Always Included for Elite

[patty1955]

4 minutes ago, jg51 said:

.

Hello, "patty1955."

We hope that you can you help us to understand something that you mentioned, above.

 

You said that the charge for what Celebrity calls "gratuities" is "a set price that's almost impossible to remove."  You used the words, "almost impossible."  Under what conditions is it possible "to remove" all or part of that charge -- and when can it be removed?  Here's why we're asking ...

 

For many years, some people (from some nations/cultures) did not follow the custom of allowing gratuities to be posted to their accounts automatically, during cruises.  So they [not us] would go to Guest Relations, on Embarkation Day, and would ask that gratuities not be charged -- and Celebrity complied with their wishes. 

 

Now, however, the so-called gratuities are being placed on a booking guest's invoice, months before the cruise (via the "Always Included" feature).  That is what caused us to ask you, above, "Under what conditions is it possible 'to remove' all or part of that charge -- and when?"  [PS:  We used the phrase, "so-called gratuities," because they are actually "service charges," not genuine "gratuities" [a word that means "free-will rewards/tips, given after a service has been rendered, not forcibly charged in advance."]

 

So, we wonder if you know ...

~~~ Could it be that it is actually impossible to remove "gratutities," regardless of whether it is (a) while booking, (b) on Embarkation Day, or (c) on some later day? 

~~~ If it really is possible to remove the forcibly prepaid "gratuities" -- can they be removed completely on Embarkation Day, as in the past, resulting in an On-Board Credit? 

~~~ Or if it really is possible to partially reduce the forcibly prepaid "gratuities" (in the midst of the cruise, due to dissatisfaction with services received), would that result in On-Board Credit?

 

Just to clarify something:  We certainly do not wish to do either of the above (remove all of the service charges on E-Day nor remove part of them during a cruise).  In over thirty cruises, we have never removed all the (daily-posted) service charges, and only once have we reduced them.  However, we (and probably some other members) would be interested to know what Celebrity's policy will be on this topic, now that "Always Included" has come into existence.

 

Thank you, if you (or someone else) are able to reply.

.

I can't swear to this but I've heard that people have successfully removed their gratuities the night before disembarkation. Since that's the night that everybody with an issue is at customer relations, the wait is extremely long. Hence the "almost" impossible. 

[jg51]

11 minutes ago, patty1955 said:

I can't swear to this but I've heard that people have successfully removed their gratuities the night before disembarkation. Since that's the night that everybody with an issue is at customer relations, the wait is extremely long. Hence the "almost" impossible. 

.

Thanks.  That makes sense.  We hope that someone else can confirm what you have said -- or expand on it.

 

Oh ... we just realized something.  If someone really can remove forcibly prepaid "gratuities" on the night before disembarkation, that could have one of two financial effects, and it is hard to know how Celebrity would handle them:

 

(1)  If the amount removed is less than the former balance on the statement, that would simply result in a lowered balance [charged to the credit card on file (or cash)] ... but ...

(2)  If the amount removed is greater than the former balance, that would result in a negative balance (a "credit"), meaning an amount that "X" ought to refund to the guest's credit card account.

 

Time will tell how "X" will handle the second situation.  (This is one of at least a couple of reasons that, unlike you, we are very much against "gratuities" being part of the "Always Included" package.  Gratuities should be genuine gratuities -- free-will tips -- paid only on board the ship.)

.

Edited July 4, 2021 by jg51

[Godblessourhome]

6 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes you definitely get it.  

Celebrity built EDGE and APEX to attract new customers.  And started AI to market to new customers.  The purpose is to attract young(er) customers and get them to consider cruising with them going forward as a primary vacation option.  Just like us more experienced cruisers when we started out years ago.  Loyalty programs and levels are an incentive that much of the travel industry uses to get customers established and to keep coming come back (early on).  But once you get to the top tiers, they already got your money previously so there is little incentive to keep you and give you more and more benefits ($cost).  Better for them to get you to go elsewhere.  Just why is there such a gap between E+ and Zenith?  They want to encourage us E+ cruisers to go elsewhere now.  Fill the expensive ships with eager to pay new customers.  Get them hooked on the expensive stuff like staying in suites and The Retreat.  E-class was designed just for this purpose.   Loyalty is a one way street going from you to Celebrity.  Not the other way-ever.  As an E+ I do enjoy their product and experience and that is why I still cruise with them.  Not because of free laundry or other minor perks.  I will just spend future vacation money on whatever cruise line or ship gives me the value and experience I am looking for.  If one focuses on loyalty perks as a reason to cruise then one is looking to be disappointed.  There is no reason to get offended by a marketing program and think it is unfair that others are getting the same as you after you "earned it" and they did not.  Just cruise elsewhere.

Agreed with you.  Celebrity no longer value their loyal customers.  Luckily there are cruise line(s) that still do.  We will change and stay with our another preferred cruise line which values their loyal customers and has not lower/changed their loyalty benefits.  

Very sad, as we used to love Celebrity...

 

 

[LGW59]

16 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Annoyed?  Yes. surprised?  No.  Most prices are up.  You have choices when booking travel.  Look at other options.  

I like how you stated this!  Annoyed? Yes. Surprised? No.  Some folks have been tossing the word "sad" around about this and "injustice".  Come on give me a break already, we all, or most, know real sadness or injustice, this change is NOT of of them.  Thank you Redtravel for being the grown up in the room!!

[3red7s]

On 7/3/2021 at 1:36 PM, CharlieCharlieCharlie said:

There are SO very many threads here that have addressed to Infinity and Beyond...

 

"Godblessourhome," we just mentioned that your complaints have been voiced many times during 2021, on various threads.  Here is a link to the most recent one, where you can read what people said (in May) about this topic:

 

Sometimes these topics are of interest to some of us who don't read these boards multiple times every single day, and might not have even thought of the questions presented, but find them of interest.  No need to make comments that sound like chastising people for posting questions, topics of discussion and things that interest them at the moment.  If you are not interested, don't click on the post to read it.  Thank you for the link, jg51, it is most helpful. Not every single reader was interested in this in May, but might be interested now, and/or never even looked at cruise critic back in May when they were not sailing.  If questions and comments are occasionally repeated, there would be very little that is new and of interest to actually read here.

so totally agree

 

[Ken the cruiser]

Speaking of perks, who took advantage of the low RCG stock price in March 2020 when it fell to as low as $24 a share, and bought 100 shares so they could get Shareholder Benefits OBC when they sail? That "new" OBC perk along with now being able to apply it to most X cruises as of June 2019 definitely helps offset the additional AI perk charge. At least in my mind it does. 😎

[mom says]

4 hours ago, jg51 said:

This is one of at least a couple of reasons that, unlike you, we are very much against "gratuities" being part of the "Always Included" package. 

Why am I not surprised? First the buffet, then preembarkation flights, and now gratuities. Ever the contrarian. 

 

Despite the fact that prepaid gratuities have been in place for years, and daily gratuities for the rest were added every day to your account, you choose to react as if this is something new.

 

There was a reason for the move to auto and prepaid grats. It was due to the significant number of cheapskates who would disappear on the last night and stiff the staff. Of course you will deny that you are one of these people. I believe you. Really I do. I believe it as much as I believe there is no such thing as food borne illness due to slovenly pax habits, and no one ever misses a cruise due to a late aircraft arrival. 

[patty1955]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Speaking of perks, who took advantage of the low RCG stock price in March 2020 when it fell to as low as $24 a share, and bought 100 shares so they could get Shareholder Benefits OBC when they sail? That "new" OBC perk along with now being able to apply it to most X cruises as of June 2019 definitely helps offset the additional AI perk charge. At least in my mind it does. 😎

I misplaced a decimal point and bought 30 shares for $19.96 on 3/18/20.

[Ken the cruiser]

10 minutes ago, patty1955 said:

I misplaced a decimal point and bought 30 shares for $19.96 on 3/18/20.

Hope you were able to buy at least another 70 shares before the price started going back up.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[keesar]

5 hours ago, patty1955 said:

I can't swear to this but I've heard that people have successfully removed their gratuities the night before disembarkation. Since that's the night that everybody with an issue is at customer relations, the wait is extremely long. Hence the "almost" impossible. 

 

The deadline is noon of the last full day of the cruise to adjust the tips.

[patty1955]

24 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Hope you were able to buy at least another 70 shares before the price started going back up.

 

No, I spent what I was comfortable with. I am a very nervous investor and $600 seem like a lot at the time. By the time I came to my senses it was too late. 

[jg51]

On 7/4/2021 at 3:39 PM, jg51 said:

.

... We certainly do not wish to do either of the above (remove all of the service charges on E-Day nor remove part of them during a cruise).  In over thirty cruises, we have never removed all the (daily-posted) service charges, and only once have we reduced them. ...

.

.

Hello, "mom says."

 

As you can see, the quotation (above) is from a post that we left here around five hours before your seriously unjust attack, which we are going to quote (and refute) below.  You must have failed to read the above carefully enough -- or it confused you -- because you proceeded to falsely accuse us of doing something that we had just explained that we do not do!  Please do not make the mistake/injustice of doing this ever again.

 

Now, we are going to reply to your comments below by inserting (in violet) the three portions of our response -- one portion after each of your paragraphs:

.

20 hours ago, mom says said:

Why am I not surprised? First the buffet, then preembarkation flights, and now gratuities. Ever the contrarian. 

.

We are not "contrarians."  We probably agree with you (and almost everyone else at this forum) on the vast majority of subjects.  We think, however, that part of the problem is that we disagree with you on a few topics about which you have very strong opinions.  We think that this causes you to become very angry.  You cannot persuade us that we are wrong, so you get very angry -- so angry that you become very careless (misreading and/or incompletely reading our messages); finally, you resort to insulting us, even though we don't deserve to be insulted!

 

We imagine that you have disgreed with other people (on this board) in the past, but you have never insulted them.  Why the difference with us?  We think we know the answer to that question:  We suspect that the difference -- which leads to your fury and injustice against us -- is that we frustrate you greatly by providing solid, logical reasons for believing as we do -- and you are incapable of overcoming those logical reasons!  (The only other explanation that we can come up with is that we write in a way that is too complicated for you to understand -- but we don't want to believe that such a thing is true.)

.

Quote

Despite the fact that prepaid gratuities have been in place for years, and daily gratuities for the rest were added every day to your account, you choose to react as if this is something new.

.

Sorry, but you are mistaken in three ways: 

~~ (1)  Contrary to what you said, "prepaid gratuities have" NOT "been in place for years."  Those words of yours imply that prepaying gratuities has been compulsory for years; instead, such pre-payment has only been optional for years, as we have always been well aware.

 

~~ (2)  We made it perfectly clear, in earlier posts, that we were aware of the fact that, "daily gratuities [for those who had not pre-paid] were added every day to [one's] account".  We hope that you have now seen -- in the text that we quoted above (from one of our earlier messages) -- that we have always paid gratuities in this way. 

 

~~ (3)  Contrary to what you said, we did not "choose to react as if this [the above two options] is something new."  Instead, we made it abundantly clear that what is "something new" is guests being FORCED to pre-pay "gratuities," months before a cruise -- and that packaging them into the "Always Included" fare  causes these fees to become "service charges."  Thus, they are no longer genuine gratuities (which are free-will tips, given after services are rendered).

.

Quote

There was a reason for the move to auto and prepaid grats. It was due to the significant number of cheapskates who would disappear on the last night and stiff the staff. Of course you will deny that you are one of these people. I believe you. Really I do. I believe it as much as I believe there is no such thing as food borne illness due to slovenly pax habits, and no one ever misses a cruise due to a late aircraft arrival. 

.

Good heavens!  Where to begin?  Your paragraph has so many things wrong with it!

 

~~ You actually have no idea whether or not the forcible pre-paying of "gratuities" has anything to do with some "cheapskates."  You are just assuming that.

 

~~ With your reference to people "disappear[ing] on the last night and stiff[ing] the staff," you seem to be implying (wrongly) that all guests are required to distribute cash tips at the end of a cruise!  There is no such obligation!  [The truth is that we do make such a distribution, but we are not obligated to do so.]

 

~~ Worse than that, your sarcasm and false accusations are truly sickening.  You come right out and accuse us of being among a group of "cheapskates," even though you know nothing whatsoever about us!  As we have already stated -- but you missed it or ignored it -- we have allowed auto-gratuities to be posted and left in place (unchanged) in all but one of our 30+ cruises.  [Even in that one special case, we did not remove all gratuities, but only decreased the amount, due to very poor service.] 

 

~~ And here is the "kicker" -- something that you did not know about us, but you now need to know it (and it ought to make you even more ashamed of your false attacks on us).  Please read the following (red, italic) words -- part of a message that we posted, in a completely separate thread -- earlier today, before we saw your new attacks on us.  These words will show you how much we have treasured our stateroom stewards over the last fifteen years:

 

We only wish that the "Go Green" option had been available since we started cruising (2006), as we have been "living it" throughout the years.  On each of our (more than thirty) Embarkation Days, we have given a letter to our stateroom steward.   In the letter -- in order to remove some of the steward's (and the laundry's) heavy burdens and to do our part for the environment -- we have made the following requests:

 

~~ Please replace towels only if they are on the floor (where we will put them every two days).

~~ Please clean the shower only when you pick up those towels.

~~ Except on the day that you change linens, please do not touch the bed -- neither (1) in the morning [when we will take 15 seconds to arrange the sheets and pillows ourselves] nor (2) in the evening.

~~ In the bedroom, please do not dust surfaces ...

~~ Please do all your other morning cleaning (replacing glasses, vaccuuming, trash removal, etc.) whenever and however you wish.  We will leave a magnet on the outside of the door to signal that we are "not home." ...

~~ Please do nothing in the evening except (1) to leave the next day's "Celebrity Today" and (2) to leave chocolates.  [Don't worry.  We will keep things so neat and clean that you won't need to do anything else.]

~~ Please take one morning "off" completely -- a "free day" -- if you have a customary day of worship.

 

Despite thereby relieving our stewards of several of their usual duties, we have almost always (1) continued to provide the full computer-generated gratuities and (2) given our stewards additional cash gratuities at the ends of cruises, because we have appreciated their hard work.

 

We will also take this opportunity to add the following:

We have also given a huge number of cash tips to bartenders, waiters, entertainers, anonymous hallway cleaners, dining room stewards, etc., throughout the course of our cruises.

.

And so, in conclusion, "mom says," we wish to tell you the following:

If you STILL really "hate our guts" as much as your comments have indicated that you do, then please stop reading our posts.  The easiest way to stop reading them is to prevent them from being shown to you.  You can do this as follows:

 

..... (1)  Go up near the upper right corner of any page of this forum, where you will find your handle ("mom says") followed by a little downward-pointing caret. 

..... (2)  Click on your handle, and you will be shown a menu, at or near the bottom of which you will see the words, "Ignored Users."

..... (3)  Click on "Ignored Users," and you will see a box into which you should type our handle (jg51).

..... (4)  Click on our handle (which you have just typed), and you will be given a choice of things that you would like to ignore -- for example, all of the messages that we ever post.  Please choose everything and then save your choices -- after which you will never have to be bothered by us again.

.

If, however, you NO LONGER hate our guts, then please try harder to understand -- and accept, without malice in return -- the reasons for our disagreements.  Thank you.

.

Edited July 5, 2021 by jg51

[LGW59]

24 minutes ago, jg51 said:

.

Hello, "mom says."

 

As you can see, the quotation (above) is from a post that we left here around five hours before your seriously unjust attack, which we are going to quote (and refute) below.  You must have failed to read the above carefully enough -- or it confused you -- because you proceeded to falsely accuse us of doing something that we had just explained that we do not do!  Please do not make the mistake/injustice of doing this ever again.

 

Now, we are going to reply to your comments below by inserting (in violet) the three portions of our response -- one portion after each of your paragraphs:

.

.

We are not "contrarians."  We probably agree with you (and almost everyone else at this forum) on the vast majority of subjects.  We think, however, that part of the problem is that we disagree with you on a few topics about which you have very strong opinions.  We think that this causes you to become very angry.  You cannot persuade us that we are wrong, so you get very angry -- so angry that you become very careless (misreading and/or incompletely reading our messages); finally, you resort to insulting us, even though we don't deserve to be insulted!

 

We imagine that you have disgreed with other people (on this board) in the past, but you have never insulted them.  Why the difference with us?  We think we know the answer to that question:  We suspect that the difference -- which leads to your fury and injustice against us -- is that we frustrate you greatly by providing solid, logical reasons for believing as we do -- and you are incapable of overcoming those logical reasons!  (The only other explanation that we can come up with is that we write in a way that is too complicated for you to understand -- but we don't want to believe that such a thing is true.)

.

.

Sorry, but you are mistaken in three ways: 

~~ (1)  Contrary to what you said, "prepaid gratuities have" NOT "been in place for years."  Those words of yours imply that prepaying gratuities has been compulsory for years; instead, such pre-payment has only been optional for years, as we have always been well aware.

 

~~ (2)  We made it perfectly clear, in earlier posts, that we were aware of the fact that, "daily gratuities [for those who had not pre-paid] were added every day to [one's] account".  We hope that you have now seen -- in the text that we quoted above (from one of our earlier messages) -- that we have always paid gratuities in this way. 

 

~~ (3)  Contrary to what you said, we did not "choose to react as if this [the above two options] is something new."  Instead, we made it abundantly clear that what is "something new" is guests being FORCED to pre-pay "gratuities," months before a cruise -- and that packaging them into the "Always Included" fare  causes these fees to become "service charges."  Thus, they are no longer genuine gratuities (which are free-will tips, given after services are rendered).

.

.

Good heavens!  Where to begin?  Your paragraph has so many things wrong with it!

 

~~ You actually have no idea whether or not the forcible pre-paying of "gratuities" has anything to do with some "cheapskates."  You are just assuming that.

 

~~ With your reference to people "disappear[ing] on the last night and stiff[ing] the staff," you seem to be implying (wrongly) that all guests are required to distribute cash tips at the end of a cruise!  There is no such obligation!  [The truth is that we do make such a distribution, but we are not obligated to do so.]

 

~~ Worse than that, your sarcasm and false accusations are truly sickening.  You come right out and accuse us of being among a group of "cheapskates," even though you know nothing whatsoever about us!  As we have already stated -- but you missed it or ignored it -- we have allowed auto-gratuities to be posted and left in place (unchanged) in all but one of our 30+ cruises.  [Even in that one special case, we did not remove all gratuities, but only decreased the amount, due to very poor service.] 

 

~~ And here is the "kicker" -- something that you did not know about us, but you now need to know it (and it ought to make you even more ashamed of your false attacks on us).  Please read the following (red, italic) words -- part of a message that we posted, in a completely separate thread -- earlier today, before we saw your new attacks on us.  These words will show you how much we have treasured our stateroom stewards over the last fifteen years:

 

We only wish that the "Go Green" option had been available since we started cruising (2006), as we have been "living it" throughout the years.  On each of our (more than thirty) Embarkation Days, we have given a letter to our stateroom steward.   In the letter -- in order to remove some of the steward's (and the laundry's) heavy burdens and to do our part for the environment -- we have made the following requests:

 

~~ Please replace towels only if they are on the floor (where we will put them every two days).

~~ Please clean the shower only when you pick up those towels.

~~ Except on the day that you change linens, please do not touch the bed -- neither (1) in the morning [when we will take 15 seconds to arrange the sheets and pillows ourselves] nor (2) in the evening.

~~ In the bedroom, please do not dust surfaces ...

~~ Please do all your other morning cleaning (replacing glasses, vaccuuming, trash removal, etc.) whenever and however you wish.  We will leave a magnet on the outside of the door to signal that we are "not home." ...

~~ Please do nothing in the evening except (1) to leave the next day's "Celebrity Today" and (2) to leave chocolates.  [Don't worry.  We will keep things so neat and clean that you won't need to do anything else.]

~~ Please take one morning "off" completely -- a "free day" -- if you have a customary day of worship.

 

Despite thereby relieving our stewards of several of their usual duties, we have almost always (1) continued to provide the full computer-generated gratuities and (2) given our stewards additional cash gratuities at the ends of cruises, because we have appreciated their hard work.

 

We will also take this opportunity to add the following:

We have also given a huge number of cash tips to bartenders, waiters, entertainers, anonymous hallway cleaners, dining room stewards, etc., throughout the course of our cruises.

.

And so, in conclusion, "mom says," we wish to tell you the following:

If you STILL really "hate our guts" as much as your comments have indicated that you do, then please stop reading our posts.  The easiest way to stop reading them is to prevent them from being shown to you.  You can do this as follows:

 

..... (1)  Go up near the upper right corner of any page of this forum, where you will find your handle ("mom says") followed by a little downward-pointing caret. 

..... (2)  Click on your handle, and you will be shown a menu, at or near the bottom of which you will see the words, "Ignored Users."

..... (3)  Click on "Ignored Users," and you will see a box into which you should type our handle (jg51).

..... (4)  Click on our handle (which you have just typed), and you will be given a choice of things that you would like to ignore -- for example, all of the messages that we ever post.  Please choose everything and then save your choices -- after which you will never have to be bothered by us again.

.

If, however, you NO LONGER hate our guts, then please try harder to understand -- and accept, without malice in return -- the reasons for our disagreements.  Thank you.

.

There are just no "words"!!

[isdoo]

On 7/4/2021 at 8:39 PM, jg51 said:

.

Hello, "patty1955."

We hope that you can you help us to understand something that you mentioned, above.

 

You said that the charge for what Celebrity calls "gratuities" is "a set price that's almost impossible to remove."  You used the words, "almost impossible."  Under what conditions is it possible "to remove" all or part of that charge -- and when can it be removed?  Here's why we're asking ...

 

For many years, some people (from some nations/cultures) did not follow the custom of allowing gratuities to be posted to their accounts automatically, during cruises.  So they [not us] would go to Guest Relations, on Embarkation Day, and would ask that gratuities not be charged -- and Celebrity complied with their wishes. 

 

Now, however, the so-called gratuities are being placed on a booking guest's invoice, months before the cruise (via the "Always Included" feature).  That is what caused us to ask you, above, "Under what conditions is it possible 'to remove' all or part of that charge -- and when?"  [PS:  We used the phrase, "so-called gratuities," because they are actually "service charges," not genuine "gratuities" [a word that means "free-will rewards/tips, given after a service has been rendered, not forcibly charged in advance."]

 

So, we wonder if you know ...

~~~ Could it be that it is actually impossible to remove forcibly prepaid "gratuities," regardless of whether it is (a) while booking, (b) on Embarkation Day, or (c) on some later day? 

~~~ If it really is possible to remove the forcibly prepaid "gratuities" -- can they be removed completely on Embarkation Day, as in the past, resulting in an On-Board Credit? 

~~~ Or if it really is possible to partially reduce the forcibly prepaid "gratuities" (in the midst of the cruise, due to dissatisfaction with services received), would that result in On-Board Credit?

 

Just to clarify something:  We certainly do not wish to do either of the above (remove all of the service charges on E-Day nor remove part of them during a cruise).  In over thirty cruises, we have never removed all the (daily-posted) service charges, and only once have we reduced them.  However, we (and probably some other members) would be interested to know what Celebrity's policy will be on this topic, now that "Always Included" has come into existence.

 

Thank you, if you (or someone else) are able to reply.

.

I noticed that it is possible to remove the gratuities on my booking even before I have sailed on a tips included fare. 

Not that I intend to - but the option was there.

[cantstopingcruising]

Another tipping thread????

 

I read that some restaurants, post-covid, are experimenting with eliminating tips.  I think that's a great idea and may be the way of the future. For the tippee, it would ensure a guaranteed income, and for the tipper, it would eliminate insecurities, should I this much, that much, whatever.

[patty1955]

3 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Another tipping thread????

 

I read that some restaurants, post-covid, are experimenting with eliminating tips. 

Do you mean like this:

[ipeeinthepool]

13 hours ago, jg51 said:

.

Hello, "mom says."

 

As you can see, the quotation (above) is from a post that we left here around five hours before your seriously unjust attack, which we are going to quote (and refute) below.  You must have failed to read the above carefully enough -- or it confused you -- because you proceeded to falsely accuse us of doing something that we had just explained that we do not do!  Please do not make the mistake/injustice of doing this ever again.

 

Now, we are going to reply to your comments below by inserting (in violet) the three portions of our response -- one portion after each of your paragraphs:

.

.

We are not "contrarians."  We probably agree with you (and almost everyone else at this forum) on the vast majority of subjects.  We think, however, that part of the problem is that we disagree with you on a few topics about which you have very strong opinions.  We think that this causes you to become very angry.  You cannot persuade us that we are wrong, so you get very angry -- so angry that you become very careless (misreading and/or incompletely reading our messages); finally, you resort to insulting us, even though we don't deserve to be insulted!

 

We imagine that you have disgreed with other people (on this board) in the past, but you have never insulted them.  Why the difference with us?  We think we know the answer to that question:  We suspect that the difference -- which leads to your fury and injustice against us -- is that we frustrate you greatly by providing solid, logical reasons for believing as we do -- and you are incapable of overcoming those logical reasons!  (The only other explanation that we can come up with is that we write in a way that is too complicated for you to understand -- but we don't want to believe that such a thing is true.)

.

.

Sorry, but you are mistaken in three ways: 

~~ (1)  Contrary to what you said, "prepaid gratuities have" NOT "been in place for years."  Those words of yours imply that prepaying gratuities has been compulsory for years; instead, such pre-payment has only been optional for years, as we have always been well aware.

 

~~ (2)  We made it perfectly clear, in earlier posts, that we were aware of the fact that, "daily gratuities [for those who had not pre-paid] were added every day to [one's] account".  We hope that you have now seen -- in the text that we quoted above (from one of our earlier messages) -- that we have always paid gratuities in this way. 

 

~~ (3)  Contrary to what you said, we did not "choose to react as if this [the above two options] is something new."  Instead, we made it abundantly clear that what is "something new" is guests being FORCED to pre-pay "gratuities," months before a cruise -- and that packaging them into the "Always Included" fare  causes these fees to become "service charges."  Thus, they are no longer genuine gratuities (which are free-will tips, given after services are rendered).

.

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Good heavens!  Where to begin?  Your paragraph has so many things wrong with it!

 

~~ You actually have no idea whether or not the forcible pre-paying of "gratuities" has anything to do with some "cheapskates."  You are just assuming that.

 

~~ With your reference to people "disappear[ing] on the last night and stiff[ing] the staff," you seem to be implying (wrongly) that all guests are required to distribute cash tips at the end of a cruise!  There is no such obligation!  [The truth is that we do make such a distribution, but we are not obligated to do so.]

 

~~ Worse than that, your sarcasm and false accusations are truly sickening.  You come right out and accuse us of being among a group of "cheapskates," even though you know nothing whatsoever about us!  As we have already stated -- but you missed it or ignored it -- we have allowed auto-gratuities to be posted and left in place (unchanged) in all but one of our 30+ cruises.  [Even in that one special case, we did not remove all gratuities, but only decreased the amount, due to very poor service.] 

 

~~ And here is the "kicker" -- something that you did not know about us, but you now need to know it (and it ought to make you even more ashamed of your false attacks on us).  Please read the following (red, italic) words -- part of a message that we posted, in a completely separate thread -- earlier today, before we saw your new attacks on us.  These words will show you how much we have treasured our stateroom stewards over the last fifteen years:

 

We only wish that the "Go Green" option had been available since we started cruising (2006), as we have been "living it" throughout the years.  On each of our (more than thirty) Embarkation Days, we have given a letter to our stateroom steward.   In the letter -- in order to remove some of the steward's (and the laundry's) heavy burdens and to do our part for the environment -- we have made the following requests:

 

~~ Please replace towels only if they are on the floor (where we will put them every two days).

~~ Please clean the shower only when you pick up those towels.

~~ Except on the day that you change linens, please do not touch the bed -- neither (1) in the morning [when we will take 15 seconds to arrange the sheets and pillows ourselves] nor (2) in the evening.

~~ In the bedroom, please do not dust surfaces ...

~~ Please do all your other morning cleaning (replacing glasses, vaccuuming, trash removal, etc.) whenever and however you wish.  We will leave a magnet on the outside of the door to signal that we are "not home." ...

~~ Please do nothing in the evening except (1) to leave the next day's "Celebrity Today" and (2) to leave chocolates.  [Don't worry.  We will keep things so neat and clean that you won't need to do anything else.]

~~ Please take one morning "off" completely -- a "free day" -- if you have a customary day of worship.

 

Despite thereby relieving our stewards of several of their usual duties, we have almost always (1) continued to provide the full computer-generated gratuities and (2) given our stewards additional cash gratuities at the ends of cruises, because we have appreciated their hard work.

 

We will also take this opportunity to add the following:

We have also given a huge number of cash tips to bartenders, waiters, entertainers, anonymous hallway cleaners, dining room stewards, etc., throughout the course of our cruises.

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And so, in conclusion, "mom says," we wish to tell you the following:

If you STILL really "hate our guts" as much as your comments have indicated that you do, then please stop reading our posts.  The easiest way to stop reading them is to prevent them from being shown to you.  You can do this as follows:

 

..... (1)  Go up near the upper right corner of any page of this forum, where you will find your handle ("mom says") followed by a little downward-pointing caret. 

..... (2)  Click on your handle, and you will be shown a menu, at or near the bottom of which you will see the words, "Ignored Users."

..... (3)  Click on "Ignored Users," and you will see a box into which you should type our handle (jg51).

..... (4)  Click on our handle (which you have just typed), and you will be given a choice of things that you would like to ignore -- for example, all of the messages that we ever post.  Please choose everything and then save your choices -- after which you will never have to be bothered by us again.

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If, however, you NO LONGER hate our guts, then please try harder to understand -- and accept, without malice in return -- the reasons for our disagreements.  Thank you.

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Seems like you're angry at some people.  Perhaps you should take your own advice and use the ignore feature.

[4774Papa]

10 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Another tipping thread????

 

I read that some restaurants, post-covid, are experimenting with eliminating tips.  I think that's a great idea and may be the way of the future. For the tippee, it would ensure a guaranteed income, and for the tipper, it would eliminate insecurities, should I this much, that much, whatever.

Since COVID19 hit so many small businesses (restaurants) hard, I have increased my tipping percentage from 20% to 25 or 30%.   My friends have done likewise.

 

I will never understand someone failing to tip or tipping small amounts.

[TeeRick]

OK we are in a tipping thread.  Welcome back to old times!  I love prepaid gratuities.  And also onboard automatic gratuities added to bar orders and such.  It is another thing that I don't have to think about on a cruise.  Just have some extra cash at the end to tip extra to those that particularly have made my experience better.  Prepaid gratuities help with giving the hard working staff a minimum base salary every week.  Part of cruising that I personally understand and accept. Some might say that their particular room steward or waiter did something wrong and don't deserve their gratuity.  But that is something to be corrected with a directed complaint rather than withholding gratuities from everybody.  Just MHO.  Also tipping and gratuities and percent to tip is very much a culture driven practice depending on your country. 

[C-Dragons]

28 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

OK we are in a tipping thread.  Welcome back to old times!  I love prepaid gratuities.  And also onboard automatic gratuities added to bar orders and such….

Some might say that their particular room steward or waiter did something wrong and don't deserve their gratuity.  But that is something to be corrected with a directed complaint rather than withholding gratuities from everybody.  Just MHO.  Also tipping and gratuities and percent to tip is very much a culture driven practice depending on your country. 

Agreed, it serves no purpose to “punish” a crew member by removing gratuities. It is much more constructive to let their supervisors know so they can receive better training.

Also make sure to tell their supervisors when they do a great job. We know that our comments have resulted in staff being promoted.

[cantstopingcruising]

9 hours ago, patty1955 said:

Do you mean like this:

I don't know! But once they mention that an additional tip is optional, the same old questions arrise. It defeats the purpose.

Edited July 6, 2021 by cantstopingcruising

[Ken the cruiser]

When we sailed on a RCCL cruise a few years back, our cabin steward told us they basically got $50 for signing a 6 month contract plus their portion of the gratuities collected by the cruise line from each of the passengers they provided service to. Anyone else ever hear something similar or totally different?

[jg51]

21 hours ago, isdoo said:

I noticed that it is possible to remove the gratuities on my booking even before I have sailed on a tips included fare. 
Not that I intend to - but the option was there.

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Thank you, "isdoo."  We are surprised to learn this fact.

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8 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Seems like you're angry at some people.  Perhaps you should take your own advice and use the ignore feature.

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Good day, sir.

Your words are very puzzling to us.  Here's why:

(1)  The fact that we expressed our displeasure about things done by a certain person -- not just on this thread, but on three threads -- does not mean that we are "angry."  We did not shout or insult anyone, as angry people often do.

 

(2) For some reason, you used the phrase, "some people."  Our comments were addressed to only one person, not "some people."

 

(3) You suggested that we "take [our] own advice and use the 'ignore' feature."  We don't like to use it -- and we have used it only a couple of times, in eleven years -- when the behaviors of two people have been almost unbelievably bad and would not be corrected by them.  We do not block/ignore your posts nor those of "mom says," because we think that we may benefit from them in the future.  We would rather try to keep the avenues of communication open as much as, and as long as, possible.

 

Thanks for your comment.

,

[ipeeinthepool]

5 minutes ago, jg51 said:

...

Thanks for your comment.

,

 

No problem.  Anytime

[PTC DAWG]

On 7/4/2021 at 8:58 PM, keesar said:

 

The deadline is noon of the last full day of the cruise to adjust the tips.

I don't want to sail with folks that do this...unless the adjustment is upwards.