Port taxes not refunded for missed port

[RoyalC]

Just found out we are not being refunded port tax after missing Puerto Vallarta last week. Is this legal? I am sure they would have paid port fees if allowed to dock. No substitute port is in play here to offset this.

[neverbeenhere]

How did you get the information?

 

Additional info: 

With Celebrity and parent company Royal Caribbean, a refund is not a slam dunk.

"We need to review situations of missed ports on a case-by-case basis, and base our decision on whether or not the port must be bypassed due to a weather-related problem (an 'act of God' nature), or a mechanical problem onboard the ship (which naturally becomes more the cruise line's responsibility)," Celebrity spokeswoman Elizabeth Jakeway said by e-mail. "After we've assessed the situation fully, we decide what the appropriate measures are -- which can vary from an onboard credit to complimentary beverages to an amenity of some kind."

So with some lines, if the ship misses a stop because of weather (or some other "act of God"), the money you gave the cruise line to pay the port is gone, even if the ship never touched that port. On a ship the size of Royal Caribbean's 3,600-passenger Freedom of the Seas, which likely pays some of the highest port fees there are, the company could, conservatively, collect $50,000 in fees for one port and neither pay it to the port nor refund it.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by neverbeenhere

[Coralc]

Why was Puerto Vallarta skipped? Sometimes they refund port fees and apparently, sometimes they don't. 

[Ashland]

13 minutes ago, Coralc said:

Why was Puerto Vallarta skipped? Sometimes they refund port fees and apparently, sometimes they don't. 

I believe if it's weather related they may not. Sometimes we've gotten them as an OBC to our folio sometimes not...so this can vary.

[RoyalC]

Hurricane related.  Information came from Miami via Diamond Concierge.

[Italy52]

We had a port stop in Catalina that we could not do as a result of winds --- no refund was given.

[smokeybandit]

They aren't obligated to refund port fees.  I don't know what makes them decide to do so or not (could be written into whatever contract they have with the missed port).

[not-enough-cruising]

Here is the story I was once told by a Guest Service “manager”

 

When you book your cruise, port fees are estimated, because the rates aren’t known until close to sailing time. 
 

Sometimes they estimate and collect a little high, more often than not the estimate is a little low.  Refunds are only given for missed ports of the call when Royal has collected more fees for the journey than they actually spent. 

[RoyalC]

40 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Here is the story I was once told by a Guest Service “manager”

 

When you book your cruise, port fees are estimated, because the rates aren’t known until close to sailing time. 
 

Sometimes they estimate and collect a little high, more often than not the estimate is a little low.  Refunds are only given for missed ports of the call when Royal has collected more fees for the journey than they actually spent. 

Interesting. Considering I was finally told this yesterday, with no ports left in the cruise,  maybe this is the case.

[ONECRUISER]

Until late 90's nobody ever got any missed Port Fees back. Was part of Class Action against Royal, along with many Cruise Critic Members.

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Here is the story I was once told by a Guest Service “manager”

 

When you book your cruise, port fees are estimated, because the rates aren’t known until close to sailing time. 
 

Sometimes they estimate and collect a little high, more often than not the estimate is a little low.  Refunds are only given for missed ports of the call when Royal has collected more fees for the journey than they actually spent. 

Sounds made up to me. Twice I've been booked for grand Cayman Jamaica and cozumel and changed to the lower port fees itinerary so to me already overcharged $20 or so and then we  missed costa maybe. I paid like $142 for what later showed as $127 I think. .. and then one port missed.

 

We had 6 ft waves and couldnt dock and got nothing refunded. Carnival refunds for missed ports. I agree with the OP it's almost misappropriation to collect port fees that arent used and no obc. We did fall into the weather related mentioned above rcl doesnt refund for. 

[Merion_Mom]

Before 2020, we always had those port fees refunded.

 

In early 2020, on what would turn out to be one of the last cruises before the shutdown, we were told, "Nope, too bad, so sad."

[thrifty99]

We missed a port on our Voyager cruise in September (Bar Harbor, Maine) due to hurricane Fiona. Water too rough for us to tender. 
 

We got on our account that day about $10 each in returned port fees. 

[Joseph2017China]

I once got a refund......it was $4.30.  I was able to buy half of a Beer.

[Jimbo]

13 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Here is the story I was once told by a Guest Service “manager”

 

When you book your cruise, port fees are estimated, because the rates aren’t known until close to sailing time. 
 

Sometimes they estimate and collect a little high, more often than not the estimate is a little low.  Refunds are only given for missed ports of the call when Royal has collected more fees for the journey than they actually spent. 

bs

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

bs

I agree, when they dont know theh make up a answer. Like I asked the diamond ambassador back a ways why liberty doesnt have the drink machines and was told covid. Not believable as other ships had them before covid. Many times I've heard them make up answers. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

bs

Please elaborate.

 

Nearly all port charges and fees are based on either vessel size, or capacity, which has nothing to do with occupancy.  So, they are fixed costs. As stated above, fees are divided by the "expected" occupancy or double occupancy.  When occupancy drops below what was "expected", then the per pax fee goes up, and they will use the unused fees from cancelled ports to cover this, rather than refund that charge and then charge you more to make up the shortage.  Have you never seen the many threads about Panama Canal cruises where the fees go up or down wildly during the booking process?

[lovesthebeach2]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Please elaborate.

 

Nearly all port charges and fees are based on either vessel size, or capacity, which has nothing to do with occupancy.  So, they are fixed costs. As stated above, fees are divided by the "expected" occupancy or double occupancy.  When occupancy drops below what was "expected", then the per pax fee goes up, and they will use the unused fees from cancelled ports to cover this, rather than refund that charge and then charge you more to make up the shortage.  Have you never seen the many threads about Panama Canal cruises where the fees go up or down wildly during the booking process?

This made sense to me.  Thanks for explaining it. We’ve missed ports in the past and only once received a credit. It’s not a big deal to us, especially now that we understand.

[Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Please elaborate.

 

Nearly all port charges and fees are based on either vessel size, or capacity, which has nothing to do with occupancy.  So, they are fixed costs. As stated above, fees are divided by the "expected" occupancy or double occupancy.  When occupancy drops below what was "expected", then the per pax fee goes up, and they will use the unused fees from cancelled ports to cover this, rather than refund that charge and then charge you more to make up the shortage.  Have you never seen the many threads about Panama Canal cruises where the fees go up or down wildly during the booking process?

Guess a way a cruise lines could make more money is just when they first list a cruise for sale is to jam pack it with port stops everyday....................then after final payment then go into the itinerary and start chopping ports stops off it and don't refund any money back to anyone on that ship.

 

Seems fair ?

 

Kind of dealing with your Panama Canal reference right now, sad part is though Royal hasn't come to me and said we are going to give you a refund, because we chopped some port stops off your itinerary...............This is for a Cruise on Radiance of the Seas October 2023..........Guess they are still working on my refund huh? Also the ship is pretty much FULL all ready, so they should be able to refund some port charges for axed ports. But you know we won't see it happen. They have been messing with this ships itinerary since the day it was posted.   

 

Only thing I'm sure of  it is we  are going through the Canal, because it starts in San Diego and ends in Tampa.........where else we are going is anyones guess?

Edited November 2, 2022 by Jimbo

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

bs

 

20 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I agree, when they dont know theh make up a answer. Like I asked the diamond ambassador back a ways why liberty doesnt have the drink machines and was told covid. Not believable as other ships had them before covid. Many times I've heard them make up answers. 

Not really. Once one takes a moment to understand how the entire process works, it makes perfect sense. 
Like it or not, it adds up. 

[ARandomTraveler]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Guess a way a cruise lines could make more money is just when they first list a cruise for sale is to jam pack it with port stops everyday....................then after final payment then go into the itinerary and start chopping ports stops off it and don't refund any money back to anyone on that ship.

 

Seems fair ?

 

Kind of dealing with your Panama Canal reference right now, sad part is though Royal hasn't come to me and said we are going to give you a refund, because we chopped some port stops off your itinerary...............This is for a Cruise on Radiance of the Seas October 2023..........Guess they are still working on my refund huh? Also the ship is pretty much FULL all ready, so they should be able to refund some port charges for axed ports. But you know we won't see it happen.

I don't think you're understanding what he's saying. They aren't making a profit off the port fees. They're just covering a shortage that they hadn't collected properly for other port stops. 
 

For your example, if the goal was to make more profit off of teeny tiny increments of money, they could just charge double the port fees, assuming the ship will sail half full, and then when it actually sails full they can have a champagne party and celebrate their extra $10/person that they get to keep (and to be fair to your point, $10/person for a 6,000 passenger ship is $60,000, which isn't a small amount of money, but on the flip side, when they've under-charged by $10/person, they're losing $60,000, which is why they keep the port fees).

 

I think it makes total sense. 

[Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

I don't think you're understanding what he's saying. They aren't making a profit off the port fees. They're just covering a shortage that they hadn't collected properly for other port stops. 
 

For your example, if the goal was to make more profit off of teeny tiny increments of money, they could just charge double the port fees, assuming the ship will sail half full, and then when it actually sails full they can have a champagne party and celebrate their extra $10/person that they get to keep (and to be fair to your point, $10/person for a 6,000 passenger ship is $60,000, which isn't a small amount of money, but on the flip side, when they've under-charged by $10/person, they're losing $60,000, which is why they keep the port fees).

 

I think it makes total sense. 

So all these extra port fees are thrown into a pot for all their ships? So I could actually be paying for some other ships short port fees?

 

Because you can bet sometimes they collect to much port fees from you because more passengers got on the sailing then they first though they were going to get on that sailing?

 

Are you understanding that? So how does that work?

 

Hate to see or know how those port fees are figured out for the World Cruise 274 days and all those ports........

Edited November 2, 2022 by Jimbo

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Guess a way a cruise lines could make more money is just when they first list a cruise for sale is to jam pack it with port stops everyday....................then after final payment then go into the itinerary and start chopping ports stops off it and don't refund any money back to anyone on that ship.

Except that based on a class action suit against NCL a couple decades ago, what is allowed to be included in "port taxes and fees" is strictly controlled, and is limited to direct pass through charges by governmental or quasi governmental agencies that are strictly related to the requirements for the ship entering the ports.

 

11 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

This is for a Cruise on Radiance of the Seas October 2023..........Guess they are still working on my refund huh?

And, has booking been stopped on this cruise one year in advance?  Nope.  Not sure how you can figure how many are actually going to sail on the cruise, even if nearly fully booked.  Port fee refunds generally don't go out until the ship has sailed.  The other fact is that the Panama Canal has just passed a new toll structure, to take effect on Jan 2023.  I would expect that your port fees were calculated on the toll structure in place when you booked, and could be considerably higher next year.

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

So all these extra port fees are thrown into a pot for all their ships? So I could actually be paying for some other ships short port fees?

Where was this said?

[Jimbo]

20 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Where was this said?

I'm just saying, say they  estimate when I book that the ship will sail with 2500 passengers, so I get charged an X amount to cover the entire port charges...........but when the ship  actually sails there are 3000 passengers..........okay so there now is a pretty good bet they have more port charges money then needed......if as you say port charges are done by the size of the ship. Where does that  extra money go? if they don't refund it to the passengers?

Edited November 2, 2022 by Jimbo