After Reading Numerous Posts over the last Several Weeks, These are my thoughts

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I debated if to write this under two of the active threads on the Westerdam or just state my opinion seperately. I decided to do the latter.Below is just my personal thoughts and things that keep coming to mind as I have been reading many posts over the last several weeks. I have been closely following Westerdam since we will be sailing on her in September and loved following the Live From Japan thread by Hank.

 

I think we need to come to the realization that Holland America may be at a Cross Roads of Sinking or Cruising. I know that many HAL Loyalist like to look at the cruise line with Rose Colored Glasses but there are some facts coming out that one cannot deny. 

 

The Cut Backs are glaring especially on the 2 remaining R Class Ships and all of the Vista and Signature Class ships. Money seems to be going into the Pinnacle Class ships with a few exceptions of the oldest being the Koningsdam.

They are cutting corners on maintenance; supplies are not being delivered to ships. We are past the time of stating Supply Chain because this is not happening on any other major lines with the exception of Princess but not to the severity of HAL. Unknown if this is HAL just not ordering supplies or if vendors have cut them off for nonpayment.

Shortage of Crew is a major problem that does not seem to be a problem or at least near as severe on other lines, my guess is many crew have gone on to other cruise lines and or got out so not to have to work under the conditions they are now subject to. We have seen where other cruise lines are offering jobs at enticing bonus to get crew and many are jumping ship.

 

All of the above leads to low moral of crew, because passengers are not happy so they complain, in turn passengers complain so much that HAL has to give extra ship board credit or refund some services, but in turn the past guest most likely will not return. HAL has already started giving away lots of sailings dates that are post final payment that are not selling well as there are promotions for Mariners. 

An Interesting tidbit, comparing many Europe Cruises and even a few Alaska sailings to Princess most of the Princess categories are Wait Listed/Sold Out, those available are quite costly compared to comparable Holland America itinerary.

 

At this point HAL needs to make some major decisions. Start to fix the problems and put money into this, possibly with the help of CCL Corp. Happy Cruisers mean returning passengers which help to equal Happy Crew. Turn around would be they would not have to give away everything including dropping cruise fares, giving away Ship Board Credit to make passengers happy. This investment may take some time to reap rewards but may make it to not sink the ship. Or continue in the downward spiral of lack of provision from vendors, maintenance issues and give away free cabins to fill the ships. They have already dropped to a low in Land Side Customer Service with outsourcing that and reports continue to come in with continued reports of constant long lines at Customer Service Desk on board.. I have seen this since the restart yet did not see this on other cruise lines.  

 

From the restart they went into the mode of huge cutbacks which is very evident. Mostly noted is Entertainment and Dining. I would say at almost two years since restart they have got to see this is not working and need to make some changes. Or is it CCL Corp Plans to Sell off Holland America and at this point has no plan to invest more money to HAL.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I have 3 HAL cruises currently booked and have no plans to cancel, my September is already paid in full and December more than half paid off. But many of the things being spoke of I actually witnessed last July on the Rotterdam the Flag ship. I truly want to see a turn around for HAL but know I must cruise with lower expectations.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir PMP]

I have a feeling that it's too late for swimming.

[REOVA]

"You're trying hard not to show it (baby)

But baby, baby I know it...." 

 

HAL changed its entertainment contracts before the shutdown and they got stuck, not only in these contracts but with 40% drop in crew and entertainers coming back. The shutdown (or CC) tied their hands on spending but you can't generate a profit without revenue, which HAL assumed will always be there (hence the media frenzy on bookings being up). The Pinnacle ships are HAL's bread and butter (they thought) but they haven't been able to train the staff and managers on handling the size or amount of bottlenecks with the passengers. "Supply chain" means more than lack of supplies but in HALs case, lack of inventory management or the right vendors for the supplies. Hopefully the meeting with Gus and all of the CDs, EDs and HMs, etc will be effective to turn the ships/cruiseline around. But they are banking on their "longer itineraries" so they know they have to show up or be done. 

[BermudaBound2014]

All cruise lines are struggling to recover from an 18 month shuttering. No doubt about it. 

 

BUT, most analysists now rank CCL  below RCL and NCLH. In other words, most analysists believe that CCL is in the worst financial shape.

 

This is just Charles Schwab, but they give CCL a stock score of "F" failure. Worst possible. 99th percentile which basically means it's the bottom of the barrel. NCLH is also an "F" but they scored higher in valuation (not sure I agree with that). RCL managed to squeak out a "D" rating with a percentile rank of 87%.

 

Now, we all know that analysts are often wrong (and manipulate the market); but these scores should rise concern to even those most loyal. The debt numbers don't lie.

 

 

 

 

I have a 35 day cruise booked on HAL because HAL typically does a good job with long itineraries (and the price was right). BUT, my deposit is refundable and my expectations are low.

 

I'll be watching closely to see what info next two quarterly releases bring. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Florida_gal_50]

Agree with everything you’ve said.  Thanks for voicing your opinion.  I always enjoy your posts.

[Mary229]

Good post.  Thanks for sharing your opinion. 

[lissie]

I think one of the issues you are missing that the supply lines maybe working well in North America and Europe - but Westerdam was sailing Japan. Japan only  just opened up to to tourism.. China r reopened even later. Tourism hugely affects supply lines and crew availability - because airlines cut flights to near zero if tourism is shut down (trust me I lived through 2 years  of this in NZ - couriers from the US were taking months because of  the lack of air freight - the government had to subsidze planes just to bring in  pharmaceuticals  ) .

 

If there are no flights, you can't fly crew in/out. 

 

If there are no flights some of your supplies can't come - and even the sea freight may well be affected because its over-booked because of the lack of flights. 

 

Once NZ dropped most restrictions April 22 - it took a good 4-6 months for supply lines to get back to anything like normal.  It's taken until now for flight prices to get anything near normal. 

[lissie]

3 hours ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I have 3 HAL cruises currently booked and have no plans to cancel, my September is already paid in full and December more than half paid off. But many of the things being spoke of I actually witnessed last July on the Rotterdam the Flag ship. I truly want to see a turn around for HAL but know I must cruise with lower expectations.

 

I have a very different experience. I've not sailed HAL yet - booked on 25 days ex Boston in July.  Last year I sailed twice on  Cunard - same ship as we'd sailed pre-pandemic. We did 35 days in July/Aug and 20 days in October.  We'd previously sailed in Feb 20., We saw differences in July (repostiioning from West Coast to Europe) from 2019 -  we had compulsory mask wearing most of the cruise, most senior officers were invisible because they were' allowed to mix for obvious reason, the dance hosts had gone for obvious reasons. The food/drink was the same. In October (a repositioning from Europe to Australia), we had much less mask wearing but far more outages of drinks in the bars. Now compared to HAL Cunard has a huge range of alcohol on board so having to switch to a different gin and choose from 40 odd isn't the end of the world. And the stuff they were out of was obscure (like a port mixed with tonic in a bottle - interesting). 

 

Cunard is Carnival too.  

 

The reason we booked HAL wasn't because we now hate Cunard - but htey have limited itineraries - we heard about the VOV on the QE  and ended up booking the Boston return version. No other cruise line does that sort of loop at that price - unless you super-expensive expedition style trips which are not in our budget.  

 

We may or may not do the cruises I've booked in 2024  - and that has nothing to do with the cruise lines. Our insurance has gone through the roof. We have to have full insurance on cruise  ships to cover medical and evacuation insurance. My partner has had cardiac issues in the past . Last year the insurance was US$1800 for the 2 of us for 90 days, this year is US$3000 for the 2 of us for 60 days. The increase is ENTIRELY because of the increased insurance claims resulting from Covid on cruise ships. Last year we could choose an option without Covid cover, this year that wasn't an option.  If their rates don't go back to reasonable, we will be going back to land-based travel. 

 

We cruise to travel to places which are otherwise hard to get to (Panama, Suez Canal, Greenland) or expensive to get to (Maritimes, Iceland).  But the insurance will shut us down from cruising much faster than a missing entree option or a drink. 

[Boatdrill]

3 hours ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

 

The Cut Backs are glaring especially on the 2 remaining R Class Ships and all of the Vista and Signature Class ships. ... They are cutting corners on maintenance...

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of maintenance ? 

[Mary229]

They do not seem to be getting their footing.   I have had no major complaints.  I sailed a lot over the past year and was very tolerant of fails.  We are in a lull right now and won’t be sailing on any long cruises until next year.  One cruise is a DH bucket list and we will go.  Fortunately the second does not come up for final payment until I have completed that one.  I am a bit worried as I will be taking my sister on a short cruise this fall and with her limited time off I sure hope they don’t t mess things up.  She doesn’t care about entertainment so that helps.  

[OlsSalt]

Hard to know what to do with reviews written by those who have little good to say about HAL in the first place. I didn't even bother reading it.  

 

Getting fed and a bed while cruising to interesting locations, a clean ship and friendly service is as much as I ever look for when cruising. The rest may be deal killers and points of daily disappointment for others. But not everyone.

[Wakepatrol]

I always considered myself a HAL loyalist.

Then I went on the Celebrity Beyond this March and was wowed every step of the way.

 I went from sitting in the back row of HAL shows and leaving after 10 minutes , to securing a seat 
an hour before the shows started on the Beyond. The cabin was beautiful , the ship was jaw dropping and the entertainment was off the charts. I now feel like any ship after this is five steps down. 
 

I still like HAL and I missed having a little street cred and eating in the Tamarind for a reasonable price,

[grannyshell]

We're considering a Med. cruise in 2024 on Oosterdam. I've been reading reviews and quite frankly, I'm horrified. Food/beverages unavailable, toilets backing up, leaks, mold, broken thermostats that can't be fixed for the entire cruise, badly soiled soft goods, missed ports, chaos during embarking/disembarking. Review after review. I think we'll look elsewhere. 

[REOVA]

17 minutes ago, grannyshell said:

We're considering a Med. cruise in 2024 on Oosterdam. I've been reading reviews and quite frankly, I'm horrified. Food/beverages unavailable, toilets backing up, leaks, mold, broken thermostats that can't be fixed for the entire cruise, badly soiled soft goods, missed ports, chaos during embarking/disembarking. Review after review. I think we'll look elsewhere. 

The older ships will always have problems, but we like the smaller ships better than the bigger ones. On many of the Grand World Cruises the Amsterdam always had leaking pipes, buckets on the prominade deck, backed up toilets, constant painting/vanishing, etc. It didn't diminish the cruise as the itinerary and extra entertainment/talks (and passenger/crew "family") shown through. Missed ports are not cruise line specific. There will be hits and misses on every cruise. You will enjoy your Med cruise if you like HAL. 

[cruisemom42]

29 minutes ago, REOVA said:

The older ships will always have problems, but we like the smaller ships better than the bigger ones.

 

You don't hear of the smaller ships used by Oceania and Azamara having similar problems. I do not think the mass market lines put in the kind of maintenance needed on these older ships. 

 

When Oceania got one of the two small "Renaissance" ships that had belonged to Princess, it was reported that they were shocked at the state of the ship and had to put much more into her than they had anticipated to bring her up to snuff.

 

Older ships can be fine if they are well maintained -- but that means money spent and higher fares than the mass market lines can charge their passengers. 

[billbunger]

There is a core group of posters on this blog who are members of the “Perpetually Alarmed” club. 

[southamptoncruisers]

6 hours ago, grannyshell said:

We're considering a Med. cruise in 2024 on Oosterdam. I've been reading reviews and quite frankly, I'm horrified. Food/beverages unavailable, toilets backing up, leaks, mold, broken thermostats that can't be fixed for the entire cruise, badly soiled soft goods, missed ports, chaos during embarking/disembarking. Review after review. I think we'll look elsewhere. 

Where are these reviews? I'm on the Oosterdam this July and have been following CC for information, as we have never sailed HAL, I've not noticed anything to alarm me. 

[ski ww]

We had an excellent cruise on the Oosterdam in July, no complaints.  We have enjoyed all our cruises with HAL, we have tried other lines but always came back to HAL, we just felt comfortable on board. We did not know that things were this bad. Hope head office gets it's act together. 

[albingirl]

I appreciate reading reviews, but I am usually astonished by very negative ones. These are from people who continue to sail with HAL.  If they are that disappointed, maybe sailing on other lines would be better for them.  Oh, people here say that I should just scroll by, but it's kind of like a train wreck that you can't help seeing.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, ski ww said:

We had an excellent cruise on the Oosterdam in July, no complaints.  We have enjoyed all our cruises with HAL, we have tried other lines but always came back to HAL, we just felt comfortable on board. We did not know that things were this bad. Hope head office gets it's act together. 

 

Ditto.  Sailed on the O in November last.  It was not my favourite ship in the fleet before I got on but I sure changed my tune after I was on her.  Wonderful service in many areas of the ship.  The staff at the Sea View Bar were nothing short of phenomenal.  I did one heck of a lot of LUK’s on that cruise on my Navigator app.

 

Yes, some crew were new and learning but they were being shadowed, mentored to ensure good service still.  It was a wonderful cruise with engaging staff and officers and a Captain with a great sense of humour.

[Ipeeinthepools]

13 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

... I have a 35 day cruise booked on HAL because HAL typically does a good job with long itineraries (and the price was right). BUT, my deposit is refundable and my expectations are low.

 

 

But the good news is that you'll be sailing with me. 😀

[FlaMariner]

9 hours ago, grannyshell said:

We're considering a Med. cruise in 2024 on Oosterdam. I've been reading reviews and quite frankly, I'm horrified.

 

We were on the Oosterdam in March/April 2023 (South America 19 days) and loved the ship.  Awesome service, great food, friendly staff, lots of activities.....had no real issues other than the disappointment of having to dis-embark.  Oh, they did have a horseradish shortage on prime rib night...LOL.  Whatever.

 

We enjoyed the "elegant old lady" as the Captain referred to her so much that we booked her for the Mediterranean and a TA next year.

 

Many times when I am on cruise critic I think I cruise in an alternate universe...which may be true......We continue to enjoy HAL (got our 4 stars) and think cruising is better now than ever.

 

Enjoy the journey.......and the Oosterdam....or whatever 'dam ship.

[Meachjg1963]

1 hour ago, albingirl said:

I appreciate reading reviews, but I am usually astonished by very negative ones. These are from people who continue to sail with HAL.  If they are that disappointed, maybe sailing on other lines would be better for them.  Oh, people here say that I should just scroll by, but it's kind of like a train wreck that you can't help seeing.

I agree with you.

 

I was following along with some of the Grand World Voyage blogs/posts and early on one of the posters commented on how they’ve seen the changes, and general degradation of the HAL product/experience. They then immediately answered the question “why do we stay with HAL?” in the next paragraph. The answer was “cause we have too much invested with them.” They are Presidents Club level who spend boatloads of cash on HAL yearly. 
 

Until this level of customer walks with their cash to another cruise line, things will continue as is and probably degrade even further.

[Ellencruise]

I’m also booked on Oosterdam for Med. I loved it for SA this March. No complaints

[ski ww]

I think HAL should go back to what they were good at, stop trying to be everything to everyone. Why did people keep coming back to HAL year after year?? It was the service, staff, itineraries, the ships. Sell off or scrap some of the older ships, they can then spread out the staff from those to the other ships, in this way it would take care of one of the biggest complaints, shortage of staff. Also it costs less to run one bigger ship then two smaller ones. The biggest complaints seem to be shortage of staff, lack of maintenance & poor entertainment. I wonder if head office reads/ listens to what people are telling them on the post cruise surveys??