Formal attire WAS "required" in specialty Rest.

[mdmourges]

Do you really think they would not let you go into the restaurant if you were not dressed in formal attire? I, for one, would make them get nasty with me before I would leave.

 

Mark

[jayoldschool]

Just off the Connie yesterday. I can confirm that the dailies note that formal attire is required in all restaurants on formal night.

[pete_coach]

I agree that Wikipedia's definition of smart casual pretty much agrees with what normally appears in my mind. But when you say "There are other definitions of smart casual] but a jacket is not a required piece of clothing by any[/b] of them" you happen to be entirely wrong as the RCI website http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&pnav=5&snav=2&faqId=255&faqSubjectId=334&faqSubjectName=Life+Onboard&faqType=faq specifies [as far as they are concerned] that Smart Casual is Jackets and ties for men.

 

I may not agree with this definition, you might not agree with this definition, but it is RCI's definition.

 

Thom

Well, that seems to be a RCI requirement or, as they say, a "Suggested guidelines".

It seems to me that this Celebrity forum is forever discussing dress code. It must be the most contentious and talked about issue of the entire cruse line.

So much debate with so much passion, whew! :D

[fizzy1]

Did you even read this thread....

yes, just responding to quote

[Algebralovr]

Okay, I'm just throwing this out there. Feel free to flame away. Personally, I can't imagine heading out of town for more than an overnight or two without just throwing in a blazer. Usually, I wear it on the flight, and maybe never again. If I don't need it, eventually I stuff it in one of my bags, and iron it (or drop it off at the cleaners) when I get home. Seriously, we're not talking about a three piece suit or a formal gown. It takes up less space than a pair of pants.

 

Unless it's a camping trip or the like, I just see it as silly to leave home for more than a couple days without one. To me, it's part of being a grown male. Whether I plan on using it or not, part of being a man, or dare I say a gentleman, is being able to adapt. Who knows what's going to come up.

 

I'm totally understanding of not wanting to wear one. And I even get planning a trip so you don't have to. But at the end of the day, it's so much easier to just throw one in.

 

It is absolutely not part of being a grown male. DH and I consider ourselves to be professionals. DH doesn't even own a blazer. The last time the suit came out was for a funeral, and before that for a job interview. I believe that is twice I. The last 15 years. Most of our friends do not wear suits or jackets to work either. Yes, some do, or do in certain occasions, but not regularly. Many of our friends are engineers and only wear coat and tie for formal meetings. Frankly, it is dangerous for many engineers to wear a tie in many circumstances.

 

Celebrity is advertising heavily on sites and places frequented by 30-50 yr olds. Many of us do not wear coat & tie, and when on vacation don't want to dress up that much. We don't mind putting on slacks and nice shirt, but more? No thanks. My days off are spent in jeans and sweats. In fact, many of my peers wear jeans to the office on a regular basis. All depends on the schedule for the day.

 

I plan to print out the dress code FAQ for my next cruise and stick to it. We had already been thinking about doing specialitys for formal night so as not to carry along the dress clothes.

[dkjretired]

yes, just responding to quote

 

Who also did not read the thread...

[BrendaJ]

I don’t usually get involved in the dress code threads because my husband and I enjoy dressing up and would probably enjoy a tuxedo-type formal night every night if it was common. I must say we were able to pack very lightly for our two week Azamara cruises; however, it did pose a bit of a quandary when we were invited to the head table for dinner, as we really didn’t bring any clothes we would have normally considered head-table worthy. We managed to get by and the group photo those nights presented a wide range of men’s outfits, from dark suits, to jackets with golf shirts to khakis and Tommy Bahama shirts. Kind of funny. Certainly the cruise director we dined with was always beautifully dressed in long gowns, even though most passengers on Azamara dress smart casual every night, no matter where they are dining (as per the published dress code).

 

My husband swears that, if men find a coat and tie that unpleasant, then it may be because they are wearing the wrong size of shirt. He used to find ties uncomfortable until he realized he was wearing the wrong shirt collar size. Going up a size changed everything (although having a tight shirt around his neck didn’t prevent him from enjoying dressing up anyways, as during his work, he never got the chance to dress in a suit. The man looks fabulous in his tux and I’m very glad he enjoys dressing up for me.)

 

I do have to wonder where the final authority lies if the brochure and website say one thing, and the maitre d’ says another. If I were one of those who planned to dress to the lowest level allowable by the published dress code, I would probably bring a copy of the brochure or print-out from the website to try to fight my case. It seems there must be a shipboard attitude of “it’s my ship and I’ll set the rules regardless of the company’s published policy” if there are actually staff on the ship enforcing a dress code other than that published. I would think the cruise line head office would be very interested to find out that staff on board are making their own rules, and if they are offending passengers, that should be looked into.

 

I think the major problem with any dress code is that most wording is subject to interpretation. For example, Celebrity’s published Smart Casual definition: Gentlemen: Pants (no holes, rips or tears) with a sports shirt or sweater. Shirts must have sleeves.

 

There’s a big difference between extremely faded jeans with a rock-concert t-shirt and running shoes, and dress pants with dress shoes and dress shirt. At home, the former is not common in a restaurant with cloth tablecloths and napkins, candles and formally dressed waiters. I’ve never seen anyone at local restaurants turned away for wearing casual clothing, but most people dress well for a nice environment and special night out.

Celebrity’s published Formal definition: Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks.

 

Now, to me, that dress code is much more difficult to misinterpret. Wikipedia’s definition of a dinner jacket is a tux jacket, which means officially, sport coats do not even fit in the formal, published definition.

 

All that being said, most of the younger generation of men may not own a suit or sport coat (one of my staff actually told me he does not own even one pair of pants that is not jeans). The way these guys dress for an office would have been considered scandalous in earlier days. Even in the 80’s, I don’t recall anyone wearing jeans to work, and certainly never the shorts and flip flops I see these days. In order to stay competitive in today’s casual world, the cruise lines are going to have to be a little less formal in their requirements, if they want to attract a younger clientele. We old dinosaurs are going to die out, and to keep viable, cruise lines will have to allow just about any type of dress into the dining room to avoid alienating the casual crowd whose dollars they need to court.

Personally, I don’t care who wears what, as long as my shoes aren’t pinching my feet. :)

[hcat]

I have printed out the Specialty Restaurant Dress Code from the FAQ on the X website and will bring it with me on our Silhouette cruise next week as we don't plan on wearing formal wear Qsine or the Lawn Club on formal nights. I'm hoping we won't have a problem, but if it becomes too much of a hassle we'll just go to the buffet instead.

 

 

Formal wear at the Lawn Club would be out of place.. esp. for tossing pizzas....it gets windy up there & best to wear sneakers or deck shoes..just my opinion...sounds like a great alt for formal night for those not interested...

[dkjretired]

It seems to me that if they actually enforced this rule, it would be a bad business decision. People book the specialties on line and then they are told they can't go. If they enforced it, that would be quite a bit of money lost.

[jelayne]

Had same experience this month. When we went to book Murano for one of the formal night we happened to mention that we wanted to eat there so we could avoid formal attire for 1of the 3 formal nights. We were quickly and curtly advised that formal attire was required in all dining areas except the buffet. I mentioned that the Celebrity website stated that smart casual was the dress code for speciality restaurants & was told I was wrong & in order to dine there on formal night proper attire would be required. This wasn't a huge problem just had to have a tux shirt laundered as DH only brought 2.

 

Went to Murano on formal night properly attired, room was half empty entire time, service was terrible, food mediocre and while we were there they seated 3 couples with men in short sleeve shirts & one women in capri's:mad:

 

They did reduce the price of our meal by $16. Because of a undercooked appetizer.

[ghstudio]

Had same experience this month. When we went to book Murano for one of the formal night we happened to mention that we wanted to eat there so we could avoid formal attire for 1of the 3 formal nights. We were quickly and curtly advised that formal attire was required in all dining areas except the buffet. I mentioned that the Celebrity website stated that smart casual was the dress code for speciality restaurants & was told I was wrong & in order to dine there on formal night proper attire would be required. This wasn't a huge problem just had to have a tux shirt laundered as DH only brought 2.

 

Went to Murano on formal night properly attired, room was half empty entire time, service was terrible, food mediocre and while we were there they seated 3 couples with men in short sleeve shirts & one women in capri's:mad:

 

They did reduce the price of our meal by $16. Because of a undercooked appetizer.

 

Which ship? What cruise/when?

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

You are searching for a rational reason for an irrational decision by someone on board to change policy without any advanced notice.

 

Well put! Sounds like the gestapo captains club hostess who would not let people in to the social hour in sandals--on a Caribbean cruise where people bring nothing but sandals.

[cruise61]

We just returned from the 12/22 (Christmas) sailing on the Reflection and booked the specialty dining package to avoid formal dress. The specialty restaurants on Reflection do not require formal dress on formal night. The Lawn Club is VERY casual every night.

 

I expected to see a lot of formal dress about the ship on formal nights but it was extremely casual ship-wide--no shorts, but pretty much everything else --sundresses, blue jeans, etc.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone,

 

It makes sense that most of us are puzzled about what's going on. I know that I am ! :)

 

Add me to the list of those who feel it's not about whether formal nights are welcome or unwelcome. IMO, it's about being consistent with policies on ALL ships, as Celebrity's website states the following : http://www.celebritycruises.com/footer/faqResults.do?faqSubjectName=Dress+Code&faqId=2728&faqSubjectId=55

 

What is the dress code for the specialty restaurants?

 

The dress code in Celebrity's specialty dining restaurants, including Blu for AquaClass® guests, is "Smart Casual and Above" for every night of the cruise, regardless of the evening dress code in the main restaurant.

 

 

The above seems very clear to me.

 

My guess is, 1 or more onboard folks - perhaps a Hotel Director and/or Specialty Dining Manager(s) are fairly new, and are making things up as they go along. While it's possible that Celebrity has made a rule change - I highly doubt this is the case. If they had actually done so, wouldn't we be hearing similar reports from across their fleet ? That I can tell, we're only hearing about this situation on Constellation. I'd also expect a formal communication to Guests, alerting us of such a significant change. That has not happened either. Lastly, with the ever increasing baggage costs on flights, I cannot see Miami's corporate team making this change. That's why I strongly feel it's a Connie management issue.

 

While I am packing a suit for our next Constellation sailing, I'm also bringing a copy of what's stated on Celebrity's website, should any family members prefer to dress smart casual if we dine at Tuscan or Ocean Liners on the formal night.

 

I will inquire about this after New Years. Should I hear anything further, I will post on this thread.

 

Happy New Year !

[Jade13]

Hi Everyone,

 

It makes sense that most of us are puzzled about what's going on. I know that I am ! :)

 

Add me to the list of those who feel it's not about whether formal nights are welcome or unwelcome. IMO, it's about being consistent with policies on ALL ships, as Celebrity's website states the following : http://www.celebritycruises.com/footer/faqResults.do?faqSubjectName=Dress+Code&faqId=2728&faqSubjectId=55

 

 

 

The above seems very clear to me.

 

My guess is, 1 or more onboard folks - perhaps a Hotel Director and/or Specialty Dining Manager(s) are fairly new, and are making things up as they go along. While it's possible that Celebrity has made a rule change - I highly doubt this is the case. If they had actually done so, wouldn't we be hearing similar reports from across their fleet ? That I can tell, we're only hearing about this situation on Constellation. I'd also expect a formal communication to Guests, alerting us of such a significant change. That has not happened either. Lastly, with the ever increasing baggage costs on flights, I cannot see Miami's corporate team making this change. That's why I strongly feel it's a Connie management issue.

 

While I am packing a suit for our next Constellation sailing, I'm also bringing a copy of what's stated on Celebrity's website, should any family members prefer to dress smart casual if we dine at Tuscan or Ocean Liners on the formal night.

 

I will inquire about this after New Years. Should I hear anything further, I will post on this thread.

 

Happy New Year !

 

I am wondering if (possibly) this has something to do with the new CEO's direction (directive) of raising prices and trying to make Celebrity a more refined line (above Mass Market/Deluxe). I thought this was mentioned before (I know it has been on the Azamara board too) regarding the fact that the promotional materials on both lines always show passengers dressed up (not casual).

 

But I agree, this is not what is published. We did not bring formal wear on our Silhouette TA, although DH did pack a sports coat just in case there was an issue such as this. This sounds like a decision made onboard by the Hotel Director or Captains Club Hostess.

[Jenna109]

We have a five day cruise booked in February to the Caribbean on the Constellation. As it is a short cruise will we need formal wear? Really don't mind as we like formal evenings BUT this year we went on a Royal Caribbean cruise for seven nights and there were very few who even dressed for dinner. Many just wore shorts and casual tops.

Just returned from a short Azamara cruise and yes, many men wore suits every evening. Husband only took smart trousers and shirts - not really put of place but he would have liked his suits!

Will we ever get it right:eek: perhaps it would really help if the cruise lines make their 'what to wear' really clear and then stick to it!

[dkjretired]

We have a five day cruise booked in February to the Caribbean on the Constellation. As it is a short cruise will we need formal wear? Really don't mind as we like formal evenings BUT this year we went on a Royal Caribbean cruise for seven nights and there were very few who even dressed for dinner. Many just wore shorts and casual tops.

Just returned from a short Azamara cruise and yes, many men wore suits every evening. Husband only took smart trousers and shirts - not really put of place but he would have liked his suits!

Will we ever get it right:eek: perhaps it would really help if the cruise lines make their 'what to wear' really clear and then stick to it!

 

Unfortunately the cruise line does have very clear guidelines but apparently the crew on the Constellation either didn't get the memo or can't read the web site. Ultimately that is however the cruise lines fault.

[Cruise Junky]

I am wondering if (possibly) this has something to do with the new CEO's direction (directive) of raising prices and trying to make Celebrity a more refined line (above Mass Market/Deluxe). I thought this was mentioned before (I know it has been on the Azamara board too) regarding the fact that the promotional materials on both lines always show passengers dressed up (not casual).

 

But I agree, this is not what is published. We did not bring formal wear on our Silhouette TA, although DH did pack a sports coat just in case there was an issue such as this. This sounds like a decision made onboard by the Hotel Director or Captains Club Hostess.

 

 

"The ‘Modern Luxury’ branding will continue to convey that Celebrity offers everything upscale consumers want ‘without that old formality and pretense,’ as vp marketing Lisa Kauffman put it."

 

 

This was a recent quote in Seatrade....to me that sounded like formal wear was on its way out at Celebrity and they definitely weren't looking to go more formal. Just some of the ships didn't get the memo.

[phoenix_dream]

This thread is not about the dress code. This thread is about the website and published materials saying one thing, and the staff onboard deciding to change the rules without pre-boarding notice. This is inappropriate, can embarass and frustrate the paying customers, and is inconsistent from ship to ship. I think everyone who encounters this should contact Celebrity to express their displeasure.

[Jade13]

"The ‘Modern Luxury’ branding will continue to convey that Celebrity offers everything upscale consumers want ‘without that old formality and pretense,’ as vp marketing Lisa Kauffman put it."

 

 

This is the first I have heard Celebrity defined as a "luxury" line. I always thought they were mass market (although way above that based on our recent cruise on Silhouette).

[Cruise Junky]

This is the first I have heard Celebrity defined as a "luxury" line. I always thought they were mass market (although way above that based on our recent cruise on Silhouette).

 

I'm not sure I'd put them in the Luxury cruise line category, but their new branding is "Modern Luxury"

[phoenix_dream]

Luxury, modern luxury, mainstream - it really doesn't matter as respects the point of this thread. Celebrity, say what you mean and mean what you say. The end.:)

[Jimsgirl]

I am a dinosaur, I actually wear a pant suit when flying, or boarding, so I do think it very odd that :-

 

Anyone will pay $20-$40 per person to dine in a speciality dining room in order to dress in jeans and T shirts, shorts and flip flops or similar fashion.

 

There are many stores where for just one payment of that amount they could buy a jacket or an attractive dress, and have it to wear for more than one night or one cruise.

 

I can only assume it is not money but ego that drives these people. They actually want a confrontation, they want to be the centre of discussion.

 

They are like a 3 year old who when it cannot get its own way, lies kicking and screaming.

[phoenix_dream]

I am a dinosaur, I actually wear a pant suit when flying, or boarding, so I do think it very odd that :-

 

Anyone will pay $20-$40 per person to dine in a speciality dining room in order to dress in jeans and T shirts, shorts and flip flops or similar fashion.

 

There are many stores where for just one payment of that amount they could buy a jacket or an attractive dress, and have it to wear for more than one night or one cruise.

 

I can only assume it is not money but ego that drives these people. They actually want a confrontation, they want to be the centre of discussion.

 

They are like a 3 year old who when it cannot get its own way, lies kicking and screaming.

HUH???? Don't get your comments at all. No one dines in a specialty restaurant in t-shirts, shorts, or flip flops. And how in the world does ego or a desire for confrontation come into play?? Believe me, when my son and I showed up at the theater one night with him dressed according to published guidelines and he was turned away it was not a confrontation we wanted, nor expected. It was nothing but embarassing and frustrating. When one follows the published rules, one should not expect to be confronted. It has nothing to do with not getting ones own way. I honestly cannot figure out where you are coming from with these comments and how your conclusions were drawn.

[navyrotorhead]

Guess you are a fairly new cruiser, years ago if you didn't wear a jacket you didn't eat. Has nothing to do with anything, just a little historical perspective.

 

Years ago if you didn't wear a powdered wig you weren't a "gentleman" and "couldn't eat." (in places like the 'main dining room' where only "gentlemen" were allowed)

 

If you didn't wear a corset, petticoats and bustle you weren't a "lady" and "couldn't eat." (in places like the 'main dining room' where only "ladies" were allowed)

 

Ah yes, the "good old days" of class warfare, discrimination, and elitism. :rolleyes: