Wee bit of Alaska 2021 out of Seattle news

[Horizon chaser 1957]

2 hours ago, Hflors said:

You misunderstand.  We have people from all over here in Florida.  We don't ban people because of what we think might happen.  My original post was referring to Canada allowing their citizens to travel to another country to enjoy themselves, but banning citizens from other countries from entering their country to enjoy themselves.  If Canada's borders are closed shouldn't they be closed both ways?  

This is largely because our government restrictions amount to suggestions rather than laws, and rely on the honour system. Predictably, this does not actually work. Canadians are not supposed to be travelling out of the country right now, but there’s no actual penalty for doing so. And then all the stories broke of Members of Parliament and provincial legislatures vacationing abroad in spite of the toothless restrictions they themselves put in place for,the common folk. Immediately droves of snowbirds flew south like water through a broken dam. And yes, the borders are closed both ways, but only if you drive and aren’t hunting for ways to cheat the system.

[iancal]

US legislators have the power to change their legislation.  Just as the Canadian Government has the power to change their regulations at some point.

 

Americans might be better off  looking to their own Government to make the changes necessary to facilitate Alaska cruises.

Edited April 25, 2021 by iancal

[Boatdrill]

12 hours ago, OmarOak said:

Not sure what anyone talking of the unrest in Seattle is referring to.

 

Please see this article from the Seattle Times, covering a March 13, 2021 incident involving extensive property damage, and police assaulted with rocks.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-make-arrests-amid-downtown-seattle-march/

Edited April 25, 2021 by Boatdrill

[Aquahound]

13 hours ago, OmarOak said:

Far too much media blowing up minor protests into major issues. Likewise in my home city of Portland. Fear mongering sensationalized by some in the media with a bias against the issues that led to protests.

 

Minor protests?  I have to respond to this.  This post is very far from factually correct.  I work in Seattle and I travel frequently to Portland.  I witnessed some of these riots and I've seen the property damage including the $2million damage done to the courthouse in Portland.  The coverage of these riots was NOT media sensationalism.  If anything, the media didn't portray ENOUGH how much these riots destroyed people's properties and livelihoods. 

 

Hundreds of police officers have quit in both cities, and they have decriminalized many crimes committed by homeless.  Local officials are not doing their jobs and are not doing enough to protect citizens and visitors.  I'm sorry to say that as WA resident who works in Seattle; until they reverse course on this dangerous path, I do not recommend Seattle or Portland as a tourist destination.

[idiebabe]

16 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Minor protests?  I have to respond to this.  This post is very far from factually correct.  I work in Seattle and I travel frequently to Portland.  I witnessed some of these riots and I've seen the property damage including the $2million damage done to the courthouse in Portland.  The coverage of these riots was NOT media sensationalism.  If anything, the media didn't portray ENOUGH how much these riots destroyed people's properties and livelihoods. 

 

Hundreds of police officers have quit in both cities, and they have decriminalized many crimes committed by homeless.  Local officials are not doing their jobs and are not doing enough to protect citizens and visitors.  I'm sorry to say that as WA resident who works in Seattle; until they reverse course on this dangerous path, I do not recommend Seattle or Portland as a tourist destination.

I have a friend who lives across from Seattle and I'm hearing the same from her. 😢  You're right only a few MSM outlets are accurately reporting what is happening and too many of them are either playing it down as "Innocent Protests"  or barely covering it.  I'm afraid Journalism is dead and has been replaced by "Political Narratives"!

 

 

[Wish it were cruise time]

We were rescheduled on an Alaska cruise for July of this year, Holland pushed back the final payment date, but we cancelled anyway. I was disappointed in the communication from Holland (none) and I was not comfortable making a final payment and having Holland have the entire payment until next year when we could possible sail. I think if they had been more forthcoming with information we might have made a different decision, and I do not think it is reasonable to expect Canada to change their rules to allow us the privilege of sailing in their waters and docking at their ports. I also think the CDC has unfairly targeted the cruise industry and is not really working with them to get cruising up and going again.

We have decided that we will still be touring Alaska, without a cruise ship. Alaska is open and hoping people will visit.

[OmarOak]

9 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Minor protests?  I have to respond to this.  This post is very far from factually correct.  I work in Seattle and I travel frequently to Portland.  I witnessed some of these riots and I've seen the property damage including the $2million damage done to the courthouse in Portland.  The coverage of these riots was NOT media sensationalism.  If anything, the media didn't portray ENOUGH how much these riots destroyed people's properties and livelihoods. 

 

Hundreds of police officers have quit in both cities, and they have decriminalized many crimes committed by homeless.  Local officials are not doing their jobs and are not doing enough to protect citizens and visitors.  I'm sorry to say that as WA resident who works in Seattle; until they reverse course on this dangerous path, I do not recommend Seattle or Portland as a tourist destination.

I live and own 3 businesses located in downtown Portland. This is utter nonsense. Absolutely not true.

 

Protests have been primarily in a 4 square block area and have been peaceful for months. 

 

 

[OmarOak]

11 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

 

Please see this article from the Seattle Times, covering a March 13, 2021 incident involving extensive property damage, and police assaulted with rocks.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-make-arrests-amid-downtown-seattle-march/

6 weeks ago....Last night, absolutely nothing. Peaceful and quite enjoyable. 

[OmarOak]

18 hours ago, idiebabe said:

I have a friend who lives across from Seattle and I'm hearing the same from her. 😢  You're right only a few MSM outlets are accurately reporting what is happening and too many of them are either playing it down as "Innocent Protests"  or barely covering it.  I'm afraid Journalism is dead and has been replaced by "Political Narratives"!

 

 

Sorry, but this post is a false "Political Narrative". Just because you don't like reporting doesn't make it inaccurate.

[PROCRUISE]

I guess considering that Senator Patty Murray (D-Wash) objected and prevented passage of the "Conditional Sail Order" in the Senate, no reason to further guess

 about Alaskan cruises or maybe any other cruises this summer, or even this year.

Edited April 26, 2021 by PROCRUISE

[HAL4NOW]

8 hours ago, OmarOak said:

I live and own 3 businesses located in downtown Portland. This is utter nonsense. Absolutely not true.

 

Protests have been primarily in a 4 square block area and have been peaceful for months. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, OmarOak said:

6 weeks ago....Last night, absolutely nothing. Peaceful and quite enjoyable. 

 

8 minutes ago, OmarOak said:

Sorry, but this post is a false "Political Narrative". Just because you don't like reporting doesn't make it inaccurate.

@OmarOak Is it possible that both narratives have some truth? Daytime protests in both Seattle and Portland have been mostly peaceful and purposeful. Most night time protests have also been focused and directed at an agenda. But, in both Portland and Seattle, looting and violence have played a part in what is happening on the streets. It does appear that the extent of reporting changes based on the media outlets narrative desires, but both peaceful demonstrations and riots have taken place over the past year plus.

I like to take beach walks, but I look at the tide tables to determine when it is safe and when it is not safe to walk on a certain beach. I err on the side of caution. If king tides and sneaker waves are likely, I am less likely to venture onto the beach; I will walk on a trail above the beach. 

I wish there was a better predictability-table for when protests are about to spill over into violence and looting.   

[cruisingrob21]

Hypothetically, assuming best case scenario of all government (US and CA) green lights, haven't the cruise lines said it will take a minimum of 60 days to get ships positioned, wet docked (lots of the ships need at least some external TLC), re-crewed (even if just for 50% capacity), and fully provisioned.

 

And then there is the shore side component of having all the tour operators in Alaska, Seattle, and Vancouver staffed up since I'm guessing many have either laid off or re-assigned staff to other areas.  Also there are all the port agents which I'm sure there will need to be some re-hires and like any job in the US or CA that takes time.

 

Lots of other logistical challenges, and I just don't see Alaska happening this summer if the cruise lines can only run at partial capacity for part of the summer.

[Boatdrill]

18 hours ago, OmarOak said:

6 weeks ago....Last night, absolutely nothing. Peaceful and quite enjoyable. 

I'm sincerely happy to know that your recent experience in downtown went well. 

Seattle is a beautiful city, and I have always enjoyed my visits there.  

However, the randomness of violent protests in the downtown tourist and business districts

is troublesome for me. 

Aquahound summed it up well: "I'm sorry to say that as WA resident who works in Seattle; until they [local officials] reverse course on this dangerous path, I do not recommend Seattle or Portland as a tourist destination."

 

 

[nocl]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:48 AM, Aquahound said:

 

Minor protests?  I have to respond to this.  This post is very far from factually correct.  I work in Seattle and I travel frequently to Portland.  I witnessed some of these riots and I've seen the property damage including the $2million damage done to the courthouse in Portland.  The coverage of these riots was NOT media sensationalism.  If anything, the media didn't portray ENOUGH how much these riots destroyed people's properties and livelihoods. 

 

Hundreds of police officers have quit in both cities, and they have decriminalized many crimes committed by homeless.  Local officials are not doing their jobs and are not doing enough to protect citizens and visitors.  I'm sorry to say that as WA resident who works in Seattle; until they reverse course on this dangerous path, I do not recommend Seattle or Portland as a tourist destination.

I must confess that three of my favorite cities to visit used to be San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. All three are pretty much off my travel list in general due to the same problems.  The cities have stopped enforcing laws where the "homeless" (a term that basically applies to not only true homeless but a number of others involved in drug and non-violent crime) are concerned.  As a result smash and grab type thefts are rampant in San Francisco.  A friend of mine had his car window smashed while he was checking into a hotel.  He reported it to the hotel and they kind of shrugged.  He reported it to the SF police and they basically said they would take the report but why bother.  Even if they caught the person he would not be prosecuted.

 

On my last trip to Seattle the area between Grand Hyatt and Pikes Market was getting a bit sketchy.  The hotel suggested not walking outside after dark.  Saw two fights along the street between apparent homeless.  Had three homeless blocking access to the public restrooms in Pike Market area unless you paid them.  No thanks.

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by nocl

[rkacruiser]

12 minutes ago, nocl said:

"homeless"

 

Inform me of an urban area that does not have these people.  

 

It is a societal issue that has been "swept under the rug" for years; maybe decades.  Many "tsk-tsk"; throw minor amounts of $$ locally to help "solve" the issue.  Yet, it does not get solved.  The issue, like a malignant cancer, keeps growing.  

 

Being without a home does not become real until it happens to you.  I know.  I have been there.  Standing outside your totally destroyed home as it burns to the ground:  the realization is:  I am homeless.  

 

I was lucky.  The Red Cross provided the needed aid I needed that next morning.   I had insurance.  I had friends who provided me a place to live for many months.  I had my job.  

 

If one does not have such,   imagine what these people must feel?  

 

Those who are homeless--for whatever reason--remain God's children.  Our society has not invested the energy, efforts, or resources needed to try to alleviate the plight of these people.  Wasn't it Jesus Christ who said:  "the poor will always be with us"?  I don't think he then said:  "ignore them."  

 

 

[nocl]

50 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Inform me of an urban area that does not have these people.  

 

It is a societal issue that has been "swept under the rug" for years; maybe decades.  Many "tsk-tsk"; throw minor amounts of $$ locally to help "solve" the issue.  Yet, it does not get solved.  The issue, like a malignant cancer, keeps growing.  

 

Being without a home does not become real until it happens to you.  I know.  I have been there.  Standing outside your totally destroyed home as it burns to the ground:  the realization is:  I am homeless.  

 

I was lucky.  The Red Cross provided the needed aid I needed that next morning.   I had insurance.  I had friends who provided me a place to live for many months.  I had my job.  

 

If one does not have such,   imagine what these people must feel?  

 

Those who are homeless--for whatever reason--remain God's children.  Our society has not invested the energy, efforts, or resources needed to try to alleviate the plight of these people.  Wasn't it Jesus Christ who said:  "the poor will always be with us"?  I don't think he then said:  "ignore them."  

 

 

I use the term "homeless" because that is the way the cities describe them.  However, many are not homeless in terms of trying to find a home. Those that had bad circumstances that left them unable to find shelter.  

 

For some it is a life style.  For some it is due to drug abuse.  For others it is mental illness.

 

Yes they are present in cities.  But most cities continue to enforce laws such as drunk and disorderly, theft, vandalism, etc.  San Francisco, Seattle and Portland largely do not.  There have intentionally taken the view point of not to prosecute many crimes committed by the "homeless" group. The action they have taken has not done anything to resolve the problems of the homeless.  If anything it has made many of the problems worse.  People that use to contribute to charities that support the homeless have stopped giving because of the problems caused.  The crime rates have climbed.  Because theft and other "non-violent" crimes are not prosecuted it has attracted those that see that as a benefit.

 

You might think that it is fine, but as a place to visit, no thanks.

[HAL4NOW]

@rkacruiser  @nocl  One of the local Seattle TV stations did a documentary a couple years ago called, "Seattle is Dying." Conditions in Seattle have only gotten worse in the past two years (IMHO).

Here is the link for part 1: Seattle is Dying | A KOMO News Documentary - YouTube

Here is the link for part 2: Seattle is Dying | A KOMO News Documentary - YouTube

 

If you are willing to invest a couple hours in prayer for the Emerald City, take the time to watch.

I believe Seattle could change for the better; unfortunately, it hasn't made positive changes recently.

[cruisingrob21]

This thread has gotten way off topic.  

 

The Norwegian Sun is parked in Portland drydock currently.  Interesting that she is there.  I believe Oceania has a ship in warm layup in Astoria, OR as well.  I find it curious that the Sun would drydock here in the PNW, and even more curious since so many lines are holding off on drydocks currently.  Perhaps they are anticipating a rush to drydock vessels as fleets restart?  

 

If the Sun were being positioned to kickstart NCL on the west coast when cruising is allowed, she might be too small to sail at a profit for NCL if capacity is reduced.  If I recall, of the big three cruise groups, NCL makes the larger share of it's profit on on-board expenses.

[DaveOKC]

22 hours ago, cruisingrob21 said:

Hypothetically, assuming best case scenario of all government (US and CA) green lights, haven't the cruise lines said it will take a minimum of 60 days to get ships positioned, wet docked (lots of the ships need at least some external TLC), re-crewed (even if just for 50% capacity), and fully provisioned.

 

And then there is the shore side component of having all the tour operators in Alaska, Seattle, and Vancouver staffed up since I'm guessing many have either laid off or re-assigned staff to other areas.  Also there are all the port agents which I'm sure there will need to be some re-hires and like any job in the US or CA that takes time.

 

Lots of other logistical challenges, and I just don't see Alaska happening this summer if the cruise lines can only run at partial capacity for part of the summer.

Agree that a partial season can be very difficult for a cruiseline to pull off.  Too many startup costs involved that need to be covered by too few sailings.  Key here is the peak season (June to mid-August as I recall).  Once you miss most of that it will be tough and I bet the lines will pass on AK for this year.  Remember, the peak parts of any seasonal destination is where the money is normally made.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by DaveOKC

[Himself]

58 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Agree that a partial season can be very difficult for a cruiseline to pull off.  Too many startup costs involved that need to be covered by too few sailings.  Key here is the peak season (June to mid-August as I recall).  Once you miss most of that it will be tough and I bet the lines will pass on AK for this year.  Remember, the peak parts of any seasonal destination is where the money is normally made.

 

Dave, I hope you are wrong BUT I believe you are right on.

[T8NCruise]

1 hour ago, DaveOKC said:

Agree that a partial season can be very difficult for a cruiseline to pull off.  Too many startup costs involved that need to be covered by too few sailings.  Key here is the peak season (June to mid-August as I recall).  Once you miss most of that it will be tough and I bet the lines will pass on AK for this year.  Remember, the peak parts of any seasonal destination is where the money is normally made.

 

I believe you are right.  The enormity of getting set up for a partial season doesn't make economical sense, let alone getting crews and port staff up and running and with all the additional health requirements that will be needed.  

[cruisingrob21]

I think HAL and Princess are waiting to cancel/shift bookings until we get much closer so that a) more people will cancel their final bookings around the final payment deadline so the lines don't have to give fairly generous FCC credits and b) more people will book alaska in 22 at current rates which are pretty high.

[echoshipmate]

On 4/24/2021 at 6:11 AM, Hlitner said:

Just sharing some of my own travel/cruising philosophy.  We live in strange times and those who travel and want to continue to travel need to adapt to the circumstances on the ground.  When it comes to Alaska cruises you are fighting  the Canadian government and the CDC, both of whom seem hell bent on keeping cruises shut down!  There is no reason to expect one or both of those entities to suddenly reverse course and allow cruising.  It is also difficult to get excited about the possibility of some overpriced limited 7 day Caribbean cruises during the summer.   So my philosophy (and that of several cruise lines) is to look around the world for opportunities.  At the moment that means Greece and possibly Croatia. Unlike the US/Canadian governments, the government of Greece is hell bent on getting their country open and is also reaching out to cruise lines to "come on in."   Several airlines (including Delta) are also adding new flights to Greece.  So, if you want to travel this summer Greece should probably be very high on your list.  An alternative to those who want to cruise closer to home are going to be the multitude of cruises embarking from non-US owned Caribbean ports such as the Bahamas, St Maarten, and Barbados.    Otherwise you can sit at or near home and continue to speculate when something positive will happen with the US and/or Canadian governments.  

 

Speaking of Canada, we just heard from some good Canadian friends who normally live in Puerto Vallarta in the winter and in Calgary during the Spring/Summer.  They are not planning on returning to Canada any time soon since in Mexico, everything is open and life goes on in a relatively normal way.  Back home they would have to deal with quarantine, closures, etc.  Another tale of folks who are simply adapting to current conditions so they can continue to live their free life without being held down by the heavy hand of a few government officials.

 

Hank

 

 

Hello Hank,

On a completely different topic, we are interested a getting info on a Puerto Vallarta rental, as I have read some posts if yours while there. If you could contact me, it would be nice to get some advice/ direction. Feel free to contact me here on CC, or email me at echolakegames at gmail.com.  Thanks in advance.

Doug

[Boatdrill]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:18 PM, nocl said:

I must confess that three of my favorite cities to visit used to be San Francisco, Portland and Seattle. All three are pretty much off my travel list in general due to the same problems. 

 

Just curious....would you avoid sailing on a cruise from San Francisco ?  Has the Embarcadero area been affected ? 

 

 

[nocl]

On 4/30/2021 at 7:29 PM, Boatdrill said:

Just curious....would you avoid sailing on a cruise from San Francisco ?  Has the Embarcadero area been affected ? 

 

 

I will leave from the port, but I no longer will leave my car parked in the city. Take town car from hotel near airport.