Are You a Specialty Restaurant Enthusiast Because of Poor Food Quality in the MDR?

[sverigecruiser]

For example, one of the great cruise fare equalizers is international airfare, which some premium/luxury lines include in their cabin price. Then start adding other included things like internet, specialty restaurants, beverages, alcohol and/or excursions. AND we haven't even begun to look at the better quality of food, service, etc.

 

I'm not sure how good it is with included airfare for people who don't need to fly to the cruise. Is it possible to choose airlines when airfare is included? If it's not I'm not interested.

 

Included excursions may be good if you are interested in the excursion, otherwise not so good.

 

I don't use internet on the cruise so I don't want it included. (The only exception is to be able to check in for our flight home but at least on NCL the concierge can help with that.)

 

I agree that better food quality and service is good but I really think that NCL and MSC are good enough.

[Pudgesmom]

I'm not sure how good it is with included airfare for people who don't need to fly to the cruise. Is it possible to choose airlines when airfare is included? If it's not I'm not interested.

 

Yes it is possible to choose airline and flight on lines which include it. Some we have used charge a small “deviation” fee.

 

Included excursions may be good if you are interested in the excursion, otherwise not so good.

 

Not all upscale lines include shore excursions. We like to go on own own, so we travel on one where they are not included.

 

I don't use internet on the cruise so I don't want it included. (The only exception is to be able to check in for our flight home but at least on NCL the concierge can help with that.)

 

Again, depends on the line.

 

I agree that better food quality and service is good but I really think that NCL and MSC are good enough.

 

And that’s exactly my point. For you, better quality food is a non issue. Why pay more when you already like it?We did not like the food much on the three mainstream lines we tried, so for us, it is one of several reasons we upgraded.

 

Once again, I believe some but not all! people might find they prefer something included rather than paying a la carte for better dining, alcohol, shore excursions or airfare. But they won’t know unless they do the math.

 

Flatbush flyer - yes, I have read your description of net daily rate several times. I’m describing it in another way.

 

Any numerical calculation leaves out some intangibles, which may or may not be important to any individual cruiser. We put a high value on lack of crowding and lines, smaller pax numbers, smaller ships able to enter smaller and less crowded ports, and particularly a much higher crew to passenger ratio. Each person has to decide how important and what the dollar value is to him or her.

[PTMary]

What you are referring to speaks to the "net daily rate" (where you take all required and desired optional costs PLUS the cabin cost and divide it by the number of cruise days).

Apparently, a lot of CC folks haven't thought about the value of included premium/luxury cruise items when they first see what they think is some "huge" fare compared to the upper end of the mass market. For example, one of the great cruise fare equalizers is international airfare, which some premium/luxury lines include in their cabin price. Then start adding other included things like internet, specialty restaurants, beverages, alcohol and/or excursions. AND we haven't even begun to look at the better quality of food, service, etc.

 

Maybe this business model if fine for you, but not for everyone. I don't drink, and my husband rarely has more than one or two drinks per day. So paying for included alcohol in the base fare is a total waste of money for us. We go on vacation to get away from our day to day routine at home, so we "unplug" when we travel, so having internet included in the base fare is a complete waste of money for us. We enjoy wandering around port cities more than taking excursions, so paying for included excursions in the base fare is not a value for us. My husband travels so much for business that we have many airline credits to use, so having airfare included is another waste of money. Plus, we happen to like large ships with the much higher level of variety in activities and places to spend time in, so smaller ships with little variety would get boring.

 

Bottom line, why pay for things we don't need or want? That alleged "advantage" is costing money that we will never get any value on. So thanks, but no thanks, we will stay with lines where we can choose what we want to pay for when we want those extra amenities.

 

And one thing that I have to wonder about - if the food is soooooo much better on Oceania, they why do they have specialty restaurants. They way you go on about the how fantastic the food is, isn't the need for specialty restaurants superfluous?

 

Once again, I believe some but not all! people might find they prefer something included rather than paying a la carte for better dining, alcohol, shore excursions or airfare.

 

I agree than only "some people" would rather pay for things they won't use. I believe that the majority of people prefer to pay only for what they use and not pay for what they don't want. Perhaps for people with plenty of money the idea of paying more than they need to pay is fine. But not everyone has that luxury.

Edited July 9, 2018 by PTMary

[Pudgesmom]

 

 

 

I agree than only "some people" would rather pay for things they won't use. I believe that the majority of people prefer to pay only for what they use and not pay for what they don't want. Perhaps for people with plenty of money the idea of paying more than they need to pay is fine. But not everyone has that luxury.

 

 

You have COMPLETELY missed the point, and seem to also have a bit of chip on your shoulder about upscale cruising. No, "some people" would not rather pay for things they won't use. No, we don't pay more than we need to pay.

 

EACH LINE HAS A DIFFERENT SET OF INCLUSIONS. That's why we chose the line we did. Here's what we get and don't get.

 

Airfare, alcohol and shore excursions are not included. GOOD FOR US.

Specialty dining and better overall dining are included. GOOD FOR US.

Smaller less crowded ships, much much better service, included soft drinks, specialty coffee and room service are included. GOOD FOR US.

 

We don't pay for what we don't want. Get it?

[PTMary]

You have COMPLETELY missed the point, and seem to also have a bit of chip on your shoulder about upscale cruising. No, "some people" would not rather pay for things they won't use. No, we don't pay more than we need to pay.

 

EACH LINE HAS A DIFFERENT SET OF INCLUSIONS. That's why we chose the line we did. Here's what we get and don't get.

 

Airfare, alcohol and shore excursions are not included. GOOD FOR US.

Specialty dining and better overall dining are included. GOOD FOR US.

Smaller less crowded ships, much much better service, included soft drinks, specialty coffee and room service are included. GOOD FOR US.

 

We don't pay for what we don't want. Get it?

 

No, I did not miss the point. BUT, I did get the point of you insulting me by accusing me of having "a chip on my shoulder". Evidently the low road is much easier to take for some people. :rolleyes:

 

Besides, my post was directed mostly at another poster, not so much at you. I didn't insult you. Not sure why you felt so defensive that you thought an insult would be an acceptable way to respond

[Flatbush Flyer]

I'm not sure how good it is with included airfare for people who don't need to fly to the cruise. Is it possible to choose airlines when airfare is included? If it's not I'm not interested.

 

 

 

Included excursions may be good if you are interested in the excursion, otherwise not so good.

 

 

 

I don't use internet on the cruise so I don't want it included. (The only exception is to be able to check in for our flight home but at least on NCL the concierge can help with that.)

 

 

 

I agree that better food quality and service is good but I really think that NCL and MSC are good enough.

 

 

In a sense, you are helping to make my point (and I'll also address some other related posts with this observation):

 

Some folks (not necessarily you) just don't get past the first thing they read (in an ad, post, etc). Perhaps they don't realize "The devil is in the detail."

 

Those lines with pricing that includes airfare most often offer the FLEXIBLE option of taking an air credit. That can mean $1,000-$2,000 savings in cases involving "included" international economy air (thousands more for any bizclass offers from luxury lines). And, yes, you can certainly choose your preferred airlines and/or dates/times with the understanding that you may be required to pay a deviation fee (still a bargain -even better if loyalty status drops the fee). We pretty much always take the credit and DIY with points/$$$ combo purchases.

 

As for "I don't drink/tour": Some cruise lines, including my preferred line, offer the option of OBC instead of alcohol and/or excursions. Thus, that OBC (hundreds to thousands) can be used to cover required gratuities, occasional onboard purchases, etc. or, in some cases reduce fares significantly via the option of "cruise only" pricing.

 

With the right choice of cruise line/itinerary (time/location) AND the FLEXIBILITY of taking the line's OBC/credits, those hundreds-to-thousands-$$$/person difference in a cabin price makes for a great "net cost" equalizer.

 

One other point on the finances: Some of those FLEXIBLE lines (e.g., Oceania's "O Life") also pay TA commissions on a sliding scale dependent on volume of sales. Top sellers may be easily identified because of their membership in a line's preferred partner "club." The most savvy of those TAs share commissions in the form of rebates or refundable OBC (more hundreds to thousands of dollars in ultimate price reduction). Also, some of those TAs belong to consortia that have relationships with the cruise line that results in things like free gratuities or additional dollar credits. And, a line's "preferred partner" TAs may further enjoy unpublished short term sales with reduced pricing.

 

But, then, why bother doing all that research/shopping if you could just book the initially cheaper line at the outset?

 

THE QUALITY QUOTIENT: what you get (and avoid) for your hard earned money.

Premium/luxury lines generally have food and service of far better quality (though there are even significant differences there depending on what the line stresses to maintain its reputation). Ships are smaller with far more favorable crew/passenger ratios. Cabin amenities (e.g., bedding, linens, toiletries) are first class. Tacky art shows, bothersome photographers, amusement parks, incessant PA announcements, etc. are non-existent. Smoking is highly restricted. Some lines even prohibit self-service in buffets (thus avoiding a major food safety concern). "Nickel-diming" is minimal. Do note that premium lines do have optional paid inclusions vs "all-inclusive" on premium lines. Thus, IMO, premium lines offer greater FLEXIBILITY.

 

All this said, which segment of the industry one chooses is still a personal choice. When we first started cruising, we did the mass market to "test the waters." When our GD is old enough to appreciate what cruises have to offer, we'll take her on a more kid-focused mass market line like Disney.

 

Today, we usually only do longer cruises of at least 3 weeks. Itinerary is important but so is the ship (since it is home for an extended period). Likewise, ambiance and food quality as well as a passenger demographic focused on well-traveled cosmopolitan folks are prime considerations. And, yes, we look for VALUE and FLEXIBILITY in cost considerations.

 

The bottom line remains "Do the homework." And the ultimate question is:

What/How will you get "more Bang for your buck" AND what does the Bang mean to you.

[Flatbush Flyer]

And one thing that I have to wonder about - if the food is soooooo much better on Oceania, they why do they have specialty restaurants. They way you go on about the how fantastic the food is, isn't the need for specialty restaurants superfluous?

 

Huh?

The GDR and Terrace Café on Oceania ships offer a truly broad menu (with little repetition over time) including varying features from the specialty restaurants. On the other hand, the specialty restaurants are just that- "specialty" - focused on a particular cuisine (I.e., French, Italian, Asian, traditional grill) so that there can be an expanded depth of offerings.

The quality of ingredients and efforts/outcome in preparation across all Oceania dining venues is equal. The only difference (beyond the focused depth of menu) involves the smaller, more intimate space, a dedicated kitchen with chefs who are particularly expert in that specialty and a wait staff that includes individuals with life experience/language skills associated with that particular restaurant's focus.

There's never an additional charge for an Oceania "specialty" restaurant (no matter how often you dine there). And folks don't eat in them to get better quality. Rather, they eat in them to have broader choices in a focused cuisine and a different setting.

[LHT28]

Maybe this business model if fine for you, but not for everyone. I don't drink, and my husband rarely has more than one or two drinks per day. So paying for included alcohol in the base fare is a total waste of money for us. We go on vacation to get away from our day to day routine at home, so we "unplug" when we travel, so having internet included in the base fare is a complete waste of money for us. We enjoy wandering around port cities more than taking excursions, so paying for included excursions in the base fare is not a value for us. My husband travels so much for business that we have many airline credits to use, so having airfare included is another waste of money. Plus, we happen to like large ships with the much higher level of variety in activities and places to spend time in, so smaller ships with little variety would get boring.

 

Bottom line, why pay for things we don't need or want? That alleged "advantage" is costing money that we will never get any value on. So thanks, but no thanks, we will stay with lines where we can choose what we want to pay for when we want those extra amenities.

 

And one thing that I have to wonder about - if the food is soooooo much better on Oceania, they why do they have specialty restaurants. They way you go on about the how fantastic the food is, isn't the need for specialty restaurants superfluous?

I will just add that Oceania does not include alcoholic beverages nor Excursions in their base fare

 

You can choose them as a perk on their Promo or you can choose to pay the cruise only fare & just pay for what you use

 

 

If you do not drink sodas, bottled water specialty coffees then yes the inclusions are too much to pay for Oceania cruise

 

 

They have specialty restaurants as a smaller venue with different food than the GDR or the Buffet

 

 

If you take out all the things you do not use on any cruise line you are still paying the cost for others in the cruise fare

 

Premium & luxury lines are about the intangibles that you cannot put a dollar value on

There is no 1 cruise line that will suit everyone

You have to choose the one that suits you best

Edited July 9, 2018 by LHT28

[Aquahound]

Ref the Oceania discussion....I'm sure its a fine cruise line. I do hope to try them soon. However, during my searches the past couple years, their prices have been significantly more expensive, like more than double lines like HAL and Celebrity....even with all costs considered. And as much as I'm willing to pull the trigger, I have a fiscal prudent DW who always throws out the stopper.

 

But to answer the OP's question, DW and I do find ourselves eating in specialty restaurants the majority of evenings. It isn't necessarily about food quality (except on NCL), but more for the ambiance. The MDR on all major lines seem to have gotten so loud and chaotic that it isn't a real nice experience for us anymore, unless we can get a table for 2 tucked away in a far corner somewhere.

[Pudgesmom]

No, I did not miss the point. BUT, I did get the point of you insulting me by accusing me of having "a chip on my shoulder". Evidently the low road is much easier to take for some people. :rolleyes:

 

Besides, my post was directed mostly at another poster, not so much at you. I didn't insult you. Not sure why you felt so defensive that you thought an insult would be an acceptable way to respond

 

 

Um, I replied to the the part where you quoted me?

 

And your passive-aggressive comments on how "some" don't care about what they pay extra for was - oh yes! - an insult, directed at people who pay more to travel on more expensive ships.

 

Here's a definition: The term passive-aggressive is defined as the "unassertive" expression of negative sentiments, feelings of anger, and resentfulness.

"Perhaps for people with plenty of money the idea of paying more than they need to pay is fine."

 

So yeah, after three of those sentences, I just assumed you have some sort of animosity towards people who travel on upscale lines.

 

[LHT28]

Ref the Oceania discussion....I'm sure its a fine cruise line. I do hope to try them soon. However, during my searches the past couple years, their prices have been significantly more expensive, like more than double lines like HAL and Celebrity....even with all costs considered. And as much as I'm willing to pull the trigger, I have a fiscal prudent DW who always throws out the stopper.

 

Yes they can be more expensive than HAL

If you compare the cruise without the included air & O Life perks

 

Then add in things that you would normally buy on HAL the gap closes a bit

 

You have to compare apples to apples

 

 

The only good thing on our 2 HAL cruises was the food arrived HOT to the GDR .. the taste well that is a different story

 

We are not foodies but do like quality ingredients

You have choose what works best for you but I would say give Oceania a try you might be surprised ;)

[Heidi13]

What you are referring to speaks to the "net daily rate" (where you take all required and desired optional costs PLUS the cabin cost and divide it by the number of cruise days).

Apparently, a lot of CC folks haven't thought about the value of included premium/luxury cruise items when they first see what they think is some "huge" fare compared to the upper end of the mass market. For example, one of the great cruise fare equalizers is international airfare, which some premium/luxury lines include in their cabin price. Then start adding other included things like internet, specialty restaurants, beverages, alcohol and/or excursions. AND we haven't even begun to look at the better quality of food, service, etc.

 

Our experience concurs with your post. We have already completed a WC with Princess in 2015 and have booked another with Viking in 2020.

 

While the Viking price gives serious sticker shock, as it is 50 to 70% more expensive (depending on exchange rates). However, when I add our complete additional spend, including airfares to the 2015 cruise to get an actual true daily cost, it will be very similar to my estimated true daily cost on the Viking Cruise.

 

When comparing cruise line prices you must factor in everything, comparing apples to apples.

[nobog]

Now... if they {insert any cruise line} could learn how to make a decent pizza - count me in !

[calliopecruiser]

 

Bottom line, why pay for things we don't need or want? That alleged "advantage" is costing money that we will never get any value on. So thanks, but no thanks, we will stay with lines where we can choose what we want to pay for when we want those extra amenities.

 

And one thing that I have to wonder about - if the food is soooooo much better on Oceania, they why do they have specialty restaurants. They way you go on about the how fantastic the food is, isn't the need for specialty restaurants superfluous?

 

 

 

I agree than only "some people" would rather pay for things they won't use. I believe that the majority of people prefer to pay only for what they use and not pay for what they don't want. Perhaps for people with plenty of money the idea of paying more than they need to pay is fine. But not everyone has that luxury.

 

You're missing a lot of what people pay for on luxury cruise lines that can't be counted in number of drinks or internet service........they aren't paying "more than they need", they're buying things that you don't value. And that's OK - different strokes for different folks - but you should at least recognize that those things exist and you've chosen not to purchase them. I'm not talking about included drinks or specialty dining, I'm talking about more space, better service, fewer crowds, and less sales pressure. I barely drink, but I love paying for a luxury cruise that includes alcohol, not because I want to pay for drinks I don't consume, but because I want all the other things that come along with it (including the need not to think about charging things to my room -- I find a mental freedom in an inclusive environment).

 

 

As for better food and specialty restaurants, I just don't understand your thinking........a specialty restaurant offers something special above and beyond what they consider standard. If the standard is great food, it will have to offer really great food to be special, or maybe it will offer great food but in a more special environment, or with more special service, etc.

 

 

Yes, it does sound like you've got a big chip on your shoulder.

[Aquahound]

You have choose what works best for you but I would say give Oceania a try you might be surprised ;)

 

Oh, I do plan on it. Oceania, Viking Ocean, Azamara...they're all on my to-do list. And yes, I do get what you mean by the apples to apples comparison. Right off the bat, Oceania isn't apples to apples w/ any mass market line because of their higher category. I just need to convince DW to spend the money. ;)

[PTMary]

You're missing a lot of what people pay for on luxury cruise lines that can't be counted in number of drinks or internet service........they aren't paying "more than they need", they're buying things that you don't value. And that's OK - different strokes for different folks - but you should at least recognize that those things exist and you've chosen not to purchase them. I'm not talking about included drinks or specialty dining, I'm talking about more space, better service, fewer crowds, and less sales pressure. I barely drink, but I love paying for a luxury cruise that includes alcohol, not because I want to pay for drinks I don't consume, but because I want all the other things that come along with it (including the need not to think about charging things to my room -- I find a mental freedom in an inclusive environment).

 

 

As for better food and specialty restaurants, I just don't understand your thinking........a specialty restaurant offers something special above and beyond what they consider standard. If the standard is great food, it will have to offer really great food to be special, or maybe it will offer great food but in a more special environment, or with more special service, etc.

 

 

Yes, it does sound like you've got a big chip on your shoulder.

 

I find it amazing, and somewhat comical, how the fans of luxury cruise lines can't discuss the pros and cons of their preferred cruise lines without insulting people who think their favorite lines are too expensive for our budgets. Is that a common trait of the wealthy, to denigrate people who are less fortunate than yourselves? ;p

[calliopecruiser]

I find it amazing, and somewhat comical, how the fans of luxury cruise lines can't discuss the pros and cons of their preferred cruise lines without insulting people who think their favorite lines are too expensive for our budgets. Is that a common trait of the wealthy, to denigrate people who are less fortunate than yourselves? ;p

 

Oh, I'm not denigrating anyone, I'm commenting on how those posts make you sound.

 

 

That's two totally different things. I don't know you (let alone other people here), so I can only comment on the image of you that your posts create.

 

If you want to discuss the pros and cons of Crystal, I'm game.

[lenquixote66]

Interesting - but hardly a stand alone qualification to discuss dining options. Your point being...?

 

No point other than to say I have never eaten either of those and therefore it would not be something I would be ordering on a cruise .

[Hlitner]

I find it amazing, and somewhat comical, how the fans of luxury cruise lines can't discuss the pros and cons of their preferred cruise lines without insulting people who think their favorite lines are too expensive for our budgets. Is that a common trait of the wealthy, to denigrate people who are less fortunate than yourselves? ;p

 

We do hear what you are saying with regard to some cruise snobs. As one who has cruised on 14 lines, mostly mass market mixed with a few luxury lines we think you are wrong. Our own experience is that when on the luxury lines (such as Crystal) we have found our fellow passengers to be friendly, outgoing, and interesting. And it has generally been the same when we have cruised on RCI, Celebrity, Carnival, HAL, etc. The reality is that what you call the "wealthy" are generally some of the most generous gracious folks you will ever meet. And I say that being a middle class retired government worker :). Most of the truly wealthy we have met have little to prove and generally play down their wealth. We have dined with a Billionaire, millionaires, and some notable folks and always found them wonderful tablemates. The fact that they would even dine with us, and remain our friends says a lot about our friends. Our conversations generally have revolved around travel, cruising, economics (my personal passion), etc.

 

My only advice is to not put folks into some kind of box because of their economic situation or success. One reason that DW and I have been long addicted to travel and cruising is because of our experience meeting folks who are totally different from us and our way of life. Its why we always ask the Maitre'd to put us at a large table where we can meet and socialize with other cruisers. To the extent that we have gotten to know some cruise snobs, we generally find that they are often an unhappy lot who get their kicks out of trying to impress others. In most cases they are social climber "wannabees" who generally do not succeed at impressing anyone.

 

When you generalize about the wealthy it really says more about you then them :).

 

Hank

Edited July 10, 2018 by Hlitner

[LHT28]

Oh, I do plan on it. Oceania, Viking Ocean, Azamara...they're all on my to-do list. And yes, I do get what you mean by the apples to apples comparison. Right off the bat, Oceania isn't apples to apples w/ any mass market line because of their higher category. I just need to convince DW to spend the money. ;)

Good Luck :halo:

[LHT28]

I find it amazing, and somewhat comical, how the fans of luxury cruise lines can't discuss the pros and cons of their preferred cruise lines without insulting people who think their favorite lines are too expensive for our budgets. Is that a common trait of the wealthy, to denigrate people who are less fortunate than yourselves? ;p

How do you know people are wealthy ?

 

You know nothing about people here

 

That it such a judgemental brush you paint with

[Texas Tillie]

How do you know people are wealthy ?

 

You know nothing about people here

 

That it such a judgemental brush you paint with

 

Agree 1000%. Since we are painting with a judgmental brush, I'd say that PT Mary is jealous of those she perceives to have more than she has. All I can say is consider the source! :eek::confused::cool:

[Unibok]

One point that might be made more clear is that specialty restaurants are not necessarily up-charge restaurants.

 

To the OPs question, it is clear in many responses here that people enjoy specialty (with or without an up charge) for variety. It’s not a denigration year f the MDR, just a way to have a bit more fun.

 

For me, a non-wealthy person who finds better overall value for myself on a luxury line, I mix it up. Some nights MDR, some nights at the casual Hot Rocks Grill, some nights at the Italian. All are specialty, all are included. If I want to go really fancy, there is an upcharge resto that i might go to once per cruise.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Joebucks]

To the extent that we have gotten to know some cruise snobs, we generally find that they are often an unhappy lot who get their kicks out of trying to impress others. In most cases they are social climber "wannabees" who generally do not succeed at impressing anyone.

 

The same can be said for most types of "snobs". God forbid you like any type of mainstream restaurant, beer, music, etc. You will immediately hear how inferior of a choice it is.

 

It gets old real fast. Not everyone on more expensive cruise line is like this, not even close. Heck, I'd like to think Royal has more than anyone.

[Texas Tillie]

The same can be said for most types of "snobs". God forbid you like any type of mainstream restaurant, beer, music, etc. You will immediately hear how inferior of a choice it is.

 

It gets old real fast. Not everyone on more expensive cruise line is like this, not even close. Heck, I'd like to think Royal has more than anyone.

 

You mean Royal Caribbean?? On my one Royal Caribbean cruise I noticed that the one thing the passengers tended to have more of was girth! :eek::o;p:cool: