Future booked cruises with All Included? Tips no longer included.

[hankandteri]

40 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Not a chance they lower prices. 

 

Using 2024 numbers as an example since it's all I have access to. I know this is imperfect since not all suites always sell out, MoveUp bids do not get OBC, TA bookings likely have a lot more OBC etc, but I cannot account for those variables.  

 

93,045 suites available to fill in 2024. 

That equates to $55.8 million in OBC if each suite received $600.

 

On the other hand concerning gratuities:

4,556

cruise nights in 2024 

Average of $19.80 per pax per night 

At 100% occupancy on every sailing, total gratuities for 2024 would be $15.3 million. 

 

I know I am over simplifying this, but they aren't going to tweak a promo to save $70+ million dollars then turn around and reduce prices. 

 

 

 

 

I was wondering about the potential revenue boost from this latest move, and it’s positively huge. The math isn’t that hard. 
 

if you multiply 365 (days in a year) by $20 (gratuity per passenger per day, more or less) by 36,000 (Celebrity’s approximate fleet capacity), you get the total potential gratuity total for the year if the line sails at capacity as it has been lately. That formula doesn’t include the 20% food and beverage tips which don’t factor into this move. 
 

That gratuity income collected by Celebrity is about $262 MILLION, which is a great big pile of dinero. 

 

Not everyone has prepaid grats, of course, so this move won’t bring in the full quarter billion; but when you drop the grats from AI without lowering your fare for the many who do get the bundle at booking, you are pocketing some serious coin—way more than all the warm $2.40 cookies in the world could ever bring in.

 

if I knew what percentage of X guests received the AI bundle at booking, it would be easy to estimate the actual revenue boost to the line. Whatever it is, it’s a big, big bump. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by hankandteri

[Team Stag]

What I really don't like about this change, it potentially hurts their employees as well.  For me personally, if Tips are prepaid or part of the fare, I bring extra money for tipping and don't mind doing it.  If I know I'm going to see another $300 charge (or whatever it is) in addition to other incidentals, I'm going to be a little less inclined to go over and above to the people who truly deserve it. 

Wow - I just continue to be blown away by some of these decisions.  But I guess they have decided to do it fast and furious and establish what the "new normal" for Celebrity is going to be.  But it doesn't appear its going to be a place for me.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Team Stag

[poeticlicensed]

In my opinion, each change they make  is part of a laid out plan to change the direction of the company and make it more closely align with RCCL. I think the c suite looked at the future of cruising and decided its in the Caribbean, where profits are high, and its families, who have disposable income. Families generally don't take 14 day and longer cruises. They are firmly in the 3 to 7 day, where parents have to get back to work and kids to school and activities . So that's the new X focus, 3 to 7 day Caribbean cruises. 

 

RCCL made a huge investment in Cococay and they are gonna wring every dollar they can from it. The move to start sailing from Canaveral is part of it. Get those Disney family dollars. Mom and dad and grandparents bring the kids to Disney for several days of madness then are rewarded by a non Disney cruise that goes to Cococay for the kids. Thats a huge opportunity for X to cash in.

 

Taking away menu selections,  paying for little add ons, those  changes will only be known and felt by loyal customers, and that is clearly not the demographic they are chasing. Its simply not as lucrative. Do you think they've forgotten longtime cruisers exist? Nope, but in the macro, the new direction pays more. Will they lose some cruisers? Yup. But not enough to make it unattractive to move this direction.

 

The repackaging of all in to take away tips was probably on the drawing board last year. They figure people aren't gonna stiff the staff, and they want you in that bev page and wifi because they are huge moneymakers.

 

It is what it is. No amount of complaining is gonna change what is clearly a long range plan. Im not their sought after demo. So im not happy and will look elsewhere for future cruises.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

12 minutes ago, Team Stag said:

What I really don't like about this change, it potentially hurts their employees as well.  For me personally, if Tips are prepaid or part of the fare, I bring extra money for tipping and don't mind doing it.  If I know I'm going to see another $300 charge (or whatever it is) in addition to other incidentals, I'm going to be a little less inclined to go over and above to the people who truly deserve it. 

Wow - I just continue to be blown away by some of these decisions.  But I guess they have decided to do it fast and furious and establish what the "new normal" for Celebrity is going to be.  But it doesn't appear its going to be a place for me.

I've thought the same and can see "extra tipping" possibly not what it has been. If so, it's another cut to their dedicated employees.

[Cruise till you drop]

1 hour ago, Random Cruizer said:

Celebrity already annoyed me this summer by lowering the Classic package to $10 drinks and making me sign slips etc. for Pina Coladas.  With grats out of AI--I now see no reason for the package.  I'll just pay for my cans of coke zero and glasses of wine as a I go and the grats at the end.  No real need for internet at sea when I can use it in ports.  I'm not sure how much I'll be cruising with Celebrity going forward.  I liked the convenience of AI more than anything related to cost, and they've just made it all a more inconvenient.  Add that to a dining experience on Beyond last month that did not equal either of my cruises last summer, and I'm saying "meh" to Celebrity.

Having to get a slip to sign because your drink order is over $10 by $2 is very annoying 

 

I’m sure they get people to up their package to premium just to avoid signing those damn slips

Edited August 29, 2023 by Cruise till you drop

[JDPCruisers]

24 minutes ago, Older Sister said:

Aside from not being escorted on the ship, which was never a perk except for high end suites, how is the experience with the Retreat Butler and team? 
 

The only experience I’ve had with the butler/butler team is with the Retreat Concierge, who is stationed In Michaels Club and has been very helpful sorting out a few things.  As for the person who takes care of our cabin, I have no idea if he’s a Butler or part of a team or not.  He always says hello when I see him in the hall but he’s never asked if there’s anything we would like (like, ice or evening canapés).  We are enjoying our cruise but the service hasn’t lived up to our expectations.  

I would be interested if you asked the Retreat Concierge about how the Butler works for Sky Suites? 

[SmilingOctopus]

I'm curious to see the price difference for a given cruise on October 3rd vs 4th.

Will be interesting for sure 😄

[Baron Barracuda]

X keeps pushing prices up while taking actions that push their product down market.  It may work for a while but there's a lot of competition on the way that will test passengers loyalty.  Over the next five years Viking will be adding 6 new ships, Explora Journeys 5, MSC 3, Virgin Oceania Silversea and Princess 2 each, etc, etc.  That's a lot of new capacity offering a value proposition equal to or greater than X.  

[hcat]

52 minutes ago, Older Sister said:

Aside from not being escorted on the ship, which was never a perk except for high end suites, how is the experience with the Retreat Butler and team? 
 

The only experience I’ve had with the butler/butler team is with the Retreat Concierge, who is stationed In Michaels Club and has been very helpful sorting out a few things.  As for the person who takes care of our cabin, I have no idea if he’s a Butler or part of a team or not.  He always says hello when I see him in the hall but he’s never asked if there’s anything we would like (like, ice or evening canapés).  We are enjoying our cruise but the service hasn’t lived up to our expectations.  

How much in grats per day did u pay for a  Retreat Butler now not a Butler?

Seems you are not getting much for the enhanced grats.

 

Do you plan to give extra tips to Retreat Team?

 

Do you have access to water and soda in Michaels Club..and/ or  in your cabin,

 

sorry not up to expectations.. X used to promise it y

would "exceed expectations"

[Cap_D]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

In my opinion, each change they make  is part of a laid out plan to change the direction of the company and make it more closely align with RCCL. I think the c suite looked at the future of cruising and decided its in the Caribbean, where profits are high, and its families, who have disposable income. Families generally don't take 14 day and longer cruises. They are firmly in the 3 to 7 day, where parents have to get back to work and kids to school and activities . So that's the new X focus, 3 to 7 day Caribbean cruises. 

 

RCCL made a huge investment in Cococay and they are gonna wring every dollar they can from it. The move to start sailing from Canaveral is part of it. Get those Disney family dollars. Mom and dad and grandparents bring the kids to Disney for several days of madness then are rewarded by a non Disney cruise that goes to Cococay for the kids. Thats a huge opportunity for X to cash in.

 

Taking away menu selections,  paying for little add ons, those  changes will only be known and felt by loyal customers, and that is clearly not the demographic they are chasing. Its simply not as lucrative. Do you think they've forgotten longtime cruisers exist? Nope, but in the macro, the new direction pays more. Will they lose some cruisers? Yup. But not enough to make it unattractive to move this direction.

 

The repackaging of all in to take away tips was probably on the drawing board last year. They figure people aren't gonna stiff the staff, and they want you in that bev page and wifi because they are huge moneymakers.

 

It is what it is. No amount of complaining is gonna change what is clearly a long range plan. Im not their sought after demo. So im not happy and will look elsewhere for future cruises.

I agree here this seems what they want.  I am not sure it will work given their bastardized product.  It's neither what it was or enough for most families. 

 

While not typical, as someone that has a family with a kindergartner, I'm not pulling him from school or camp to go to CocoCay or a cruise at all.  Just ain't the message we would want to send and aren't that desperate for the nickel and dime experience.  A true international trip maybe.  And, none of the cruises go to CocoCay until Summer 2024.  (Local park has pool has a two slides and snack bar, and is $8 if we're super desperate. Plus is next to a warehouse club with all the frozen cheesecakes, prime steaks, and champagne we would never need).  That said, we don't need the ship to be a thrill park or chicken fingers banquet.  Child wants relaxed luxury too.   But, the ships aren't designed for more than a couple hundred kids at best, at peak, and thats being generous.  There's not enough amenities, appropriately timed shows or food that is on trend for upscale or downscale, at this point, with kids.  There isn't even a sport court or shuffle board painted on an underused part of the deck on Edge class. 

 

And, if we're going to Orlando it's for Disney cruise or park, and not to drive an hour to the port to do 4 days on a 20 year old ship or older tacked on to Disney.  That becomes 2 weeks. 

 

And, to contrast with Disney, personal experience and all evidence is if you trust in the experience, it will be reciprocated.  The shows will be themed and of a certain standard, it will be clean, rides will be amped up, cast members are encouraged to make magic, etc.  They think about things like how entertain while in line, etc.  Our recent experience at Disney was great.  I thought they cared, and was surprised how plenty was included without nickel and diming me, even with paying for the Genie and considering it part of the cost.  My son will remember going on a particular ride based on "magic" made by a cast member, and I left going it was worth it.  Same with a prior Celebrity cruise.  Yes, it was pricey, but the sum of the parts was worth it.   

 

Now, not sure anyone at Celebrity is worrying about creating positive experiences, has the right ingredients, or motives, not with the way they've been conducting themselves.  The survey for the last several months, cutbacks, and rollout would be a 0 in a scale of 1-10.     

Edited August 29, 2023 by Cap_D

[poeticlicensed]

10 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

I agree here this seems what they want.  I am not sure it will work given their bastardized product.  It's neither what it was or enough for most families. 

 

While not typical, as someone that has a family with a kindergartner, I'm not pulling him from school or camp to go to CocoCay or a cruise at all.  Just ain't the message we would want to send and aren't that desperate for the nickel and dime experience.  A true international trip maybe.  And, none of the cruises go to CocoCay until Summer 2024.  (Local park has pool has a two slides and snack bar, and is $8 if we're super desperate).  That said, we don't need the ship to be a thrill park or chicken fingers banquet.   But, the ships aren't designed for more than a couple hundred kids at best, at peak, and thats being generous.  There's not enough amenities, appropriately,  timed shoes or food that is on trend for upscale or downscale at this point with kids.  And, if we're going to Orlando it's for Disney cruise or park, and not to drive an hour to the port to do 4 days on a 20 year old ship or longer tacked on to Disney.  That becomes 2 weeks. 

 

And, to contrast with Disney, personal experience and all evidence is if you trust in the experience, it will be reciprocated.  The shoes will be themed and of a certain standard, it will be clean, rides will be amped up, cast members are encouraged to make magic, etc.  They think about things like how entertain while in line, etc.  Our recent experience at Disney was great.  I thought they cared, and was surprised how plenty was included without nickel and diming me, even with the Genie. 

 

Not sure anyone at Celebrity is worrying about creating positive experiences, not with the way they've been conducting themselves.  The survey for the last several months, cutbacks, and rollout would be a 0 in a scale of 1-10.     

There are many parents who take the kids to Disney, but will not do a Disney cruise or a cruise with roller coasters or water parks. I think X is priming themselves as the alternative to Disney cruises (which are wildly expensive) and Royals "turn it up to 11". I think X sees themselves as the reward for parents who don't want a theme park experience. 

 

And as someone who lives15 minutes from the mouse, I see tons of kids in the parks all year round. We never did that, I dont believe in pulling kids out of school for vacation. But believe me, there are plenty of parents who would. 

 

And again, I think this is a slow move to the a new Celebrity. It will take a couple of years, but by 2025 your experience will be very different. 

 

I think the demographic for cruising generally is changing and the different cruiselines are positioning themselves for where they want to be.

[kenb]

This is the breakdown of charges for my 3/23 cruise. When I go to manage my cruise the breakdown now shows $210 in prepaid tips. It is not included in the total if I add everything up. Yesterday is the first time they show the tips even though I have AI.

Guest 1$3,944.00

SAVOVERLAY NRD-$100.00

---

Guest 1 Total$3,844.00

Guest 2$3,944.00

SAVOVERLAY NRD-$100.00

RETREATBO75 NR-$2,884.00

---

Guest 2 Total$960.00

---

Room Sub-Total$4,804.00 USD$2,402 AVG/PERSON

---

$600.00 To Spend Onboard

Flights$2,181.58

Prepaid Tips$210.00

Taxes & Fees$344.94

---

Trip Total$7,330.52 USD

Amount PaidUSD

---

Amount Due$7,130.52 USD

By Tue Jan 02, 20

[Islander500]

4 hours ago, ohiolovescrusing said:

Depends on the pricing of future AI.  Now, I always compare with and w/o AI. And the first thing I do is remove the tips from AI.  Then say is $xx pp pd worth it for WIFI and Drinks?  Compare those numbers, and thoughts from other cruises and lines too.  Then decision. 

That's exactly what I do.  As Elite+, I won't ever choose AI without tips unless they reprice to lower the cost commensurately. Before this, that analysis was already a close call and I think Celebrity has ended up way ahead for the mere convenience of not having to sign slips. 

Of course, it presumes that with these "drip drip drip" but significant changes, some which are untenable for us like significant quality reductions on menus throughout, we will likely just move on.  The great responses to this thread has given us lots to consider. 

 

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

2 hours ago, hankandteri said:

I was wondering about the potential revenue boost from this latest move, and it’s positively huge. The math isn’t that hard. 
 

if you multiply 365 (days in a year) by $20 (gratuity per passenger per day, more or less) by 36,000 (Celebrity’s approximate fleet capacity), you get the total potential gratuity total for the year if the line sails at capacity as it has been lately. That formula doesn’t include the 20% food and beverage tips which don’t factor into this move. 
 

That gratuity income collected by Celebrity is about $262 MILLION, which is a great big pile of dinero. 

 

Not everyone has prepaid grats, of course, so this move won’t bring in the full quarter billion; but when you drop the grats from AI without lowering your fare for the many who do get the bundle at booking, you are pocketing some serious coin—way more than all the warm $2.40 cookies in the world could ever bring in.

 

if I knew what percentage of X guests received the AI bundle at booking, it would be easy to estimate the actual revenue boost to the line. Whatever it is, it’s a big, big bump. 

This change, from a financial standpoint, makes sense. And honestly, I'd rather them do this then cut things like pillow chocolates (pennies compared to the numbers you mention). 

[Jeremiah1212]

3 minutes ago, Islander500 said:

That's exactly what I do.  As Elite+, I won't ever choose AI without tips unless they reprice to lower the cost commensurately.

 

It was said today that prices would be 'reflective' of the new (and improved!) All Included offerings. We'll see. Interpret that as you wish. 

[terrydtx]

Who is going to be the last rat to jump ship?

[hcat]

Confirmed our "All In" will cover the grats for our 2024 and 2025 bookings

 

The changes could  easily blow over in the next few months.

Edited August 29, 2023 by hcat

[Cap_D]

15 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Who is going to be the last rat to jump ship?

Not sure, but seems like senior management that worked with former CEO (don't want my post erased) are gone.  This helps explain why the former head of TA sales or relationships left in Spring, too.  Blowing up the hold Celebrity had with TAs and their tools to close sales, and now have to craft a new paradigm. My sense was Celebrity was very much a sale based on positive word of mouth confirming brand image.  All the cruise lines have print and web ads that show happy people, and no kid (except maybe mine, Ben on Youtube, and "Gen Z") ask for Celebrity like they do Disney,  go karts, etc. 

 

I am concerned about the experienced hotel directors and maitre d's, and anyone that has worked with Celebrity for years, they pass down the culture.  If that isn't valued, then they may want to go somewhere else.  And, fear changes give everyone an excuse to provide less or make impossible for them to provide same level of device as in the past even with lesser ingredients.  On other hand, more crew will have their hand out looking for tips (annoying). *Had OBC left on last cruise, and spent night before embarkation getting form to guest services (had tired of casino work around, and better with crew anyway).

Edited August 29, 2023 by Cap_D

[suzyluvs2cruise]

2 minutes ago, hcat said:

Confirmed our "All In" will cover the grats fir our 2024 and 2025 bookings

 

The changes could  easily blow over in the a few months.

If you already had the bookings then there was never a question if they would be covered. This is only for new bookings starting Oct 4  '23

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, hankandteri said:

I was wondering about the potential revenue boost from this latest move, and it’s positively huge. The math isn’t that hard. 
 

if you multiply 365 (days in a year) by $20 (gratuity per passenger per day, more or less) by 36,000 (Celebrity’s approximate fleet capacity), you get the total potential gratuity total for the year if the line sails at capacity as it has been lately. That formula doesn’t include the 20% food and beverage tips which don’t factor into this move. 
 

That gratuity income collected by Celebrity is about $262 MILLION, which is a great big pile of dinero. 

 

Not everyone has prepaid grats, of course, so this move won’t bring in the full quarter billion; but when you drop the grats from AI without lowering your fare for the many who do get the bundle at booking, you are pocketing some serious coin—way more than all the warm $2.40 cookies in the world could ever bring in.

 

if I knew what percentage of X guests received the AI bundle at booking, it would be easy to estimate the actual revenue boost to the line. Whatever it is, it’s a big, big bump. 

Your calculations are based purely on your assumption that X will not reduce the AI prices by the amount of the tips i.e. they will be ineffect charging tips twice.That will be so easy to check that it would be a disaster for X. In addition X has already stated that pre paying the drinks and wifi' will be cheaper than buying it onboard again reducing X's room for manoeuvre. 

 

[Cruise till you drop]

27 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

If you already had the bookings then there was never a question if they would be covered. This is only for new bookings starting Oct 4  '23

Me thinks hcat was just sharing that they have confirmed that it’s true about no impact to existing bookings.  Glad hcat did this as sometimes you can’t believe everything you read

[cruisestitch]

So what of Concierge, inside, ocean view and verandas?  Can they still book the Always Included package with tips, Wi-Fi and beverage packages or has that changed too?

[hankandteri]

18 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Your calculations are based purely on your assumption that X will not reduce the AI prices by the amount of the tips i.e. they will be ineffect charging tips twice.That will be so easy to check that it would be a disaster for X. In addition X has already stated that pre paying the drinks and wifi' will be cheaper than buying it onboard again reducing X's room for manoeuvre. 

 

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m assuming. This has all the earmarks of a hidden price hike. Why else would they change a program people understood and liked? To better serve their valued guests?
 

Waiting more than a month before it goes into effect makes it more likely that no one will notice when prices don’t drop by the amount of the tips on Oct 5. And making the drink/wi-fi bundle cheaper than purchasing those two items a la carte once aboard isn’t connected in any way to the issue of paying the gratuities separately.

 

My educated guess is that this one move could capture on the order of 2-3% additional revenue for the cruise line that they would otherwise have to pay out as salary. Not a bad day’s work for the boys and girls in the C-Suite if it works. 
 

I have to give them credit. It’s pretty clever. 

[Gracie115]

39 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Your calculations are based purely on your assumption that X will not reduce the AI prices by the amount of the tips i.e. they will be ineffect charging tips twice.That will be so easy to check that it would be a disaster for X. In addition X has already stated that pre paying the drinks and wifi' will be cheaper than buying it onboard again reducing X's room for manoeuvre. 

 

 

It will...but....  nothing stops X from raising prices between now & then and then showing a "reduction" once this goes active.

 

I, for one, don't believe for a minute that this change will result in any kind of reduction in cost to the consumer. Nearly all the changes in the last 6 months have had the opposite effect, why should this be any different?

 

Think I'll go check a couple of cruises in 2024 for pricing and write it down and then check again in October....as you say...easy to compare.

[allinwonderland]

I have a booking for the new Ascent in November of 2024 - made it a few months ago (moving a deposit from an Equinox cruise I couldn't take). Just checked in my account and there's suddenly a new line item for prepaid tips in my booking statement, and the total amount due has gone up. So no, I don't think we can unequivocally say that this change will only affect bookings made after 10/4. Seems safe to say only that if you are past final payment by 10/4 then they're not going to tack on the extra charge (which would be god-awful if they did that, so no praise for doing the bare minimum).

 

I was really looking forward to experiencing Celebrity E-class, but at this rate, I have no idea whether I'll keep this one either. Who knows what they might change a year from now?