Orlando Ashford is leaving HAL

[nimiq]

4 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

Praise God Oprah is gone, right?

Thats was a real joke as well ...she did not do much and was not even present on the first U.S cruise of the Nieuw Statendam.

[TriumphGuy]

1 hour ago, Cruiser Bruiser said:

 So, Shwartz must be doing something right.

I don't know about that. We dumped Princess after she removed the in cabin chairs from balcony and below category rooms. For our 60 y/o+ bodies that was a non-starter. Probably the dumbest move she could have made.

We booked with HAL for the first time in hopes things would be better. Needless to say, the cruise never happened due to the virus. At least Ashford didn't yank chairs out of staterooms...yet. Maybe that was next on the list.

Edited May 12, 2020 by TriumphGuy

[RuthC]

25 minutes ago, TriumphGuy said:

At least Ashford didn't yank chairs out of staterooms...yet.

He did in some cabins. Inside cabins on the Pinnacle class ships have nothing to sit on (except the toilet. thank God he left THAT!) 
 

 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, DFD1 said:

Many of us would welcome the merger of HAL and Seabourn, bringing the smaller ships into the fleet and adjusting their services and fares to better fit the HAL customer profile.

 

One wonders how Seabourn customers would feel about that....?

[USN59-79]

1 hour ago, DFD1 said:

Many of us would welcome the merger of HAL and Seabourn, bringing the smaller ships into the fleet and adjusting their services and fares to better fit the HAL customer profile.

I am thinking that the typical $1000. HAL cruise, similar time and itinerary is a $3500 Seaborn cruise.  I wonder how the fares and services would be adjusted in that scenario.

[DFD1]

1 minute ago, USN59-79 said:

I am thinking that the typical $1000. HAL cruise, similar time and itinerary is a $3500 Seaborn cruise.  I wonder how the fares and services would be adjusted in that scenario.

 

It would likely only work if the pricing was different on the smaller ships....perhaps cost more per day....than on the larger ships, which, IMO, must increase fares to some extent anyway when cruising resumes.

 

Pinsendam was already more expensive per day than other HAL ships and she was very successful.

 

There are probably 100 reasons which could be sighted saying it would not work, but it's an interesting thought.

[npcl]

16 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

One wonders how Seabourn customers would feel about that....?

They could always roll HAL into Seabourn.

[eroller]

I think there is ZERO chance of Seabourn and HAL combining.  Two totally different markets and the luxury Seabourn ships don't fit within the HAL brand at all, and vice versa.  One is luxury and the other essentially mass-market.  There is something different happening here.  It's more likely that Princess would combine with HAL.  The Princess brand reputation is heavily damaged and some in the industry question if they will survive as a brand.  The Princess brand is most aligned to the HAL brand in the Carnival portfolio, and there are a lot of overlaps.    

 

It's quite obvious these were not "resignations" and a restructuring shake up is in the works.  Usually announcements like this are followed by more such announcements, and the week is far from over so I would expect more of the same.  Also today many layoffs (or redundancies) at Carnival UK in Southampton.     

Edited May 12, 2020 by eroller

[mariner]

HAL and Seabourn are two distinct brands and there's no chance of merging Seabourn's luxury with HAL's mega ship mentality. Seabourn passengers wouldn't put up with that.

The fact that seems forgotten is Carnival used the Princess model to cheapen HAL many years ago. Most of the changes that bothered HAL loyalists began with Princess.

Careful what you wish for in a new CEO or president. I've never known any who revert on practices.

It's always advance and, given the current climate, they must find ways or stabilizing and boosting the company coffers.

[sppunk]

HAL ships do not fit Seabourn’s business profile whatsoever.  They’re too on-board revenue-driven and a capacity too large to handle Seabourn policies. Staff can go back and forth, as they’ve been doing, but those can’t be folded together.

 

HAL passengers on average can’t afford Seabourn as is, either. 
 

I think Princess is the odd one out UNLESS they pick up NCL ships for cheap. I dint see that happening and it’d compete too much with Carnival itself anyway. 
 

Princess is - while a good, solid line - a little rutterless. 
 

 

[Sir PMP]

3 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Agreed, one of the better things Orlando instituted, along with

 

Changing the Northern Lights nightclubs into Gallery Bars.

The early availability of your stateroom on embarkation day (not having to wait elsewhere for that P/A announcement by the CD), along the same lines, being able to wait in your cabin until your "number" is called on disembarkation day

Electronic mustering

the creation of the Dive-In burger galley

Expanded salad bars

The Club Orange concept, but only on the two ships that have the dedicated restaurant

 

 

Not so good/terrible decisions and/or things that fell apart on his watch:

 

The change from the original Crow's Nest with full library into Explorations Central

Rijksmuseum at Sea (supposed to go to all Vistas and up, thankfully only found on Westerdam)

Getting rid of the full cast and their production shows

Getting rid of the Screening Room movie theaters on the Vistas and up

Giving CDs the added responsibility as travel director and gutting his/her staff

The "Orange Party"

America's Test Kitchen

 

Probably forgetting stuff............

 

Removing music and dance floor from the Crow's nest! A  crow's nest without people and closed at 8:00pm , cost them a lot of money, according to one exec, they loose approx. $1250 per night..

[The-Inside-Cabin]

3 hours ago, cccole said:

I was also thinking that Ashford may have a significant sum in is contract if he is asked to leave.  Under the circumstances it would be even more tragic for HAL if Ashford receives a severance while others wait for their refunds.    To The-Inside-Cabin, did Ashford always make the special appearance on World Cruises or did Kruse also show up?  Really miss your daily reports from the WC!!  Cherie   

I was on 2016 and 2018 and  Ashford, Kruse and Donald made the trip on those cruises

Edited May 13, 2020 by The-Inside-Cabin

[DAllenTCY]

I have a comment regarding production shows on the main stage.

 

My latest cruise on the Carnival Victory a few months ago had two very well choreographed shows with full bands.....yes, in the rising pit and circling center stage, too!  The dancers and singers were truly top notch....laser show was unbelievable.....how do they make large virtual "smoke rings" circle above your head?  And pyrotechnics were also blended in with CO2 misters as well.  The shows were fabulous and a highlight of my trip.

 

On both nights, attendance was minimal.......15% of the seats occupied.

 

The CD announced that both shows were being discontinued.

 

So, I question.....who wants them back besides me?

 

David

P.S. Other than shoreside staff, air-sea department, office space (which they already share), I don't see any advantage to do more between Seabourn and HAL.   Ship sizes are too diverse in my opinion.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by DAllenTCY

[Shmoo here]

3 minutes ago, DAllenTCY said:

So, I question.....who wants them back besides me?

🙋‍♀️ Me.

[KirkNC]

43 minutes ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

I was on 2016 and 2018 and  Ashford, Kruse and Donald made the trip on those cruises

Only for a few days.

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Agreed, one of the better things Orlando instituted, along with

 

Changing the Northern Lights nightclubs into Gallery Bars.

The early availability of your stateroom on embarkation day (not having to wait elsewhere for that P/A announcement by the CD), along the same lines, being able to wait in your cabin until your "number" is called on disembarkation day

Electronic mustering

the creation of the Dive-In burger galley

Expanded salad bars

The Club Orange concept, but only on the two ships that have the dedicated restaurant

 

 

Not so good/terrible decisions and/or things that fell apart on his watch:

 

The change from the original Crow's Nest with full library into Explorations Central

Rijksmuseum at Sea (supposed to go to all Vistas and up, thankfully only found on Westerdam)

Getting rid of the full cast and their production shows

Getting rid of the Screening Room movie theaters on the Vistas and up

Giving CDs the added responsibility as travel director and gutting his/her staff

The "Orange Party"

America's Test Kitchen

 

Probably forgetting stuff............

 

 

Other than the creation of the Club Orange concept, I agree with your statements.

 

I am somewhat shocked just reading this news tonight.  Neither Mr. Ashford nor Mr. Meadows is responsible for where HAL or Seabourn now finds themselves.  Both did the jobs that they were hired to do to the best of their knowledge and ability.  Some things worked; some things didn't.  

 

If Stein Kruse is the "last Executive last standing" to oversee whatever CCL groups that remain viable, I think he is the best that they have available.  When Kirk Lanterman retired, Mr. Kruse was a worthy successor for HAL.   

[rkacruiser]

One problem for HAL in recent years is the retirement of several senior executives in a variety of areas.  Some of these people were replaced with folks that lacked the experience and the knowledge that those whom replaced had acquired.  Hence:  changes.  Changes that they believed were required in the late 20th and early 21st Century in order to attract patronage. 

[Seavoyage]

Sure - he runs Holland America Line into the ground then leaves.  The joke's on us.  

[Seavoyage]

3 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

Praise God Oprah is gone, right?

Perhaps the experiment is now over and we can go back to normal.... 

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, Sir PMP said:

Removing music and dance floor from the Crow's nest! A  crow's nest without people and closed at 8:00pm , cost them a lot of money, according to one exec, they loose approx. $1250 per night..

 

Yep, that's why I said "original Crow's Nest" - On the "S" and "R"-class ships, there was a time when they had a live band in there playing modern dance music. Their last set usually concluded at 11:00 PM, when the DJ took over

Edited May 13, 2020 by Copper10-8

[Copper10-8]

24 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Other than the creation of the Club Orange concept, I agree with your statements.

 

I am somewhat shocked just reading this news tonight.  Neither Mr. Ashford nor Mr. Meadows is responsible for where HAL or Seabourn now finds themselves.  Both did the jobs that they were hired to do to the best of their knowledge and ability.  Some things worked; some things didn't.  

 

If Stein Kruse is the "last Executive last standing" to oversee whatever CCL groups that remain viable, I think he is the best that they have available.  When Kirk Lanterman retired, Mr. Kruse was a worthy successor for HAL.   

 

I say again that Club Orange on Koningsdam and Nieuw Statendam, I'm talking about the dedicated dining venue there (it also takes the place of breakfast in the PG for "suiters") is fine. That's my personal opinion having dined there on K-dam. If you haven't on those two ships, you ought to give it a try 😉 

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

I say again that Club Orange on Koningsdam and Nieuw Statendam, I'm talking about the dedicated dining venue there (it also takes the place of breakfast in the PG for "suiters") is fine. That's my personal opinion having dined there on K-dam. If you haven't on those two ships, you ought to give it a try 😉 

 

I have not tried that.  I have only sailed on Nieuw Statendam in a veranda stateroom.  For the extra cost, since I am a 5 Star Mariner with the "perks" associated with that status, Club Orange just seemed to be a "bridge too far" to make it worthwhile for me to pay the extra cost.  

[erewhon]

4 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Agreed, one of the better things Orlando instituted, along with

The early availability of your stateroom on embarkation day (not having to wait elsewhere for that P

 

 

Sorry John, but staterooms were available at 1130 am, September 2010 on the Volendam. 

We sailed the last Alaska cruise of the season, stayed on board for the Trans Pacific, on turn around day Hotel Manager Rene Tuinman very busy supervising the crew to have staterooms ready for embarking passengers by 1130.

When we left our room to go ashore, we  saw him in the hallway, am sure he told us that this would be the first cruise that all staterooms would be ready by 1130.

The week earlier we were escorted to the ship for boarding at 1130, (think we were first to board), we went straight up to to our stateroom which was ready.

 

[Copper10-8]

16 minutes ago, erewhon said:

 

Sorry John, but staterooms were available at 1130 am, September 2010 on the Volendam. 

We sailed the last Alaska cruise of the season, stayed on board for the Trans Pacific, on turn around day Hotel Manager Rene Tuinman very busy supervising the crew to have staterooms ready for embarking passengers by 1130.

When we left our room to go ashore, we  saw him in the hallway, am sure he told us that this would be the first cruise that all staterooms would be ready by 1130.

The week earlier we were escorted to the ship for boarding at 1130, (think we were first to board), we went straight up to to our stateroom which was ready.

 

 

Thanks for having a better memory than moi, Phil (You also Roy!) 😉 Gonna have to take that one off Mr. Ashford's A-list

[darstamp]

Well, I've read all of your comments and appreciate the views of you knowledgeable, experienced HAL cruisers.  I was a dedicated loyal NCL cruiser.  Unfortunately, NCL started expanding with bigger and bigger ships which do not appeal to me at all. Added to that were poor Pacific Coast itineraries and I had to find an alternative cruise line.  The first line I tried was Princess.  Great California coast itinerary, good excursions, loved the wine bar, but that was about all.  We were jammed in like sardines.  If you didn't get there really early, forget it, all the seats were gone.  Not keen about sailing on Princess again.  Then, last summer. I sailed to Alaska on the Nieuw Amsterdam.  I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.  Loved the music venues, especially the Lincoln Centre stage, enjoyed the educational talks and videos, thought the Test Kitchen was a waste of time, found the Exploration Lounge pretty boring.  I hope to sail with HAL again but I do have concerns that the offerings could become a little dull after a few trips.  So I do hope the powers that be are listening to you because I think HAL just needs a bit of tweaking and it could be perfect.