Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[D C]

19 minutes ago, maryann2 said:

My recent vaccination certificate here in BC has a bar code.

Any indication of what the code is used for? 

 

[nocl]

13 hours ago, D C said:

So some work required on your behalf.  Gotcha.  Annual flu shots + periodic tetanus shots seems to be the extent of adult vaccinations until this year, so little need to maintain records.  No clue how I'd find childhood records though. 

 

*edit*what "cruise-related" vaccines have you been getting? 

Unless one travels to less developed countries and areas then you have hep a/b, yellow fever, typhoid, etc.

[nocl]

2 minutes ago, D C said:

Any indication of what the code is used for? 

 

If it is a sticker than often drug information including lot number is in that form, you often see those on medicine bottles as well.

Edited March 26, 2021 by nocl

[4774Papa]

20 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I brought up the example of the oral, SARS-CoV-2 specific antiviral drug because I believe that in addition to requiring vaccinated passengers, cruise ships could carry a supply of an oral antiviral medication too.  If cheap and available.  Not likely that ships will treat people with IV and antibody therapeutics onboard.  I am thinking that people onboard who test COVID positive might be prescribed an oral antiviral.  Of course the clinical trials would have to support giving the oral antiviral to COVID positive asymptomatic people and to mild cases on board.  I think the issue of long-haulers is a whole different story and not really what I am trying to address here.

I have a friend that works for Merck and he told me Merck is working on such a drug that is very effective.

[maryann2]

Just now, D C said:

Any indication of what the code is used for? 

 

It says " scan this QR code or book online" to book the second dose.

 

[maryann2]

Just now, nocl said:

If it is a sticker than often drug information including lot number is in that form, you often see those on medicine bottles as well.

The lot number is hand written on the card.   Also the name of the vaccine.

Edited March 26, 2021 by maryann2

[deadzone1003]

8 minutes ago, nocl said:

If it is a sticker than often drug information including lot number is in that form, you often see those on medicine bottles as well.

More likely the information of where, what, and when the vaccination had taken place with a name or number assigned to it.  If it is a number, a number and name will be stored in a different database along with vaccination information.  It could contain the lot number of the vaccination so in case of problems, it can be easily traced.   

[cangelmd]

32 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I brought up the example of the oral, SARS-CoV-2 specific antiviral drug because I believe that in addition to requiring vaccinated passengers, cruise ships could carry a supply of an oral antiviral medication too.  If cheap and available.  Not likely that ships will treat people with IV and antibody therapeutics onboard.  I am thinking that people onboard who test COVID positive might be prescribed an oral antiviral.  Of course the clinical trials would have to support giving the oral antiviral to COVID positive asymptomatic people and to mild cases on board.  I think the issue of long-haulers is a whole different story and not really what I am trying to address here.

Good points. If the antivirals’ effectiveness holds up, then I think they may be used as you say. I only referred to long haul because there has been a lot of discussion about that and if antivirals prevent those sequelae, that lends weight to treating lower risk, less acutely ill people. There are 2 problems with all the therapeutic agents - antibodies and antiviral drugs- the more they get used, the less effective because the organism will become resistant. That’s why treatment won’t supplant an effective vaccine. That’s the big issue. The other problem is figuring out who to treat and who might never get sick.

You can see how that decision might be different on a ship in the middle of the ocean than at your doctor’s office, but both physicians will want to treat because that’s kinda what we do.

[mayleeman]

Noo need for cards. Won't they just activate the nanobots that will be in our brains?

 

Sorry, just an attempt at jab humor....

[zitsky]

29 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Noo need for cards. Won't they just activate the nanobots that will be in our brains?

 

Sorry, just an attempt at jab humor....

 

Another conspiracy theory, maybe?  😆 

[Ken the cruiser]

Yay for J&J starting to ramp it up!!

 

Johnson & Johnson to deliver 11 million vaccine doses next week, Biden administration says (nbcnews.com)

[nocl]

2 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Good points. If the antivirals’ effectiveness holds up, then I think they may be used as you say. I only referred to long haul because there has been a lot of discussion about that and if antivirals prevent those sequelae, that lends weight to treating lower risk, less acutely ill people. There are 2 problems with all the therapeutic agents - antibodies and antiviral drugs- the more they get used, the less effective because the organism will become resistant. That’s why treatment won’t supplant an effective vaccine. That’s the big issue. The other problem is figuring out who to treat and who might never get sick.

You can see how that decision might be different on a ship in the middle of the ocean than at your doctor’s office, but both physicians will want to treat because that’s kinda what we do.

Of course with COVID by the time the symptoms occur the damage (cytokine storms for example) is already under way so the antivirals would need to be given quickly.  Clinicals trials with the treatments so far have demonstrated that any delay greatly reduces their effectiveness. 

[markeb]

12 minutes ago, nocl said:

Of course with COVID by the time the symptoms occur the damage (cytokine storms for example) is already under way so the antivirals would need to be given quickly.  Clinicals trials with the treatments so far have demonstrated that any delay greatly reduces their effectiveness. 

 

That's the great Catch-22 here. By the time you know to use the antiviral, it may not contribute much to the outcome. And if you use it too early, you're almost certainly treating people who didn't actually need it.

 

The search for that broad spectrum, innocuous, oral antiviral is pretty much the search for holy grail. Without the comic relief...

[UnorigionalName]

36 minutes ago, markeb said:

The search for that broad spectrum, innocuous, oral antiviral is pretty much the search for holy grail. Without the comic relief...

 

Now what if instead of oral, they made it intramuscular?  And what if it lasted long enough that you can give it way before people are symptomatic? And what if you made it cheap enough that you could give it to everyone?

 

I don't understand why everyone is searching for another holy grail... We kind of have one already...

 

[nocl]

3 hours ago, markeb said:

 

That's the great Catch-22 here. By the time you know to use the antiviral, it may not contribute much to the outcome. And if you use it too early, you're almost certainly treating people who didn't actually need it.

 

The search for that broad spectrum, innocuous, oral antiviral is pretty much the search for holy grail. Without the comic relief...

That would make a good Monty Python skit.  The Search for a broad spectrum innocuous oral antiviral.

 

It has a certain ring to it.

[wrk2cruise]

NC does have a state Covid vaccine database.  The provider who administers the shot registers all recipients.  After they submit the registration you receive an email with an invitation to logon (email includes your username and instructions).   I got my first shot 2 weeks ago and have not received my invitation yet.  DW had hers earlier and got a login and it displays her verification of vaccination.

 

From what I've read on the state system, providers are required to register everyone as that's how all the federal reporting is handled.  I believe the providers get $$ for doing the dose administration as well.

 

My info is showing in the providers MyChart records.

 

When I go for my second shot I'm going to confirm with the provider they have my correct email etc.

 

https://covid-vaccine-portal.ncdhhs.gov

[D C]

6 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

Now what if instead of oral, they made it intramuscular?  And what if it lasted long enough that you can give it way before people are symptomatic? And what if you made it cheap enough that you could give it to everyone?

 

I don't understand why everyone is searching for another holy grail... We kind of have one already...

 

So what you're proposing is some sort of substance that I presume would be 'injected' (for lack of a better term) into a muscle that would somehow prepare the body to 'fight off' (again, grasping for simple terms) the 'germs'? As in do this before the germs ever show up? And give it to everyone? Sounds like crazy talk to me. 

[D C]

4 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

NC does have a state Covid vaccine database.  The provider who administers the shot registers all recipients.  After they submit the registration you receive an email with an invitation to logon (email includes your username and instructions).   I got my first shot 2 weeks ago and have not received my invitation yet.  DW had hers earlier and got a login and it displays her verification of vaccination.

 

From what I've read on the state system, providers are required to register everyone as that's how all the federal reporting is handled.  I believe the providers get $$ for doing the dose administration as well.

 

My info is showing in the providers MyChart records.

 

When I go for my second shot I'm going to confirm with the provider they have my correct email etc.

 

https://covid-vaccine-portal.ncdhhs.gov

Michigan has nothing of the sort. I'm going to call my county health department to find out how it's being handled record-wise (I got jabbed in a different county though). 

 

I'm also going to call my employer where I've gotten about 18 of my past 20 flu shots (and where I can get yellow fever and other "international" shots if traveling for work) to see what they do for records. 

[markeb]

8 minutes ago, D C said:

So what you're proposing is some sort of substance that I presume would be 'injected' (for lack of a better term) into a muscle that would somehow prepare the body to 'fight off' (again, grasping for simple terms) the 'germs'? As in do this before the germs ever show up? And give it to everyone? Sounds like crazy talk to me. 

Gamma globulin. Did you ever serve in the military? A shot of GG in each cheek followed by a 12 hour flight in a jump seat...  Exact same theory. Now there’s a HEP A vaccine. 

 

BTW, no, that’s what he’s suggesting. It’s more a question of using an IM med during the early symptomatic or immediately pre symptomatic phase rather than an oral med. Because once symptoms appear, an antiviral is going to have a limited impact on the disease. 

[D C]

24 minutes ago, markeb said:

Gamma globulin. Did you ever serve in the military? A shot of GG in each cheek followed by a 12 hour flight in a jump seat...  Exact same theory. Now there’s a HEP A vaccine. 

 

BTW, no, that’s what he’s suggesting. It’s more a question of using an IM med during the early symptomatic or immediately pre symptomatic phase rather than an oral med. Because once symptoms appear, an antiviral is going to have a limited impact on the disease. 

I think we were both talking about vaccines, Mark 🙂 Tried to make it as dripping as possible with sarcasm 🙂

[markeb]

1 minute ago, D C said:

I think we were both talking about vaccines, Mark 🙂 Tried to make it as dripping as possible with sarcasm 🙂

Long week. Sometimes miss the humor. 😀  And I’m known for sarcasm! 😇

[D C]

5 minutes ago, markeb said:

Long week. Sometimes miss the humor. 😀  And I’m known for sarcasm! 😇

TGIF! 

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, markeb said:

 

That's the great Catch-22 here. By the time you know to use the antiviral, it may not contribute much to the outcome. And if you use it too early, you're almost certainly treating people who didn't actually need it.

 

The search for that broad spectrum, innocuous, oral antiviral is pretty much the search for holy grail. Without the comic relief...

My comments on the oral antiviral were specific to the case of a cruise ships keeping them on board.  And their use (if approved by regulatory agencies) would be for treating COVID-positive individuals and would then apply to passengers on board during a cruise.  Let the clinical trials and FDA (or EMEA) decide if oral antivirals have merit to COVID-positive people and at what stage of disease.  That is all I am saying here.  An option beyond what we have now.   Assuming vaccinated-only cruises for awhile.  And what to do with breakthrough cases on board after testing.

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

Now what if instead of oral, they made it intramuscular?  And what if it lasted long enough that you can give it way before people are symptomatic? And what if you made it cheap enough that you could give it to everyone?

 

I don't understand why everyone is searching for another holy grail... We kind of have one already...

 

Oral antiviral drugs are in development for COVID and specific oral antivirals have been treating many other viral diseases for years.  So just good science applied to the current COVID problem.  Hopefully with success.  Miracle or Holy Grail not needed.   

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, D C said:

So what you're proposing is some sort of substance that I presume would be 'injected' (for lack of a better term) into a muscle that would somehow prepare the body to 'fight off' (again, grasping for simple terms) the 'germs'? As in do this before the germs ever show up? And give it to everyone? Sounds like crazy talk to me. 

Sounds like a vaccine.