Agree or Disagree?

[memoak]

13 minutes ago, polmcs said:

I’ve had a drinks package on all my cruises since they started offering them back in 2013, with the exception of 2 three day positioning cruises between Los Angeles and Vancouver (we were in a suite on those 2 cruises, so a few mimosas with breakfast, plus one more in a coffee sippy  cup to go, set the morning up right and the dual mini bar setups kept us going until dinner). Back in 2013, there was no 15 drinks limit and I’m pretty sure all our dinning table occupants easily breached that limit on NYE on that cruise! 🥳

 

I plan on retiring in the next year, or two and number 1 on the bucket list is a round the world cruise (so I’ve been paying attention to a few recent posts/blogs and in addition, I did a little research on the ‘23 and ‘24 sailings). The plus package for the ‘23 sailing was around $5500 pp and the ‘24 sailing is around $6600 as the cruise is 111days, so I’m looking at an increase of ~$2200 for two people. 
 

I was on the fence at $5500pp as the consensus is 3 drinks a day is break even on the package, but that means a minimum of 333 drinks on the cruise. Not sure my liver is up for the challenge, but even if I drink less, with a package, there are no nasty surprises at the end of the cruise.
 

$6600 pp is a bridge too far for me. I think I’ll opt for the standard fare, pay grats as I go, buy 1 four device internet package for the two of us (I’m elite, so get the 50% discount) and pay by the drink at the bar, plus augment that with the in-room mini bars (I’m assuming a refill for each of the 5 cruise segments that make up the RTW itinerary) and supplement with the corkage fee on a mixed case of my own wine as I embark in San Pedro. 
 

It also means I can return to one of my favorite cruise activities that I haven’t done since the packages came along and that is have a local beer freshly poured from the tap at a bar at each and every port of call along the way. 

Just remember that on a world cruise ports are few and far between. On sea seas you may miss those 8 or so cocktails 

[polmcs]

Just now, memoak said:

Just remember that on a world cruise ports are few and far between. On sea seas you may miss those 8 or so cocktails 

If I have 8 cocktails every sea day on a world cruise, then upon arrival back in San Pedro, I’m not leaving via the gangway, but rather out of the hole in the side of the ship on a fork lift, along with the rest of the “luggage” 😉

[Steelers36]

There have been several of threads on this topic over the past year or so.  First when Plus came out, and then when Premier came out, and again recently with the new price increases.

 

It's like the dress code threads - same old statements.  Either a guest consumes enough drinks to make the package worthwhile or they don't and it is an individual choice or option and it just takes a bit of thought and number analysis, understanding your spending habits on board. 

 

Although I consider the Crew Incentive and MedallionNet as "fixed costs", some guests are not at all interested in internet access and so they attach no value to that part of the package.  If you are all-in for both of these items as we are, then it just comes down to a drinks analysis and value proposition.

 

IDK if the OP is looking to see statistically what folks on CC tend to do.  For us, I might have considered the Plus option before at $40 is I wasn't bringing wine on board, but at the new pricing we will never book with the package.

[dog]

3 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

There have been several of threads on this topic over the past year or so.  First when Plus came out, and then when Premier came out, and again recently with the new price increases.

 

It's like the dress code threads - same old statements.  Either a guest consumes enough drinks to make the package worthwhile or they don't and it is an individual choice or option and it just takes a bit of thought and number analysis, understanding your spending habits on board. 

 

Although I consider the Crew Incentive and MedallionNet as "fixed costs", some guests are not at all interested in internet access and so they attach no value to that part of the package.  If you are all-in for both of these items as we are, then it just comes down to a drinks analysis and value proposition.

 

IDK if the OP is looking to see statistically what folks on CC tend to do.  For us, I might have considered the Plus option before at $40 is I wasn't bringing wine on board, but at the new pricing we will never book with the package.

AMEN!

 

We agree here!

[Ombud]

I'm a coffee / tea drinker not a wine drinker although I often have 1 glass a day. What makes the most sense for me personally is:

$16 daily gratuity

$7.50 per day wifi IF AND ONLY IF there's alot of sea days

$0 trade minibar for 2 Coffee [or Tea] Lovers pkg

$23.50 a day

 

$7.08 dz waters precruise

Carryon 1 bottle wine

 

Now if I had 2 glasses wine every day or get hundreds of OBC my answer might be different 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Ombud

[Roberto256]

14 hours ago, MissP22 said:

 

The volcano's are gone. 

Apparently renamed, and moved into one of the packages.

 

I tried the volcano once.   I guess if one's goal is to consume a large quantity of cheap ice cream, that is the way to go.

 

Now that it's gone, I can still eat this in the supermarket aisle with a spoon:

(an re-live being at a 6 year old's birthday party)

 

...or not.

[SargassoPirate]

13 hours ago, polmcs said:

If I have 8 cocktails every sea day on a world cruise, then upon arrival back in San Pedro, I’m not leaving via the gangway, but rather out of the hole in the side of the ship on a fork lift, along with the rest of the “luggage” 😉

I'd need the Betty Ford van to pick me up at the port!  A wee dram or three in the evening is the max for me and some evenings not even that much.

[srpilo]

14 hours ago, ldtr said:

If you look at hotel prices, especially resorts, they have gone up 50-60% or more compared to pre covid prices. 

 

In the case of the cruises lines the increases in the add ons amount to maybe 5 to 15% of total cruise spend depending upon room type of those buying the packages. So the actual increase clearly in line with inflation, but much less then competing travel businesses. Wait until the increases start hitting actual fares not just the add ons.

 

Be thankful this is Princess not NCL some of their packages are in excess of 120 per day with the service charge.

 

Yes that is so, but as the above poster tried to define the specific increases to the inflation rate, and a 50% increase in anything in the last 18 months can not be only attributed to inflation.

If you take another travel scenario "Airlines" they have also raised their fares in the 50% or more range also, but thats 50% on their upfront cost of the ticket where the consumer can make an informed decision before purchase, but by in large the airlines have left their add on "hidden" charges (seat upgrades, luggage, onboard meals/drinks, etc) alone or inline with actual inflation.

I personally prefer the Airline model which are more or less still pre-covid familiar with their classic historic pricing structure of market tolerance pricing, VS the new cruise line's strategy of nickel and dimeing and then blaming it on inflation after the fact to remain profitable

 

 

[malba2366]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:42 AM, dhdoug said:

Looking at new Princess packages and what’s included, fitness class, childish looking specialty desserts I am going to be inclined as a long time Princess supporter to just go with the standard package and pay as you go which seems like the best value without the needless and unused add ones. My guess is that alcohol consumption along with Princess package sales will decrease.

What do you think?

I would think that they are increasing  the menu prices of the drinks across the board as well (since the plus/premier packages have changed limits)...so the value proposition remains the same for people who are consuming 3-4+ drinks a day and using the internet package.  The other add ons are designed to entice non/light drinkers to buy this package, and Princess will make huge margins on those guests.

Edited January 21, 2023 by malba2366

[HaveDogWillTravel]

On 1/20/2023 at 3:17 PM, BamaVol said:

I feel like I spotted a grüner veltliner on a Princess bar menu, but it wasn’t Austrian.  Have you tried it?  And disliked it?  I will be disappointed if I cannot find a wine to enjoy with my seafood dinners in the MDR. 

It’s been on the menus but not available in the bars. I don’t order wine in MDR as I like to get in and out quickly and ordering drinks slows that down too much for me. So if they have it in the MDR I wouldn’t know. 

[JimmyVWine]

21 hours ago, ldtr said:

If you look at hotel prices, especially resorts, they have gone up 50-60% or more compared to pre covid prices.

 

7 hours ago, srpilo said:

If you take another travel scenario "Airlines" they have also raised their fares in the 50% or more range also,

I haven’t found either of these statements to be true. In fact, I just checked out of a brand name hotel in Midtown Manhattan near Times Square at a rate of $185 per night. No way was that room ever $130. And I have taken three post-Covid round trip flights from JFK to European cities and paid no more than 20% more than I would have predicted. Definitely not 50%-60% more. $600 round trip on AA or BA is to be expected. None of our flights were $900-$1,000. They were all $550-$700 per person.  That is what I was paying in 2018. Sure, I did score a cheap flight on Norwegian Air in 2019 for under $500. But my itinerary was roundabout, and that airline’s transcontinental division went belly up.  A 50%-60% inflation rate isn’t what I am seeing, and I travel (for business) a lot. 

[Ombud]

I haven't seen a huge rise in hotel prices but they've increased (I do land only trips as well). I have seen a bump up in flights. Used to be NS around 785 to Sydney AU (according to my screenshot reservations from 2018 & 2019) but right now I'm satisfied with 2006 and that isn't even NS!! What the heck is up with flight pricing??

Edited January 22, 2023 by Ombud

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

I haven’t found either of these statements to be true. In fact, I just checked out of a brand name hotel in Midtown Manhattan near Times Square at a rate of $185 per night. No way was that room ever $130. And I have taken three post-Covid round trip flights from JFK to European cities and paid no more than 20% more than I would have predicted. Definitely not 50%-60% more. $600 round trip on AA or BA is to be expected. None of our flights were $900-$1,000. They were all $550-$700 per person.  That is what I was paying in 2018. Sure, I did score a cheap flight on Norwegian Air in 2019 for under $500. But my itinerary was roundabout, and that airline’s transcontinental division went belly up.  A 50%-60% inflation rate isn’t what I am seeing, and I travel (for business) a lot. 

Too funny.  One can always find exceptions.  Most holiday inn expresses have not gone up 50 to 60% either.  On the other hand take a look at the resort hotels that would be the vacation competition to Cruising such as the all inclusive resorts in Cabo or Puerto Vallarta, or the Caribbean.  For that matter look at the Hilton Resorts on Maui or Oahu.  In 2019 used to book the Hilton in Waikaloa for around $300 to 350 per night  now the rate for the same time of year is in excess of $500.

 

Based upon this article of which there are many out there

 

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/hotels-and-resorts/hotel-prices-are-soaring-researchers-say.html

 

The real numbers may be even worse in many vacation spots.

Honolulu. Average hotel room costs jumped 252 percent, from $186 per night in 2019 to $654 in 2022.

 

New York City. Average in 2019, $228. Average this year, $743. That’s a 226 percent jump.

 

Other cities on the top 10 were Miami, Boston, Jersey City, Orlando, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Minneapolis, with increases ranging from 190 percent to 140 percent.

 

 

There are some cities that show drops, but the cities that are showing them are not exactly vacation competition to cruise lines.  Will see if I can find some data on some of the Caribbean Islands.

 

Business hotels are still somewhat restricted because business travel and meetings have not returned to pre-covid levels.  But cruise lines do not compete with business hotels, they compete with resort hotels and recreational travel continues to boom.

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

I haven’t found either of these statements to be true. In fact, I just checked out of a brand name hotel in Midtown Manhattan near Times Square at a rate of $185 per night. No way was that room ever $130. And I have taken three post-Covid round trip flights from JFK to European cities and paid no more than 20% more than I would have predicted. Definitely not 50%-60% more. $600 round trip on AA or BA is to be expected. None of our flights were $900-$1,000. They were all $550-$700 per person.  That is what I was paying in 2018. Sure, I did score a cheap flight on Norwegian Air in 2019 for under $500. But my itinerary was roundabout, and that airline’s transcontinental division went belly up.  A 50%-60% inflation rate isn’t what I am seeing, and I travel (for business) a lot. 

Now here is a report by US travel association that looks at all travel sectors.  Of course this report looks at all hotels, including those that are in sectors such as business focused hotels that have not recovered yet, even looking across everything, not just the vacation resort hotels that it shows an increase of 17% since 2019.   Resort properties are considerably higher.  Looking for a report that breaks out those as a category.

 

https://www.ustravel.org/sites/default/files/2023-01/tpi_dec-2022.pdf

 

 

Here is an article from last June, at that time the increases were already substantial compared to 2019 looking across their entire books of business. Remember last June there were still come Covid restrictions in place.  The cruise lines did not remove all of there until August/ September timeframe so travel was still building.  First quarter of last year was already 30% over 2019 and that was a year ago.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/11/why-marriott-hilton-and-hyatt-say-hotel-prices-are-only-going-up.html

 

Marriott CEO Tony Capuano said that over Memorial Day weekend the company’s revenue per available room, which measures hotel performance, was up about 25% in 2022 compared to 2019. In Marriott’s luxury portfolio, which includes hotels like JW Marriott, Ritz-Carlton, and St. Regis, those hotels saw nearly a 30% increase in rates in the first quarter of 2022 compared to 2019.

[caribill]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:59 PM, MissP22 said:

 

The volcano's are gone. 

 

Still sort of available, but now called a banana split and not as large as the volcano was.

[nbsjcruiser]

On 1/20/2023 at 12:42 PM, dhdoug said:

Looking at new Princess packages and what’s included, fitness class, childish looking specialty desserts I am going to be inclined as a long time Princess supporter to just go with the standard package and pay as you go which seems like the best value without the needless and unused add ones. My guess is that alcohol consumption along with Princess package sales will decrease.

What do you think?

Highly dependant on how much you drink and the cost of the packages. For example, on our upcoming cruise in February we have the package. When I did the math on how much I drink (2-3 per day) and how much my wife drinks (1-2 a day) it was feasible for us to take the base package. I think I figured that I'd pretty much break even considering tips are included. When I look at our fall cruise, the drink packages are much more expensive. Its much better for me to bring 2 bottles of wine on board and pay as I go. Its not even close really.

 

So, it varies

Edited January 22, 2023 by nbsjcruiser

[JimmyVWine]

9 hours ago, ldtr said:

Marriott CEO Tony Capuano said that over Memorial Day weekend the company’s revenue per available room, which measures hotel performance, was up about 25% in 2022 compared to 2019.

Seems about right. 17%-25% isn’t 50%-60%. But don’t confuse travel enthusiasm for inflation. Would-be travelers were kept on the shelf for the better part of two years and their travel budgets weren’t being depleted. As soon as they could get back out there they did, and price was no deterrent. This was especially true for resort areas. Price hikes were more the result of demand than economic inflation. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by JimmyVWine

[voljeep]

our pre-cruise Hilton Marina in Fort Lauderdale has gone up about 35% from Thanksgiving to next Halloween as of now.

[polmcs]

20 hours ago, malba2366 said:

I would think that they are increasing  the menu prices of the drinks across the board as well (since the plus/premier packages have changed limits)...so the value proposition remains the same for people who are consuming 3-4+ drinks a day and using the internet package.  The other add ons are designed to entice non/light drinkers to buy this package, and Princess will make huge margins on those guests.

Depends on what you are drinking. If your $12 cocktail is now $15, then the $10 a day increase at 3 drinks a day is moot (you’d be very slightly ahead on the. Package vs PAYG once the gratuity is added) but if you are drinking $6.25 beers and say that they go up to $7.25, then the math is not in your favor.

[Guest ldtr]

9 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

Seems about right. 17%-25% isn’t 50%-60%. But don’t confuse travel enthusiasm for inflation. Would-be travelers were kept on the shelf for the better part of two years and their travel budgets weren’t being depleted. As soon as they could get back out there they did, and price was no deterrent. This was especially true for resort areas. Price hikes were more the result of demand than economic inflation. 

Keep in mind that the 25% increases he was talking about was first quarter last year across all of their brans, the higher end resort brands was up 30%.  That was a year ago.  Q1 2022 was still heavily impacted by Covid restrictions which pretty much did not go away until Q3 of 2022.  Hotel rates have gone up substantially since then in the resort segment.  Will be interesting to see what Hilton and Marriot report for Q1 of 2023 but we will not see that data for a few months.

 

Try booking a beach front hotel in FLL the next time you cruise from that area,  Hilton Beachfront resort running about $800 per night in mid April prior to a TA, in 2018 got a room there in the same period for $350 (this was even with booking 6 months in advance).

 

I never said that the price hikes where the result of inflation.  Only that they were occurring and were real. 

 

The point is that cruise lines compete not only with other cruise lines, but also with land travel.  Historically they have been priced in a fairly close range relative to each other.  The cruise lines have kept prices fairly low as they got passengers used to cruising after the pandemic, while at the same time land based options have increased significantly (while to be blunt their services have been pretty bad) as a result the difference between cruise costs and land based vacation costs are now much wider than the historic norm.  That is the primary reason that the cruise lines feel that they have some pricing power at this time and are expecting to use it over the next year.  The price increases in add ons is just the first move in expected price increases.

Edited January 22, 2023 by ldtr

[nattie]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:42 AM, dhdoug said:

Looking at new Princess packages and what’s included, fitness class, childish looking specialty desserts I am going to be inclined as a long time Princess supporter to just go with the standard package and pay as you go which seems like the best value without the needless and unused add ones. My guess is that alcohol consumption along with Princess package sales will decrease.

What do you think?

I was considering doing that too, BUT ended up with Princes Plus, as it would be cheaper for us. My math was as follows:

Princess Plus - extra $840 for 7 days cruise for both of us

DH and mine daily drinks (5 each daily @ $10) =$700

Tips = $240 

Internet = cant remember what the price was, but at least $200 for 2 devices

For us Princess Plus is a no brainer

[suzyed]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:53 AM, voljeep said:

we currently have PLUS and are considering upgrading to PREMIER for our next cruise🤑

Why?

[suzyed]

On 1/20/2023 at 12:38 PM, Hlitner said:

To us it is relatively simple math.  Consider that the plus package covers tips ($17 a day), Internet and drinks.  Our normal habits generally include at least 3 (usually 4 or 5) cocktails plus wine (at some lunches) and or a few beers.  On sea days or port days when we often just stay on the ship there will be a morning Bloody Mary or Mimosa.  The package is a no-brainer.  We also get a fair amount of OBC, but a good portion is refundable (Princess usually sends us a check after the cruise) and we use the non-refundable for alternate dining and upgrading some of the drinks. 

 

 

Hank

Ditto!