Alaska Glaciers Cruise - the cruise skipped the glacier

[Ferry_Watcher]

3 hours ago, rodiond said:

Is it not the right observation? at least that's what I saw around me late in the evening 🙂 Not everyone, of course, but a fair number of people.

Wow.

[Eddie Wilson]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:01 PM, wcook said:

Apparently landing a helicopter on a ship at sea is much riskier than teevee would have us believe. 
 

Missing a glacier day seems to come up a few times each season. Legally, you are entitled to nothing. If you ask, you might get some symbolic comp, but don’t get your hopes up.  And yes, missing glacier day sucks and no compensation sucks. 

 

I am not sure if the do this all the time, but we had a hello evac on Jewel last Dec.  

They didn’t land on the ship 

They hovered above the helipad about 50 to 75 feet and dropped ropes, cot etc, then cranked the person up to the copter. 

 

I was amazed, as the captain slowed to 15 knots, the helo pilot was perpendicular to the ship, holding in place, which means they were traveling 15 knots sideways.

 

Eddie

[wcook]

7 hours ago, rodiond said:

Is it not the right observation? at least that's what I saw around me late in the evening 🙂 Not everyone, of course, but a fair number of people.

/raiseshand/

 

It was me. I was drunk. 

[CruiserBruce]

12 hours ago, OZ. said:

??? He is on the Royal thread.

This thread started on the "Ask A Question " board. 

[MBP&O2/O]

6 hours ago, Eddie Wilson said:

was amazed, as the captain slowed to 15 knots, the helo pilot was perpendicular to the ship, holding in place, which means they were traveling 15 knots sideways.

As stated earlier,  the aircraft flys into the wind and the ships course and speed accommodates the needs of the aircraft ... hence it all looks askew😵‍💫

[rg123]

18 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I booked grand Cayman and Jamaica and got Costa maya and Belize. Lower port fees. Then we skipped costa maya and no refund. I wrote to mbayley and asked why no refund of port fees. He said they had no policy and it was up to each ship if they wanted to refund anything. That since they dont charge extra if port fees go up they dont have to refund if they drop (such as what carnival does).

 

I personally feel it's wrong to charge port fees and not return unused fees. But yes they say its their policy. Refunds are up to each ship.

 

The ship said since it was weather no refund. We had a windy day and 6 ft waves. I wrote and here is their answer when I asked for their written policy on refunding for missing ports.

 

Thank you for writing into the Royal Caribbean Executive office. I am happy to address your concerns and requests on behalf of Mr. Bayley today.

 

We’re sorry to hear of the disappointment and trouble you have had with requesting refunds of Taxes & Fees. Since you are still onboard the Liberty, we ask that you please bring these issues to the attention of our dedicated Guest Services staff onboard, so they can address them promptly.

 

Generally, Taxes & Fees costs fluctuate daily, sometimes hours, before a sailing. When you make your vacation plans, we lock in those costs for your specific reservation. As we do not charge guests if those prices go up, we also typically do not refund if they should go down prior to sailing. Also, compensation or refunds for missed ports while inboard are at the discretion of the ship crew and staff. We apologize again for the inconvenience and frustration.

 

Thank you again for contacting us. We look forward to welcoming you onboard soon.

 

Sincerely,

We were on this cruise, too. Totally different itinerary than we had originally booked. We didn’t write to Mr. Bayley, but did go to Guest Services with issues regarding the port fees of Costa Maya so they could  “address them promptly “ as stated above. They promptly told us there would be no refund of port fees. End of story. 😏

[shipgeeks]

rodiond, I'm sorry you were disappointed with some aspects of your cruise, but I'm more concerned that it appears to have affected your enjoyment of the cruise so greatly.  Were there not other ports and experiences that you enjoyed?  We thought Mendenhall Glacier was fabulous, as was just sailing from port to port.  Were there not pleasant and sober people around you, as well as the drunks?  Were the crew gracious and helpful?  Have you ever been to a concert in which a song you wanted was not played?  Or a restaurant that ran out of the dessert you had planned to get?  Planned an outing and then got rain?

[edinburgher]

 

Glacier Bay was indeed fantastic, but we also really enjoyed College Fjord.  Beautiful.

 

Hubbard is another good one and College Fjord was good too of course, and in many ways reminded me of Glacier Alley which was another "scenic cruising" opportunity, this time in Patagonia part way through a S. America itinerary.

 

We have enjoyed Glacier Bay by ship 3 times and had very different weather each time. And the weather gave a whole new look to the Bay  In some ways, the day which was gray and a bit misty gave us some of our best photos as there was an almost "otherworldly" look to the Bay.  It was very  atmospheric and almost mystical.

 

Also been lucky to actually fly over Glacier Bay and surroundings on a flightseeing trip out of Haines, booked only that morning when the weather was perfect when we disembaked  If anything, that was even more spectacular than the sail through as we could see for miles around and to where the glaciers began forming.

 

Yes, we love our glaciers, also icebergs.  We sailed all of the above with HAL and have never really noticed any obvious drunks on any of our trips with them. I guess they attract a different demographic. They (and I think also Princess) have more Glacier Bay permits than some of the other lines, but correct me if that is not the case.

 

OP something else to be aware of.

Over many years of cruising, we have only lost out on a  tiny number of port calls and had a small number of substitutes too, but have had a fair number of shorex cancelled, usually last minute for a number of reasons , so these cannot be guaranteed either.

Edited July 25, 2022 by edinburgher

[firefly333]

4 hours ago, rg123 said:

We were on this cruise, too. Totally different itinerary than we had originally booked. We didn’t write to Mr. Bayley, but did go to Guest Services with issues regarding the port fees of Costa Maya so they could  “address them promptly “ as stated above. They promptly told us there would be no refund of port fees. End of story. 😏

yep they firmly said no return of port fees. Agree they were a firm no.

 

I read other posts here where others got their port fees back so I wrote to ask what the policy is. I admit I was surprised they have no policy, it's up to every ship to do whatever they want. I feel they cant charge port fees and use them for something else. If a ship doesnt make a port they can decide they need the extra profit and keep it.

 

That's why I thought it might be applicable here, they missed a glacier and no obc. Ships decide. 

[OZ.]

22 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

This thread was originally posted on Ask a Cruise question. It was moved here by the mods.

Thanks, no wonder I was confused.

[BecciBoo]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

yep they firmly said no return of port fees. Agree they were a firm no

I believe because the Glacier itself is not a port.  Since you made Juneau, which is actually the port for Tracy Arm Fjord, they still had to pay the port fee.

[JupiterTwo]

20 hours ago, Travel R said:

Speaking of licenses - Royal currently does not have a license to traverse Glacier Bay National Park.

 

That's why my wife and I did our Alaska land tour and cruise with Princess.

[rodiond]

5 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

rodiond, I'm sorry you were disappointed with some aspects of your cruise, but I'm more concerned that it appears to have affected your enjoyment of the cruise so greatly.  Were there not other ports and experiences that you enjoyed?  We thought Mendenhall Glacier was fabulous, as was just sailing from port to port.  Were there not pleasant and sober people around you, as well as the drunks?  Were the crew gracious and helpful?  Have you ever been to a concert in which a song you wanted was not played?  Or a restaurant that ran out of the dessert you had planned to get?  Planned an outing and then got rain?

The ship and the crew was great, the entertainment were and food also very good - no complains here. Unfortunately we got unlucky with the weather - it was rainy, cold, and foggy all the way (end of June). I was expecting to see mountains, icebergs, and snow for the duration of the cruise but I guess my expectations were too high 🙂 

[LeeW]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:59 PM, njhorseman said:

If you read cruise lines' ticket contracts you'll see that they have the right to change the itinerary . They're under no obligation to to compensate the passengers for an itinerary change but sometimes the cruise line will  do so a matter of passenger goodwill by providing a small onboard credit or a small credit that can be used towards a future cruise.

 

Understatement - the contract doesn't even require them to go to ANY port (although PVSA requires that they at least touch another country without letting passengers off).  And it is common to miss ports.  Have often had Eastern Caribbean cruises turn into Western due to weather with no compensation at all.  Lots of stories about people planning weddings on an island and the ship not stopping there.

[chengkp75]

Regarding medevac situations.  The first thing that will happen is the doctor and Captain will discuss whether the patient can be stabilized for the amount of time it will take the ship to get to port, and if this is affirmative, then that is the method that will be used, it is the best for the patient.

 

If the doctor feels the patient needs to get to a hospital sooner, then the Captain will notify the USCG, and the USCG flight surgeon and flight crew will join the discussion.  The flight surgeon will determine the risk to the patient of being airlifted is less than remaining on the ship.  There are very limited assets on the helicopter, if the patient's condition worsens.  If that is the case, then they will schedule a medevac flight, if the flight crew and Captain concur that the risk to the helicopter and ship justify the airlift.  No helicopter will land on a cruise ship, they will almost always use the basket and winch, as the helicopters are generally too large for the helideck, and landing on a moving ship is risky.  Since there is a limited number of USCG SAR helicopters and crews, "planning" for medical emergencies is not something that can be done.  Besides, how many complaints would there be if the Captain came on the PA and said "sorry, we're going to miss the next port because we have to practice a helicopter evacuation today"?  As noted by others, a helicopter extraction requires a lot of skill on the part of the ship (maintaining enough speed to minimize pitching and rolling), and training by the crew in handling the winch lines (risk of electrocution is very real), as well as by the flight crew, who have to essentially fly along with the ship, keeping station on it.  Generally, they winch from aft on the upper decks, and this causes more problems due to the turbulence caused by the ship's exhaust.   The helicopters have a limited range, and if the range is over a certain distance, or the water temperature or weather is not great, the USCG will send a fixed wing aircraft to watch over the helicopter and to provide assistance if things go sideways.

 

Using a small boat is almost never done, except in port.   The first problem is getting the patient from the ship to the boat.  Unless you have a tremendously skilled boat driver, the ship will need to stop, and form a "lee" (act as a windbreak), but that means the ship is rolling, so it is a danger to the boat, and the ship is rising and falling with respect to the boat, and lifting a patient, likely in a stretcher onto the boat is extremely difficult.  We offloaded a deceased crew member, at anchor, in a sheltered port, and still nearly dropped him.  Then there is the motion of the boat when running at speed in the open ocean.  It will either be pounding into the waves, shocking the patient, or the pitching and rolling will cause the patient to get seasick, worsening their condition and their likelihood of survival.

 

So, yes, a medical emergency will cause a "force majeure" situation, and like all triage scenarios, you prioritize your assets, and since the entire rest of the ship is in no danger if the ship diverts to put the patient ashore, the patient is the important, deciding factor.  All of this has been tested and proven over decades, and while it impacts your vacation negatively, it saves the patient's life.  That is what is important.  

 

As for compensation, under UNCLOS (the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea), the ship is required to provide the best possible care for a sick or injured crew or passenger, so a diversion is out of the cruise line's hands, and hence no compensation.  As an example of why this is the case, look no further than the Costa Concordia.  Italian law requires that if passengers are held at their muster stations for a certain amount of time due to an onboard emergency, then they are entitled to compensation.  This compensation factor is what made Schettino decide not to muster the passengers when the ship hit the rock, and this is the direct cause of the loss of life in that incident.

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:39 PM, Aquahound said:

 

US Coast Guard uses the term medevac when transporting a patient via helicopter, so it is not at all misleading to use that term.   

If you reread my post, you’ll see that I was talking about the confusion caused by insurance terminology.

Not unlike PreExistingCondition (PEC) which means different things to healthcare and travel insurance, MedEvac means something different in the Insurance Industry than it does in the Maritime World.

And the “misleading” that is inherent in that confusion can be quite expensive to a cruise newbie who thinks they need MedEvac insurance to pay for the Coast Guard “field rescue” (which is what insurers would call it).
And, as I trust you know: With few exceptions worldwide, ocean nations’ Coast Guards seldom charge cruise ship passengers for what an insurance company would call “field rescue” (which you and I would normally call MedEvac). And, of course, I probably don’t need to explain to you what is the primary purpose  of MedEvac insurance.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Flatbush Flyer

[LB_NJ]

In general missing a glacier can happen for many reasons.  In Alaska, it can be weather or depending on the time of year it can be to much ice.

[AmazedByCruising]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Italian law requires that if passengers are held at their muster stations for a certain amount of time due to an onboard emergency, then they are entitled to compensation.  This compensation factor is what made Schettino decide not to muster the passengers when the ship hit the rock, and this is the direct cause of the loss of life in that incident.

 

I've read much about that incident, a lot written by you, but this is completely new to me. This seems like the most absurd law ever. Keeping guests at a muster station is a fine in itself, because those guests stop ordering martinis. Such law makes it unlawful to take care of your passengers.

 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, LeeW said:

Understatement - the contract doesn't even require them to go to ANY port (although PVSA requires that they at least touch another country without letting passengers off). 

Actually the PVSA regulations no longer allow a technical stop to satisfy the foreign port requirement. That change was made a number of years ago. The ship now has to make an actual port call with passengers being allowed to disembark. You no longer see the old "sail by" at Ensenada on West Coast cruises or the cruises from the West Coast to Hawaii and back.

Edited July 25, 2022 by njhorseman

[CruiseWendy]

In my 25 years of cruising no sailing is guaranteed. I've missed Hubbard Glacier due to 20' waves, had a ship go back to a port for a medical emergency shortening the time spent at our next port, missed an entire country due to severe weather, diverted from an western Caribbean port to an eastern Caribbean port due to a crazy storm system, perfect day at coco cay cut in half due to a severe storm system, missing a port due to engine problems. That being said I've only been comped twice for two instances and we were good with it. The joys of travel...things happen. 

[latebuyer]

I just want to say i completely understand the ops frustrations. Heck, i even get frustrated when my trip on the skytrain (vancouver’s form of a subway) gets delayed by a medical emergency. My sense of it is there are many people travelling who shouldn’t because they have some sort of underlying health condition. That is particularly marked on cruises where you may have older people cruising with multiple health ailments. I’ll probably get slammed for my comments, but there it is. Thanks for the detailed explanation about why the other types of rescues through small boat or helicopter aren’t possible. Maybe why you should reconsider a cruise with a lot of sea days if you have health problems or just reconsider cruising altogether.

[latebuyer]

Just to add as my parents are older i am glad the cruise company gives good care but not sure a cruise is the right place for older people with health conditions. My dad got pneumonia on a viking ship and he said they helped a lot.

[neverbeenhere]

Over the years we’ve missed many ports and locations. Ship happens!

 

Missed location always a great reason to be one the even more drunk passengers. 
 

 

enjoy cruising!

[edinburgher]

 

I was expecting to see mountains, icebergs, and snow for the duration of the cruise but I guess my expectations were too high

 

RODIOND,  Unfortunately your expectations were indeed a little high.

 

Alaska is not actually known for actual big  "icebergs", more usually known for little  "bergy bits" due to the number of calvings, and the even smaller "brash".  For actual icebergs of all sizes (and magificent and beautiful they are) you would need to go to Greenland, Antarctica or around Newfoundland or Labrador.  There are one or two areas in Iceland, but they are not to be found across the country.

 

Our first Greenland cruising saw us fall in love with icebergs and we returned a second time a couple of years later.  They come in all shapes and sizes and form beautiful shapes including arches.  If your budget (like ours) does not run to Antarctic expeditions, I would strongly recommend you give Greenland cruising a go.  Once you experience "real" icebergs you will understand why, in Alaska, they are called "bergy bits"

 

You should be able to find beautiful images of icebergs online.

 

Just to warn you though, that a cousin and his wife did such an itinerary only around 3 weeks before our first one, and had to miss two of their Greenland ports due to icebergs blocking the harbour entrances.   Despite this they had been impressed by the icebergs they had seen and they too returned for a second (more successful) trip a few years later. 

 

"Icebergs blocking the harbour entrance" is one of these unpredictable reasons why a ship does not always make it into port.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by edinburgher

[Homosassa]

20 hours ago, rodiond said:

The ship and the crew was great, the entertainment were and food also very good - no complains here. Unfortunately we got unlucky with the weather - it was rainy, cold, and foggy all the way (end of June). I was expecting to see mountains, icebergs, and snow for the duration of the cruise but I guess my expectations were too high 🙂 

????

Are you talking about June 2022?

 

We were also on a seven day cruise, Vancouver to Seward that left June 24.  Weather were warm, sunny and clear. According to crew on board ship and locals in the ports, it had been the same weather pattern they had been experiencing for most of June.

 

Visibility at time was for miles (could see a snow topped mountain range 66 miles to our north in Juneau and down the pass from White Pass summit to Skagway port).

 

It definitely was not the Alaskan weather I packed for and expected.