Mandatory vaccination

[CILCIANRQTS]

46 minutes ago, moto_italia said:

So @armwinderasked in the original post if we thought other cruise lines would follow the example of Crystal and require a Covid vaccine of all guests.

I know you all join me in hoping the next 424 responses are as on-point, helpful and respectful as the last 424. 😝  🙄   😷

 

You mean the junior epidemiologists have resolved the issue??!!

YIPPEEEE!!!! 

[hallux]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

When you insist others wear a mask to protect you, then you are the me, me, me. Take personal responsibility and wear a mask, two if you think wearing one yourself isn't enough.  How is it that one can believe that a mask someone else wears protects you but the one you wear won't? 

 

When someone has completed the vaccination protocol, two shots, then that person has fulfilled their responsibilities to others.

 

I'll reiterate - until there is SOLID information pointing to vaccinated individuals being unable to spread the virus, masks should still be worn by all including those that are vaccinated.  If not - how am I, an unvaccinated person, to know that the mask-less person standing next to me in the aisle at the supermarket is not just someone taking advantage of the relaxed request for vaccinated people?

 

And, yes, taking the "I'm vaccinated, I have a low risk of severe infection so I don't need a mask" stance IS being selfish because fo the above.  As of now we can't assume that a vaccinated person poses no risk of transmission to an unvaccinated person and the double protection of masks on both parties is still useful.

[toocruisin2]

3 hours ago, gizfish said:

The wording is something to the effect of if you are "fully vaccinated" within 90 days of your travel, you are exempt from the restrictions.  There is no mention of waiting the 2 weeks after last dose to be "fully" immune.  So once the 90 days expire, you have to follow the restrictions.  The 90 day thing is likely to change, and at this point I think few if anyone would even be at that point yet.

Thanks gizfish for a fuller explanation of Cuomo's action. 👍

 

Here's a link to an article that I found, although the two-week period for the vaccine to be "fully effective" is not mentioned. The CDC guidelines are based upon exposure to covid once vaccinated, as opposed to traveling while vaccinated (during which time you may or may not have been exposed).

 

My hope is that the 90 day exemption is a first step until further data is available on the persistency of the vaccine defending against covid; if the infection rate for those fully vaccinated stays within the range of the clinical trials for more than 90 days, the CDC may be inclined to increase the time frame of exemption. 

 

For me the message is that the CDC and NYS is treating vaccinated people differently than un-vaccinated people, and I see that as an acknowledgment that officials are taking a bifurcated view regarding travel restrictions. 

 

Regarding international travelers, the term is not fully defined; I can see why the CDC and NYS wouldn't want foreign nationals coming to the US to have an exemption because we can't independently verify whether the traveler was actually fully vaccinated. For US Citizens who travel abroad and return after full vaccination in the US, it really doesn't make any sense to have harsher restrictions; the vaccine either works or it doesn't. 

 

Finally, if a sufficient number of people are vaccinated, and stay free of the virus for 90 days after full vaccination, the spread should slow significantly, meaning even unprotected people will be less likely to contract covid. That will be better for all of us.

 

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/new-york-state-announces-new-covid-19-travel-guidelines-fully-vaccinated-individuals

[CILCIANRQTS]

3 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

 

You mean the junior epidemiologists have resolved the issue??!!

YIPPEEEE!!!! 

 

Guess not!!

Another 6 weeks of zero sum Winter!!! ❄️😖😷

[Trimone]

Bahrain opening up for Grand Prix with both vaccinations:

The season-opening Grand Prix in Bahrain looks set to play out in front of fans, with the circuit confirming that individuals who can prove they are either fully vaccinated against Covid-19 or Covid-recovered can purchase tickets for the event.
In 2020, both the Bahrain Grand Prix and the following Sakhir Grand Prix, which took place on the outer loop, took place without fans in the grandstands.
This year, tickets will be available for both the Main Grandstand and Turn 1 Grandstand.
Entry will only be granted to ticket holders on presentation of a badge that proves either full vaccination against Covid-19 (two weeks have passed since second dose of vaccine) or recovery from the virus (two weeks have passed since date of infection).

[wdsted]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:57 PM, Stick93 said:

It will be interesting to see if a large portion of people don’t get vaccinated and don’t care to cruise where these businesses thing their money will come from. Don’t care to argue about the vaccine, just a point of if they cannot fill ships will this impact what they will do. Whether one agrees or not many will not take this vaccine regardless of what restrictions are put on them. 

Perhaps, they'll run fewer cruises and focus on destinations that will fill up due to popularity or easy access.  Caribbean and Alaskan cruises, for example.  They could put additional ships into service if/when the virus is under control or we achieve "herd immunity."  

[zerooveride]

Just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. It actually kinda hurt a little bit. Pretty big needle too. 11th of April will be my second dose + 2 weeks. Let's get these ships sailing!

[DCGuy64]

So now the CDC says vaccinated people don't have to wear masks. One wonders if the "masks at all time for everybody" crowd will continue to say "Follow the CDC" after this.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-can-gather-in-small-groups-without-masks-11615219222

For the record, I don't believe in forcing others to do something in order to make ME feel safer.

There's an expression that says "your rights end at my nose." And another that says "if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile." I don't like mask mandates one bit, but I've been willing to put up with them while the numbers were rising. Now that they're declining and more people are getting vaccinated every day, the mandates make less and less sense. Those who continue to demand they stay in place are basically admitting that they enjoy having power over others. That's the real problem.

[DCGuy64]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:38 PM, RocketMan275 said:

When you insist others wear a mask to protect you, then you are the me, me, me. Take personal responsibility and wear a mask, two if you think wearing one yourself isn't enough.  How is it that one can believe that a mask someone else wears protects you but the one you wear won't? 

 

When someone has completed the vaccination protocol, two shots, then that person has fulfilled their responsibilities to others.

 

Exactly. I'm just about done with people and their virtual signaling "I care about others, you don't."

Please. These are the same people who will cut in line, swerve around a car and change lanes just to save themselves 5 seconds in traffic, who will take 15 pcs of bacon at the buffet, or hog chairs by the pool (yes, I said it). To a large extent, human beings are selfish creatures. Those who pretend they're not, are just lying.

I was thrilled when Texas Gov Greg Abbott repealed the statewide mask mandate. It's the beginning of the end for the finger-wagging virtue signalers, and about time, too!

 

[Bear Down]

15 hours ago, zerooveride said:

Just got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. It actually kinda hurt a little bit. Pretty big needle too. 11th of April will be my second dose + 2 weeks. Let's get these ships sailing!

I got my first Pfizer vaccine 3 days ago and didn't feel a thing. I've had no sore arm and no symptoms at all. It affects everybody differently. I've known people that missed work with a fever, headache and the chills. Good luck with a symptom free second shot.

[boscobeans]

7 minutes ago, Bear Down said:

I got my first Pfizer vaccine 3 days ago and didn't feel a thing. I've had no sore arm and no symptoms at all. It affects everybody differently. I've known people that missed work with a fever, headache and the chills. Good luck with a symptom free second shot.

Second Pfizer made me a little achy.. Nothing more..

 

You may find the following VERY INTERESTING..

 

NEW C.D.C. RULES as of RIGHT NOW..

If you’ve been fully vaccinated:

You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask.

You can gather indoors with unvaccinated people from one other household (for example, visiting with relatives who all live together) without masks, unless any of those people or anyone they live with has an increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

If you’ve been around someone who has COVID-19, you do not need to stay away from others or get tested unless you have symptoms.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------

By Fully Vaccinated they mean 2 weeks after the second dose of Pfizer or Moderna,  or 2 weeks after the Jansen single dose.

 

They also said no need for masks among vaccinated adults and low-risk groups (like children)

[JamieLogical]

29 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

So now the CDC says vaccinated people don't have to wear masks. One wonders if the "masks at all time for everybody" crowd will continue to say "Follow the CDC" after this.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-can-gather-in-small-groups-without-masks-11615219222

For the record, I don't believe in forcing others to do something in order to make ME feel safer.

There's an expression that says "your rights end at my nose." And another that says "if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile." I don't like mask mandates one bit, but I've been willing to put up with them while the numbers were rising. Now that they're declining and more people are getting vaccinated every day, the mandates make less and less sense. Those who continue to demand they stay in place are basically admitting that they enjoy having power over others. That's the real problem.

 

The CDC guidance says specifically that vaccinated people should still:

"Wear a mask and keep good physical distance around the unvaccinated who are at increased risk for severe Covid-19, or if the unvaccinated person has a household member who is at higher risk"

 

and 

 

"Wear masks and physically distance when visiting unvaccinated people who are from multiple households."

 

But I do see light at the end of the tunnel for masks. I think it is still too early with less than 10% of the US population fully vaccinated right now. But once we hit that coveted 70-75% range, masks should no longer be required in most situations.

Edited March 8, 2021 by JamieLogical

[GonzoWCS]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:20 AM, denatravels said:

I agree that vaccines should be mandatory for adults but you can’t make vaccines mandatory for kids when they have not even been studied. 

Does this mean zero kids on cruises for a short time?

[DCGuy64]

20 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

The CDC guidance says specifically that vaccinated people should still:

"Wear a mask and keep good physical distance around the unvaccinated who are at increased risk for severe Covid-19, or if the unvaccinated person has a household member who is at higher risk"

 

and 

 

"Wear masks and physically distance when visiting unvaccinated people who are from multiple households."

 

But I do see light at the end of the tunnel for masks. I think it is still too early with less than 10% of the US population fully vaccinated right now. But once we hit that coveted 70-75% range, masks should no longer be required in most situations.

Yes, I read the whole article and am aware of the specifics, I only meant to share the link so people could see that even the CDC acknowledges that vaccination is a good step towards ending the mask mandates. They may continue to recommend mask wearing, but that's not the same as an outright mandate.

[hallux]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yes, I read the whole article and am aware of the specifics

 

Were you really?

49 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

So now the CDC says vaccinated people don't have to wear masks. One wonders if the "masks at all time for everybody" crowd will continue to say "Follow the CDC" after this.

 

That reads like you were saying that fully vaccinated people could not bother with a mask.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, hallux said:

 

Were you really?

 

That reads like you were saying that fully vaccinated people could not bother with a mask.

Right, they don't HAVE to, as in, it's not compulsory, just recommended.

Sounds like you might need to re-read what I wrote. Or better yet, re-read the article so you know what it says. 😉

 

 

[moto_italia]

7 minutes ago, GonzoWCS said:

Does this mean zero kids on cruises for a short time?

One can only hope 🙉

[JamieLogical]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Right, they don't HAVE to, as in, it's not compulsory, just recommended.

Sounds like you might need to re-read what I wrote. Or better yet, re-read the article so you know what it says. 😉

 

 

 

The CDC never had the power to *mandate* masks. They have always only ever made recommendations... 

[GonzoWCS]

7 minutes ago, moto_italia said:

One can only hope 🙉

💣🙈

[brovol]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:38 AM, ziggyuk said:

 

This attitude from some is the very reason the west can't control the virus, too many people are selfish, have no consideration for others and are only concerned with themselves & their benefits.

In East Asia the moment anyone feels ill they put a mask on to protect other, the first consideration is to protect others, no self, self, self.

 

It's strange that everyone and their dog has an excuse why they are exempt from mask wearing, they buy lanyards on eBay and claim they can't breath with a mask, yet in East Asia you won't find anyone without a mask (including children).

This self-entitled, me, me, me attitude is the disease of the West.

Pot meet kettle! 

 

If folks are among the group (elderly/unhealthy) which is actually vulnerable to serious problems secondary to covid-19, and wish to take full precautions to "be safe", then take whatever precautions you want in order to "feel safe", including but not limited to living your life in a bubble.  The rest of us will do the same, and by that I mean we will exercise self responsibility and judgement, making whatever choice we care to make; including not wearing a mask.  This concept is called "equity" or "liberty", and is the very definition of "fairness".

 

It is obnoxiously "selfish" to expect the government to impose restrictions like mask mandates on people who don't wish to wear one.  It is like expecting the laws to be changed to make driving a vehicle illegal for everyone because YOU personally think cars are too dangerous, and prefer walking.  This is particularly true in the case of covid-19 restrictions, when the clear and overwhelming "data" establishes the great weight of risk is with people over 70, and those with premorbid conditions; both groups who can be provided special precautions without stifling life, liberty and the economic wherewithal of everyone else.

 

It amazes me how the mask-police-state folks stand on a stump, and in such a self-righteous way, preach moral superiority, all while acting as if they were a communist dictator ready to throw another "non-elite" to the Gulag for challenging the logic or wisdom of their latest imposition.  How about instead, you spend a few hours without digesting the MSM spin, and actually think independently about the distinctions between fact and fiction, and right versus wrong. 

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

The CDC never had the power to *mandate* masks. They have always only ever made recommendations... 

The Governor of my state (Virginia) DID and does quote the CDC's recommendations regarding masks when issuing statewide mandates. The CDC may not have the power to mandate them, but plenty of officials who do have that power, relied on the CDC's info and recommendations.

[RocketMan275]

50 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Second Pfizer made me a little achy.. Nothing more..

 

You may find the following VERY INTERESTING..

 

NEW C.D.C. RULES as of RIGHT NOW..

 

The CDC may refer to those as "Rules" but they are only "recommendations".  The CDC has no power to enforce "Rules".

[JamieLogical]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

The Governor of my state (Virginia) DID and does quote the CDC's recommendations regarding masks when issuing statewide mandates. The CDC may not have the power to mandate them, but plenty of officials who do have that power, relied on the CDC's info and recommendations.

 

Right, and your governor or local officials may continue to do the same with these new recommendations, which clearly indicate that wearing masks in mixed company is still recommended. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by JamieLogical

[hallux]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Right, they don't HAVE to, as in, it's not compulsory, just recommended.

Sounds like you might need to re-read what I wrote. Or better yet, re-read the article so you know what it says. 😉

 

 

Your statement that I quoted was incomplete then.  Fully vaccinated people gathering with fully vaccinated people may do so without masks.  They still may be asked to wear masks by businesses and other entities.

 

In the portion of your precious article that I can read, there is this passage to support my argument - 

The CDC said Monday that fully vaccinated people should continue to take precautions in most circumstances to prevent the spread of the virus that causes Covid-19. People who are fully immunized should continue to wear masks and keep their distance from others in public or while visiting unvaccinated people at higher risk for severe cases of Covid-19, the CDC said.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Right, and your governor or local officials may continue to do the same with these new recommendations, which clearly indicate that wearing masks in mixed company is still recommended. 

Yep, total agreement with you. 👍

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/health/covid-19-vaccine-cdc-guidelines-fully-vaccinated/index.html

I particularly like the line about fully vaccinated people being able to visit other fully vaccinated people without masks or social distancing (emphasis mine). This is a far cry from last year's guidance, and I would argue shows that things are improving. I highly doubt the CDC would have included language like that which I reference above if things weren't on a positive trajectory. Clearly, they are.

My wife and I are about to visit my dad in Florida and I'm not wearing a mask around him. He's been vaccinated and I've recovered, so no need. It's no one else's business but ours.