P&O Cruisers - What are things like where YOU are?

[AnnieC]

17 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't make them, we agreed we wanted to do it even before it was compulsory. 

We don't like it, but our goal is to achieve as safe an environment as possible for all of us. 

I agree with you, if it is felt necessary  for customers, surely it should be compulsory for shop staff who are exposed to hundreds of potential carriers. 

Andy 

Sorry, poor wording on my part. I imagine wearing a mask all day is not fun but you clearly have a loyal and decent workforce, doubtless because you treat them properly. 

[kalos]

I Think Andy is taking a reasonable stance running his premises .

As well as focusing on UK disabilities law, it does not end there for him as he also has to abide

by the Health and safety at work acts ,which mean he has a duty of care for his staff and any other visitors

that visit or work there . He has to take reasonable steps to keep them safe ,which he has done by making a mask 

or visor policy, to protect everyone that enters his premises .

With the disability he has also took reasonable steps to cater for them by offering other options .

Same as Graham I had /have heart problems (Heart failure) and have a duty of care for myself by wearing 

PPE/ masks or use a visiting delivering service to my home.Or stay at home if need be .

I have no problem with this as we are meant to be helping each other(All in this together)

I would not expect Andy to do anything else as to me he has taken all reasonable steps to protect everyone .

 

Stay safe  everyone !

 

 

[Eglesbrech]

19 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

It's not only you Andy. Joe's just been to our local One-stop branch and they're refusing entry to anyone not wearing a mask, face-shield or face covering. All the staff are also wearing masks. They'll certainly have our custom.

Avril 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/disabled-scots-lawyer-disgusted-after-22380425
 

Shops up here are already being challenged if they have a blanket policy.

[P&O SUE]

19 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Another thing that I don't understand is, if you have to wear masks in shops , supermarkets or takeaways etc, then why is it OK to sit in a cinema or a theatre for 2 or more hours, with many more people than you'd come into contact with shopping,  without one???

Avril 

I saw a clip of a concert on the Tv and everyone seemed to be wearing masks.

[Adawn47]

3 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Not theatres Avril, they are not open which I find really odd.  Why is a cinema OK and a theatre not?

I was repeating something I read online this morning which listed places where masks must be worn and those which were exempt. Theatres were listed as exempt as were cinemas so maybe the opening of them may be coming in the near future. One exempt place I found to be quite hilarious was dentists, well they would be wouldn't they?? obviously!!!😂

Avril 

[Eglesbrech]

11 minutes ago, kalos said:

I Think Andy is taking a reasonable stance running his premises .

As well as focusing on UK disabilities law, it does not end there for him as he also has to abide

by the Health and safety at work acts ,which mean he has a duty of care for his staff and any other visitors

that visit or work there . He has to take reasonable steps to keep them safe ,which he has done by making a mask 

or visor policy, to protect everyone that enters his premises .

With the disability he has also took reasonable steps to cater for them by offering other options .

Same as Graham I had /have heart problems (Heart failure) and have a duty of care for myself by wearing 

PPE/ masks or use a visiting delivering service to my home.Or stay at home if need be .

I have no problem with this as we are meant to be helping each other(All in this together)

I would not expect Andy to do anything else as to me he has taken all reasonable steps to protect everyone .

 

Stay safe  everyone !

 

 

So why did the government include exemptions if H&S risk assessments could simply overrule them completely?

 

Could it be that it was all cobbled together at the last minute with precious little thought or cohesion?😈

 

[cruisenewbie1976]

Just been into town and I'd say 90% of people were wearing face coverings in shops. Unfortunately, of those 90%, about half had them under their nose! 

[Adawn47]

16 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/disabled-scots-lawyer-disgusted-after-22380425
 

Shops up here are already being challenged if they have a blanket policy.

Surely everyone has the right to protect themselves, their family, there businesses and livelihoods and also others. Exemption cards should have been issued well before. As usual, cart before the horse and we have to take the flak.

Avril 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Adawn47
Added text

[kalos]

6 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

So why did the government include exemptions if H&S risk assessments could simply overrule them completely?

 

Could it be that it was all cobbled together at the last minute with precious little thought or cohesion?😈

 

That could be spun around to what exemptions are they for Andys workers if disabled or not visitor was to infect

one of his workers because he did not protect them when he could have ?

I personally would not play the exemption card on a person who was trying to protect everyone .

I'm far from disagreeing with you when it comes to the law ,the law is an ass but it's all we have to 

work with .

 

[AndyMichelle]

37 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

So why did the government include exemptions if H&S risk assessments could simply overrule them completely?

 

Could it be that it was all cobbled together at the last minute with precious little thought or cohesion?😈

 

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I just have to protect me and mine the best I can. 

I welcome being challenged legally, I have taken all the relevant steps and advice. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

1 hour ago, Eglesbrech said:

They managed for 3 months when the government provided shopping and services for those shielding.  These services have now ceased (perhaps they are still available in England?)

 

Some of those now exempt from wearing masks were not covered by shielding so had to fend for themselves throughout. 

A safe shop at home service is great and probably much appreciated. It could be your “reasonable adjustment” but not if someone really wants to push the point and visit in person.

 

It was thought necessary and it was introduced but with very specific and clear exemptions. As I said I wear a shield and personally think that most people could. The government did not choose to make this mandatory.
 

While I admire your stance to protect your staff you are leaving your self wide open to action and the disability lobby is a strong one. You joke about someone seeing you in court, for your own sake please just be careful.

 

I don't joke about something so serious. 

I have spent fortunes making sure I can do what I am doing. 

We also offer an appointment service when we are officially closed for anyone who cannot wear a mask, so we are taking reasonable steps. 

I am not an essential service they cannot do without. 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I just have to protect me and mine the best I can. 

I welcome being challenged legally, I have taken all the relevant steps and advice. 

Andy 

Andy, for what it’s worth, your approach sounds eminently sensible and eminently reasonable. And if it’s reasonable, which it certainly sounds to be, I doubt you’ll have any problems.

 

Harry

Edited July 25, 2020 by Harry Peterson

[Eglesbrech]

15 minutes ago, kalos said:

That could be spun around to what exemptions are they for Andys workers if disabled or not visitor was to infect

one of his workers because he did not protect them when he could have ?

I personally would not play the exemption card on a person who was trying to protect everyone .

I'm far from disagreeing with you when it comes to the law ,the law is an ass but it's all we have to 

work with .

 

Shops don’t generally keep the names and contact details of customers (unlike for example pubs) so there it is unlikely that a member of staff could make this stick. The employer is also simply following government guidance on exemptions if they allow a disabled person access.
 

Someone who is using the exemption the law allows them can however very easily prove that they have been refused legitimate entry to a premises. See the link above where the disability lawyer makes videos etc.

 

The legal aspect are one thing, the morality something quite different as you say.

[kalos]

4 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I just have to protect me and mine the best I can. 

I welcome being challenged legally, I have taken all the relevant steps and advice. 

Andy 

 

I've just had this posted on the "lets smile page" 

 

Could you not stick this poster up  in your shop Andy ?   

 

A Reasonable deterrent if you ask me    

 

 

[Adawn47]

4 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

We also offer an appointment service when we are officially closed for anyone who cannot wear a mask, so we are taking reasonable steps

You are taking others health and wellbeing into consideration and it's only right that they reciprocate. That to me is the example that everyone should abide by 😷

Avril 

[AndyMichelle]

27 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Shops don’t generally keep the names and contact details of customers (unlike for example pubs) so there it is unlikely that a member of staff could make this stick. The employer is also simply following government guidance on exemptions if they allow a disabled person access.
 

Someone who is using the exemption the law allows them can however very easily prove that they have been refused legitimate entry to a premises. See the link above where the disability lawyer makes videos etc.

 

The legal aspect are one thing, the morality something quite different as you say.

That's another step we are taking, all visitors have to fill out a form agreeing to comply and supply contact details for potential track and trace. 

They don't have to shop with us but, fortunately, many do... 

Andy 

[Eglesbrech]

2 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

That's another step we are taking, all visitors have to fill out a form agreeing to comply and supply contact details for potential track and trace. 

They don't have to shop with us but, fortunately, many do... 

Andy 

I don’t know what your business is Andy but most shops don’t do this.

 

You absolutely have the right to run your business any way you see fit but then others have a right to challenge you and other retailers (and some are already). You seem happy with that as you have obviously taken great care in what you are doing.

 

The problem is if other, more essential shops are taking the same stance. 
 

The story below concerns autism but a quick google search brings up others as this has been in place here for weeks now. 
 

'Consideration needed for those not wearing masks in shops“
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-53530819
 

 

 

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

I don’t know what your business is Andy but most shops don’t do this.

 

You absolutely have the right to run your business any way you see fit but then others have a right to challenge you and other retailers (and some are already). You seem happy with that as you have obviously taken great care in what you are doing.

 

The problem is if other, more essential shops are taking the same stance. 
 

The story below concerns autism but a quick google search brings up others as this has been in place here for weeks now. 
 

'Consideration needed for those not wearing masks in shops“
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-53530819
 

 

 

One of our staff has an autistic son who came in yesterday very happy to wear his mask. 

I never want to discriminate, but have to make a call on what is best for the majority, especially our staff and their families and our many elderly customers. 

It seems everyone is complying so far. 

Andy 

[Eglesbrech]

20 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

One of our staff has an autistic son who came in yesterday very happy to wear his mask. 

I never want to discriminate, but have to make a call on what is best for the majority, especially our staff and their families and our many elderly customers. 

It seems everyone is complying so far. 

Andy 

Some exempt folks will be happy to do so, some will not and the law says they don’t have to. 

 

On a lighter note what are the masks like down there?

 

We have a new cottage industry for face coverings with some really amazing designs that people have obviously hand made. There are even some jeweled ones. It seems that every shop now has an array of fashionable masks.

 

 Visors are also personalised with little decorations on the headbands or the edges.

 

Amazing how the world has changed in a few short weeks.

 

 

 

 

[kruzseeka]

1 hour ago, AndyMichelle said:

I don't joke about something so serious. 

I have spent fortunes making sure I can do what I am doing. 

We also offer an appointment service when we are officially closed for anyone who cannot wear a mask, so we are taking reasonable steps. 

I am not an essential service they cannot do without. 

Andy 

 

It seems to me you are doing your very best in terms of duty of care to your employees and carrying out the appropriate risk assessments.  I commend your efforts and of course your over--riding need to protect yourself and very importantly, Michelle.   

Having made special arrangements for those unable to wear a mask, I think anyone challenging you would be a miserable so and so.  Of course there are those who just want to make a point but in the circumstances I think any right minded person would dismiss them out of hand.  However, I'm no H&S expert but wish you well and trust your customers are as decent and understanding as you are clearly being in a difficult situation. 

[grapau27]

24 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

One of our staff has an autistic son who came in yesterday very happy to wear his mask. 

I never want to discriminate, but have to make a call on what is best for the majority, especially our staff and their families and our many elderly customers. 

It seems everyone is complying so far. 

Andy 

You are a wonderful employer and caring for your customers too.

If everyone was as diligent as yourself this virus would have affected a lot less people.

Well done Andy.

[grapau27]

6 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

It seems to me you are doing your very best in terms of duty of care to your employees and carrying out the appropriate risk assessments.  I commend your efforts and of course your over--riding need to protect yourself and very importantly, Michelle.   

Having made special arrangements for those unable to wear a mask, I think anyone challenging you would be a miserable so and so.  Of course there are those who just want to make a point but in the circumstances I think any right minded person would dismiss them out of hand.  However, I'm no H&S expert but wish you well and trust your customers are as decent and understanding as you are clearly being in a difficult situation. 

+1.

[AndyMichelle]

7 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Some exempt folks will be happy to do so, some will not and the law says they don’t have to. 

 

On a lighter note what are the masks like down there?

 

We have a new cottage industry for face coverings with some really amazing designs that people have obviously hand made. There are even some jeweled ones. It seems that every shop now has an array of fashionable masks.

 

 Visors are also personalised with little decorations on the headbands or the edges.

 

Amazing how the world has changed in a few short weeks.

 

 

 

 

Michelle made a load and we purchased visors for about £3 each. We  have disposable masks that we will give to customers who have forgotten them, we'll, I say give, we ask them to put a pound in our charity box. 

Lots of funky designs coming through the door but I suspect we will see more flamboyancy as time goes on. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

5 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

You are a wonderful employer and caring for your customers too.

If everyone was as diligent as yourself this virus would have affected a lot less people.

Well done Andy.

Thank you Graham, it is difficult to take a stance but I believe more issues will be caused by shops not standing their ground and upsetting the ones who do comply. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

14 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

It seems to me you are doing your very best in terms of duty of care to your employees and carrying out the appropriate risk assessments.  I commend your efforts and of course your over--riding need to protect yourself and very importantly, Michelle.   

Having made special arrangements for those unable to wear a mask, I think anyone challenging you would be a miserable so and so.  Of course there are those who just want to make a point but in the circumstances I think any right minded person would dismiss them out of hand.  However, I'm no H&S expert but wish you well and trust your customers are as decent and understanding as you are clearly being in a difficult situation. 

Thank you, so far, everyone has been understanding without exception, but I dare say someone will take offence. 

Andy