vaccine required?

[K.T.B.]

On 4/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, d9704011 said:

All those people making their adult decisions and, supposedly, accepting the consequences aren’t particularly concerned about the potential impact of their decisions on the rest of society who may not share their risk tolerance.

 

I "stole" this from another member's comment on another board, but it's applicable here:

 

To quote Eldridge Cleaver:  "There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."

[stevenr597]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

I "stole" this from another member's comment on another board, but it's applicable here:

 

To quote Eldridge Cleaver:  "There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."

I am old enough to remember when if one wanted to travel to Europe, he or she had to first make a trip to their Family Physician to get the necessary immunizations.  

Have we become spoiled and complacent.  

[Ombud]

Read on Cruise Critic that 1 cruise line let's vaccinated cruisers off ship independently. Granted it's the Bahamas and I'm cruising elsewhere but it's encouraging me

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5996/?cache=reset&et_cid=3419140&et_rid=255153109&et_referrer=Boards - CC-US

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Ombud
Insert link

[caribill]

7 hours ago, Ombud said:

Read on Cruise Critic that 1 cruise line let's vaccinated cruisers off ship independently. Granted it's the Bahamas and I'm cruising elsewhere but it's encouraging me

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5996/?cache=reset&et_cid=3419140&et_rid=255153109&et_referrer=Boards - CC-US

 

 

Cruise starts in the Bahamas and the only ports are in the Bahamas. Passengers must get to the ship without being in a bubble and at the end of the cruise leave the ship without being in a bubble. Passengers must meet Covid-19 testing requirements to enter the Bahamas.

 

So not being in a bubble in the Bahamas ports is not different than being in the country in the first place.

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

you mean like us ?  8+ weeks past 2nd shot ( got in early because of her work ) , and still wearing masks ?

 

How you doin' ?

"A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others."

 

Science Brief: Background Rationale and Evidence for Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People (cdc.gov)

 

 

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

"A growing body of evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people are less likely to have asymptomatic infection and potentially less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others."

 

Science Brief: Background Rationale and Evidence for Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People (cdc.gov)

 

 

Less likely, but still possible.

 

Thus precautions remain in place for those vaccinated while traveling or in public.  Precaution only relaxed for small groups, fully vaccinated.

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Less likely, but still possible.

 

Thus precautions remain in place for those vaccinated while traveling or in public.  Precaution only relaxed for small groups, fully vaccinated.

 

So, will the CDC also start requiring us to start wearing tin foil hats in case of a lightning strike as well?  ( I know, it's hyperbole but it makes a point.)  🥴  Where does 'science' draw the line on when it can stop?   Didn't Fauci suggest goggles at one point?   (I know, he's not the CDC, but now he's the health advisor to the current president.)

[trottime]

We have a reservation on a Princess west coast cruise in August. I called Princess today and asked if, as expected, the cruise will sail, will it be limited to vaccinated passengers. The answer was "not determined yet." If non vaccinated cruisers are allowed on the ship with vaccinated passengers, what happens if, as is entirely possible, some of the non vaccinated get sick from the virus. Will the vaccinated cruisers be able to continue uninhibited and not be required to stay in their cabins or otherwise refrain from regular activities? This is critical. I'm sure we can remember to people last year that were on a cruise ship with people sick with he virus. It was awful. We are booked on a Celebrity cruise leaving from St Martiin in June that will only have vaccinated crew and passengers.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

So, will the CDC also start requiring us to start wearing tin foil hats in case of a lightning strike as well?  ( I know, it's hyperbole but it makes a point.)  🥴  Where does 'science' draw the line on when it can stop?   Didn't Fauci suggest goggles at one point?   (I know, he's not the CDC, but now he's the health advisor to the current president.)

These article explains it quite well.  Even gives a target number for when the recommendations will get relaxed

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/do-you-still-need-wear-mask-covid-19-vaccine-yes-heres-why-182318521.html

[caribill]

8 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

So, will the CDC also start requiring us to start wearing tin foil hats in case of a lightning strike as well?  ( I know, it's hyperbole but it makes a point.)  🥴  Where does 'science' draw the line on when it can stop?   Didn't Fauci suggest goggles at one point?   (I know, he's not the CDC, but now he's the health advisor to the current president.)

 

I do not remember who suggested it, but at the time it made good sense because the virus is spread mainly through the air and can enter the body through the eyes.

[dmwnc1959]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

I do not remember who suggested it, but at the time it made good sense because the virus is spread mainly through the air and can enter the body through the eyes.

The hospital I work at absolutely REQUIRES all employees to wear goggles, regardless of your position or if your job involves dealing with patients directly one-on-one. Since it’s also a federal facility, we are also required to wear masks at all times as well. 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, dmwnc1959 said:

The hospital I work at absolutely REQUIRES all employees to wear goggles, regardless of your position or if your job involves dealing with patients directly one-on-one. Since it’s also a federal facility, we are also required to wear masks at all times as well. 

Working in an environment such as a hospital makes sense.  Would you wear them to the grocery store too?

[Daniel A]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

I do not remember who suggested it, but at the time it made good sense because the virus is spread mainly through the air and can enter the body through the eyes.

Did it make enough sense for you to start wearing goggles out in public?

[D C]

11 hours ago, nocl said:

These article explains it quite well.  Even gives a target number for when the recommendations will get relaxed

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/do-you-still-need-wear-mask-covid-19-vaccine-yes-heres-why-182318521.html

These are not comforting words coming from an "expert" in the topic.

 

infectious disease expert Dr. Amesh A. Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security...

It’s not entirely clear when it will be considered OK for people who are fully vaccinated to stop wearing masks, but experts say a greater portion of the population will need to be vaccinated. "These recommendations will lift once we cross some threshold,” Adalja says.

 

Ultimately, Adalja says, mask recommendations will "probably fade away once significantly more of the population is vaccinated."

 

That is an awful lot of uncertainty. 

Threshold?  Sure, there might be one, but I don't know what it is...

Masks forever? Well, I don't think so...

[Coolmama_1]

On 4/4/2021 at 1:41 PM, stevenr597 said:

I am old enough to remember when if one wanted to travel to Europe, he or she had to first make a trip to their Family Physician to get the necessary immunizations.  

Have we become spoiled and complacent.  

I'm old enough to remember lining us up at school for the polio vaccine!

[Pizzasteve]

15 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

So, will the CDC also start requiring us to start wearing tin foil hats in case of a lightning strike as well?  ( I know, it's hyperbole but it makes a point.)  🥴  Where does 'science' draw the line on when it can stop?   Didn't Fauci suggest goggles at one point?   (I know, he's not the CDC, but now he's the health advisor to the current president.)

You dont make a point.  The disease is not under control as varients continue to cause surges to case numbers that are still horribly high relative to countries that followed proper protocols, tested, traced and masked properly. We know families and health care workers who are mentally wrecked by seeing preventable death after death, and people with very serious, possibly permanent damage to their brains and lungs.

 

I wish you cared more about public health and educated youself about the uncertainties of historic pandemics.  Wanting specific dates doesnt matter as disease doesnt follow a schedule and blaming the messenger (CDC) is just frustration because this is not fully under our control.  Blame the partying people keeping the disease circulating.

 

I understand wanting to take a vacation, but TBH the CDC has been too lax with allowing travel and disease spread, if anything IMHO.  I wish you well, but the CDC is best when it reacts to data, unlike politicians who just want to do what is popular, as opposed to right. Older vaccinated people need to let the younger people and those around the world to get vaccinated before travel for fun is safe.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[Daniel A]

35 minutes ago, D C said:

These are not comforting words coming from an "expert" in the topic.

 

infectious disease expert Dr. Amesh A. Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security...

It’s not entirely clear when it will be considered OK for people who are fully vaccinated to stop wearing masks, but experts say a greater portion of the population will need to be vaccinated. "These recommendations will lift once we cross some threshold,” Adalja says.

 

Ultimately, Adalja says, mask recommendations will "probably fade away once significantly more of the population is vaccinated."

 

That is an awful lot of uncertainty. 

Threshold?  Sure, there might be one, but I don't know what it is...

Masks forever? Well, I don't think so...

Also from the same article, "Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN in early March that the U.S. shouldn't ease COVID-19 restrictions until the number of new coronavirus cases falls below 10,000 daily, and "maybe even considerably less than that." 

 

That also sounds pretty vague to me.  

[tcdcruiser]

IMHO

 

Sometime this summer or fall, all Americans who wanted a vaccination will become fully immunized.  The moment will be easily seen when we begin hearing news stories about endless vaccine supply and same day appointment availability.

 

Then.....those of us fully vaccinated (guess 65% to 75% of Americans) will lose our willingness to "mask up" to protect those not vaccinated.  This attitude will accelerate as we hear more about booster shots (already in trial) to address the variants.  The overwhelming weight of public opinion alone from those of us vaccinated will cause mask and distance rules to be relaxed or eliminated.

 

The virus will then run it course with those 25% +/- of Americans not vaccinated.  Then we will reach herd immunity the hard way.

 

In regard to proof of vaccination.  We show a US Passport or State Driver's License to fly or cruise today.  We show proof of vaccination for our children to attend school.  We wear seatbelts when we drive.    We build our homes to meet local zoning laws.   We file our taxes by April 15th.  Our bags are x-rayed before we enter a sports event.  

 

Showing proof of vaccination for a 7 days Caribbean cruise is now the "Don't Tread on Me" line in the sand? 

 

Here's a brief read about George Washington and John Adams dealing with the 1778-1785 Smallpox Pandemic.  Given their sacrifices, I think they would find our actions hard to understand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1775–1782_North_American_smallpox_epidemic

 

[D C]

5 minutes ago, tcdcruiser said:

IMHO

 

Sometime this summer or fall, all Americans who wanted a vaccination will become fully immunized.  The moment will be easily seen when we begin hearing news stories about endless vaccine supply and same day appointment availability.

 

Then.....those of us fully vaccinated (guess 65% to 75% of Americans) will lose our willingness to "mask up" to protect those not vaccinated.  This attitude will accelerate as we hear more about booster shots (already in trial) to address the variants.  The overwhelming weight of public opinion alone from those of us vaccinated will cause mask and distance rules to be relaxed or eliminated.

 

The virus will then run it course with those 25% +/- of Americans not vaccinated.  Then we will reach herd immunity the hard way.

 

In regard to proof of vaccination.  We show a US Passport or State Driver's License to fly or cruise today.  We show proof of vaccination for our children to attend school.  We wear seatbelts when we drive.    We build our homes to meet local zoning laws.   We file our taxes by April 15th.  Our bags are x-rayed before we enter a sports event.  

 

Showing proof of vaccination for a 7 days Caribbean cruise is now the "Don't Tread on Me" line in the sand? 

 

Here's a brief read about George Washington and John Adams dealing with the 1778-1785 Smallpox Pandemic.  Given their sacrifices, I think they would find our actions hard to understand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1775–1782_North_American_smallpox_epidemic

 

EXACTLY! Well said!

Once we hit that point where anyone who wants a vaccine can have one at will, normalcy should return.  Not a "new" normal. Regular old normal. 

[voljeep]

11 minutes ago, tcdcruiser said:

 We file our taxes by April 15th.

currently May 17th deadline for individual Federal Tax Returns

Edited April 6, 2021 by voljeep

[restasured]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Did it make enough sense for you to start wearing goggles out in public?

I don't but still see many wearing face shields.  Many people take this virus serious, others not so much.

[voljeep]

2 minutes ago, restasured said:

I don't but still see many wearing face shields.  Many people take this virus serious, others not so much.

face shields in just regular public settings like grocery stores, Target, post office ?

 

have seen only a couple in those situations since this all started

[Daniel A]

5 minutes ago, restasured said:

I don't but still see many wearing face shields.  Many people take this virus serious, others not so much.

Last week I saw a man driving by himself in a convertible with the top down at about 50 MPH wearing a mask.  Now, that is taking it seriously.  🤣

[restasured]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Also from the same article, "Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN in early March that the U.S. shouldn't ease COVID-19 restrictions until the number of new coronavirus cases falls below 10,000 daily, and "maybe even considerably less than that." 

 

That also sounds pretty vague to me.  

As has been shown time and time again, the only thing about this virus is there is nothing definite, except it is deadly.  What the CDC and other scientists do is react to information as is comes in.  They can and do give recommendations on what is known and what is likely, but they nor anyone else can give any failsafe finite recommendations.  What citizens can do it follow the recommendations and do their part in helping eliminate or at least control the virus.  Sitting back and whining and complaining does no one any good.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, D C said:

These are not comforting words coming from an "expert" in the topic.

 

infectious disease expert Dr. Amesh A. Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security...

It’s not entirely clear when it will be considered OK for people who are fully vaccinated to stop wearing masks, but experts say a greater portion of the population will need to be vaccinated. "These recommendations will lift once we cross some threshold,” Adalja says.

 

Ultimately, Adalja says, mask recommendations will "probably fade away once significantly more of the population is vaccinated."

 

That is an awful lot of uncertainty. 

Threshold?  Sure, there might be one, but I don't know what it is...

Masks forever? Well, I don't think so...

Did you read further down in the link?

 

Later on it says that it needs to be below 10,000 in the US.