Wee bit of Alaska 2021 out of Seattle news

[d9704011]

19 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

That "stupid foreign requirement" is a safeguard for Canadian citizens and ship passengers.  Let us not forget that it was and is extremely necessary.  

 

I’m thinking the ‘stupid foreign requirement’ has to do with the PVSA but thanks for thinking of our safety!

[zelker]

2 hours ago, T8NCruise said:

That "stupid foreign requirement" is a safeguard for Canadian citizens and ship passengers.  Let us not forget that it was and is extremely necessary.  

 

I think you misunderstand.  The Jones Act/PVSA has nothing to do with the safety of Canadian (or any other) citizens.  It's an archaic shipping regulation that, in most cruisers' opinions, should not be applied to cruise ships.  

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by zelker

[cruisingrob21]

2 hours ago, T8NCruise said:

That "stupid foreign requirement" is a safeguard for Canadian citizens and ship passengers.  Let us not forget that it was and is extremely necessary.  

 

Doesn't the canadian order not even allow cruise ships in canadian water?  If so I would presume to help protect the Canadians from a situation where they would be required to accept medivac flights with severe covid cases.

[PROCRUISE]

I keep reading the positive and the negative about any cruising to Alaska out of Seattle this season. Generally I've given up any hope of our 8/15/21 Alaskan cruise out of Seattle actually happening. Even though we've both received both Moderna vaccinations and could deal with masks and all the other limitations, it is very apparent that the CDC intends to make the cruise lines the scapegoat of the whole COVID pandemic. Just wish HAL would go ahead and cancel.

I have flown 4 times this month. Two of the flights were completely full with all seats taken and the other two flights were 3/4 full. Masks were required (over mouth AND NOSE) the entire flight and in the airports. Hand sanitizer was everywhere in the airports and available on the planes. The seats were cleaned between flights and the air filtration system is now suppose to be as good as operating rooms in hospitals. The flights were also 2.5hrs+ long. Everyone was cooperative and followed the rules.

Also scheduled to take a one week Amtrak trip in October where we have already received notification of all the COVID safety rules that are being enforced.

Not sure what rules the CDC finds that the cruise lines have not addressed and will enforce, in addition to other as yet not made decisions like whether all passengers must be vaccinated perhaps for the first year that ships cruise again.

We have 2 cruises booked for 2021 ( August and November) and 2 booked for 2022 (February and April) and am beginning to wonder if any of them will actually happen due to the CDC. Many say we must place our complete faith in the CDC, I do not.

[CruiserBruce]

@PROCRUISE, there are many threads here discussing what the cruise lines have proposed, and what requirements they have replied to. Most notably, the cruise lines have not met the requirements on plans and agreements with local ports and countries should a case or series of cases develop on a ship. It also is not clear the cruise lines have agreed to increased capabilities for isolating and treating cases on board.

 

A big issue in my mind would be the full vaccination requirements for both crew and pax. Combine a short date to resume cruising...say July 1, and the need to have vaccines available all over the world for tens or hundreds of thousands of crew members (the US has a pretty good supply line...much of the rest of the world does not) has not been clearly defined.

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, zelker said:

Speaking of Alaska, I keep in touch with one of the Neptune Lounge concierges that we were on Eurodam with for the last two cruises before the COVID shutdown.  Last weekend when I asked if she'd heard anything about going back to work she told me -  

 

Last Monday, we had a Town Hall meeting with the leaders of HAL mainly giving us the crew the chance to ask questions about vaccination and changes in manning. HAL mentioned that we are aiming for a late summer restart in the US with Alaska, Europe and the Caribbean.

 

This isn't related to specific ships but rather in conjunction with what the crew has been told and what TAs are now saying, so maybe there is MORE than a glimmer of hope for some later-season Alaska cruises this year.  Fingers and toes crossed.

 

Late Summer cruises to Alaska?  A pipe dream at best, in my opinion.  Caribbean and Europe?  Yes, maybe, but the vessels will not be homeported in the United States.  

[Boatdrill]

Even if Alaska cruising reopens this summer, there's still an elephant in the room: civil unrest in downtown Seattle. It hasn't stopped.  

I won't be sailing from Seattle until there is some sense of safety for tourists. The cruiselines were lucky last summer that without sailings, the downtown area was lacking cruise passengers while the riots took off.   Protests are continuing to this day, with no end in sight. 

So it's Vancouver to Alaska in 2022.  

 

[cruisegirl]

6 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

Even if Alaska cruising reopens this summer, there's still an elephant in the room: civil unrest in downtown Seattle. It hasn't stopped.  

I won't be sailing from Seattle until there is some sense of safety for tourists. The cruiselines were lucky last summer that without sailings, the downtown area was lacking cruise passengers while the riots took off.   Protests are continuing to this day, with no end in sight. 

So it's Vancouver to Alaska in 2022.  

 

I don’t know anything about the location of the Seattle port. Is it close to where the protests are occurring?

[rkacruiser]

18 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

civil unrest in downtown Seattle. It hasn't stopped.  

 

Downtown Seattle is not near the cruise ship piers.  Plenty of areas for cruise guests to enjoy Seattle along the waterfront that I don't think are impacted by unrest.  

[HAL4NOW]

7 minutes ago, cruisegirl said:

I don’t know anything about the location of the Seattle port. Is it close to where the protests are occurring?

The cruise terminal is about 10-15 minutes driving (2-3 miles) from where most of the protests have taken place. Some of the protests have spilled downtown closer to the terminal (within a mile).

Most of the protests have remained orderly and peaceful until after dark. Traffic can be an issue at times, with protestors attempting to disrupt flow. 

There is also a large presence of individuals that prefer to stay on the streets and in homeless encampments instead of accessing available services. The governing authorities in Seattle have struggled with how to show compassion and maintain safety. I believe that both safety and compassion have gone by the wayside in favor of attempting to appease some of the most vocal critics of any appropriate action.

[Boatdrill]

28 minutes ago, cruisegirl said:

I don’t know anything about the location of the Seattle port. Is it close to where the protests are occurring?

Some cruise lines, such as NCL and Crystal, use the piers that are along downtown's waterfront. HAL, Princess and others use Pier 91, which is farther away from the downtown area. However it doesn't matter too much where the ships are docked. The hotels that the cruise lines use are in the downtown area,  and during cruise season, they're packed.  The area is a wonderful place to walk, shop, and dine pre-cruise.  The news coverage of the riots last summer on the same streets that many of us have walked in a normally safe tourist area - such as outside of Nordstrom's flagship store, which was heavily damaged -was alarming.  The protests continue, with vandalism and assaults. Last month several people were arrested during a downtown protest two blocks from the Sheraton, and up the hill from Pike Place. Maybe the answer is to just stay at an airport hotel pre-cruise. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Boatdrill

[nocl]

2 hours ago, PROCRUISE said:

I keep reading the positive and the negative about any cruising to Alaska out of Seattle this season. Generally I've given up any hope of our 8/15/21 Alaskan cruise out of Seattle actually happening. Even though we've both received both Moderna vaccinations and could deal with masks and all the other limitations, it is very apparent that the CDC intends to make the cruise lines the scapegoat of the whole COVID pandemic. Just wish HAL would go ahead and cancel.

I have flown 4 times this month. Two of the flights were completely full with all seats taken and the other two flights were 3/4 full. Masks were required (over mouth AND NOSE) the entire flight and in the airports. Hand sanitizer was everywhere in the airports and available on the planes. The seats were cleaned between flights and the air filtration system is now suppose to be as good as operating rooms in hospitals. The flights were also 2.5hrs+ long. Everyone was cooperative and followed the rules.

Also scheduled to take a one week Amtrak trip in October where we have already received notification of all the COVID safety rules that are being enforced.

Not sure what rules the CDC finds that the cruise lines have not addressed and will enforce, in addition to other as yet not made decisions like whether all passengers must be vaccinated perhaps for the first year that ships cruise again.

We have 2 cruises booked for 2021 ( August and November) and 2 booked for 2022 (February and April) and am beginning to wonder if any of them will actually happen due to the CDC. Many say we must place our complete faith in the CDC, I do not.

The problem is that the cruise lines have not submitted plans to the CDC for approval detailing what their protocols will be.  They also have not initiated agreements with US ports for dealing with any cases that might occur on board.

 

So at this point the CDC has not found anything that the cruise lines either have or have not addressed because they have not submitted their detailed plans telling them what they are addressing.  Only high level outlines of what might be included along with a request for the CSO to be dropped.

[Hlitner]

11 hours ago, Mosaic said:

Keep in mind that Greece is still under curfew---at this point.

True.  And the curfew is going to extended on May 3 (after the Orthodox Easter) to an expected 11pm.  Further relaxation of restrictions are supposed to happen in mid May.  Apparently the government has prioritized vaccinating folks on the many Greek Islands and hopes to have nearly 100% of those folks vaccinated by late May.   No question that the Greek government is rolling the dice by opening now, but with tourism representing about 20% of their economy (and a much higher percentage on many of the Greek Islands) they must balance priorities.  I also noticed they are opening to yachting, which is also a major source of income among the many islands. 

 

For what it is worth (probably not much) we have rolled the dice and planned a summer trip to Greece.

 

Hank

[nocl]

5 hours ago, zelker said:

I think you misunderstand.  The Jones Act/PVSA has nothing to do with the safety of Canadian (or any other) citizens.  It's an archaic shipping regulation that, in most cruisers' opinions, should not be applied to cruise ships.  

 

Actually not archaic due to international treaty all passengers ships above 12 passengers are basically treated the same.  The law applies to ferries, tour boats and a number of other activities and jobs inside of the US.

[CruiserBruce]

30 minutes ago, nocl said:

Actually not archaic due to international treaty all passengers ships above 12 passengers are basically treated the same.  The law applies to ferries, tour boats and a number of other activities and jobs inside of the US.

And, not archaic, as most other countries also have similar laws.

[OmarOak]

4 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

Some cruise lines, such as NCL and Crystal, use the piers that are along downtown's waterfront. HAL, Princess and others use Pier 91, which is farther away from the downtown area. However it doesn't matter too much where the ships are docked. The hotels that the cruise lines use are in the downtown area,  and during cruise season, they're packed.  The area is a wonderful place to walk, shop, and dine pre-cruise.  The news coverage of the riots last summer on the same streets that many of us have walked in a normally safe tourist area - such as outside of Nordstrom's flagship store, which was heavily damaged -was alarming.  The protests continue, with vandalism and assaults. Last month several people were arrested during a downtown protest two blocks from the Sheraton, and up the hill from Pike Place. Maybe the answer is to just stay at an airport hotel pre-cruise. 

Not sure what anyone talking of the unrest in Seattle is referring to. I am typing from a Hotel adjacent to Pike Place Market. Had a nice Dinner, and a walk afterward. No issues. Far too much media blowing up minor protests into major issues. Likewise in my home city of Portland. Fear mongering sensationalized by some in the media with a bias against the issues that led to protests.

[leerathje]

19 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

Yes, that's what I was thinking as I read this thread.  Canada was rather adamant that they would stay closed through December 2021 and I thought that meant not sailing through Canadian waters either.  

 

Canadian ports are closed to cruise ships until February 28, 2022, actually.

 

L.

 

[Hflors]

I find it strange that the Canadian Government will not allow cruise ships to enter their waters, but allow their citizens to fly out of the country and stay away for months.  I have heard from quite a few Canadians how they paid professional drivers to drive their motorhomes south across the border and they flew here to Florida.  Going back one couple said they were driving themselves back as they "are Canadians" so Canada has to let them cross.  I also think it is strange that trains do not need to file a "what they will do if someone on board develops signs of covid".  My niece and her son just did a five day trip across country on Amtrek and then flew back home to California.  All the above forms of travel are allowed, but not cruises.  Seems a bit strange to me.....

[d9704011]

I find it strange that people cannot or will not discern the difference between a cruise ship with 3,000 to 4,000 mostly non-Canadian citizens who have been dining, socializing, gambling, entertaining themselves, etc...  for a few days showing up at or near a Canadian port and expecting federal and local health authorities to treat them like a relative handful of people who have had a recent test or are traveling mainly independently.

Edited April 25, 2021 by d9704011

[Hflors]

19 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I find it strange that people cannot or will not discern the difference between a cruise ship with 3,000 to 4,000 mostly non-Canadian citizens who have been dining, socializing, gambling, entertaining themselves, etc...  for a few days showing up at or near a Canadian port and expecting federal and local health authorities to treat them like a relative handful of people who have had a recent test or are traveling mainly independently.

What you describe for non Canadian doing is exactly what the Canadian are doing in Florida.  Add to that shopping in thousands of stores where in a lot of cases masks aren't mandatory for customers.  And I am not talking a handful of Canadians I am also talking thousands!  Our Canadians also stay months, the whole winter in fact, not for a few days.  And they are treated like our own citizens.  3 or 4 thousand would be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Canadians that winter here.

[ontheweb]

15 hours ago, zelker said:

I think you misunderstand.  The Jones Act/PVSA has nothing to do with the safety of Canadian (or any other) citizens.  It's an archaic shipping regulation that, in most cruisers' opinions, should not be applied to cruise ships.  

 

The law covers all ships with more than 12 passengers. So, if you can find a smaller ship, you will be ok.🤣

 

The law also protects many US jobs on ships like ferries and those are also US owned businesses, not foreign flagged ships. If you research the cc boards, you can read from experienced mariners how this works.

 

Also "most cruisers opinions" is not a valid reason to have a law not applied.

 

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, Hflors said:

What you describe for non Canadian doing is exactly what the Canadian are doing in Florida.  Add to that shopping in thousands of stores where in a lot of cases masks aren't mandatory for customers.  And I am not talking a handful of Canadians I am also talking thousands!  Our Canadians also stay months, the whole winter in fact, not for a few days.  And they are treated like our own citizens.  3 or 4 thousand would be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Canadians that winter here.

If it bothers you, write a strongly worded letter to your Governor, Senators and Congressman to put in place the necessary barriers to not have these people wandering around in Florida.

[Hflors]

27 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

If it bothers you, write a strongly worded letter to your Governor, Senators and Congressman to put in place the necessary barriers to not have these people wandering around in Florida.

You misunderstand.  We have people from all over here in Florida.  We don't ban people because of what we think might happen.  My original post was referring to Canada allowing their citizens to travel to another country to enjoy themselves, but banning citizens from other countries from entering their country to enjoy themselves.  If Canada's borders are closed shouldn't they be closed both ways?  

[d9704011]

42 minutes ago, Hflors said:

You misunderstand.  We have people from all over here in Florida.  We don't ban people because of what we think might happen.  My original post was referring to Canada allowing their citizens to travel to another country to enjoy themselves, but banning citizens from other countries from entering their country to enjoy themselves.  If Canada's borders are closed shouldn't they be closed both ways?  

I guess I got a little confused about the cruising business.  So, let’s talk about travel in general.  Canada, like the US, cannot really stop its citizens from leaving the country.  Canada can make it difficult for its citizens to return by imposing testing and quarantine requirements they may not choose to have to fulfill.... so, the idea is to discourage non-essential travel and have people stay home for now.  As for closing things both ways, that’s pretty much up to the US authorities to restrict incoming travellers; we’ve done what we think is necessary up here.

[T8NCruise]

2 hours ago, Hflors said:

You misunderstand.  We have people from all over here in Florida.  We don't ban people because of what we think might happen.  My original post was referring to Canada allowing their citizens to travel to another country to enjoy themselves, but banning citizens from other countries from entering their country to enjoy themselves.  If Canada's borders are closed shouldn't they be closed both ways?  

We have been pretty much confined and only essential travel allowed for a year now.  I don't know of any Canadians travelling to another country to enjoy themselves - the Snowbirds were stuck down south when the borders closed (then complained about having to go into quarantine if they returned), and some who spend winter months in Mexico also stayed there.

For those few who have found the way to break the rules, Canada definitely doesn't "allow" citizens to travel to other countries.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by T8NCruise