Carnival Now Says They Expect 13 Ships To Leave Their Fleet

[xDisconnections]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

You must be referring to the Royal ships. No one can touch Carnival on shorter cruises from more ports. At least not before c19. We will have to see what ships and ports survive.

Hopefully the interest in the industry is still there if Carnival is planning to keep many of the older ships and unique homeports. Those with a “merchandise credit” will run out eventually and it’s only the loyalists I see wanting to cruise while living in a cruise-ship driven market.

Edited July 19, 2020 by xDisconnections

[BlerkOne]

38 minutes ago, coffeeboy77 said:

Hahaha! Tell us how you really feel.  I will say they aren’t my favorites, but it’s sad they’re being scrapped so early...it just doesn’t seem like good stewardship to me.  The Inspiration was a 1996 build.  These ships can be serviceable for as much as 50 years with maintenance.  It’s too bad a smaller line in a different market overseas  couldn’t take them on.  I’m sure this pandemic put the final nail in coffin.

 

As long as Carnival doesn't scrap Fantasy class, they could likely buy them back for pennies in a few years.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Hopefully the interest in the industry is still there if Carnival is planning to keep many of the older ships and unique homeports. Those with a “merchandise credit” will run out eventually and it’s only the loyalists I see wanting to cruise while living in a cruise-ship driven market.

 

Loyalists, in these times, are actually what will keep a cruise line going. Novice cruisers will be more leery of trying cruising in the midst of a pandemic. Once the crisis is over, loyalists will go back to overvaluing themselves.

 

[SNJCruisers]

2 hours ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I agree, but I believe they will keep at least two fantasy class ships to service the smaller home ports.  Plus, these ships are still appreciated by the loyalists for the most part.

Have to disagree with you.  Fantasy Class ships are appreciated by two groups, those that like the shorter 3-5 day cruises and those that can drive to Mobile, Jacksonville, Tampa etc in order to save money on the airfare not needed.  Those ships had their place in their day, but they have long ago been in my rear view mirror.  And I am a loyalist with 18 cruises out of 35 on Carnival.

[Jamman54]

4 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Have to disagree with you.  Fantasy Class ships are appreciated by two groups, those that like the shorter 3-5 day cruises and those that can drive to Mobile, Jacksonville, Tampa etc in order to save money on the airfare not needed.  Those ships had their place in their day, but they have long ago been in my rear view mirror.  And I am a loyalist with 18 cruises out of 35 on Carnival.

I guess I have to disagree with you. I guess I can be considered a loyalist since 55 of my 60 cruises have been on Carnival, and my wife and I love sailing on Fantasy Class ships from time to time. Since starting my cruising career on the Holiday in 1985 when she was brand new,  I was able to sail on just about every Fantasy Class ship when they were very young. My cruising experience evolved as each new class of ships were introduced, so cruising on Fantasy Class is nostalgic for me, taking me back to the "good old days". Many crewmembers I know love working on these ships, and the service, to me, seems to show this whenever I cruise on one. We love these for the shorter runs which include tender ports such as Half Moon Cay, Princess Cay, or Grand Cayman. Would you rather tender ashore with 1500 fellow passengers, or 4000+? Anyway,  I  know that one day these ships will be gone, so I will continue to support them and enjoy them from time to time. We are booked on the Imagination in October 2021, and she is the only one we haven't been on. Hope it happens. 😎

[jimbo5544]

11 minutes ago, Jamman54 said:

I guess I have to disagree with you. I guess I can be considered a loyalist since 55 of my 60 cruises have been on Carnival, and my wife and I love sailing on Fantasy Class ships from time to time. Since starting my cruising career on the Holiday in 1985 when she was brand new,  I was able to sail on just about every Fantasy Class ship when they were very young. My cruising experience evolved as each new class of ships were introduced, so cruising on Fantasy Class is nostalgic for me, taking me back to the "good old days". Many crewmembers I know love working on these ships, and the service, to me, seems to show this whenever I cruise on one. We love these for the shorter runs which include tender ports such as Half Moon Cay, Princess Cay, or Grand Cayman. Would you rather tender ashore with 1500 fellow passengers, or 4000+? Anyway,  I  know that one day these ships will be gone, so I will continue to support them and enjoy them from time to time. We are booked on the Imagination in October 2021, and she is the only one we haven't been on. Hope it happens. 😎

Nice post, hope it does as well.

Edited July 19, 2020 by jimbo5544

[Stick93]

I was in on fascination once 3 years ago - but I will say the service on her was by far the best of all the Carnival cruises we went on. Staff seemed to have the ship in a good place. It was not the best looking ship we have been on, but the insides were good and the memories were great. 
Whatever your opinion on these ships are it a shame to see the cruising industry being forced to change so rapidly because of the situation. Maybe it’s time for these ships to go and maybe there is life in them,  but for the reasons that be - it’s seems We may never know what the ultimate plan was for them. 

[SNJCruisers]

Jamman54....I too started out on a Fantasy Class ship, the Jubilee when she was brand new in July of 1986.  The nostalgia is nice with fond memories of the crazy Joe Farcus color scheme, shooting skeet and golf balls off the aft deck.  Pillow fights, bikinis stuffed with ping pong balls and decorative "horses" on the Lido deck.  And of course looking for Cuba up on the funnel deck .  But things change, things improve and things evolve and that is why I have moved on.

[jsglow]

8 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

Jamman54....I too started out on a Fantasy Class ship, the Jubilee when she was brand new in July of 1986.  The nostalgia is nice with fond memories of the crazy Joe Farcus color scheme, shooting skeet and golf balls off the aft deck.  Pillow fights, bikinis stuffed with ping pong balls and decorative "horses" on the Lido deck.  And of course looking for Cuba up on the funnel deck .  But things change, things improve and things evolve and that is why I have moved on.

 

Jubilee was not a Fantasy class ship.  She was the 2nd of 3 Holiday class ships launched in 1986.

[ledges1]

I sailed on the Fantasy in late January. I had a good time except for the nasty cold that my wife and I caught on the ship. Carnival is not only reducing the fleet, it is reducing the number of ports of embarkation. It less expensive to consolidate to the larger ports for all the ancillary services (food, beverage, equipment, bedding, fuel, etc...). This consolidation may also eliminate administrative staff in the home office for HR, Accounting, etc... The loyal cruisers (including me) cannot fill up over 100 ships. Cities such as Mobile may not see a ship again for 10 years. This is unfortunate because they have a cruise terminal and deck with a bond issue the city has to pay. I believe the 13 ships may become 20 if cruises are discontinued until 2021. Cruises are not only depending on the US to open up, but also the destination ports. Key West has a referendum to eliminate large cruise docking. This could be another devestating hit to the industry. The cruise lines have not seen the worst yet. Norwegian is diluting it's common stock with a new issue of common shares to generate cash. Existing holders will have their current shares devalued. Another loss for the industry. Carnival is looking for another billion as they are selling and scrapping ships, an ominous sign. There will be future consolidation and some cruise lines may be forced to merge with others to survive. This is not unlike the banking industry when giants such as Wachovia, Merrill Lynch, Colonial and many other institutions disappeared. I do not like what I see happening, but I fear things will get worst, but I hope for a vaccine.

[SNJCruisers]

16 minutes ago, jsglow said:

 

Jubilee was not a Fantasy class ship.  She was the 2nd of 3 Holiday class ships launched in 1986.

I stand corrected.  The Jubilee I think was around 45K, while the Fantasy Class is around 70K.  Details fade after 30+ years.

[jimbo5544]

36 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

I stand corrected.  The Jubilee I think was around 45K, while the Fantasy Class is around 70K.  Details fade after 30+ years.

Ain’t that a fact

[coffeeboy77]

45 minutes ago, ledges1 said:

I sailed on the Fantasy in late January. I had a good time except for the nasty cold that my wife and I caught on the ship. Carnival is not only reducing the fleet, it is reducing the number of ports of embarkation. It less expensive to consolidate to the larger ports for all the ancillary services (food, beverage, equipment, bedding, fuel, etc...). This consolidation may also eliminate administrative staff in the home office for HR, Accounting, etc... The loyal cruisers (including me) cannot fill up over 100 ships. Cities such as Mobile may not see a ship again for 10 years. This is unfortunate because they have a cruise terminal and deck with a bond issue the city has to pay. I believe the 13 ships may become 20 if cruises are discontinued until 2021. Cruises are not only depending on the US to open up, but also the destination ports. Key West has a referendum to eliminate large cruise docking. This could be another devestating hit to the industry. The cruise lines have not seen the worst yet. Norwegian is diluting it's common stock with a new issue of common shares to generate cash. Existing holders will have their current shares devalued. Another loss for the industry. Carnival is looking for another billion as they are selling and scrapping ships, an ominous sign. There will be future consolidation and some cruise lines may be forced to merge with others to survive. This is not unlike the banking industry when giants such as Wachovia, Merrill Lynch, Colonial and many other institutions disappeared. I do not like what I see happening, but I fear things will get worst, but I hope for a vaccine.

Of course, the cruise lines could continue to operate under chapter 11 protection and could operate like this for several years.  Hard to predict what will happen.  I think if they can start up again before January of 21, they will all survive.  A full year of being shut down will probably bring some casualties.

[xDisconnections]

7 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Have to disagree with you.  Fantasy Class ships are appreciated by two groups, those that like the shorter 3-5 day cruises and those that can drive to Mobile, Jacksonville, Tampa etc in order to save money on the airfare not needed.  Those ships had their place in their day, but they have long ago been in my rear view mirror.  And I am a loyalist with 18 cruises out of 35 on Carnival.

With numbers like that, would you consider me a loyalist on Carnival? I’m 15 out of 40.

 

The smaller ports will have to adapt and find a way to accommodate the cruise line or they won’t have a ship for a while. Just because it’s a port of embarkation now, it doesn’t mean it will remain as one.

 

For a while, Princess sailed out of Houston until it was dropped. Carnival already dropped Mobile once. I’m sure Charleston, Norfolk, Mobile, Baltimore, San Francisco or evening San Juan will be okay if they lose a ship for a while. Carnival will do what is best for Carnival... and that’s okay.

Edited July 19, 2020 by xDisconnections

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, xDisconnections said:

With numbers like that, would you consider me a loyalist on Carnival? I’m 15 out of 40.

I would not consider you a Carnival loyalist based on those numbers alone, not to mention your comments on this site. At one point I considered myself a Carnival loyalist, but that is no longer the case. Although I still have more cruises on Carnival than any other cruise line, that will eventually change as I am now an RCI/Celebrity loyalist, although my wife is more of a free agent and willing to cruise on any cruise line except Carnival. 

[xDisconnections]

8 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I would not consider you a Carnival loyalist based on those numbers alone, not to mention your comments on this site. At one point I considered myself a Carnival loyalist, but that is no longer the case. Although I still have more cruises on Carnival than any other cruise line, that will eventually change as I am now an RCI/Celebrity loyalist, although my wife is more of a free agent and willing to cruise on any cruise line except Carnival. 

Gotcha. Once upon a long time ago, it was very different for me and I really loved Carnival.
 

Nowadays, RCI is my preference despite how much I love the Princess product. Royal is just providing an experience that better meets my needs right now.

 

I’m surprised we haven’t heard much movement from the Princess brand with Carnival Corp looking to restructure their ships.

[Radiioman46]

My first was on the Princess "Love Boat" out of Ft Laudedale, We sailed several cruises on Princess after that. Then, we booked a cruise on NCL out of PR, the Sea, which was a small ship probably smaller than the Fantasy class. We sailed on NCL out of Houston for however many years it sailed out of the Houston Cruise Terminal at Morgan's point. Then we sailed on a Greek ship, and our first RC out of Long Beach. Then, we started sailing out of Galveston, and almost 100% Carnival with a few RC's out of Galveston mixed in. We're Platinum on Carnival. We have loved them all. No favorites. Our preference is sailing out of Galveston. We choose the date and times available and cruise on whichever ship gets the closest to that. So, we consider ourselves a "Cruise Loyalist".

 

[BlerkOne]

9 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Have to disagree with you.  Fantasy Class ships are appreciated by two groups, those that like the shorter 3-5 day cruises and those that can drive to Mobile, Jacksonville, Tampa etc in order to save money on the airfare not needed.  Those ships had their place in their day, but they have long ago been in my rear view mirror.  And I am a loyalist with 18 cruises out of 35 on Carnival.

 

San Juan is neither a short cruise nor a mostly drive in crowd. A large percentage of Carnival cruisers are a drive in crowd, however.

 

A loyalist, IMO, is someone who prefers the Carnival brand to other brands and cruises on Carnival by choice. Number of cruises is irrelevant.

[SNJCruisers]

2 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

With numbers like that, would you consider me a loyalist on Carnival? I’m 15 out of 40.

 

29 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

A loyalist, IMO, is someone who prefers the Carnival brand to other brands and cruises on Carnival by choice. Number of cruises is irrelevant.

 I guess then by your definition I used to be a Carnival loyalist but no longer am.  After crunching the numbers, I found out that 16 out of my first 20 cruises were all on Carnival between 1986 and 2011.  Over the last 9 years, only 4 out of 15 have been on Carnival.  My number increased from 18 to 20 on Carnival because my first two were prior to the computer system they have in place and unless you have a credit card statement or embarkation photo, Carnival will not give you credit for those cruises, making my 25th milestone cruise that much less attainable.

 

It irritates me when a Loyal Royal bashes Carnival without ever having cruised on a single Carnival cruise, so a little part of me will always be a Carnival loyalist.  But I took the blinders off back in 2012 and have perused other menus so to speak for new cruise fare.  The bundling of drink packages with your cruise fare that Celebrity started and was copied by NCL has caused me to enjoy 7 great cruises.  The Yacht Club on MSC was a nice diversion and a great value, even though the European flair was a bit too much to handle at times.  The Havana area was the best thing that Carnival has come up with in years and we enjoyed 2 cruises on the Horizon not being bothered by unruly children.

 

At this point we will cruise on the newest and best that the lines have to offer that are sailing the Caribbean, evidenced by our next 3 on the Enchanted (hopefully) the Mardi Gras and the Apex.  Once retirement starts in a few years, then the decisions will be more port related to check off the boxes of my bucket list rather that the ship being the destination which it is at this point.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

12 hours ago, coffeeboy77 said:

Of course, the cruise lines could continue to operate under chapter 11 protection and could operate like this for several years.  Hard to predict what will happen.  I think if they can start up again before January of 21, they will all survive.  A full year of being shut down will probably bring some casualties.

The way the cruise lines are operating now is what you'd see from the just-about-to-lose player in Monopoly:

-- Scrap/sell big chunks of the fleet

-- Mortgage the rest of it

-- Meanwhile, keep up the Ponzi scheme of selling cabins on cruises that will never sail ... and using the deposits to keep the executives' $$ flowing while refundIng a few disappointed customers from three months earlier.

Thanks to gross incompetence by cruise execs and CLIA, the industry is ONLY NOW beginning to get serious about how it will have to adapt to resume operations. 

Could the lawyers & beancounters keep alive some shell corporations through years of bankruptcy? Sure. But those who flew Pan Am in its final years ... and those who've shopped dying department stores in their final months ... know what a disaster that is. The name and logo remain,  but nothing else is like it was: The operation is tired and shoddy, staff morale is wrecked, the overall experience is like a discount funeral.

Any intelligent cruisers who hope to sail again in 2021 should direct their complaints toward the real culprits: the empty suits at CLIA and the failing exec teams at CCL, RCI and NCL.

[Cruiseboy06]

Soon as Cruises return to service Long Beach will have 2 ships, Panorama and the Imagination.   Long Beach will have a high demand still.  I'm thinking maybe they will bring a Conquest ship to the west coast, they can hold 3700 passengers to fill in the the missing demand after a while not right away

[Stick93]

14 hours ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

Soon as Cruises return to service Long Beach will have 2 ships, Panorama and the Imagination.   Long Beach will have a high demand still.  I'm thinking maybe they will bring a Conquest ship to the west coast, they can hold 3700 passengers to fill in the the missing demand after a while not right away

Where will they take a conquest ship from??

You may be left with one very expensively priced ship - at least its will be from the newest!

 

 

[embarkation75]

3 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Where will they take a conquest ship from??

You may be left with one very expensively priced ship - at least its will be from the newest!

 

 

 

Who knows at this point how things will be reshuffled as it's pure speculation at this stage although I'm sure Carnival already has a plan. If the Imagination remains in Long Beach, then likely nothing will happen until Imagination is sent off into retirement down the line.  Between the Miracle in San Diego and Imagination still in Long Beach, that is likely sufficient for the shorter cruise crowd. However, if they move Imagination to say Mobile or push it into salvage, then ports like Miami will likely lose one of their mainly duplicate itinerary ships (Sensation or Conquest) to Long Beach. Technically, Miami could lose Sensation to Mobile even if the Imagination remains in Long Beach. I'm not putting money on anything but the odds of Miami holding on to both of these ships is not great.

[quattrohead]

Judging by the price of those California based cruises, none of them are going to be sailing, apparently no one want's to.

[RD64]

It now appears that CMV in Britain is done. What will happen to the Pacific Aria and Pacific Dawn of P&O (Australia) - a Carnival company - which were scheduled to be sold to CMV?