great service.  I do wish Princess and all of the lines would just include this in the fare.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Dar & Bob

[ldubs]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:49 AM, PrincessLuver said:

 

What faulty logic.  There is no correlation if a person is given the choice to pay the Crew Appreciation charge or not and their wealth.  

 

Even Princess implies it is optional by stating "Appreciation is subject to adjustment, at your discretion, at any time during the cruise up to the time you settle your onboard account prior to disembarkation."

 

So people can try and tip shame all they want but it is still and individual choice that free people have the right to exercise if they choose.

 

There are no hard and fast rules in life or cruising as we have learned many times on CC.

 

 

 

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. Especially in this case where the "optional" component is likely related to corporate accounting needs.   There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the system.  I can find a lot of things conceptually wrong with it too, but if you are withholding grats because you don't agree with the concept, then you are wrong to do so.   Like it or not,  it is the compensation system and unless service is poor, the daily gratuity should be paid.  It really is a hard rule if one is following expected norms.  As far as shaming and peoples rights, I see this as kind of like social behavior rules.   Just because we can talk with our mouth full doesn't mean we should.   

[KarmaCruisers]

On 11/22/2022 at 3:28 PM, Over from NZ said:

And the staff have to silently grin and bear it.. with no recourse at all. If your bosses did it to you.. you'd scream blue-murder. 

No one has to “silently grin and bear it”..they’re not held hostage or indentured servitude are they??

same as me; I wouldn’t scream blue-murder, I’d just find other employment, simple as that.

if you can’t find other employment; well, that might be a *you* problem that you should try to fix first