Just in case anyone had doubts about whom Celebrity are targeting with their "Always Included" &" New Luxury" branding

[basenji56]

osted 4 minutes ago

Cross posting for folks who don’t see what has changed.....

 

 

Summary of changes:

 

Downgrades:

• Removed Priority embarkation
• Removed Access to the Retreat for Zenith
• Removed Senior Officers Party
• Removed the Backstage Tour
• Removed Elegant Tea
• Removed the nightly cocktail party - remaining benefit worthless under Always Included
• Negated value of the daily coffee lounge
• Negated value of the specialty coffee in specialty restaurant
• Negated value of the free specialty coffee package for elite plus
• Negated value of the free internet minutes and discounts
• Removed free fitness class for Elite Plus

Upgrades:

• Improved the spa discount - now multi use
• Increased discounts on photo packages
• Increased the discount on premium wines
• Added "Sneak Peek of Wonder" (only on the Apex)
• Added the "Create and Pour" event (only on Edge class)
• Added discounted $35 dry clean and press package
•  

[UnorigionalName]

29 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Before you start lambasting anyone who prefers to fly to Europe on Business class, know your facts. I am not bragging but making a point. We are flying in May 2021 from San Antonio to Venice RT on Delta Business class for $2760 per person. Our Business class seats in August from SAT to Barcelona and home to SAT from Lisbon are $2300 pp RT. I would never pay 8K per person. So for 4 RT Business class seats we are paying a little over $10K no where near the $50k you quoted. Both Delta flights next year are a little less than $1000 pp over coach or Delta Comfort fares, which is very easy to afford. We booked both also through Celebrity Air and saved a couple hundred dollars over the Delta online pricing. We also booked early when the flights first opened and the prices were the lowest. I will be waiting for your apology.

 

right. soooo...

 

business class is definitely NOT first class.

[markeb]

18 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

right. soooo...

 

business class is definitely NOT first class.

 

Most US based airlines keep renaming their international classes, so it's kind of hard to say...

 

I just looked on Delta, for instance (normally fly United), and they don't show a business class, but their Delta One is pretty much what you see in business in most 2-cabin aircraft these days (or three with whatever terminology they use for premium economy).

 

But, yeah, for those (mostly international) carriers that still have 3-cabin configurations, $8K for true first to Europe is probably about right. And I have no idea what Emirates gets for their suites!

[C-Dragons]

5 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Most US based airlines keep renaming their international classes, so it's kind of hard to say...

 

I just looked on Delta, for instance (normally fly United), and they don't show a business class, but their Delta One is pretty much what you see in business in most 2-cabin aircraft these days (or three with whatever terminology they use for premium economy).

 

But, yeah, for those (mostly international) carriers that still have 3-cabin configurations, $8K for true first to Europe is probably about right. And I have no idea what Emirates gets for their suites!

Delta One is their Business Class product. It is wonderful, and even better than some European Business Class flights that we have taken.

[markeb]

1 minute ago, C-Dragons said:

Delta One is their Business Class product. It is wonderful, and even better than some European Business Class flights that we have taken.

 

That's what I assumed. United has Business First, just to be confusing, although they're going to Polaris as their international premium product. Most of the planes I've been on that were actually configured for Polaris didn't have a first class cabin (had upgrades to burn last year and was going to upgrade just to do it, but they reconfigured both flights and the whole 777 premium cabin was Polaris Business First).

[C-Dragons]

1 minute ago, markeb said:

 

That's what I assumed. United has Business First, just to be confusing, although they're going to Polaris as their international premium product. Most of the planes I've been on that were actually configured for Polaris didn't have a first class cabin (had upgrades to burn last year and was going to upgrade just to do it, but they reconfigured both flights and the whole 777 premium cabin was Polaris Business First).

Yes, reconfiguring aircraft is a trend that is expanding. We were booked last year on BA in First and right after we were ticketed they changed the aircraft to one of the new ones that had Business class only. I called and asked to be changed back to First on a flight departing a few hours later.
They had no problems, since they agreed we had paid for the other class of service. It pays to check the aircraft configurations before booking.

[ChucktownSteve]

3 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

 

I don't think anyone here believes first class travel "any time" we want is available to 99% of posters here..  last time I checked a transatlantic first class tickets goes for 8k per person, traveling that 2x ppl several times a year will set you back a cool 50k a year just in air tickets. No one here has the type of retirement money to blow 50k a year purely on air, no one. 

 

So please ease off on the bragging and gross over generalizations we know when it comes to dollars and real figures peoples claims don't add up.

 

I didn't realize I was a 1%er according to your numbers.  It's all about priorities.  We have  business class flights to Athens next year.  Can do another if we wish but can't find a cruise I want just yet  Our portfolio has a six figure gain each year for the past 12 years at least. What am I going to do?   Leave it to nieces and nephews?  I don't think so!

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

right. soooo...

 

business class is definitely NOT first class.

For most international flights there are no "First" class seats with most carriers, which have been replaced by Business class mostly lay flat seats which may be called different names by the airlines. Delta calls this class Delta One.  When flying Business class any domestic connector flights in the US to the International flight hub are in First class seats. In Europe connector flights by airlines like KLM have no first class seats which are now called European Business class. For example our flights from San Antonio to Venice on Delta. We have  first class seats from SAT to Detroit and then Delta Business class lay flat seats or Delta One, from Detroit to Amsterdam. Then our flights from Amsterdam to Venice are on KLM in their European Business class seats.

 

For mainstream US airlines  like American, Delta, United and non US airlines like Lufthansa, Air France, Air Canada, Iberia and Alitalia, Business Class today is basically the same as first class years ago at least for international flights. British Airways is one of the few airlines that still has A first class cabin plus a Business class cabin, but not on all International routes or aircraft is the first class cabin available. 

[UnorigionalName]

9 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

For most international flights there are no "First" class seats with most carriers, which have been replaced by Business class mostly lay flat seats which may be called different names by the airlines. Delta calls this class Delta One.  When flying Business class any domestic connector flights in the US to the International flight hub are in First class seats. In Europe connector flights by airlines like KLM have no first class seats which are now called European Business class. For example our flights from San Antonio to Venice on Delta. We have  first class seats from SAT to Detroit and then Delta Business class lay flat seats or Delta One, from Detroit to Amsterdam. Then our flights from Amsterdam to Venice are on KLM in their European Business class seats.

 

For mainstream US airlines  like American, Delta, United and non US airlines like Lufthansa, Air France, Air Canada, Iberia and Alitalia, Business Class today is basically the same as first class years ago at least for international flights. British Airways is one of the few airlines that still has A first class cabin plus a Business class cabin, but not on all International routes or aircraft is the first class cabin available. 

 

right, so, one person boasted that they could fly first class everywhere (maybe they were thinking domestic "first class"?)

 

Then someone pointed out, that the amount of people that fly international first-class is super rare, you have to be super rich to afford that past retirement.

 

Then a bunch of people are piping up bragging that they can fly business class, a total non-sequitur.  

 

Like I don't have a horse in this race.  Of course some people that can afford to cruise on an upscale line can afford nice plane tickets, whoop-de-doo. 

 

But please can we keep terminology accurate at least.

 

 

[ChucktownSteve]

1 hour ago, UnorigionalName said:

But please can we keep terminology accurate at least.

 

Tell the airlines that!!! Terrydtx explained it pretty accurately.

When I've flown Delta and their code shares it was First Class in the U.S. and Business Class internationally.  Air Canada just calls it Business Class.   I don't fly much anymore but when I go internationally I need the comfort.

 

Back a while ago, I flew Delta/code share between Paris and Munich.  The Business class was identical to the seats behind it to the back of the plane.  The only difference was a curtain (not even a wall) they pulled across the isle. lol

Edited November 19, 2020 by ChucktownSteve

[MarinerBoy]

7 hours ago, vswan said:

Oh boy, I have to say that I know at least 3 couples in my extended family in a financial situation  to be able to do this. I'm not saying they do this, but they easily could.

 

If someone is retired, has their home and vehicles paid off and no major bills, and have been frugal with their savings this is very possible. Just because someone is retired doesn't mean they don't have income coming in from pensions, investments, rental properties, inheritance, business sales or other sources. If travel is how people spend their savings this is their choice.

 

Are you kidding me, again I don't buy it. You can't seriously believe this, 50k  year on flights? People retire with 1 million in a bank at 5% interest you get 50k paid total a year. You can't spend all of it on just flights..  what about all the 99.99% other spending? Someone who can afford to spend 50k a year on flights must generate 1 million annually on an on going basis. Who here has a pension plan that pays them 1 million a year? To get 1 mill a year at a decent rate of 5% you will need to have 20 million dollars saved. NO ONE has 20 million and goes on cruise ships.

[MarinerBoy]

6 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Before you start lambasting anyone who prefers to fly to Europe on Business class, know your facts. I am not bragging but making a point. We are flying in May 2021 from San Antonio to Venice RT on Delta Business class for $2760 per person. Our Business class seats in August from SAT to Barcelona and home to SAT from Lisbon are $2300 pp RT. I would never pay 8K per person. So for 4 RT Business class seats we are paying a little over $10K no where near the $50k you quoted. Both Delta flights next year are a little less than $1000 pp over coach or Delta Comfort fares, which is very easy to afford. We booked both also through Celebrity Air and saved a couple hundred dollars over the Delta online pricing. We also booked early when the flights first opened and the prices were the lowest. I will be waiting for your apology.

 

Business class is not first class.. first class transatlantic was discussed..  its about 2x to 3x business price and average first class ticket is 8k across the ocean. Cathay Pacific, Singapore airlines, Japan airlines, Lufthansa, Emirates, BA, Etihad, ANA air  just to name a few who fly true First Class.. American based airlines don't come close there is nothing first class about them. Listen if you make 200k a year from your retirement fund and choose to spend all of that traveling thats fine  but that's not rich or well off. You can say your well off if you can travel first class and at top cruise cabins all year and that amounts to 5 to 10% of your annual earnings then you have a case if you are spending 75% of your retirement income on travel you are a paper millionaire.

 

Also, anyone who is "frugal" was cheap then if you been cheap all your life then you won't be doing anything luxury. Cheap people don't fly first class they don't need or care for luxury things. Anyone who been so called frugal all their life will die frugal you don't just magically flip a switch and start spending money when you been hard wired all your life to save.

Edited November 19, 2020 by MarinerBoy

[basenji56]

FCCs are expiring in 13 months.  

 

[Fogfog]

14 hours ago, basenji56 said:

osted 4 minutes ago

Cross posting for folks who don’t see what has changed.....

 

 

Summary of changes:

 

Downgrades:

• Removed Priority embarkation
• Removed Access to the Retreat for Zenith
• Removed Senior Officers Party
• Removed the Backstage Tour
• Removed Elegant Tea
• Removed the nightly cocktail party - remaining benefit worthless under Always Included
• Negated value of the daily coffee lounge
• Negated value of the specialty coffee in specialty restaurant
• Negated value of the free specialty coffee package for elite plus
• Negated value of the free internet minutes and discounts
• Removed free fitness class for Elite Plus

Upgrades:

• Improved the spa discount - now multi use
• Increased discounts on photo packages
• Increased the discount on premium wines
• Added "Sneak Peek of Wonder" (only on the Apex)
• Added the "Create and Pour" event (only on Edge class)
• Added discounted $35 dry clean and press package
•  

 

IS there a link for this?

I'm wondering what Elite gets us anymore

[Bo1953]

18 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

 

I don't think anyone here believes first class travel "any time" we want is available to 99% of posters here..  last time I checked a transatlantic first class tickets goes for 8k per person, traveling that 2x ppl several times a year will set you back a cool 50k a year just in air tickets. No one here has the type of retirement money to blow 50k a year purely on air, no one. 

 

So please ease off on the bragging and gross over generalizations we know when it comes to dollars and real figures peoples claims don't add up.

mb - I can only suggest that your thoughts concerning what 'posters here' can or cannot afford needs a bit of tweaking.

 

As you have or will find out, there are many who can and do and those who can do not. It is not an often posted topic in this Forum, yet in the Airlines Forum this is broached in various ways and approaches.

 

Even if it is believed that one is bragging and over generalizing about such spending in your thoughts, it is most likely best left alone and let them brag, unless you know that it is not quite accurate.

 

For example, we travel First Class on any flight over three (3) hours domestically (US, Canada and the far flung states/territories) and Business Class internationally.

 

As such each of us has our limits and ability to fly as we choose when we choose rather it pertains to cost or comfort or distance.

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

14 hours ago, terrydtx said:

For most international flights there are no "First" class seats with most carriers, which have been replaced by Business class mostly lay flat seats which may be called different names by the airlines. Delta calls this class Delta One.  When flying Business class any domestic connector flights in the US to the International flight hub are in First class seats. In Europe connector flights by airlines like KLM have no first class seats which are now called European Business class. For example our flights from San Antonio to Venice on Delta. We have  first class seats from SAT to Detroit and then Delta Business class lay flat seats or Delta One, from Detroit to Amsterdam. Then our flights from Amsterdam to Venice are on KLM in their European Business class seats.

 

For mainstream US airlines  like American, Delta, United and non US airlines like Lufthansa, Air France, Air Canada, Iberia and Alitalia, Business Class today is basically the same as first class years ago at least for international flights. British Airways is one of the few airlines that still has A first class cabin plus a Business class cabin, but not on all International routes or aircraft is the first class cabin available. 

Not a hill for me to die on, for the most part, yet the following International Passenger Airlines have exclusive First Class Cabins, rather one can or does fly any of these carriers is a very different discussion. We all have our 'preferred carriers' which may or may not offer this exclusive service, then of course we can assert our thoughts on it as such.

 

Japan Airlines, Swiss Int'l, Lufthansa, Qatar Air, Garuda, Air France, Etihad, Cathay Pacific, Emirates and Singapore Air.

 

bon voyage

[C-Dragons]

10 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

 

Business class is not first class.. first class transatlantic was discussed..  its about 2x to 3x business price and average first class ticket is 8k across the ocean. Cathay Pacific, Singapore airlines, Japan airlines, Lufthansa, Emirates, BA, Etihad, ANA air  just to name a few who fly true First Class.. American based airlines don't come close there is nothing first class about them. Listen if you make 200k a year from your retirement fund and choose to spend all of that traveling thats fine  but that's not rich or well off. You can say your well off if you can travel first class and at top cruise cabins all year and that amounts to 5 to 10% of your annual earnings then you have a case if you are spending 75% of your retirement income on travel you are a paper millionaire.

Also, anyone who is "frugal" was cheap then if you been cheap all your life then you won't be doing anything luxury. Cheap people don't fly first class they don't need or care for luxury things. Anyone who been so called frugal all their life will die frugal you don't just magically flip a switch and start spending money when you been hard wired all your life to save.

Delta's Delta One, flying Transatlantic, is probably the closest thing to First class on an American carrier, so it is a valid comparison.

We normally fly First Class across the pond to a connecting flight in Business to our destination. And we do fly foreign carriers with “true first” as you call it. We don’t spend anywhere near what you are suggesting and we’re not the only savvy travelers who do.

Your analogy that being “frugal” equates to being “cheap” and that people who live that way won’t ever spend their money on “luxury” is completely off the mark. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by C-Dragons

[TeeRick]

11 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

 

Are you kidding me, again I don't buy it. You can't seriously believe this, 50k  year on flights? People retire with 1 million in a bank at 5% interest you get 50k paid total a year. You can't spend all of it on just flights..  what about all the 99.99% other spending? Someone who can afford to spend 50k a year on flights must generate 1 million annually on an on going basis. Who here has a pension plan that pays them 1 million a year? To get 1 mill a year at a decent rate of 5% you will need to have 20 million dollars saved. NO ONE has 20 million and goes on cruise ships.

You are presuming to much here about other people's situations, finances and preferences.  And vacations. Honestly-Why do you care?

[vswan]

11 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

Are you kidding me, again I don't buy it. You can't seriously believe this, 50k  year on flights? People retire with 1 million in a bank at 5% interest you get 50k paid total a year. You can't spend all of it on just flights..  what about all the 99.99% other spending? Someone who can afford to spend 50k a year on flights must generate 1 million annually on an on going basis. Who here has a pension plan that pays them 1 million a year? To get 1 mill a year at a decent rate of 5% you will need to have 20 million dollars saved. NO ONE has 20 million and goes on cruise ships.

Your math is wrong. Using your own figures if you have $1 million in savings at 5% interest you would get the 50K to spend on flights - not saying that is the cost. If you only have minor bills you do not need $950 thousand to spend on other things per year. Pensions and other income could easily cover your yearly needs - and if they don't you take a small portion of that million and use it as needed. We are talking about a group of people who have saved for their retirement and have a limited lifespan. They planned for travel spending and if they can afford to spend 50k per year on flights that is their choice.

 

 

[Roz]

Who cares how other people spend their money?

[Spif Barwunkel]

Is there really a need to defend income, spending habits, travel arrangements and most of all age to one another. I think not. I'm just a smidgen older than boomers, as defined by current numbers. Whereas some might think I have become irrelevant, I would beg to differ. I don't apologize for growing older, because sooner or later everyone will be where I am and I will be, well, somewhere else. 

 

In the United States you must 18 to vote and 21 to drink. Until Celebrity posts a notice on their website that reads "you must be less than 50 years of age to apply for passage", I'll disregard any advertising or changes in methods of operation. If the product continues to satisfy, I'll get on the boat. 

 

In the meantime let's not quibble over the little things. Those who look to make ones income or resources a part of the conversation are exhibiting their own lack of self-confidence and monetary credence. No need to get caught up in that.

[basenji56]

2 minutes ago, Roz said:

Who cares how other people spend their money?

Who knows how long any of us have to live?  Enjoy your life while you still have it.

 

[cantstopingcruising]

Please advise where you can get 5% on your million dollars

[Orator]

2 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Please advise where you can get 5% on your million dollars

T stock pays 7.27%.😁

[spencerdrivecruiser]

PFN pays 10.56%