Thoughts on Cuba cruises resuming

[Zach1213]

28 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

Stop supporting and disassociate itself from brutal regimes like Maduro Venezuela and Iran would be a very nice gesture and well received in Washington. The Cuba issue isn't about tourism. It is about a communist government constantly picking fights and going out of its way to antagonize USA dating back to the 1960's.  It doesn't need to be this way.

 

Hell, I'll play this game since this will all probably get deleted anyways.

 

US can stop supporting and disassociate itself from brutal regimes like China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia would be a very nice gesture and well received in a lot of the world and by a lot of Americans. 

 

The US doesn't really give a damn about communism anymore. This isn't 1965. Relationships with China, Vietnam, and Laos go to show that the US doesn't really care about either communist or quasi-communist countries. 

[sfaaa]

26 minutes ago, richstowe said:

Umm. Some of the posts remind me of the bully sitting on the small kid saying , why are you hitting yourself,  why are you hitting yourself ,as he smacks the easy victim . I guess it's easier to bully Cuba rather then bigger counties .

Suck it up. You don't have to like it but that's how things work in the real world. 

[K32682]

55 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

Stop supporting and disassociate itself from brutal regimes like Maduro Venezuela and Iran would be a very nice gesture and well received in Washington. The Cuba issue isn't about tourism. It is about a communist government constantly picking fights and going out of its way to antagonize USA dating back to the 1960's.  It doesn't need to be this way.

 

Below is a link to a countries and their positions on Maduro. Note that Russia, China, Brazil, Turkey (a NATO member,) Bolivia and Nicaragua have the same position as Cuba. Of course it's easy for America to beat its chest about Cuba but is quite timid when it comes to applying the same criteria to more powerful countries.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47053701

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by K32682

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

And closely aligned with countries like China, Iran, Venezuvila just to name a few. Nothing has changed despite what you said.

 

And yet, amazingly, US citizens are allowed to visit China, Iran, Venezuela.....

[donaldsc]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Stop supporting and disassociate itself from brutal regimes like Maduro Venezuela and Iran would be a very nice gesture and well received in Washington. The Cuba issue isn't about tourism. It is about a communist government constantly picking fights and going out of its way to antagonize USA dating back to the 1960's.  It doesn't need to be this way.

 

Have you ever noticed that the US strikes back at small countries that don't have the power to hurt us but tolerates larger countries with a worse human rights record but with the power to hurt us.  This is the dictionary definition of the word "bully" - 

 

"a person who habitually seeks to harm or intimidate those whom they perceive as vulnerable.

"he is a ranting, domineering bully"

 

DON

[evandbob]

{I'm hoping that this thread doesn't devolve into political BS like the thread in the Ask a Cruise Question section has.}

[BlerkOne]

Castro hated cruise ships. It is our duty as Americana to cruise there.

[Charles4515]

31 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Castro hated cruise ships. It is our duty as Americana to cruise there.

 

I don't know if that is true or not but cruise ships called on Cuba while he was President. Just not cruise ships from the US. He was alive when the first cruises began from the US. 

[dolittle]

What can they do ? .How about having an election every 50 years or so . I know if those in charge really cared about the ''people '' they would make peace with the U.S. FOR the people of Cuba .Instead of going backwards from the richest country in the area to the poorest . Stop being right and do the smart thing.

[cruising cockroach]

It's a stoo-pid 60 year grudge the U.S. holds.   Little harmless mouse just scares or maybe merely irritates the elephant next door.  Little mouse that won't accede to the whims of its omnipotent neighbour.

 

Cuba has never declared war on the U.S. s no peace to be made. The U.S. did invade Cuba to wrest control of it from Spain.

[Moviela]

As you leave the ship in Cuba there is a sign reminding you to set your watch back fifty years.

[iancal]

Given a choice between somewhere like St. Thomas and  Cuba.......we would always select Cuba.

[donaldsc]

13 minutes ago, iancal said:

Given a choice between somewhere like St. Thomas and  Cuba.......we would always select Cuba.

 

Given a choice of any of the Caribbean islands and Cuba (Yes - I know that Cuba is not actually a Caribbean island), I would pick Cuba any day.  The island is more interesting.  The people are more friendly and not out to rip you off of your last cent.  It is a safer place to wander around.  I will admit that I have not done many Caribbean cruise but I can not say that about any of them I have visited.

 

DON

[Zach1213]

8 hours ago, iancal said:

Given a choice between somewhere like St. Thomas and  Cuba.......we would always select Cuba.

 

I would choose St. Thomas because I love St. John and can spend the day on the beach there. 

 

Been to Cuba a couple of times using my non-US passport...it's fine. I've seen the resort Cuba and the real Cuba, they're enjoyable, but I would definitely choose USVI over Cuba for a pure vacation, personally. 

[K32682]

Cuba is not with some criticisms as a resort location. It does not have the uber high luxury resorts found on some of the more exclusive Caribbean islands so if $10,000 dollar a night resorts are in your snack bracket it may not be the place for you. 

[SelectSys]

21 hours ago, LHT28 said:

You must be using a computer or cell phone to post here

Wonder where it was made ???

Maybe you should stop supporting Communist regimes  as well

Just saying

Really our political leaders in conjunction with corporate lobbyists made that choice for us whether it be smart phones or the myriad of goods sold at WalMart. 

Just saying

 

20 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

US can stop supporting and disassociate itself from brutal regimes like China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia would be a very nice gesture and well received in a lot of the world and by a lot of Americans. 

 

The US doesn't really give a damn about communism anymore. This isn't 1965. Relationships with China, Vietnam, and Laos go to show that the US doesn't really care about either communist or quasi-communist countries. 

Realpolitik and corporate interests drive this behavior.  US is not alone in this regard. 

 

I am curious about the support provided to Russia, however.  I haven't really seen the evidence to support this in any significant way other than things around the end of the "cold war" and weapons disposal.  

 

20 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

Below is a link to a countries and their positions on Maduro. Note that Russia, China, Brazil, Turkey (a NATO member,) Bolivia and Nicaragua have the same position as Cuba. Of course it's easy for America to beat its chest about Cuba but is quite timid when it comes to applying the same criteria to more powerful countries.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47053701

 

 

Interesting collection of nations even excluding Russia and China.  As you probably know, Turkey has been drifting to authoritarianism for quite some time.  EU membership for Turkey now seems an incredibly distant dream for Turkey.  Daniel Ortega and his Sandinista party has been running Nicaragua since 2008 and dismantled all checks on presidential power. I am not sure how illiberal Bolivia and Brazil are at this time, but almost all of South American has an illiberal past.

 

 

 

[LHT28]

24 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Really our political leaders in conjunction with corporate lobbyists made that choice for us whether it be smart phones or the myriad of goods sold at WalMart. 

Just saying

 

 

Then stop shopping  at Walmart

buy local,  support your local businesses

 

We limit our  buying  for products made in China  & buy Canadian or US made whenever possible

YMMV

[SelectSys]

5 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Then stop shopping  at Walmart

buy local,  support your local businesses

 

We limit our  buying  for products made in China  & buy Canadian or US made whenever possible

YMMV

While it isn't practical in all cases, I also look at the sources of products I buy and increasingly select alternatives outside the major corporations.  Most recently, I switched internet providers to a smaller entity even though it was more expensive than what I was paying.

[cruising cockroach]

5 hours ago, SelectSys said:

, but almost all of South American has an illiberal past.

 

 

 

 

Yes, some of that past even engineered by the U.S.  Exhibit A: Pinochet's Chile

[SelectSys]

9 minutes ago, cruising cockroach said:

 

Yes, some of that past even engineered by the U.S.  Exhibit A: Pinochet's Chile

Absolutely true.  Real politick at its finest.  Some of it is also homegrown as well.

 

Even though it is unknowable, it would be interesting to see the difference if Allende hadn't been deposed and most likely murdered by the coup leaders. 

 

BTW - great place to visit for any number of reasons. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by SelectSys

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 3/10/2021 at 4:12 PM, sfaaa said:

Stop supporting and disassociate itself from brutal regimes like Maduro Venezuela and Iran would be a very nice gesture and well received in Washington. The Cuba issue isn't about tourism. It is about a communist government constantly picking fights and going out of its way to antagonize USA dating back to the 1960's.  It doesn't need to be this way.

"Antagonize the US?"  History is interesting when its truncated.  The US beef with Iran, rather Iran with the US, dates back to 1953 when Eisenhower order the overthrown of a democratically elected prime minister in Iran because he was going to sell oil to their neighbor the Soviet Union.  The US installed Shah Pahlavi as a brutal dictator and he used the Savak secret police to control Iran's citizens.  In Cuba the US supported brutal dictator Batista until he was overthrown by the Cuba people lead by Castro.  In South East Asia the US supported brutal puppet governments for decades starting in the 1950s...  

 

In many cases, as Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!"  The US also once invaded Canada...the "Caroline Incident" if interested.

[Charles4515]

7 hours ago, SelectSys said:

While it isn't practical in all cases, I also look at the sources of products I buy and increasingly select alternatives outside the major corporations.  Most recently, I switched internet providers to a smaller entity even though it was more expensive than what I was paying.

Most likely their equipment was made in China. 

[sparks1093]

My main concern with visiting any communist country is that what I see as a tourist is going to be carefully controlled and I will be shown only what the powers that be want me to see. And of course that pertains to more than visiting Cuba. 

[K32682]

11 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

The US also once invaded Canada...the "Caroline Incident" if interested.

 

In addition there was the War of 1812 and the Oregon boundary dispute. In the first America thought the Canadian territory was easy pickings because the British were occupied fighting in Europe. A combination of second tier British troops aided by indigenous warriors defeated America. 

 

In the Oregon boundary dispute of 1846, "54-50 or fight!" became "49 and never mind" after the arrival of British war ships off the western coast. 

 

After two humiliations, America shifted its expansionist tendencies southward and enjoyed much greater success. 

[Zach1213]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

My main concern with visiting any communist country is that what I see as a tourist is going to be carefully controlled and I will be shown only what the powers that be want me to see. And of course that pertains to more than visiting Cuba. 

 

That's not really true in my experience. I have been to China (and have lived in China) and, while there's parts that are off limits to foreigners, it's pretty rare. I have been all over the country and never been turned away from anyplace I wanted to go. Same with Laos, same with Vietnam, same with Cuba. Only place I have been (out of 125+ countries visited) where I was escorted every moment outside of the hotel and shown only "approved" things was North Korea, when I went for an aviation tour several years back. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Zach1213