Are You a Specialty Restaurant Enthusiast Because of Poor Food Quality in the MDR?

[sverigecruiser]

We always liked our food when we ate in the MDR so the main reason for us to eat in the specialty restaurants then was not to get better food.

 

Now we eat most of our meals in the Havenrestaurant when we cruise on NCL, mainly because of the better service. If cruising in MSCs Yacht Club the MDR isn't an option unless a special arrangement is made about it.

[Cruisercl]

IMO, this is very, very subjective.

We have had great meals in the MDR and poor meals in specialty restaurants and vice versa.

We have sailed on 7 cruise lines and one is not much better than the others, no matter how much we paid for the cruise. Not one cruise line is consistent with their food offerings in the MDR vs the specialty restaurants.

Everyone's experience is different so it is difficult to compare, really.

 

Safe sailing! :)

[marco]

We'll usually opt for one evening in s specialty restaurant, just for "something different" as usually there is something on the menu that doesn't appear in the MDR. One thing I thought peculiar however.....in the MDR you can literally eat your way up and down the menu. On a recent cruise on "X", I wanted to try 2 different appetizers and was told, "only one or the other". Considering you're paying the surcharge in the specialty restaurant and nothing extra in the MDR, such limitation in the specialty restaurant seemed odd.

[obnurse]

Like everything else, when we tried the specialty dining the first time it was amazing. Multiple courses, many choices and supreme food. Slowly, it's declined to much higher prices, less choices and the food is good but not good enough to warrant the high price. For my DH and I it simply is not worth the cost. I'd rather save that expense, eat in the MDR and enjoy an extra nice dinner at a home restaurant. Unless it's free, we're done with specialty dining.

[Heidi13]

 

I also chuckle when I read from people who say they are upset that they can't get the same quality meals in the MDR as they used to in the past. They always conveniently ignore that the cost of cruising today is significantly lower than in was the past in their complaints. If they wanted the same quality as in the past, they certainly can go to the more expensive "luxury" lines. They have similar food quality and service as before, but at prices that are comparable to before when inflation is factored in.

 

Prices today would be 3X as much if the cost of cruising kept up with inflation over the last 35 years. But the complainers would never willingly pay that much for a cruise. You can't have top level service and quality as mass market prices. Instead they complain about how it used to be, while pocketing the savings.

 

While inflationary pressures are ever present, if you have any understanding of changes to marine operating costs over the past 35 to 40 years you would have known that per pax costs have not increased commensurate with inflation, due to economy of scale and technology. The primary operating costs for a ship, in no particular order are fuel, crew and maintenance.

 

Fuel - Yes, the cost of fuel is currently about 3 or possibly even 4 times the cost in the 70's, but that is not reflected in current per pax costs.

 

Back in the 70's/80's many ships were steam turbine and were capable of vastly higher speeds. At full speed (>30 kts), Oriana used 500 tons of fuel per day, or about 250-300 tons at cruising speed. Current ships have significantly more fuel efficient diesel engines, run at significantly lower speeds and have hull designs and coatings that provide significant fuel savings. The new Intersleek coating provides about 6% fuel savings over SPC coatings and probably well over 10% savings on the 70's anti-foulings. New routing technology and position fixing technology also provide considerable fuel savings over my days, when we navigated with a sextant and many educated guesses.

 

The current medium sized cruise ships with 3,500+ pax probably use about 150 tons of fuel per day, depending on transit speed and steaming hours. However, the current ships have at least double the passengers than the old liners and 5x the passengers of the original cruise ships, such as the Pacific/Island/Sun Princess.

 

Therefore, the fuel cost per pax is not substantially different to what it was in the 70's/80's.

 

Crew Costs - Similar to fuel, wages have increased, but what is the difference in cost per pax. I consider the ship's compliment as:

- Operational Crew - Master (Captain), Officers & Ratings, primarily in the Deck & Engineering Depts, responsible for operating the ship safely from A to B

- Hotel services - all other crew

 

Since I started working cruise ships in the mid 70's, the operational crew is almost the same number as on today's mega ships, which have from 5 to 10 times the passengers I carried. The positions may have changed, but the actual numbers are probably a minimal increase. The number of watch-keepers on the Bridge and E/R hasn't changed much, radio officers were replaced with electronics specialists and a few extra ratings and engineers/trades. While the ships are significantly larger, due to the improvements in coatings technology, significantly less work is required than the days when we used Red Lead & Marine Enamel.

 

Hotel services have seen a significant uplift in crew size, but the percentage increase is less than the percentage increase in pax. Pax/crew ratio used to be about 2:1, but on many ships, I believe it has dropped to 3:1, as waiters and cabin stewards now have many more pax.

 

How have salaries/wages changed. Cruise lines are now very adapt at significantly reducing their average wage bill. The Italian Galley & Dining Room staff on the original Princess ships, have been replaced with low cost multi-national crews.

 

With the officers, while salaries have increased, the total cost has probably not increased much and costs per pax are less. The terms & conditions now compared to my employment contract are not comparable. I spent 3 yrs as a cadet, during which P&O paid me a monthly salary and all tuition, exams and college room & board costs, so my cost to become 3rd Officer was ZERO. On attaining 3rd Officer in 1978, I received an excellent monthly salary, which was paid both on the ship & on leave. We also had extensive medical, sickness, study, pension, etc benefits. On board ship, I never paid for a drink purchased from a pax bar, as they were written off as entertainment expenses.

 

About 15 yrs ago, our son joined Princess as a cadet. He was paid US $900 per month when working aboard (6 months per year), but nothing on leave or at school. He also had to pay his full tuition costs, exams and room & board costs at school. As 3rd Officer on a N/American contract he made US $5,000 per month (cash) when aboard the ship. Pay stopped on departing the ship and he received no benefits or tuition costs for further certificates of competency. While his annual salary was about 3.5 times mine, his total cost to the company by the time he attained a Class 1 Master's CoC, was probably not much difference than my cost to the company, when benefits and tuition costs were added.

 

Factoring in the economy of scale for the new ships - Pacific/Island/Sun Princess were about 750 pax, whereas many newer ships are 3,500 to almost 7,000 pax. Therefore, due to economy of scale the cost per pax on today's newer ships is probably lower the cost per pax 35 to 40 years ago.

 

Maintenance - back in the 70's, cruise ships dry-docked every year for about 3 weeks, now ships dry-dock once every 5 years for 2 to 3 weeks. While routine maintenance and Main Engine rebuilds still continue, the costs of physically dry-docking are significantly less, even considering inflation. The additional revenue in the 4 non-drydock years also helps to offset the increased maintenance costs.

 

Current costs being consistent with 35 years ago is not achieved because of reduction in standards, but because this is the price point required to fill the mega ships. This is only possible as per pax costs have not increased with inflation. Cruise lines don't make profit from empty cabins, most money is made from on board revenue. Remember, serving 1 drink from a bottle almost pays for the bottle and the others are profit.

 

Fortunately, growth in the cruise industry is extensive and a variety of cruise lines and ships are available to meet the expectations of most passengers or potential passengers. Personally, we are in the minority, having no desire to board a mega ship, especially one visiting 5 or 6 ports in a week.

 

After 40 years with Princess, their standards have dropped below what we prefer. Therefore, we are moving to Viking and will happily pay more money to board their ships, with higher quality meals in the MDR & complimentary specialty restaurants.

[XBGuy]

We have most of our dinners in the specialty restaurants. Our reason is the same as that of others who have previously posted: we just think it is a superior dining experience.

 

I will state that almost all my specialty dining experience while cruising has been on Princess. Some of the reports I have read here regarding other lines sound very interesting. Someday, I may get the opportunity to try one of them.

 

In all honesty, the food that I have had in dining rooms has been fine. However, I am also of the opinion that I can grill a steak in my backyard that is as good or better than any I've had in the Princess Crown Grill. We really think the food at their SHARE restaurant is superior. We have also had good luck at Sabatini's (both the current and the previous menu), with the exception of one, unfortunately, chewy Bistecca Toscana. Again, I think ordering beef on Princess can be iffy.

 

We are not like a lot of people in that we like to linger during our meal. I am only exaggerating slightly when I say that we feel rushed by any meal that is over in less than two hours. We seem to be able to consistently tip off our servers to the fact that we have nothing pressing us to finish the meal.

 

My wife and I like to dine alone. We have found the two-tops in the dining rooms to be pretty scrunched together. For some reason or other, we find ourselves sitting inches away from some chatty couple who, for reasons unknown to us, feel that we are fascinated by stories of their precocious grandchildren. In the specialty restaurants, we always get our own table or booth, and in the case of the tables, there is plenty of space between them.

 

Somebody above mentioned that they tire of cruise food, and I have to agree with them. On a seven-day cruise we will have dinner in our cabin, at least one or two evenings. If we had lunch ashore on a port visit, this is a slam dunk. My wife loves the room service club sandwich. I am very OK with the sliced pizza from the Lido deck.

 

But isn't this the beauty of cruising? The fact that I enjoy specialty dining has no effect, at all, on somebody who is pleased with the dining room experience. Similarly, that person's preferences have no effect on the person who enjoys the buffet.

 

That is why we enjoy cruising. We get to customize our experience.

[iancal]

Over the past few years we have greatly reduced the number of cruises that we take.

 

For us the cruise experience has depreciated and the cost has appreciated to the point where the value proposition for us is not longer compelling. We are doing more AI's and much more independent travel. A cruise, at least on a mass market cruise line, is no longer the product that it was a few years ago. There are so many other travel options in the market place that as consumers we are really spoiled for choice.

 

When we do cruise we no longer bother with the MDR on formal evening. It just is not that great any more. After a week of so eating cruise ship food, any dining venue, we are ready to disembark.

[KnightsFan]

We enjoy specialty dining for the unique dishes that they offer, not because the MDR is lacking. We actually enjoy the lingering pace and traditional style of the MDR, the food isn't 5-star, but it's not Applebee's.

[Husky61]

We have no problem paying extra to eat in the specialty restaurants because we want to. If some want to eat only in the MDR, that is their choice regardless of the reason. Others like us, rarely in the MDR because we pay to eat in specialty restaurants because we think the food is much better.:)

[rkacruiser]

Heidi13,

 

Thank you very much for a most informative post!

[NantahalaCruiser]

We cruise many different lines (14 to date) and have generally found that all the mass market lines have significantly cut-back on both quality and quantity in their MDR dining. Many will tell you that Oceania has pretty decent cuisine, but that often comes at a higher price when compared to the mass market lines. Last year we spent 21 days on a Celebrity ship where we dined in their specialty restaurants for 16 nights (10 of those was in their excellent upscale Murano restaurant). We purchased a dining package and managed to get it during a 20% off sale which meant we averaged $25 per person for our dinners. Having cruised a lot on Celebrity we thought it was a good deal :). We had previously booked Aqua Class (where your assigned DR is Blu) but found that Murano is in an entirely different class. And by booking a well located regular balcony instead of a lousy located Aqua Class cabin, we saved more then enough money to pay for the dining package :).

 

Hank

Well said!

 

We have a Med cruise on the Reflection fall 2019 and Aqua Class is $100 pp per day more than the best regular balcony (1A at the 1B loyalty.fare). Ridiculous price difference, so will also be enjoying Murano several nights.

[calliopecruiser]

Just wondering if any cruiseline or ship has upped their game in the complimentary MDR from your previous experience?

 

I get tired of the time consuming element of specialty restaurants and making reservations......then paying extra for food on a cruise that has been paid for.

 

If their is a trend of better food in the MDR of any ship, let me know because I like dining in the MDR.

Even on a luxury line where the MDR food is good-to-great, I'm a specialty restaurant enthusiast for the "smaller" room and different atmosphere (like a normal restaurant vs a banquet hall).

[NantahalaCruiser]

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[rkacruiser]

Perhaps I have been fortunate, but most of my MDR dining experiences--breakfast, lunch, and dinner--have been good to excellent. Once in awhile, a dish will be served to me for which I don't care as to taste, preparation, or temperature. But, it does not happen often. The worst MDR experience I have had was on a trans-Atlantic crossing on Queen Elizabeth 2 in their Tourist Class Dining Room. (Having paid more per day to sail on QE2 in Tourist Class than I had paid per day on b2b Royal Viking Sky cruises did not make me a satisfied guest.)

 

I choose to patronize a ship's specialty restaurants because I want to have different travel dining experiences. Daily dining in the MDR does not become "old" for me as long as I have pleasant, enjoyable tablemates, very good/excellent service, and cuisine that pleases me.

 

Surely, I agree that ships' specialty restaurants do differ in how well they please the guest. A previous poster had many complimentary comments to make about Celebrity's Murano Restaurant. 100%, I agree. And, I would include Tuscan Grille as well. On the other hand, HAL's Pinnacle Grill often disappointments me. The PG on some ships is better than on others. Lunch is almost always better than dinner.

 

The most gourmet dinners that I have experienced aboard a ship have been the "special" dinners, i.e Cellar Master's Dinner, etc. Pricey, but cuisine, wine, service, and ambiance make the dining experience worthwhile. For me, the downside is the richness of the food and the number of courses served.

[zqvol]

Just wondering if any cruiseline or ship has upped their game in the complimentary MDR from your previous experience?

 

I get tired of the time consuming element of specialty restaurants and making reservations......then paying extra for food on a cruise that has been paid for.

 

If their is a trend of better food in the MDR of any ship, let me know because I like dining in the MDR.

 

IMO the main dining room is just as good as the specialty restaurants. The difference is the atmosphere and the quantity of food. I find the quality to be pretty similar.

[Journeymaker]

Just wondering if any cruiseline or ship has upped their game in the complimentary MDR from your previous experience?

 

Well here is a link to one of my favorite cruise lines and the May 2018 announcement by Oceania Cruiselines that is music to my ears! :cool: https://www.oceaniacruises.com/media/2018/OCEANIA+CRUISES+INTRODUCES+INNOVATIVE+NEW+DINING+OPTIONS/

[Joebucks]

I enjoy the MDR, even on Carnival. On my last cruise, I had prime rib, lobster, filet mignon, short ribs, and a few other things. All of it was good. There have been times where I didn't care as much for some things, but it is rare. I'd peg it like an outback/longhorn on average. Not the best meal I've ever eaten, but solid enough. You'll find that cruising are not the only business where the food has "evolved" over the years.

 

On our next cruise, we will be going to the steakhouse one night to mix it up a little. I'm glad I'm not a food snob. Don't come in with crazy high expectations, and you won't be disappointed.

[navybankerteacher]

We cruise for the at-sea time, some ports, and trans-Atlantic transportation —- not for food. Rather than pay $50+/- per for slightly better than average food, we will satisfy ourselves for the utilitarian meals in the MDR —- saving the extra expenditure for truly superior restaurants at home or elsewhere.

[Heidi13]

Heidi13,

 

Thank you very much for a most informative post!

 

Thanks, you're very welcome.

[Heidi13]

Perhaps I have been fortunate, but most of my MDR dining experiences--breakfast, lunch, and dinner--have been good to excellent. Once in awhile, a dish will be served to me for which I don't care as to taste, preparation, or temperature. But, it does not happen often. The worst MDR experience I have had was on a trans-Atlantic crossing on Queen Elizabeth 2 in their Tourist Class Dining Room. (Having paid more per day to sail on QE2 in Tourist Class than I had paid per day on b2b Royal Viking Sky cruises did not make me a satisfied guest.)

 

 

Wow, Royal Viking Line, now that is a name from the past. Used to see their ships many time, beautiful ships. Heard the meals and service were spectacular, so not surprised you were more satisfied with them than QE2.

[SantaFeFan]

We think of restaurants on a cruise, both the MDR and specialty, no different than we think of restaurants at home. We could go to the same Applebee's every time we dine out at home. But instead, we like variety and will dine at all kinds of restaurants, some of them much more costly than Applebee's and similar restaurants. It's about trying new things, enjoying new surroundings, and occasionally, a more intimate experience and a higher quality meal than we would typically have.

 

Not sure why some people are so adamant about not spending the extra cost for a better dining experience while on a cruise. Don't you occasionally spend extra for an upscale dining experience at home?

 

And for those that would argue that "why pay more when we have already paid for meals in the MDR?" The same could be said for taking a cruise in the first place - why pay more for a cruise when you will still have to pay the expenses on your home during your absence (mortgage, taxes, home owner's insurance, utilities, etc.)? After all, even though you are on a cruise, the cost of owning your home (or renting your apartment) will not stop while you are away. You still have to pay the monthly expenses for it even if you aren't using it.

 

I know, you say "We cruise for the experience of doing something different than what we can do at home". The same could be said for occasionally dining in an extra cost specialty dining experience - "it's for the experience of doing something different than what you can do in the MDR". :p

Edited July 9, 2018 by SantaFeFan

[lenquixote66]

Are you serious? So lets compare Celebrity Solstice Class MDR to Murano. In Murano one can order whole Dover Sole which is perfected prepared and filleted tableside. In the MDR one might get tasteless farmed Tilapia which is generally dried out. In Murano a couple can order exquisite Chateaubriand which is carved tableside and can be cut with a fork. In the MDR one might order a ground meat off the everyday menu. We could go on an on and even do some comparisons with other cruise lines. I will grant you that the alternative restaurants on some cruise lines are not even close to Murano...but in nearly all cases they are far superior to that line's MDR.

 

Hank

I have never eaten Sole or Tilapia .

[Pudgesmom]

We upgraded to a more premium line after trying several more mainstream lines. It’s a good value for us, and the overall food quality three times a day (not just at dinner premium restaurants) is well worth the additional

cost for us.We also enjoy the higher crew to guest ratio and much more space per passenger. I would encourage the OP to at least investigate a step up to see if the increased amenities would be a good value to them.

 

I just booked a one week cruise in the Caribbean on our favorite line on a special. $1299/pp. For us that’s a great value for much better service and food, lots of onboard room, out of the way small ports and included Diet Coke!

 

Everyone wants something different. Sometimes though, I do believe people just look at the “start” price of “from” and never consider either the extra money which they will spend on board for the lesser priced cruise or the additional quality and amenities received for a higher priced cruise.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Pudgesmom

[navybankerteacher]

I have never eaten Sole or Tilapia .

 

Interesting - but hardly a stand alone qualification to discuss dining options. Your point being...?

[Flatbush Flyer]

We upgraded to a more premium line after trying several more mainstream lines. It’s a good value for us, and the overall food quality three times a day (not just at dinner premium restaurants) is well worth the additional

cost for us.We also enjoy the higher crew to guest ratio and much more space per passenger. I would encourage the OP to at least investigate a step up to see if the increased amenities would be a good value to them.

 

I just booked a one week cruise in the Caribbean on our favorite line on a special. $1299/pp. For us that’s a great value for much better service and food, lots of onboard room, out of the way small ports and included Diet Coke!

 

Everyone wants something different. Sometimes though, I do believe people just look at the “start” price of “from” and never consider either the extra money which they will spend on board for the lesser priced cruise or the additional quality and amenities received for a higher priced cruise.

 

 

What you are referring to speaks to the "net daily rate" (where you take all required and desired optional costs PLUS the cabin cost and divide it by the number of cruise days).

Apparently, a lot of CC folks haven't thought about the value of included premium/luxury cruise items when they first see what they think is some "huge" fare compared to the upper end of the mass market. For example, one of the great cruise fare equalizers is international airfare, which some premium/luxury lines include in their cabin price. Then start adding other included things like internet, specialty restaurants, beverages, alcohol and/or excursions. AND we haven't even begun to look at the better quality of food, service, etc.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Flatbush Flyer