Teen "fell" from an Allure Central Park Balcony, unfortunately didn't survive

[mandyleighflies]

11 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Like I said enforcement of these things on Royal tends to be poor.

I'm not blaming Royal, I am blaming the parents or guardians who were supposed to be the responsible party for this child. 

[Sunshine3601]

50 minutes ago, mandyleighflies said:

My question as a parent of teenage children is simply where were his parents? The timing...it was late at night, past the ship set curfew for kids. I'm assuming alcohol was involved, we all knew how to get a drink or two at that age on vacation. However, at that time of night, you would think the parents would have been "home" also? I know I am lucky that my kids are not daring children, they tend to be mature and know right from wrong in situations such as these. I am guessing the parents were either still out, intoxicated and passed out, or staying in a separate part of the ship to not know what was happening. Each cabin is required to have someone 21+ staying in each cabin, where was the adult? 

 

Poor kid was basically left to their own devices and not equipped maturity wise to handle them. 

You are making a lot of assumptions.   I cannot see how any 16 yr old teenager would get alcohol onboard unless his parents had wine in their cabin. 

Also, it is easy enough for a teenager to go out on the balcony if parents are sleeping.   My DH sits on balcony when he has trouble sleeping and I rarely know he is out there and I am usually a lite sleeper.

 

Very sad for the family and last thing they need is online assumptions and rumors about the horrible event.

 

[mandyleighflies]

1 minute ago, Sunshine3601 said:

You are making a lot of assumptions.   I cannot see how any 16 yr old teenager would get alcohol onboard unless his parents had wine in their cabin. 

Also, it is easy enough for a teenager to go out on the balcony if parents are sleeping.   My DH sits on balcony when he has trouble sleeping and I rarely know he is out there and I am usually a lite sleeper.

 

Very sad for the family and last thing they need is online assumptions and rumors about the horrible event.

 

 

There are literally hundreds of videos of "how to sneak booze onto a cruise" and if there is a will there is a way. They could easily have made friends with someone older or was traveling with an older close in age relative who was buying and handing it to them. I will just say I grew up cruising and I saw it...all the time. 

 

I have never stayed in an interior balcony room but I can attest to how LOUD and DIFFICULT the outside balcony doors are to open. Sure, they might have slept through it. 

[BND]

Remember when the grandfather dropped the little girl and some people were so sympathetic to him until the facts came out?  There's still a few strange people who feel sorry for him even though the facts (and video) show him knowing exactly what he denied knowing.  Well, there's always more to the story.  Regardless, the ship is in no way responsible for people doing stupid things but as we've all seen, the warning labels on products have gotten ridiculous.  Like the meme I've seen stating that so many years ago a new car manual gave you instructions on how to change the oil and tune up your engine and today they tell you not to drink the coolant.  

[ATG]

8 minutes ago, mandyleighflies said:

 

There are literally hundreds of videos of "how to sneak booze onto a cruise" and if there is a will there is a way. They could easily have made friends with someone older or was traveling with an older close in age relative who was buying and handing it to them. I will just say I grew up cruising and I saw it...all the time. 

 

I have never stayed in an interior balcony room but I can attest to how LOUD and DIFFICULT the outside balcony doors are to open. Sure, they might have slept through it. 

At that age we generally got connecting cabins for our 2 sons and us.  I threatened them with permanent grounding if they left the cabin.  But I never thought to tell them not to climb out.  I’m lucky they were reasonable (at least most of the time).

[bonsai3s]

On 11/29/2023 at 7:47 AM, Mikew0805 said:

I was on this sailing. I heard the call for blood donations at 3am as I was walking from the casino back to the cabin. The family posted on our FB group, and thanked everyone that showed up to donate, but then also asked for privacy. Apparently TMZ and other news outlets contacted members of the FB group, to try to get information. 

 

Regardless of knowing that there had to be some bad choices being made by a 16 year old (it's not like 16 year olds are known for good choices) I feel so bad for this young man and his family.  

Slightly off topic...but regarding blood donation. On the Symphony earlier this week, the Captain announced a "Humanitarian" request for blood donation...18-55, male, O+, and a few other criterias.

 

The next day, in Labadee, we had a Medivac...helicopter landed on the pier at Labadee. We were all hoping for the best.

 

 

 

 

[lovesthebeach2]

44 minutes ago, mandyleighflies said:

I'm not blaming Royal, I am blaming the parents or guardians who were supposed to be the responsible party for this child. 

I really dislike the word “blame”.  No one is at fault (another word I dislike). The teen made a decision to do something that ended his life unfortunately. It’s very sad for him and his family.

 

[mandyleighflies]

I was just talking to my mom about this and she was an ER nurse for many years, her response? "There could have also been drugs involved" 

 

We will never know and can only make our own assumptions. I discussed this with my kids before school this morning (14 and 16, just a couple months from 15 and 17) and they both immediately said "no way" when I asked if they would ever climb the balcony. Once again, my kids...not someone else's. We talked about what to do if they were hanging out with kids who did these things and they both said they would leave immediately and come back to our cabin. They have an 11pm family set "cabin curfew" anyway but that was their responses. Interestingly enough, my daughter said she she see's kids her age (14) vaping in the bathroom at school and also said alcohol would be easy enough to get if she had interest in it. Once again, where there is a will there is a way. 

[Mum2Mercury]

17 hours ago, SAN415 said:

I consider my parents just about perfect. We were raised by strict but loving parents. There were 5 of us kids, and Mom and Dad both worked. Let me see if I can remember just some of the stupid things I have done. Most had no repercussions health wise - so did not result in them knowing ... 

You're right.  I could write a similar list of stupid things we did when my siblings and I were teens, and we also escaped our bad choices (mostly) repercussion-free.  We got hurt now and then; when we were caught, we were punished.  However, I KNEW -- even as I was in the middle of stupid things -- I KNEW that I could pay a very high price for my foolish choices.  Knew it and continued.  That kid knew too, but he got caught by his foolishness. 

16 hours ago, lovescats5 said:

My problem is...it is not Royal's fault this kid fell off a balcony ... And I am probably in the minority but at some point we need to be responsible for what happens to us or our family.

Totally agree.  The person responsible is the kid.  Taking responsibility isn't popular or common these days, but it's right.  

It's completely possible the parents were in the room and the kid was out on the balcony.  I know my kids have been out on the balcony reading or drawing while we've been in the cabin.  Who hasn't done that?  

16 hours ago, Thoenix said:

Again, we don't know the insurance situation, but the insurance companies involved may legitimately require a lawsuit to be filed before they'll pay out.  In my job, I work with a lot of families who've just lost a child and the legal framework for handling these sorts of things is really complex and messy and upsetting on every front.  It doesn't matter how responsible you want to be, very few families can handle the expenses of an unexpected death without tapping into insurance or other resources.  These things are very, very expensive.

That sounds like a sad job. 

Thinking logically ... the parents will have to transport his body back home ... then an unexpected funeral.  Will an autopsy be required?  

If they had travel insurance -- and none of us know -- would it take care of his transportation?  

12 hours ago, nelblu said:

If it's some sort of an internet challenge (e.g. Tik Tok) this may be a reason for lawyering up.

Do we have any evidence of a Stupid Challenge?  

Doesn't seem likely, as few kids would be in the right place to participate in a balcony climbing challenge.  

15 minutes ago, ATG said:

At that age we generally got connecting cabins for our 2 sons and us.  I threatened them with permanent grounding if they left the cabin.  But I never thought to tell them not to climb out.  I’m lucky they were reasonable (at least most of the time).

Yes, we've had connecting cabins with our kids, and (years ago) I wrote up what I thought was an iron-clad set of rules for them -- I think it was a pretty good set of rules, especially since I saw it repeated on this board multiple times!  But, no, I never thought to say, "Don't climb on the balcony".  Seems like common sense.  

[Mum2Mercury]

39 minutes ago, BND said:

Remember when the grandfather dropped the little girl and some people were so sympathetic to him until the facts came out?  There's still a few strange people who feel sorry for him even though the facts (and video) show him knowing exactly what he denied knowing.  Well, there's always more to the story ... 

Always more to the story.

Yes, every time I'm on a ship I see an open window, I think about that situation and think, "That man was crazy.  No way anyone didn't know the difference between an open window and glass."  

[mjkacmom]

37 minutes ago, ATG said:

At that age we generally got connecting cabins for our 2 sons and us.  I threatened them with permanent grounding if they left the cabin.  But I never thought to tell them not to climb out.  I’m lucky they were reasonable (at least most of the time).

We have 5 kids, we’d get a balcony and put 1 kid in it, and the other 4 in the connecting room. We were way closer than when they were in their bedrooms at home. If 1 of them was fooling around on the balcony, we wouldn’t know. Heck, at home if they decided to sneak out, we wouldn’t know. I’m a very risk adverse person, I tell my kids not to drive when it’s snowing or raining heavily, When my son goes hiking and kayaking alone, I ask for his location. However, once they’re teens, I’m not with the. 24/7. As a parent I did my very best, but they are their own people (now in their 20’s).

[mjkacmom]

10 minutes ago, mandyleighflies said:

I was just talking to my mom about this and she was an ER nurse for many years, her response? "There could have also been drugs involved" 

 

We will never know and can only make our own assumptions. I discussed this with my kids before school this morning (14 and 16, just a couple months from 15 and 17) and they both immediately said "no way" when I asked if they would ever climb the balcony. Once again, my kids...not someone else's. We talked about what to do if they were hanging out with kids who did these things and they both said they would leave immediately and come back to our cabin. They have an 11pm family set "cabin curfew" anyway but that was their responses. Interestingly enough, my daughter said she she see's kids her age (14) vaping in the bathroom at school and also said alcohol would be easy enough to get if she had interest in it. Once again, where there is a will there is a way. 

Lol of course she has, there is vaping in middle school bathrooms, alcohol use, sexual activities, it starts early. So many schools have locked bathrooms these days do to these issues. Heck I started smoking cigarettes in middle school (quit in my 20’s).

[Scottdalfonso]

14 minutes ago, mandyleighflies said:

I was just talking to my mom about this and she was an ER nurse for many years, her response? "There could have also been drugs involved" 

 

We will never know and can only make our own assumptions. I discussed this with my kids before school this morning (14 and 16, just a couple months from 15 and 17) and they both immediately said "no way" when I asked if they would ever climb the balcony. Once again, my kids...not someone else's. We talked about what to do if they were hanging out with kids who did these things and they both said they would leave immediately and come back to our cabin. They have an 11pm family set "cabin curfew" anyway but that was their responses. Interestingly enough, my daughter said she she see's kids her age (14) vaping in the bathroom at school and also said alcohol would be easy enough to get if she had interest in it. Once again, where there is a will there is a way. 

ORR...as most accounts seem to indicate, it was a 16 yr old being a 16 yr old and trying to do something dangerous, possibly for fun, possibly for social media. It never even crossed my mind that drugs or alcohol were involved...teens do stupid things for clout, and that's what this sounds like. 

[Mum2Mercury]

8 minutes ago, mandyleighflies said:

I was just talking to my mom about this and she was an ER nurse for many years, her response? "There could have also been drugs involved" 

 

We will never know and can only make our own assumptions. I discussed this with my kids before school this morning (14 and 16, just a couple months from 15 and 17) and they both immediately said "no way" when I asked if they would ever climb the balcony. Once again, my kids...not someone else's. We talked about what to do if they were hanging out with kids who did these things and they both said they would leave immediately and come back to our cabin. They have an 11pm family set "cabin curfew" anyway but that was their responses. Interestingly enough, my daughter said she she see's kids her age (14) vaping in the bathroom at school and also said alcohol would be easy enough to get if she had interest in it. Once again, where there is a will there is a way. 

Drugs or alcohol.  Both make people bulletproof, but drugs are smaller and easier to conceal.  

 

Not picking on your kids at all, but it's easy to say, "I wouldn't do ___ -- and really 100% to mean it! -- when Mom's asking you in the safety of your own kitchen."  It's harder when you're a teen and part of a group, and you don't want any social repercussions.  I was a good kid, but I have specific memories of "going along with the crowd" when I knew it was wrong AND didn't really want to do what was going on.  And I have memories of being an uncomfortable observer when I should've left.  

 

It's good to talk about these things ahead of time though.  Talking, setting your expectations gives them a bit of armor against participating in bad choices.  

 

About vaping:  Oh, yes, it's a real problem in school.  I used to know which of my students were smoking in the bathroom -- the products are larger, harder to conceal, and the smell was a dead-giveaway.  Vaping is much harder to police (you can even buy a hoodie with a vape built into the hood strings -- a kid could literally use that in class).  Our school nurse and my RN daughter are both soooo solidly against vaping.  They say it may even be worse (health-wise) than smoking.  I saw quite a few people vaping on our last cruise.  Weird habit.  

 

[mjkacmom]

As for getting alcohol, most ports have a drinking age of 18, plus many HS kids have fakes. My oldest were 19 and 20 on our last cruise, they went off of the ship with their new friends who bought booze in port and used rum runners.

[dcgrumpy]

2 hours ago, mandyleighflies said:

My question as a parent of teenage children is simply where were his parents? The timing...it was late at night, past the ship set curfew for kids. I'm assuming alcohol was involved, we all knew how to get a drink or two at that age on vacation. However, at that time of night, you would think the parents would have been "home" also? I know I am lucky that my kids are not daring children, they tend to be mature and know right from wrong in situations such as these. I am guessing the parents were either still out, intoxicated and passed out, or staying in a separate part of the ship to not know what was happening. Each cabin is required to have someone 21+ staying in each cabin, where was the adult? 

 

Poor kid was basically left to their own devices and not equipped maturity wise to handle them. 

 

It is not a requirement to have someone 21+ in each room. Kids  can be alone next door or directly across the hall. And even if they were in the same room the kid was on the balcony of the room, not roaming the ship. My teens were always in the room before curfew. But if they wanted to go out on the balcony they were allowed. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by dcgrumpy

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Drugs or alcohol.  Both make people bulletproof, but drugs are smaller and easier to conceal.

 

I'd add youth, to your two points I've put in bold above, to what make some bulletproof.  A very sad situation.

[alfaeric]

2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Like I said enforcement of these things on Royal tends to be poor.

How would they have stepped in to prevent a person from climbing?  Do they monitor every balcony and can rush in the moment someone starts climbing?

 

Enforcement normally means dumping them off at the next port and banning them from future cruising. 

[Ourusualbeach]

deleted, 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ourusualbeach

[smokeybandit]

The only way to "prevent" people from doing stupid things on balconies is to put cages on all balconies and make the ship look like an SPCA shelter.

[Tatka]

Why do cruises attract such a special attention?!?!

Balconies exist in various buildings in various resorts. Why cruises? 😞

 

My heart goes to the family of 16 years old... RIP.

[Scottdalfonso]

5 minutes ago, Tatka said:

Why do cruises attract such a special attention?!?!

Balconies exist in various buildings in various resorts. Why cruises? 😞

 

My heart goes to the family of 16 years old... RIP.

Because if you fall from a hotel balcony, that's it...they know the fate right away. They have a body, they can get medical attention right away if need... on a ship, you hit the water...it's hours of searching, MAYBE a rescue, an extraction, helicopters and other boats\ships are involved. It's a much bigger event all around when it's on a ship. Of course this time it was INSIDE the ship, but that's not the norm. 

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, Scottdalfonso said:

Because if you fall from a hotel balcony, that's it...they know the fate right away. They have a body, they can get medical attention right away if need... on a ship, you hit the water...it's hours of searching, MAYBE a rescue, an extraction, helicopters and other boats\ships are involved. It's a much bigger event all around when it's on a ship. Of course this time it was INSIDE the ship, but that's not the norm. 

The cruise industry has always been a massive target, regardless of the type of incident.

 

There are 2 types of people in the world.  Those that LOVE cruising, and those that think it is the absolute worse thing in the universe; no in between.

[Tatka]

Just now, Scottdalfonso said:

Because if you fall from a hotel balcony, that's it...they know the fate right away. They have a body, they can get medical attention right away if need... on a ship, you hit the water...it's hours of searching, MAYBE a rescue, an extraction, helicopters and other boats\ships are involved. It's a much bigger event all around when it's on a ship. Of course this time it was INSIDE the ship, but that's not the norm. 

 

As you said it was not really cruise specific.

This situation is no different from any other on land.

 

I also read that persons under 18 should not be alone on balcony. This is another strange suggestion really. All over the world people LIVE in condos with balconies and kids don't just fall from them!!!

 

[Tatka]

Just now, not-enough-cruising said:

The cruise industry has always been a massive target, regardless of the type of incident.

 

There are 2 types of people in the world.  Those that LOVE cruising, and those that think it is the absolute worse thing in the universe; no in between.

 

I so agree.

I constantly hear some weird things about cruises. Mostly from people who never cruised.

It is so unfair.