Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[Joker54]

1 minute ago, buncosquad said:

By "neatly," I mean by age, by mobility issues due to age, or they (and we) all one day die and so new demographics are catered to.

 

There is a reason why shore excursions are age limited.

 

Alas, people do grow old, even very old, and can't physically handle the demands of travel.

 

That's what I mean by "neatly."

 

Thank you for pre-judging me.

Oh your quite welcome 

[hcat]

42 minutes ago, buncosquad said:

By "neatly," I mean by age, by mobility issues due to age, or they (and we) all one day die and so new demographics are catered to.

 

There is a reason why shore excursions are age limited.

 

Alas, people do grow old, even very old, and can't physically handle the demands of travel.

 

That's what I mean by "neatly."

 

Thank you for pre-judging me.

dark thoughts!

[buncosquad]

28 minutes ago, hcat said:

dark thoughts!

I understand the need to be cautious in the U.S. about triggering people.

 

Fact is, demographics are changing, and in no small measure from younger generations now cruising while older generations can (or don't) any longer.

 

Just observations facing every industry. 

[dlh015]

2 hours ago, Joker54 said:

Good for you

 

please define travel neatly…..are you referring to those who can afford a 60K suite vs those who can only afford say 6k…….

I can’t wait to see your reply, after which I will put you on ignore so I no longer have to read your humble posts………

 

Sort of sounds like a poster who got knocked off a little bit ago...2N4(something)

[RichYak]

4 hours ago, calicakes said:

What is an IC? 

Insufferable Cruiser

[HopefulCruiser123]

3 hours ago, buncosquad said:

By "neatly," I mean by age, by mobility issues due to age, or they (and we) all one day die and so new demographics are catered to.

 

There is a reason why shore excursions are age limited.

 

Alas, people do grow old, even very old, and can't physically handle the demands of travel.

 

That's what I mean by "neatly."

 

Thank you for pre-judging me.

WOW!  Just Wow!

 

[Jim_Iain]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:09 PM, Covepointcruiser said:

Hard to believe any qualified butler would be without employment.   Silver Seas and Cunard are hiring.    There is a general shortage of employees for all cruise lines.   Doubt that Celebrity would let good employees go when so many other cruise lines are short of employees and eagerly hiring.

From speaking with our Butler on Edge he indicated many of the Butler's were offered positions on Silver Seas a sister cruise line.     Other's were offered positions including Restaurant Manager etc.  

 

Our Butler shared that in his career with Celebrity working up to his current job he had been a Dishwasher, aWaiter, a Cook and  a Bartender before accepting a position as a Butler.

[Susanb10567]

Boarding the Beyond in a sky suite tomorrow…the email I received today says the retreat includes “ your own butler” why do they send emails like this .it just adds insult to injury…we booked this cruise over 2 years ago when the Beyond sailings were just announced for my husband’s big birthday…was looking forward to having a butler help with some decorating like they have done in the past…I am disappointed with the change but to have that email sent just makes me more annoyed 😠…

we will have a great cruise but it is just the lack of attention to detail that bothers me..

[terrydtx]

8 minutes ago, Susanb10567 said:

Boarding the Beyond in a sky suite tomorrow…the email I received today says the retreat includes “ your own butler” why do they send emails like this .it just adds insult to injury…we booked this cruise over 2 years ago when the Beyond sailings were just announced for my husband’s big birthday…was looking forward to having a butler help with some decorating like they have done in the past…I am disappointed with the change but to have that email sent just makes me more annoyed 😠…

we will have a great cruise but it is just the lack of attention to detail that bothers me..

We board the Edge on the 13th in Sydney in a Sky Suite, I wonder if we will get that same misinformed email?  I would take it with me and ask for my Own Butler that was mentioned in the email.

[Susanb10567]

4 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

We board the Edge on the 13th in Sydney in a Sky Suite, I wonder if we will get that same misinformed email?  I would take it with me and ask for my Own Butler that was mentioned in the email.

My husband just said the same thing…

[DaKahuna]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

We board the Edge on the 13th in Sydney in a Sky Suite, I wonder if we will get that same misinformed email?  I would take it with me and ask for my Own Butler that was mentioned in the email.

Good luck.  Let us know how that works out for you.    😂
 

[TeeRick]

The switch to the non-dedicated Retreat butler team for Sky Suites has been discussed to death here.  Even as Celebrity marketing continues to promote the team concept as "better" (to poke us in the eye I guess).  If you really want and need a personalized, dedicated butler, the reality is you now have 2 options.  You either need to pay a lot more for a CS suite or above on Celebrity or choose another cruise line with a suite class that includes a dedicated butler.  Continuing to pay for Sky Suites and pining away for a true butler is an exercise in frustration that will ruin your cruise.   I did not use my butler much in many years of sailing suites on Celebrity, and my current direction has been to sail other lines' suites at a better price and without a butler.  No big deal for me anyway.  

[islabahia]

58 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

The switch to the non-dedicated Retreat butler team for Sky Suites has been discussed to death here.  Even as Celebrity marketing continues to promote the team concept as "better" (to poke us in the eye I guess).  If you really want and need a personalized, dedicated butler, the reality is you now have 2 options.  You either need to pay a lot more for a CS suite or above on Celebrity or choose another cruise line with a suite class that includes a dedicated butler.  Continuing to pay for Sky Suites and pining away for a true butler is an exercise in frustration that will ruin your cruise.   I did not use my butler much in many years of sailing suites on Celebrity, and my current direction has been to sail other lines' suites at a better price and without a butler.  No big deal for me anyway.  

100% correct.  We cancelled our X cruise and moved to a PH on Oceania (less expensive than X for more days and a butler).

[Tyler414]

My Beyond sailing departs in about 60 days, it is completely sold out as of this morning, other than........The Retreat.   I count over 21 available suits for this sailing, most are SS and MC Suites.  This seems opposite of my other E-class sailing I've been on, were the suits were usually first to sell out.  I wonder if the butler situation has anything to do with this?  

Hopefully this helps my move-up opportunity!! 

[Oceangoer2]

6 minutes ago, Tyler414 said:

I wonder if the butler situation has anything to do with this?  

More likely the suite price!

[jelayne]

3 minutes ago, Tyler414 said:

My Beyond sailing departs in about 60 days, it is completely sold out as of this morning, other than........The Retreat.   I count over 21 available suits for this sailing, most are SS and MC Suites.  This seems opposite of my other E-class sailing I've been on, were the suits were usually first to sell out.  I wonder if the butler situation has anything to do with this?  

Hopefully this helps my move-up opportunity!! 

We have a cruise that is 2 weeks from final payment.  A few months ago about 85% of the Sky Suite were showing booked.  Today that is down to 44%.  Prices have dropped but apparently not enough.  

We were booked in a MCSS and even with a price drop of $2500 the changes have convinced us that value is no longer there.

We downgraded to a SV recently when one opened up, saving over 11K, more than enough to cover the lost gratuities, OBC and pay for specialty dining.  

[TeeRick]

16 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

More likely the suite price!

I hope and think you are correct.  The only way to get the suite prices lowered would be for Celebrity to have a difficult time filling them.

[Tyler414]

13 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I hope and think you are correct.  The only way to get the suite prices lowered would be for Celebrity to have a difficult time filling them.

The MC Suite is $12,500 with gratuity for two.  😬

[paulh84]

24 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

More likely the suite price!

 

I nor anyone here knows what the target sold rate is at final payment, but if there are 21 cabins open that means 91% of suite inventory is booked at standard going rates without MoveUps being awarded yet. The base price for suites for that sailing appear to be in the $4,800/pp range. Prices trailed off slightly starting in May dipping below $7,000/pp. Upper level suites except 2 EV's are sold out. I don't think those numbers would create a strong case that prices scared people away. There is a base population of 1,448 other non-suite cabins also currently sold out that can bid on the remaining 21 suite cabins. That little bit of open suite space will take no time to fill.

[alexandria]

17 hours ago, Susanb10567 said:

Boarding the Beyond in a sky suite tomorrow…the email I received today says the retreat includes “ your own butler” why do they send emails like this .it just adds insult to injury…we booked this cruise over 2 years ago when the Beyond sailings were just announced for my husband’s big birthday…was looking forward to having a butler help with some decorating like they have done in the past…I am disappointed with the change but to have that email sent just makes me more annoyed 😠…

we will have a great cruise but it is just the lack of attention to detail that bothers me..

 

17 hours ago, terrydtx said:

We board the Edge on the 13th in Sydney in a Sky Suite, I wonder if we will get that same misinformed email?  I would take it with me and ask for my Own Butler that was mentioned in the email.

 

Starting your cruise vacation by confronting onboard Celebrity staff (who are not the decision-makers and don't send out the emails) with a copy of that email seems (to me, at least) like a miserable way to start the week for both you and the unfortunate Celebrity minions who will be the recipient of your displeasure or the displeasure of those who follow your recommended course of action.  Not to mention disingenuous for those who have spent the last four months or so in this thread discussing the elimination of "dedicated butlers."  But perhaps your comment was tongue-in-cheek.

 

It is what it is and the best option, IMO, for those who are dissatisfied with Celebrity's decision and the manner they have implemented it is to vote with your wallet and cruise another line!

 

Fair winds and following seas to those who are sailing in 2024!  🛳️ 

[billc23]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

I hope and think you are correct.  The only way to get the suite prices lowered would be for Celebrity to have a difficult time filling them.

I sure that Celebrity looks at metrics of suite pricing. If they are able to sell some percentage suites in each category at a high price to those who do not care about the price but just want a certain suite, and then fill the remaining with move up offers, they will collect more revenue than if they lowered the suite prices to sell more initially. I don't know what the percent they need to sell at the higher price but Celebrity does. I do know that if a suite class is sold at say 80% pre final payment that they will do better with the move up program to fill the 20% remaining inventory rather than lower the suite price to sell the 20% remaining. There are many moving parts to consider.

[chisoxfan]

14 minutes ago, billc23 said:

I sure that Celebrity looks at metrics of suite pricing. If they are able to sell some percentage suites in each category at a high price to those who do not care about the price but just want a certain suite, and then fill the remaining with move up offers, they will collect more revenue than if they lowered the suite prices to sell more initially. I don't know what the percent they need to sell at the higher price but Celebrity does. I do know that if a suite class is sold at say 80% pre final payment that they will do better with the move up program to fill the 20% remaining inventory rather than lower the suite price to sell the 20% remaining. There are many moving parts to consider.

I am sure they are using an algorithim to maximize profits. Any of us could achieve short term profits if we were put in charge..... raise drink prices, eliminate butlers, cut back on staff, food, etc. Being very stingy with any credits to unhappy passengers. The management will be 'rewarded' and then they can move on to their next position. The real chore is to maximize profits while retaining a loyal and enthusiastic cadre of loyal passengers. Unfortunately, just by sampling CC posts, they seem to be failing miserably at this more difficult task.  Maybe a more pressing algorithim for X to consider is what is the cost of lost passenger(s) and the future expense of trying to get them  back in the fold.  JMHO

[paulh84]

9 minutes ago, chisoxfan said:

I am sure they are using an algorithim to maximize profits. Any of us could achieve short term profits if we were put in charge..... raise drink prices, eliminate butlers, cut back on staff, food, etc. Being very stingy with any credits to unhappy passengers. The management will be 'rewarded' and then they can move on to their next position. The real chore is to maximize profits while retaining a loyal and enthusiastic cadre of loyal passengers. Unfortunately, just by sampling CC posts, they seem to be failing miserably at this more difficult task.  Maybe a more pressing algorithim for X to consider is what is the cost of lost passenger(s) and the future expense of trying to get them  back in the fold.  JMHO

 

The flaw with that logic is who is to say that the 'new' cruisers (the not unhappy ones) won't be the future loyal customers? This tiny group of people rage posting on CC over butlers and cookies and what not is far from wholly representative. Companies know that some customers will eventually move on and that is okay. Their occupancy rates and the growing deposits on the balance sheet suggest they are not struggling. 

[chisoxfan]

6 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

The flaw with that logic is who is to say that the 'new' cruisers (the not unhappy ones) won't be the future loyal customers? This tiny group of people rage posting on CC over butlers and cookies and what not is far from wholly representative. Companies know that some customers will eventually move on and that is okay. Their occupancy rates and the growing deposits on the balance sheet suggest they are not struggling. 

First of all we are talking long term trends. Many posters and customers continue to have booked cruises in place even while they proclaim they are leaving X. I get the 'new' customer argument but raising pricing and lowering standards doesn't seem to be a recipe for attracting new customers. If X changed direction to cater to a new demographic I can understand that but it is not what I see (unless the demo is people who just want to spend more). Much of the 'complaining' on CC has been from suite passengers which X has certainly catered to as they made an effort to design their newer ships around. While I can concur CC is not the entire cruise universe it does offer a reasonable perspective on what passionate cruisers are thinking.

I am sure we can all relate to products/ companies that we were fiercely loyal to for years that we eventually abandoned because they 'lost their way'. While some of them may have changed direction and thrived many just crashed.

I certainly don't claim to have a full understanding of X marketing plans but from the perspective of a relatively frequent cruiser I don't see genius at work here. JMHO

 

[goofysmom99]

5 hours ago, islabahia said:

We cancelled our X cruise and moved to a PH on Oceania (less expensive than X for more days and a butler).

Ditto.  Much nicer cabin, butler, beautiful shower (no silly bathtub/shower combo), and an impressive balcony with loungers, dining table, and chairs (Vista, Deck 7 PH2).  I'll be able to have room service from the main dining room AND specialty restaurants, unlike any category of suite on X now.  Oh, and there's a Retreat-like Concierge Lounge and Sun Deck (which I doubt I'll use any more than I do on X).

 

I still have a few cruises left on X but I'm also branching out to other, more sensibly-priced cruise lines that provide greater value.  That's something I never, ever thought I'd do as recently as 12 short months ago.  What a difference a year makes.