Opinion about this situation. Dangerous?

[exm]

What's your opinion about this one? I grabbed this from a Facebook group and I blurred out the faces. It's basically a father holding his child on a MSC ship. She's sitting with her legs on the railing and he has his arms around her.

 

In my opinion this is not recommended, but overly dangerous? People are calling for having this person removed from the cruise, bringing up the example of the poor child that was dropped from the RC ship by a grandfather, etc. In my opinion this person deserves a firm talk from his wife "Don't do this!", but that's about it.

 

Thoughts?

[LHT28]

a firm talk  from security  or the Captain may have more impact on him than his wife

JMO

[GeezerCouple]

NO!  Just no!

 

Child endangerment.

And *anyone* who questions that (such as the knucklehead in the photo) needs to get more information about that grandfather and granddaughter... including what happened to her (obvious, alas) and also to him after the fact.

 

SHEESH.

 

GC

[BklynBoy8]

Should be kicked off ship.

 

What else wrong is going on with parents?

[Sea Hag]

I think this is very dangerous, and I also think that guy would try to sue the cruiseline if his child fell over while he was doing that. 

[navybankerteacher]

The captain's immediate first response should be to remove the idiot from the ship for his irresponsible and dangerous behavior -- with sufficient public comment to make it a teaching moment.

[GeezerCouple]

5 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The captain's immediate first response should be to remove the idiot from the ship for his irresponsible and dangerous behavior -- with sufficient public comment to make it a teaching moment.

 

Unfortunately, this behavior is also a "teaching moment"... for the apparently slightly older child next to them.

At a later time:  "Oh, Daddy lets us sit up there, so I'm going to get this chair so I can climb up..." [There is NOT an emoticon for my reaction to this!]

 

GC

Edited January 30, 2023 by GeezerCouple
typo

[BklynBoy8]

9 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Unfortunately, this behavior is also a "teaching moment"... for the apparently slightly older child next to them.

At a later time:  "Oh, Daddy lets us sit up there, so I'm going to get this chair so I can climb up..." [There is NOT an emoticon for my reaction to this!]

 

 

 

Walk the Plank w/o Blindfold!

[sparks1093]

I guess he never read any of the stories of the toddler who fell to the pier 11 decks below when she slipped out of her grandfather's hands.

[ontheweb]

Unfortunately, morons will be morons. And being a parent is probably the most important job in the world that comes with no licensing requirement.

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, exm said:

n my opinion this is not recommended, but overly dangerous? People are calling for having this person removed from the cruise, bringing up the example of the poor child that was dropped from the RC ship by a grandfather, etc. In my opinion this person deserves a firm talk from his wife "Don't do this!", but that's about it.

 

Thoughts?

 

They should be removed from the ship. So obvious. Kids move around and could easily slip from the parent. It certainly is dangerous. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Charles4515

[Mary229]

Dangerous and reportable.  

[mom says]

Not only removed from the ship and banned, but reported to Child Protective Services. 

[GeezerCouple]

2 hours ago, exm said:

What's your opinion about this one? I grabbed this from a Facebook group and I blurred out the faces. It's basically a father holding his child on a MSC ship. She's sitting with her legs on the railing and he has his arms around her.

 

In my opinion this is not recommended, but overly dangerous? People are calling for having this person removed from the cruise, bringing up the example of the poor child that was dropped from the RC ship by a grandfather, etc. In my opinion this person deserves a firm talk from his wife "Don't do this!", but that's about it.

 

Thoughts?

 

This should be "unmasked" and sent to NCL while there is time for them to get it to security.

They can probably ID the cabin from what is right below it.

(Make sure it IS identifiable so there's no claim it was some other cruise date or whatever claim might be tried.)

 

This MUST not continue, full stop.

GC

[Heidi13]

Clearly this is both stupid and dangerous, but does it warrant a forced disembarkation from the ship at the next port. If reported to the Master, s/he must follow the Cruise Line's Terms & Conditions, so without knowing them it is impossible to determine what consequences the Master may enact.

 

Unless sitting on a railing is specifically mentioned during the welcome aboard announcements during the Muster Drill, the Master will probably issue a stern warning, with the pax advised of the consequences of a repeat.

 

If sitting on a railing is specifically noted during the announcements, that can be construed as not following the legal orders of the Master, which may get you disembarked.

[shipgeeks]

IMO, I even wonder if families with children this young should even book balcony cabins.  Just too much risk of a child wandering out there and climbing up on a chair.

As to discipline for this case, I'm just not sure.

[GeezerCouple]

23 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

IMO, I even wonder if families with children this young should even book balcony cabins.  Just too much risk of a child wandering out there and climbing up on a chair.

As to discipline for this case, I'm just not sure.

 

Heh.

 

About 10 years ago, we took a cruise and brought 2 kids (one plus spouse) and an 18 month old grand.

 

We got an OS for the two of us, where we intended to spend lots of time together, which was the explicit point of the cruise.  We even had a Pack N Play in each place.

I felt really cheap not getting them a balcony, but... ESPECIALLY because I could not be there (to play Mother Hen or such), I got them an OV.  I did explain that *I* would not be able to relax worrying about what if he tried climbing on the balcony.  18 months is way too young to understand consequences, obviously.

The parents understood, and their cabin was used mostly for nighttime and naps.

 

I just could *not* see how I wouldn't be "imagining the worse" all the time.

Yes, I sometimes catastrophize, but if ever there was an invitation to do so, that was it!

 

We all had a wonderful and relaxing cruise, including us (me!).  🙂 

 

ETA:  Oh, and there are some balconies where the support bars are horizontal, making WONDERFUL... ladders. 😱

Fortunately, many are glass/plexi/etc., or VERTICAL bars...!

(I see this in homes, too, but I digress...)

 

GC

Edited January 30, 2023 by GeezerCouple

[navybankerteacher]

57 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Clearly this is both stupid and dangerous, but does it warrant a forced disembarkation from the ship at the next port. If reported to the Master, s/he must follow the Cruise Line's Terms & Conditions, so without knowing them it is impossible to determine what consequences the Master may enact.

 

Unless sitting on a railing is specifically mentioned during the welcome aboard announcements during the Muster Drill, the Master will probably issue a stern warning, with the pax advised of the consequences of a repeat.

 

If sitting on a railing is specifically noted during the announcements, that can be construed as not following the legal orders of the Master, which may get you disembarked.

It may not have been “specifically noted”, but neither is attempting to throw your wife overboard - which I think would fall into the category of “discretionary” actions which the Master is allowed (if not expected) to take in circumstances placing his/her passengers in mortal danger.

[sanger727]

I guess people have already forgotten about this

 

American toddler dies after fall from Royal Caribbean cruise ship | CNN

 

Yes! it is extremely dangerous.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

Clearly this is both stupid and dangerous, but does it warrant a forced disembarkation from the ship at the next port. If reported to the Master, s/he must follow the Cruise Line's Terms & Conditions, so without knowing them it is impossible to determine what consequences the Master may enact.

 

Unless sitting on a railing is specifically mentioned during the welcome aboard announcements during the Muster Drill, the Master will probably issue a stern warning, with the pax advised of the consequences of a repeat.

 

If sitting on a railing is specifically noted during the announcements, that can be construed as not following the legal orders of the Master, which may get you disembarked.

 

No master could possibly read off every reason someone could be disembarked. It is redicoulous that the master would have to specifically note sitting on the railing or any other dangerous activity.. I do get though that cruise line management might take that stance as a lot of busnesses and operate by a customer is always right mantra. So the dangerous person may in fact only be given a warning. 

[Blondilu]

There are risks everywhere, and you can't live afraid of every "what if".  A few years back a little girl was walking across the Golden Gate Bridge with her parents, tripped and fell and did that little rolly thing little kids do when they fall and try to get up and rolled right off the bridge.  It was a horrifying. 

 

No one could have ever imagined a thing like that happening.  But sitting your kid on a ship's railing just seems so obviously not a good idea.  At least, to me.  I mean, even in port the ship moves.

 

Question: if that were an adult standing or sitting on the railing wouldn't they remove them?  It seems I remember that actually happening.  There must be something in the small print (that I never read) stating you could be removed from the ship for doing things that are obviously or intentionally endangering yourself or someone else.

 

 

 

[wcook]

My opinion:

 

Oh for Pete’s sake people, she’s not dangling over the water. She’s a few feet off the ground. Let’s not overreact. 

[GeezerCouple]

10 minutes ago, wcook said:

My opinion:

 

Oh for Pete’s sake people, she’s not dangling over the water. She’s a few feet off the ground. Let’s not overreact. 

 

Is this some sort of joke??

 

She is certainly NOT "a few feet off the ground".

 

She is very clearly one deck above some awning over another deck, and chances are pretty good that the deck under the awning is still a few decks (not "feet") from the water.  They don't build ships with awnings that are right near the water line.  That's where, uh, portholes are (or even just solid metal), not balconies, walkways, or awnings.

 

And if the ship is in port, there's also a good chance there is a very hard dock right below (if she fell and bounced/slid off that awning), as was the case, I think, with the tragic lapse of a grandfather's judgment doing a similar little "careless" stunt.

Cement or water, that wouldn't end well for anyone...

 

Sadly, Darwin in action...

GC

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

It may not have been “specifically noted”, but neither is attempting to throw your wife overboard - which I think would fall into the category of “discretionary” actions which the Master is allowed (if not expected) to take in circumstances placing his/her passengers in mortal danger.

 

Unfortunately not a reasonable comparison, as the throwing overboard is an illegal act, which the Master will act upon. Sitting on a railing is an unsafe act, not an illegal act.  

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

No master could possibly read off every reason someone could be disembarked. It is redicoulous that the master would have to specifically note sitting on the railing or any other dangerous activity.. I do get though that cruise line management might take that stance as a lot of busnesses and operate by a customer is always right mantra. So the dangerous person may in fact only be given a warning. 

 

Correct, you cannot address every action during the welcome aboard talk. The sitting on a railing is a dangerous act, not an illegal act, so the Master would have to act accordingly, with any punishment being commensurate with the action.

 

I have experienced this a number of times, as the Master of a ship, issuing a stern warning. However, as I noted, if sitting on a railing was addressed during the welcome aboard, then it would be countermanding the order of the Master, which is an offense, which could result in removal from the ship.

 

As a Master, I certainly didn't make decisions based on business, but I am definitely from the old school of ship Masters.