CDC Lifts Cruise Ban

[Milwaukee Eight]

10 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

And RCI always has to be last because.....

$$$

[orville99]

16 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

And RCI always has to be last because.....

Based on what RCL posted to its website, it will be a while before any Revenue cruises sail:

 

CDC Conditional Sailing Order: Positive Step Toward Sailing Again

Last updated October 30th, 2020

Today’s announcement establishes a pathway for our ships to return to service, and that’s an important step in the right direction.

While we are eager to welcome our guests back on board, we have a lot to do between now and then, and we’re committed to taking the time to do things right. This includes training our crew in new health and safety protocols and conducting a number of trial sailings to stress-test those protocols in real-world conditions.

We will continue to work closely with both CDC and the Healthy Sail Panel as we make our plans, and we are confident in our ability to mitigate the risks of the pandemic and protect the health of our guests, our crew, and the communities where we sail.

[Domino D]

23 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Except in this case it seems the risk is being transferred to the cruise lines - no such transfer happens with any other industry that I know of.

 

18 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Cruise Lines are not from the US. Most all flagged elsewhere. 

Cruise ships are not like other forms of travel or even other businesses.  You spend a long time together, there can be large gatherings on board, you are exposed to many people, and you go to multiple places (where you are potentially exposed to more people).  It's math.  A cruise is the cumulative risk factors of a plane + a hotel + a spa + a gym + a theater + a restaurant + a bar + international travel.  Those are all things that they suggest you limit doing, and a cruise involves all of them.  Add to that the proven history of virus spread on a cruise ship (when is the last time you heard of a Noro Virus outbreak on a plane), and you come to their cumulative concern.  I think the rules being put in place are about recognizing the increased likelihood and not transferring risk.  The amount of restrictions being put on cruising is likely proportionate to the amount of risk.  

 

Plus M8 is right, while we as faithful cruisers want our vacation choice back, the government ( no matter who you vote for) have no reason at all to care about getting these companies back up and running.  There are major parts of our economy that are suffering as much as the cruise lines, have much lower risk factors, and employ 100 times the number of American's.  

 

Don't misunderstand, I'm very happy they are finding ways to get cruising in the US started, but also think there is reason to be cautious.  I get that for many (probably most) people even if they are exposed to Covid it won't lead to a fatal condition, but if one of these early cruises leads to a major outbreak (high double digits) and/or a community outbreak is traced back to someone contracting Covid on a cruise, things will be 10 times worse for the industry.  Whether we think it is fair or not, they can't afford to make a mistake. 

[NavArch64]

Here is a draft of the missing final paragraph ....

 

"Please bear with us as we review and modify all of our ship deployments and planned itineraries in order meet the terms and conditions of the CDC Framework for Conditional Sailing dated Oct. 30, 2020. We will then need to decide which ships we can sail at any given time and prepare and submit the necessary application materials for each ship selected to the CDC for their approval. This will be a process that will take weeks, if not months, to accomplish for our fleet across our brands." 

Edited November 2, 2020 by NavArch64

[Domino D]

31 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

And RCI always has to be last because.....

 

21 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

$$$

They can't think of reason or benefit to not waiting until the last minute?  So not why are they last, "Why not be last?"

OR

Maybe they have the hardest time updating their systems.

[not-enough-cruising]

10 hours ago, Domino D said:

Well 1 out of 3 ain't bad.  There is now evidence that UV light is effective against Covid 19.  Many building codes require UV filtering for other reasons, so I wouldn't say they wasted their money.  I don't know of any evidence that the virus is spread through HVAC.  

I never said UV light wasn’t effective, we have been using it in the OR and ER for about 30 years. The UV concentration able to be gained in a air handling system is not sufficient to kill any pathogen as compared to the amount of air volume generated. If it did hospitals built in the last 20 years or so would have been designed with this system as standard, instead they use portable machines that roll room to room and perform a UV sanitation cycle that precludes a human being even being inside the same room as the machine during its operation.  

[orville99]

15 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

Here is a draft of the missing final paragraph ....

 

"Please bear with us as we review and modify all of our ship deployments and planned itineraries in order meet the terms and conditions of the CDC Framework for Conditional Sailing dated Oct. 30, 2020. We will then need to decide which ships we can sail at any given time and prepare and submit the necessary application materials for each ship selected to the CDC for their approval. This will be a process that will take weeks, if not months, to accomplish for our fleet across our brands." 

Source please.

[keyboardjunkie]

13 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Your dentist wasted $50K, there is zero scientific evidence that UV ventilation does anything (nor is there any evidence the virus can live in or be spread by heating and cooling air handlers)

Not exactly "zero evidence", since a Nobel Prize was awarded back in 1903 for proving that UV light can, in fact, kill germs, ref: The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 1903 [Internet]. Stockholm: Nobel Prize; c2020 [cited 2020 May 15]. Available from: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1903/summary., 

 

Although, there may not be specific evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has been spread through AC ductwork, there is ample evidence that airborne bacteria and viruses can be spread through AC systems, particularly when they have not been maintained properly, which was the case with Legionnaires disease back in 1976. 

 

As a child, our daughter was highly allergic and our doctor recommended we install both a UV light and high density HEPA class filter in our home Heat/AC system. It significantly improved her, and our, health.

 

She is now grown and we have moved. In our new home we still paid the extra money to have our AC contractor install the UV light and HEPA filter and, in case there's a question, it was roughly 10-15% of the system cost to add it.

 

Will it be 100% effective? No. However, given our experience, it does make a significant, positive difference.

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Cruise Lines are not from the US. Most all flagged elsewhere. 

The imposition on cruise lines of having to develop what the CDC is asking (laboratories and taking care of anyone who tests positive) is not happening anywhere else that I know of. If you are a German citizen and come off a Tui ship (registered in Malta) in Kiel with a positive test, the German gov't doesn't require the cruise line to foot the whole bill to test, quarantine and treat the passenger.

 

If you are an American with health insurance (RCI could limit passengers to that) what diff does it make where you picked up COVID?

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Cruise Lines are not from the US. Most all flagged elsewhere. 

The imposition on cruise lines of having to develop what the CDC is asking (laboratories and taking care of anyone who tests positive) is not happening anywhere else that I know of. If you are a German citizen and come off a Tui ship (registered in Malta) in Kiel with a positive test, the German gov't doesn't require the cruise line to foot the whole bill to test, quarantine and treat the passenger.

 

If you are an American with health insurance (RCI could limit passengers to that) what diff does it make where you picked up COVID?

[crewsweeper]

20 hours ago, keyboardjunkie said:

 

I must chime in and disagree with the statement regarding deaths. Deaths are not decreasing.  In the past 7 days the US death rate has been:

 

Oct. 31  823

Oct. 30  1009

Oct. 29  1055

Oct. 28  1060

Oct. 27   901

Oct. 26  483

Oct. 25  380

 

The average 7 day average has remained fairly constant (815 - 797).  COVID still has a significant hold on the US population. 

 

Every one of these deaths was someone's loved one.

 

Source: CDC

 

You are correct in that every death, regardless of cause was someone's loved ones.

 

we need to take the daily tolls for CoVid-19 with a grain of salt.  Not that they are wrong or over/under count; they are simple the data reported that day by various reporting agencies.  Some of these agencies dump data daily, some weekly, some every 2 weeks.  What's key, in even these daily reportings  of over 1,000 deaths is that the average overall is still less than 1% per 100,000. Back in the spring it was nearly 5% at times.  

 

Most of the deaths do have other illnesses that weaken the immune system and contribute to rapid deterioration of persons health.  People who have died solely from CoVid-19 are very very few.  but my point is that CoVid-19 is NOT the death sentence some believe it to be.  We've moved on from where we were even 5 months ago in treatment and are progressing toward vaccines. 

 

Neither treatment nor vaccines alone will end the reign of CoVid-19.  It could well be with us for a long time in some strain or another.  But we're moving to control how dangerous it is to society as a whole.

[jg51]

57 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

Here is a draft of the missing final paragraph ....

 

"Please bear with us as we review and modify all of our ship deployments and planned itineraries in order meet the terms and conditions of the CDC Framework for Conditional Sailing dated Oct. 30, 2020. We will then need to decide which ships we can sail at any given time and prepare and submit the necessary application materials for each ship selected to the CDC for their approval. This will be a process that will take weeks, if not months, to accomplish for our fleet across our brands." 

 

41 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Source please.

.

{Smile} We do believe that the "draft" posted by "NavArch64" was just a bit of satire, "orville99."  We don't think that you will receive a "source."

[NavArch64]

I was tempted to say that the source was a wireless transmitter in Richard Fain's office ... but, of course, that would not be true.

[broberts]

52 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

The imposition on cruise lines of having to develop what the CDC is asking (laboratories and taking care of anyone who tests positive) is not happening anywhere else that I know of. If you are a German citizen and come off a Tui ship (registered in Malta) in Kiel with a positive test, the German gov't doesn't require the cruise line to foot the whole bill to test, quarantine and treat the passenger.

 

If you are an American with health insurance (RCI could limit passengers to that) what diff does it make where you picked up COVID?

 

I can think of two reasons for the CDC position. The first is that the CDC can not assume or insist all passengers have adequate health insurance. The second might be to encourage cruise line compliance. If a company is on the hook for treatment it is much more likely to vigorously enforce mitigation protocols.

 

48 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

...

Most of the deaths do have other illnesses that weaken the immune system and contribute to rapid deterioration of persons health.  People who have died solely from CoVid-19 are very very few.  but my point is that CoVid-19 is NOT the death sentence some believe it to be.  We've moved on from where we were even 5 months ago in treatment and are progressing toward vaccines. 

...

 

I doubt there are many deaths of any kind that can be attributed to a single cause.

 

While almost all COVID-19 sufferers will not die, it is so infectious that left unchecked it would kill millions of Americans. So while not necessarily a death sentence on an individual basis, the collective impact is enormous.

Edited November 2, 2020 by broberts
Stupid autocorrect

[orville99]

36 minutes ago, jg51 said:

 

.

{Smile} We do believe that the "draft" posted by "NavArch64" was just a bit of satire, "orville99."  

As was my request for a "source"😷

[BermudaBound2014]

12 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I can think of two reasons for the CDC position. The first is that the CDC can not assume or insist all passengers have adequate health insurance. The second might be to encourage cruise line compliance. If a company is on the hook for treatment it is much more likely to vigorously enforce mitigation protocols.

 

An interesting side note about health insurance. It appears that the Bahamas are requiring all visitors to purchase their health insurance. This came from Cruise Industry News so I'm assuming it applies to cruise ship travelers also. I imagine other islands will follow:

 

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23797-bahamas-announces-updated-travel-and-entry-protocols.html

 

[livingonthebeach]

2 hours ago, sandebeach said:

NCL just cancelled cruises for December and Carnival has removed December cruises out of Miami from their website. RC should announce their December cruises shortly. 

 

Thanks.  I didn't see you had posted this before I started the thread on NCL, Oceania and Regent.  Surprisingly, RCI still has bookable December sailings on their website.  Yes, always the last to cancel.  

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

If you are an American with health insurance (RCI could limit passengers to that) what diff does it make where you picked up COVID?

What about the healthcare professionals. Should they have to bare the brunt of an outbreak onboard?  Cruising is far from essential activity. 

 

Currently, the US Government is paying a bonus on COVID19 patients as well as the uninsured. We (US) will be paying for this eventually. I don’t particularly want my hard earned money going to fund someone on a cruise vacation who gets COVID19. 
 

M8

[Ocean Boy]

50 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

What about the healthcare professionals. Should they have to bare the brunt of an outbreak onboard?  Cruising is far from essential activity. 

 

We have always had to deal with the aftermath of others' poor decisions and indiscretions.

[kirtihk]

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

As was my request for a "source"😷

"CDC Says Cruises Can Set Sail Again But Passengers Will Not Be Allowed On Board" - that's the best sarcasm of all !!!  One couldn't come up with any better!  It is brilliant! Superb!  Nothing to add here!!!!!!!!!  We shall meditate with this mantra a few times a day in free time (what else to do on one's couch that "needs you", anyway) for next several months.

[travelhound]

17 hours ago, smalltimecruiser100 said:

It might have been asked in this tread before and you will excuse me for asking but does anyone think a vaccine will shorten the CDC Nov 1, 2021 guideline to an earlier date when the general population would have received it and of course those willing to take the vaccine?

Absolutely

[Milwaukee Eight]

12 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

We have always had to deal with the aftermath of others' poor decisions and indiscretions.

Well, it sounds like the CDC is attempting to properly deal with it. 
 

I’m pro business and believe things should be open as much as possible. A cruise line, vacation, non essential, just doesn’t qualify in my opinion. They shouldn’t be allowed to dump infected people off into US Ports. People should know this before they board. 
 

M8

[grandgeezer]

13 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

"CDC Says Cruises Can Set Sail Again But Passengers Will Not Be Allowed On Board" - that's the best sarcasm of all !!!  One couldn't come up with any better!  It is brilliant! Superb!  Nothing to add here!!!!!!!!!  We shall meditate with this mantra a few times a day in free time (what else to do on one's couch that "needs you", anyway) for next several months.

 

Until recently, most sports, professionals and college, have been played without fans, why not cruising? Maybe they sell broadcasting rights ,I'm sure the cruising zealots would pay.

[Sunshine3601]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Thanks.  I didn't see you had posted this before I started the thread on NCL, Oceania and Regent.  Surprisingly, RCI still has bookable December sailings on their website.  Yes, always the last to cancel.  

Keep in mind someone can still book for december 2020 then L&S it.  

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Keep in mind someone can still book for december 2020 then L&S it.  

 

Yes, that’s true and most of us here know those sailings aren’t going to happen so there’s always the L&S possibility.